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iOS 17 to Support App Sideloading to Comply With European Regulations

magicvash said:
This is great right up until companies refuse to offer App Store version of their software and force users to sideload. I can see Meta doing this and bringing along spyware and user tracking that they were forced to eliminate due to apple’s tracking bans
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Exactly! This is the only issue! I couldn't care less if side-loading is a thing in iOS because I can opt to not use it.
The problem is this one—companies pulling their apps from the app store!

So people cry because Apple holds the cards and Apple was forcing their will into the people. Now, will be the companies that will force people into side-loading. You want Facebook? Better side-load.

The consumer will not have a say.
 
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magicvash said:
This is great right up until companies refuse to offer App Store version of their software and force users to sideload. I can see Meta doing this and bringing along spyware and user tracking that they were forced to eliminate due to apple’s tracking bans
Click to expand...
While possible, this hasn't happened on Android so far. And the spying & tracking is limited to what the OS allows technically, which means limited to the respective app. It's basically the same level as in a web browser without ad blocker.
 
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this is not needed but given the crapshoot that the App Store has become - buy any keywords against your app! Monetise casinos for children! etc etc, I don't think it can't be much worse than now. Perhaps it will even allow for new app stores that actually curate what they make available to customers.
Presumably, the "safety" bit can still be more or less ensured via sandboxing, the forbidding of using private APIs (I guess phones could do that themselves upon download of the app...) and some form of visual confirmation that an app has been notarised / checked on the app store and that the version the consumer is planning to use is the latest one.
I am pretty sure that customers would have the ability to turn off side loading for their device / iCloud account / Family / Enterprise (via MDM... although MDM already allows enterprise customers to side load their own apps). Interesting times, but I think Apple kind of did it to themselves by having such an unconvincing app store.
 
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The problem for Apple is how valuable iOS owners are compared to Android owners and how iOS owners are going to be less security focused as they've never had to be. People on iOS just assume they are fairly ok, and rightly so. Even if the apps are sandboxed there are going to hidden API's that Apple won't be able to stop software using that can create exploits etc.

Its not really about self propagating viruses and stuff anymore, more about how easy it will be to use social engineering (tricking people) in to exploits and there will be no oversight and no ability to shut that app down using the keys apple have.

This along with a phone being a primary personal device for safety (it is a phone after all) which is completely unlike a PC or games console. The reliability aspect of a phone is a huge deal and you don't really want to jeopardise that.

The EU claim Apple can make side loading ok without any bs and point to Android etc. But in my understanding, Android is an inherently unsafe OS in the same way Windows is. And yes it's much better than it was, (took them a decade or so, but whatever...) but I wouldn't bet on it's security aspects unless you are very stringent anyway. And that's not what Apple wants for its customers.

I think the long term bet for Apple is that with millions of apps, no major exploits and billions of customers used to easily adding and removing apps from their store, customers are going to continue to do that. There will be an automatic distrust any dev who isn't a really big name / company to allow for side loading. Also, I feel that Apple may say that you have to either do a one off, side-load for everyone security change or per app (which will be even more tedious). And software dev's will think its not worth the 30% gain trying to implement this or the loss of customers who don't trust doing it.

Even though I'd love an emulator etc.. I don't think I'm going to change security settings for one. I've been there before and I don't think it's worth technically jail breaking my primary life device for some app. That's what my PC is for.
 
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Abazigal said:
My theories from an earlier thread:

1) Apple will allow sideloading but not third party app stores
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A third-party app store can be implemented as a sideloaded third-party app. The "install" link for an app would just be a regular "download that sideloading app" link, as if you'd sideload the app from the web. This won't allow automatic updates (just notifications about updates), but otherwise it wouldn't be that much different from Apple's app store.
 
twintin said:
Only if all apps are required to exist in AppStore as well. Otherwise it won't be any choice and your are forced to sideload apps you need.
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Apple can't force any developers to make apps available only at their App Store, that's the whole point. Removing Apple from any decisions for the developers and end-users, it will be the business and end-users who have the freedom to choose.

Apple is not entitled to removing that decision for their users including both companies and end-users just because they own the platform. I own my device, I want to choose where I get my software; just as developers can choose where they sell their software and for how much.

We all benefit from this, just as we've all benefited from macOS with this same freedom where we can buy, rent (SetApp for an example), sell software anywhere we want on macOS as well as the same freedom on Windows and Linux.
 
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robbietop said:
This is just dumb. This is why corporate IT abandoned Android.
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You’re assuming that Apple would not be aware of setting permissions to harden iOS or IPadOS installation. Very early on corporate IT or government IT had procedures they followed. I doubt Apple would just allow any method to be used for side loading if it didn’t involve gatekeeper along with runtime protection to prevent unsigned software from execution.

App security overview

Apple provides layers of protection to help ensure that apps are free of known malware and haven’t been tampered with.
support.apple.com

Because of this, Apple provides layers of protection to help ensure that apps are free of known malware and haven’t been tampered with. Additional protections enforce that access from apps to user data is carefully mediated. These security controls provide a stable, secure platform for apps, enabling thousands of developers to deliver hundreds of thousands of apps for iOS, iPadOS, and macOS—all without impacting system integrity. And users can access these apps on their Apple devices without undue fear of viruses, malware, or unauthorized attacks.

On iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch, all apps are obtained from the App Store—and all apps are sandboxed—to provide the tightest controls.
 
bastoshaq said:
The problem is this one—companies pulling their apps from the app store!

So people cry because Apple holds the cards and Apple was forcing their will into the people. Now, will be the companies that will force people into side-loading. You want Facebook? Better side-load.
Click to expand...
No problem. Just use other apps then.
You aren’t forced to use Facebook or the Facebook app.
 
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Spaceboi Scaphandre said:
As Android has proven that's not the case. Apps that left the Google Play Store see a lot less traffic than apps that are on the Google Play Store. Case in point: Fortnite. Very few downloaded the Fortnite APK from Epic's website which is why Epic had to reluctantly get Play Store approval

So any app that pulls out of the App Store once sideloading goes live would be committing corporate suicide.
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Android is changing too. Epic sued Google since it was “too difficult” to side load on Android.
 
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A few random thoughts on this:
  • The overwhelming majority of users will continue to use the App Store. Developers who try to abandon the app store in favor of sideloading will find that their user base collapses. This is exactly what happened when Epic tried to go sideload-only on Android, only to come crawling back to the Play Store when their sales plummeted. It’s unlikely that major developers will abandon the app store and force sideloading specifically because of this.
  • iOS and iPadOS are inherently designed around restrictive app permissions and sandboxing. Apps need explicit user permission to go outside of the sandbox to use things like the camera, microphone, GPS, access files, etc. There’s no reason to believe that apps sideloaded onto iOS wouldn’t require the same restrictions in order to run. Any spying/tracking or malware issues would be restricted to that sandbox and users would receive the same prompts to access outside systems and see the same usage indicators if an app is recording something.
 
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AppliedMicro said:
No problem. Just use other apps then.
You aren’t forced to use Facebook or the Facebook app.
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You aren’t forced to use apps that require side loading. So leaving iOS alone is the same argument. Oh right, it’s the “my way is the best way who cares what you want” mindset these days.
 
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The main question is, is Apple going to be stubborn to make two separate iOS SKUs and sell iOS with sideload capability in EU only and the rest of the world will stick with the same restrictive iOS SKU.

US is working on the same regulations, so hopefully, that will pass soon and Apple will eventually give up on that fight.
 
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klasma said:
A third-party app store can be implemented as a sideloaded third-party app. The "install" link for an app would just be a regular "download that sideloading app" link, as if you'd sideload the app from the web. This won't allow automatic updates (just notifications about updates), but otherwise it wouldn't be that much different from Apple's app store.
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You do have a point there. I am not sure if iOS (or Apple) will be able to make a distinction between an app and an App Store app. What I think might happen is that the software being used to sideload apps will also be what allows Apple to monitor what apps are being installed this way and perhaps blocked as needed. I won't pretend to understand how Apple might accomplish such a task, but I assume preventing other App Store apps from being installed on iOS would be one of Apple's top priorities.
 
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Stella said:
That's their choice. Probably a bad choice since they'll lose revenue for their iOS app.

There's Mac OS software that isn't available on the Mac App Store, so ?? 🤷
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You do realise that they lose revenue by offering an App Store app? Most people will install the app they need regardless of whether they are on the store or not. But if the app comes from the store apple eats a big chunk of the developer revenue with excuse like promotion or server etc. well we shall see if developers will deem these costs reasonable or not.
 
cableguy84 said:
We already have a ton of apps and settings on our phones that do everything we need. I don’t need or want an additional layer of software for useless junk on my phone
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Don't put "we" in your statement, you do not speak for me nor anybody else in this world.

I want access to Microsoft's xcloud service in an app with direct native access to the controllers and I want access to GamePass app store as well. Apple refuses it and forces MS to bypass the app store by using the web browser with substandard streaming experience.
 
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So, would sideloading mean apps could offer extra functionality currently 'not allowed' by Apple? Such as Facebook Messenger chat heads?

Or would they effectively be the same apps just on downloaded from somewhere different?
 
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