Good luck with that fancy email app that CCs a message to some address in China every time you send a mail.
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iOS 17 to Support App Sideloading to Comply With European Regulations
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So, based on this logic, Apple should also build a back door into iOS so that they can "track down" terrorists because the government should have access to anyone's device at the same control as you want.
What's next? You want root control of the entire chipset next? Oh, should Apple not protect their trade secrets so YOU could build YOUR own smartphone? Is that how much CONTROL YOU want?
We don't allow TikTok installed in our MDM because it's not work related, not because TikTok is inherently. TikTok, like any social media site, is a time waster. And we do not allow company devices to waste company time.
How much control do you want? Do you want to overclock the iPhone? Do you want to use the web browser to also be the same app to have access to the filing system? Windows XP did that and it worked, fantastically.
It's the same argument Woz and Steve had, and Steve always won. Microsoft does not allow root access to Windows much anymore, and MacOS has never allowed root. Root is allowed by an Administrator account to login as root as a Super User (SU) much like its BSD 7 father.
How much control does the user actually need? Do you really need a second App Store to download TikTok? Are you worried about how that Third Party App Store will use your data? Or try to protect it? Apple is a 3 trillion dollar company, it can afford to lock its entire infrastructure down. The Epic App Store will just have Fortnite. You want multiple App Stores to manage multiple Apps? Did we not learn from cord cutting causing the rise of 40 different streaming services all charging the same price eclipsing the original cost of cable?
Did we not learn that SOMEONE is taking a 15%-20% cut of the App's revenue to fund the maintenance and admin of the App Store REGARDLESS of whose App Store it is?
What cut does the Amazon or Samsung Galaxy stores take from devs?
And is it worth it to a dev to supply multiple stores when over 85% of all downloads come from the default App Store (Google Play/Apple App Stores)? And they're still gonna pay a percent of their revenue to the owner of that App Store. Maybe not at first, that's called a Bait and Switch sales tactic. "Dollar Gets You Started!" does not mean "Dollar Gets You Delivered!"
So, you'll get your third party app stores, but then wait a year and those third party app stores will start charging a commission, either based on net rev or based off a percentage of each sale.
But yeah, compromise the entire ecosystem so you can download TikTok SOMEWHERE ELSE.
Yes, the app store has both spam apps and dubious subscription apps, no filter system is perfect. I don't believe either of the people you have responded to claim the app store was absolutely free of either.go look at my post when someone else said the exact same thing
in fact ill give u the same link!
Apple’s tightly controlled App Store is teeming with scams
Apple claims its App Store is carefully curated so that only the best apps get through. The truth is, the App Store is littered with scams and "fleeceware," which uses fake user ratings to trick customers into paying for something they don't want.www.washingtonpost.com
What does that have to do with the statement/position "I trust Apple more than other companies"? They don't seem to preclude each other at all.
Shouldn't the comparison be between the prevalence and maliciousness of such occurrences within Apple App Store and hypothetical 3rd party side-loading sources?
While some won't use it (like I hate streaming would rather run a game natively) it is an option and an option a lot of people on Xbox take, attaching a Backbone One to their phone and playing their Game Pass library on their phone wherever they go.
Okay I'm gonna have to be honest...Safari blows. It's so behind the competition that Orion Browser is what Safari is supposed to be. A lot of websites just don't work on Safari, and plugin support is nonexistent.
Do you honestly think most people would be using Safari if they weren't forced to?
Simple: Apple is out of touch with the game industry. They don't support anything, don't listen to game developers at all, look down on game developers (despite the game industry being bigger than movies now), Tim Cook on court record said he doesn't know who Valve is or what Steam is (DESPITE INVITING THEM AS GUEST SPEAKERS DURING WWDC 2016'S KEYNOTE), divested OpenGL and refused to adopt Vulkan, I can go on.
Fun fact: There was a DOS emulator on the App Store at one point called iDOS (essentially DOSBox but optimized for a touch screen and the A series chips.) But once Apple realized it was a game emulator they pulled it from the App Store.
Apple hits another low note with the App Store
Apple should reconsider its ban on the iDOS app, a fun nod to the past.www.macworld.com
This is why we need sideloading and alternative app stores. I would've killed for DOSBox on my iPhone and iPad.
- So, how are websites not working on Safari a Safari issue? That's a "Windows has majority OS market share, so those browsers are preferred". I only use Edge on my Mac because my corporate environment requires Edge to the browser name when I login to their apps. They don't care whether it is Edge for the Mac or Windows. I can actually make Safari pretend to be Edge and it works suddenly. They're not checking for anything more than the browser type flag.
- And Safari doesn't blow, I have no issues for a decade now.
- Apple is out of touch with the game industry....I wonder why? Maybe they're not a gaming company?
- I had iDOS, it was ok. I totally hope one day nobody cares, but Apple is just avoiding unnecessary lawsuits.
- Sideloading, fine, but don't allow it access to anything unless signed by someone Apple approves of, like Verisign.
- Plugins are overrated. That's an opinion, not a fact.
Apple should deny parts of the API to apps that aren't in the app store. Want notifications API access? Then pay your 30% or too bad. No developer should make $ off the APIs that Apple has spent billions to make over all this time without paying their fair share.
Just give sideloaded apps the most barebones API access and sandbox them so the experience isn't worth it. Problem solved.
Just give sideloaded apps the most barebones API access and sandbox them so the experience isn't worth it. Problem solved.
Yeah, they totally should.
Pull out of the world's largest single market covering 300m people and with a combined GDP of 1/6th of the world's economy (third place behind the US and China).
That'd show 'em!
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Safari lacks any compatibility modes and a lot of websites design just for Chromium
Oh god here's this argument again.
Microsoft isn't a gaming company either, and they still support games, which is why Windows is king for PC gaming, to the point even Playstation can't ignore PC anymore. Hell, they're buying Activision/Blizzard/King for 68 billion dollars.
Sony isn't a gaming company either, and yet they still make and support games with the Playstation, which is one of their biggest departments. Hell Playstation saved Sony from bankruptcy during a period where their music and TV and Bluray divisions were in a slump.
Meta isn't a gaming company either, they're primarily virtual reality hardware and social media services, and yet they support games, which as a result the Quest 2 is the most dominant VR platform, to the point many VR developers ignore PC and just develop for Quest.
If Apple gave even a tiny bit of caring about the game industry (and I'm not talking about "mobile gaming" I'm talking proper AAA releases) then Mac gaming wouldn't be a meme and could actually be a threat to Microsoft's monopoly on PC gaming.
One other argument: Apple isn't a movie or TV producer, they're primarily tech for lifestyle. And yet they still make movies and TV shows. Now imagine if Apple had a gaming division. Apple entering the AAA game industry would be a massive shakeup. It's why there was a lot of excitement over the idea of Apple buying EA despite that rumor not being true.
Friendly reminder Steve Jobs and Phil Schiller demo'd a Playstation emulator during Macworld 1999
No. Any APK should be allowed.
Just copy what's done with the Mac where you're warned about unsigned apps and have to go through extra steps to install them. It's not rocket science.
Sorry can't hear you over the Youtube videos I'm watching on FireFox since I don't have ads thanks to UBlock Origin
You either trust the app you're using or you don't.
Apple's guidelines don't protect you from collecting data.
Apps can collect tons of data in-app - and it's perfectly OK with Apple and their guidelines:
Analysis Suggests Instagram Tracks User Web Activity Through In-App Browser
A new analysis of the Instagram app has suggested that every time a user clicks a link within the app, Instagram is capable of monitoring all of...
www.macrumors.com
It could.
It could also hugely improve them, since you'd be able to do a chargeback on your credit card - without Apple locking down most of your digital life and preventing you from installing all of your purchased apps, because failed to pay them. Your Apple ID is literally a single point of failure in accessing all your purchased Apps - and lots of your data along with it.
That's got nothing do with Apple's monopoly on the distribution of iOS apps.
Access to APIs and sandboxes is either protected - or it's not.
And developer certificates are out there and abused on a regular basis.
Apple has to comply with all sorts of things to operate and sell their products in China for example so I feel it’s reasonable they have to comply with the EU regulations if they also want that market.
The worst thing about Apple for me has always been their very specific locking down of things all in the name of security/privacy when it’s often just another cynical overbearing ecosystem move. If people like it that way, fine but let people choose how to use their purchase.
I can only do half as much on my iPad as I can on my Surface Pro despite it having superior hardware because they want to purposefully keep it less capable than a Mac. Then they also go and make things exclusive to iOS that aren’t on iPadOS for no valid reason.
I would love to finally get a decent browser. I find so many sites glitch with Safari, often in silly ways like not being able to scroll.
The worst thing about Apple for me has always been their very specific locking down of things all in the name of security/privacy when it’s often just another cynical overbearing ecosystem move. If people like it that way, fine but let people choose how to use their purchase.
I can only do half as much on my iPad as I can on my Surface Pro despite it having superior hardware because they want to purposefully keep it less capable than a Mac. Then they also go and make things exclusive to iOS that aren’t on iPadOS for no valid reason.
I would love to finally get a decent browser. I find so many sites glitch with Safari, often in silly ways like not being able to scroll.
The most laughable part about all of this is how Apple previously claimed that third-party apps would disrupt platform security or whatever.
If the iOS security model is so weak that it requires manual review of every submitted app, then users probably should not trust App Store apps either.
Perhaps with this move, Apple will finally enforce sandboxing and permissions properly on all apps, which would be a win for everyone.
If the iOS security model is so weak that it requires manual review of every submitted app, then users probably should not trust App Store apps either.
Perhaps with this move, Apple will finally enforce sandboxing and permissions properly on all apps, which would be a win for everyone.
A jailbreak runs arbitrary code on an iOS device. When you allow side loading, you allow an extra vector for running arbitrary code on an iOS device...
No.
Jailbreak runs arbitrary code with root privileges, which allows to modify iOS' behavior, settings, etc.
If side loading of third-party apps is implemented correctly, such apps would be sandboxed or virtualized in some way, and their access to other parts of the system will be restricted.
Well at least the console manufacturers are up front about using the Razor/Razor Blades model and usually sell the hardware at cost or for a loss.
Apple run the Razor Blade model while still making a very healthy margin on the razor itself.
Pretty sure that the likes of Sony and Microsoft meet the EU's "gatekeeper" definition under their new digital competition laws. And no doubt there's plenty to look at there. Not least Sony's abuse of dominant market position with game exclusivity deals despite the hypocritical complaints over the Microsoft/Activision deal.
Is the EU going to pay for the inevitable huge spike in customer support calls due to janky, f'd up software that ends up on people's phones as a result?
If the OS is implemented correctly, jailbreaking would also not be possible. But here we are... you can't have your argument be "if there's no flaws in the code, there's no malware". We live in an imperfect world. There are always exploitable flaws. Adding more doors gives more options to pick a lock.
Would you say that the enterprise Mac admins who filled in this survey are computer illiterate? Reading their many complaints I’m pretty sure they’re not gaslit by Apple either.
Apple in the Enterprise: A 2023 report card
In 2021, device-management startup Kandji approached Six Colors to commission a new entry in our Report Card series focusing on how Apple’s doing in large organizations, including businesses, educa…
sixcolors.com
From the article:
Damien Barrett wrote: “Our Security team already sees iOS as more secure. Opening up this walled garden to a 3rd Party App Store would weaken that view. At this time, I cannot see our Security team allowing unvetted 3rd party apps to be installed on our many thousands of managed iPhones.”
Kale Kingdon wrote: “Strongly against. This move is often framed by its advocates as increasing choice for users. However, it actually restricts their safety. Should Apple be forced into accepting 3rd party app stores, we would block or disable such functionality as it would be a vector for malicious attack. However, should apps required for the business migrate out of the App Store, and into an undesired method of distribution, IT departments may have little effective choice in the matter – which is why we also hope this possibility will not come to pass.”
James Corcoran wrote: “We trust Apple’s ecosystem and have no interest in third party App stores. You only need to look at Android to see what a security disaster the ecosystem is.”
Adam Tomczynski wrote: “Will third-party app stores require notarization and other Apple security models? If yes, then I do not see the need for 3rd party stores. If no, then you will be potentially opening up devices to exploits, malware, etc. Very bad decision in my opinion.”
Rich Thomas wrote: “Probably not something we would consider for the majority of users. Too risky.”
Allowing side loading is a mistake.
Big companies will start distributing their software outside the App Store to make more money and the user experience will suffer. Here's what is gonna happen:
1) Users won't be able to manage all their subscriptions in one place (you'll have to manually keep track of side loaded apps subscriptions separately).
2) Users won't be able to install every app from just the App Store anymore. Instead they will have to find stuff on Google, which will be full of sponsored links that will potentially install garbage and malware on their phone instead of the software they are looking for.
3) Users will have to put up with several competing payment processing systems, some of which probably won't even accept Apple Pay but will require the user to give away their credit card info to access.
And I'm sure there's more that I haven't yet thought about.
I hate the EU for these stupid regulations. I suspect big corporations are actually behind this: somebody must be getting paid by Google, Epic, Microsoft, Adobe etc... to make this happen.
People shouldn't be cheering for side loading to happen: you are cheering for the fact that the EU is taking away power from Apple and redistributing it across multiple big companies (Google, Epic, Microsoft, Adobe...). Are you sure that giving more money to Google instead of Apple is a good idea? And on top of this, how can you be happy about having to deal with multiple payment processing systems just to use your favorite apps and services?
People, this is DUMB. Wake up.
Big companies will start distributing their software outside the App Store to make more money and the user experience will suffer. Here's what is gonna happen:
1) Users won't be able to manage all their subscriptions in one place (you'll have to manually keep track of side loaded apps subscriptions separately).
2) Users won't be able to install every app from just the App Store anymore. Instead they will have to find stuff on Google, which will be full of sponsored links that will potentially install garbage and malware on their phone instead of the software they are looking for.
3) Users will have to put up with several competing payment processing systems, some of which probably won't even accept Apple Pay but will require the user to give away their credit card info to access.
And I'm sure there's more that I haven't yet thought about.
I hate the EU for these stupid regulations. I suspect big corporations are actually behind this: somebody must be getting paid by Google, Epic, Microsoft, Adobe etc... to make this happen.
People shouldn't be cheering for side loading to happen: you are cheering for the fact that the EU is taking away power from Apple and redistributing it across multiple big companies (Google, Epic, Microsoft, Adobe...). Are you sure that giving more money to Google instead of Apple is a good idea? And on top of this, how can you be happy about having to deal with multiple payment processing systems just to use your favorite apps and services?
People, this is DUMB. Wake up.
Would you say that the enterprise Mac admins who filled in this survey are computer illiterate? Reading their many complaints I’m pretty sure they’re not gaslit by Apple either.
Apple in the Enterprise: A 2023 report card
In 2021, device-management startup Kandji approached Six Colors to commission a new entry in our Report Card series focusing on how Apple’s doing in large organizations, including businesses, educa…
That's enterprise, not average end user at home. Of course enterprise IT is not gonna want third party app stores BECAUSE THEY USE THEIR OWN APP STORES. Did you forget about the Apple Enterprise Program allowing for enteprise to have their own App Store with their own software specially designed for iOS not available on the iOS App Store?
A lot of enterprise IT has a list of approved software of what can and cannot be installed on work computers, because surprise, THEY'RE WORK COMPUTERS OWNED BY THE COMPANY. That's the business' choice of what can be ran or not
So with sideloading it should be up to the end user what they should be able to install or not, not Apple's.
ONCE AGAIN I AM TIRED OF REPEATING THIS: MOST IF ANY WILL NOT LEAVE THE APP STORE ONCE THIRD PARTY APP STORES AND SIDELOADING GO LIVE SINCE THEY ALREADY HAVE AN ESTABLISHED USERBASE AND LEAVING THE APP STORE WOULD BE CORPORATE SUICIDE. You don't see developers leaving the Google Play Store despite Android allowing app installation outside of the app store.
The sheer existence of Android completely debunks your fearmongering. Even then, if developers leave the App Store, that is their choice, and if better alternatives show up that's Apple's fault for not offering a good enough service to convince developers and users to stay, so they can either fix the App Store to be a service developers and users want to use, or get left behind and let it languish like the Mac App Store.
Almost all of your arguments centered around “well it’s already happening, so it’s fine”. Not even going to continue this with you if you’re not going to think logically.You either trust the app you're using or you don't.
Apple's guidelines don't protect you from collecting data.
Apps can collect tons of data in-app - and it's perfectly OK with Apple and their guidelines:
Analysis Suggests Instagram Tracks User Web Activity Through In-App Browser
A new analysis of the Instagram app has suggested that every time a user clicks a link within the app, Instagram is capable of monitoring all of...
It could.
It could also hugely improve them, since you'd be able to do a chargeback on your credit card - without Apple locking down most of your digital life and preventing you from installing all of your purchased apps, because failed to pay them. Your Apple ID is literally a single point of failure in accessing all your purchased Apps - and lots of your data along with it.
That's got nothing do with Apple's monopoly on the distribution of iOS apps.
Access to APIs and sandboxes is either protected - or it's not.
And developer certificates are out there and abused on a regular basis.
This argument was used a couple of times here already, but come on. 'Side-loading' is possible on macOS, Windows and Android. Yet most of the apps, especially popular ones, are still available on Mac App Store, Microsoft Store and Google Play. And they're not going away anywhere; just don't forget to pay 30% more for your subscription because of Apple's cut (or Google's cut, or Microsoft's cut).
Or, you know, just don't subscribe to **** that you can easily live without, and buy something nice for your partner instead?
And yes, the company that I buy the item from should get as close to 100% of my money as possible. Apple is trying to parasite on anything that happens on an iPhone, but it's just a generic portable computer with a web browser, and not even a good one for the price; they don't deserve a single penny of what's going on outside of Apple Store / App Store.
The point is a lot of very computer literate people think it’s a security problem and a bad idea.
If your choice is between a locked down US iPad or an open EU iPad, where do you think the money is going to go to? If Apple opens up, it may as well be everywhere otherwise it is just going to encourage grey imports outside of the EU.