iOS 7 and Maps still sucks

[edddeduck]

Just upgraded to iOS 7 and Maps still sucks. There are errors in road names. There are stores shown that closed 7-8 years ago. Stores that do exist are shown a block away from their actual location. In short it is virtually unusable, and it looks wholly amateurish compared to Google's maps. If Apple's maps is meant to be a fallback if Google ever pulled the plug on their map app, then Apple's is failing miserably. If Apple's maps was meant to replace Google's, then Apple's efforts are laughable.

I know what you're thinking: The OP lives in a small town in Scotland, and the focus should be the US first and then metropolitan areas outside the US. Perhaps, but part of Apple's tax minimization scheme is that Apple US uses Apple Ireland to pay for R&D. It seems odd to me that Apple Ireland would be more concerned about the US than Europe. Moreover, I pay more for my iProducts than people in the US do, as I suspect many people in Europe do. Apple has a wad of cash - why is it not spending it on providing services outside the US? Google certainly is....

If Apple can't get better data, then perhaps they had better start collaborating with Google to improve the experience of their customers.

It was pretty good from the very start actually. At least the map data was accurate.

Did you really use Google Maps for the first few years? Edinburgh was shocking with massive errors all over and not just the minor roads, my parents village DIDN'T EVEN EXIST!

I have noticed the improvements with Apple's Maps on a monthly basis (no OS update needed). Sure it's not as good as Googles in some respects but Google has over a decades head start which counts for a lot when aggregating data.

Given how it is progressing I don't have any major concerns, give it another 18 months and it will be even closer to Google but things take time.

I think you are expecting a bit much to expect the maps in some small location in Scotland to be accurate immediately compared to a system that Google have spent 10/15 YEARS improving.

Data for Map apps is aggregated and updated from many sources and some of those sources are wrong/out of date for Apple and that takes time to fix especially considering the millions of reports (and fact checking) that needs to be done for each one.

Edwin

 

[cynics]

Just out of curiosity, how did people find you before Apple maps were released?????

Prior Apple maps people were using other services with the correct address.

This is my issue with Apple maps. I just can't trust it as much as I'd like too. I always end up double checking with other mapping software to verify if it's correct or not regardless if it is correct prior to driving somewhere.

There have been plenty of times I'm running Apple and Google maps at the same time.

 

[VulchR]

Did you really use Google Maps for the first few years? Edinburgh was shocking with massive errors all over and not just the minor roads, my parents village DIDN'T EVEN EXIST!

I have noticed the improvements with Apple's Maps on a monthly basis (no OS update needed). Sure it's not as good as Googles in some respects but Google has over a decades head start which counts for a lot when aggregating data.

Given how it is progressing I don't have any major concerns, give it another 18 months and it will be even closer to Google but things take time.

I think you are expecting a bit much to expect the maps in some small location in Scotland to be accurate immediately compared to a system that Google have spent 10/15 YEARS improving.

Data for Map apps is aggregated and updated from many sources and some of those sources are wrong/out of date for Apple and that takes time to fix especially considering the millions of reports (and fact checking) that needs to be done for each one.

Edwin

In the poll for this thread, more people outside the US thought Apple's maps were poor than excellent. The reverse pattern is true in the US. My point is that in spite of the fact that Apple has a 'research center' in Ireland, which allows it to avoid corporate tax, the bulk of their money seems to be aimed at providing services to the US. Yet, here in Europe we pay as much – or more – for our iDevices as those in the US.

Moreover, I see very little evidence whatsoever that Apple is correcting wildly inaccurate POI's in their database. Apple have obviously partnered with the wrong geoinformation companies, but instead of remedying their error by spending a little more cash, they simply ask us to accept a second-rate service compared to the US. There are a lot of unemployed in the UK who no doubt would be ecstatic to correct POI errors for a modest wage. Indeed, does Apple make the process of reporting errors easily documented by allowing photos with GPS information to accompany error reports? No, they don't. They're doing a half-assed job. Given the high level of quality in the other domains of Apple products, I find this both frustrating and extremely odd.

Bad .

 

[edddeduck]

In the poll for this thread, more people outside the US thought Apple's maps were poor than excellent. The reverse pattern is true in the US.

I would say that you're slightly manipulating the stats to prove your point.

For people outside the US you get the following results:
27% Excellent
38% OK
34% Poor

For people in the US you get the following results:
54% Excellent
27% OK
19% Poor

Your "steaming pile of excrement" comment (I used poor) does show potentially some bias to how you think the results should be described.

You could just as easily say 65% of people outside of the US think Apple Maps gives an OK or Excellent service compared to 81% of US users. That stat suddenly looks quite good.

My point is that in spite of the fact that Apple has a 'research center' in Ireland, which allows it to avoid corporate tax, the bulk of their money seems to be aimed at providing services to the US. Yet, here in Europe we pay as much – or more – for our iDevices as those in the US.

That is a massive assumption to make, perhaps Apple being a US company and the US having better mapping partners and up to date information could be part of reason for the discrepancy?

Moreover, I see very little evidence whatsoever that Apple is correcting wildly inaccurate POI's in their database.

I believe Apple are focusing on the areas with the largest population and errors reported first so they can improve the service for the most number of users first. This was what Google did places like Edinburgh and the north of England took years to update (my parents home was a field for about 5 years!). However when I moved to London the errors I did find were updated and fixed a lot quicker.

Here is a population map of the UK, every colour has the same population but as you can see some areas are bigger than others.

http://twitter.com/tkb/status/397428787899420674/photo/1

As you can see fixing issues in London (the small dark blob) would fix issues for a bigger population than all of Scotland, Northern Ireland and the North of England! I am not saying it's great for people in sparsely populated areas but you can see the logic to fixing the issues that effect the most amount of people first?

Apple have obviously partnered with the wrong geoinformation companies, but instead of remedying their error by spending a little more cash, they simply ask us to accept a second-rate service compared to the US.

The statistics (given the size of the ENTIRE WORLD) are not that bad for a relatively new service. As for partnering with the wrong companies I wouldn't say that was necessarily the case, Apple have partnered with TomTom for some of the Map information for example who have a very reliable street map system.

Yes some of the other systems are not quite upto date but if you cannot partner with Google then you have to use other systems like Yelp etc which are not quite as robust. I can't tell how much money they are pouring into mapping but it is definitely hundreds of millions based on mapping companies they have bought however throwing money at a massive problem won't always fix it quicker, you also need time.

There are a lot of unemployed in the UK who no doubt would be ecstatic to correct POI errors for a modest wage. Indeed, does Apple make the process of reporting errors easily documented by allowing photos with GPS information to accompany error reports?

Apple allow GPS based reports built into the Mapping program which should suffice. Correcting POI issues isn't this simple grab a few people off the street and update issues blindly. You need to aggregate all the reports, independently verify that the change is indeed correct (a photo won't be enough proof on it's own). You want corrections to be correct and improve the service, blinding updating things based of anonymous reports is a recipe for problems.

Fo example what if a bunch of students reported a street name error renaming it something rude. If enough people report the "change" it still shouldn't be altered unless independently verified. This cannot be solved quicker by hiring more people in a massive call centre style building.

No, they don't. They're doing a half-assed job. Given the high level of quality in the other domains of Apple products, I find this both frustrating and extremely odd.

Bad .

I get it, where you live maps is not as good as Google maps. But it took Google over a decade to get the system to the state they have it now after spending billions on it. Expecting Apple to get to the same level in a year or two is expecting a bit much. Given the head start Google have they seem to be doing pretty well based on the poll you ran.

Can they do better? Yes.

Are Apple working pretty hard on improving it? Yes.

Have overall users experiences improved massively since launch of Maps with iOS6? Yes.

Does more focus need to be on the less populated areas now the main areas are getting much better? Yes.

Should we keep reporting issues to Apple to help them keep up the pace? Yes.

Edwin

 

[OllyW]

Does more focus need to be on the less populated areas now the main areas are getting much better? Yes.

A well though out post.

I'd like to make one point though. I live in the middle of one of the most densely populated areas outside London (the blue bit in the middle) and the response to error reports has been pathetic. Most of the smaller towns in the West Midlands area are still unlabelled and I've reported dozens of other mistakes on numerous occasions since Maps was released, which have all been ignored.

So I would agree with most of your post but disagree with the statement about "now the main areas are getting much better".

 

[edddeduck]

A well though out post.

I'd like to make one point though. I live in the middle of one of the most densely populated areas outside London (the blue bit in the middle) and the response to error reports has been pathetic. Most of the smaller towns in the West Midlands area are still unlabelled and I've reported dozens of other mistakes on numerous occasions since Maps was released, which have all been ignored.

So I would agree with most of your post but disagree with the statement about "now the main areas are getting much better".

Thanks

I think if Apple had an option "let me know when this issue status is updated" option that would help with some of the complaints.

If you knew your reported issue was fixed/duplicate/open/needs verification it would at least let you know the report you logged was not going into a black hole.

Edwin

 

[VulchR]

Thanks

I think if Apple had an option "let me know when this issue status is updated" option that would help with some of the complaints.

If you knew your reported issue was fixed/duplicate/open/needs verification it would at least let you know the report you logged was not going into a black hole.

Edwin

If we can think of ways for Apple to do Maps better, than why can't Apple? I get that some parts of the world are less densely populated as your maps shows, but then again the number of POI's is also less dense. Of course it does makes sense - given Apple's poor implementation of Maps in the first place - to mitigate the disaster by satisfying as many people as possible first by working on high-density areas. However, that still does not explain the US bias, for the EU-27 have about 7% of the world's population and North America has 5%. Finally, having one out of three people outside the US being dissatisfied with a given Apple product seems wholly counter to Apple's focus on quality and excellence. In part this is why I started the thread - first to see if my poor experience is shared by others outside the US (it is) and to put pressure on Apple to start treating its non-US customers as deserving the same service as those in the US (Are you from the US by the way?). The same type of issue applies to Siri services outside the US.

 

[edddeduck]

If we can think of ways for Apple to do Maps better, than why can't Apple?

My point is I think Apple know about the issues but things like this take time. They usually (for good or bad) do things in silence and don't expose their thinking on problems.

I get that some parts of the world are less densely populated as your maps shows, but then again the number of POI's is also less dense. Of course it does makes sense - given Apple's poor implementation of Maps in the first place - to mitigate the disaster by satisfying as many people as possible first by working on high-density areas.

It took Google a few billion dollars, lots of companies keen to get their data integrated into google search (which benefited maps) and over 10 years of hard work to get to the accuracy they have now. I still think your expectations for a new system (that cannot access or use any of Googles proprietary tech or databases) a little harsh.

However, that still does not explain the US bias, for the EU-27 have about 7% of the world's population and North America has 5%. Finally, having one out of three people outside the US being dissatisfied with a given Apple product seems wholly counter to Apple's focus on quality and excellence.

It's not a simple as that as I was trying to show in my population graphic.

There are many factors, in the USA you are looking at a single country with a single counties mapping data, language, legal rules etc. For Europe most countries have different mapping companies, different companies might have accurate data, data formats etc are different. You might have to communicate with different languages when contacting data companies etc.

They all look small items but together it means getting Europe sorted is many times harder than the US. Combine this with the fact Apple don't have a search engine full of data that can be data mined and they have a harder job on their hands. Remember it's in Googles interest to hamper Apple's mapping efforts as much as possible, it makes their platform(s) look better.

It's also assuming the adoption rate of iOS in Europe is the same as the states, last time I checked Apple have double the install base in the states making it a bigger territory for Apple in terms of users.

In part this is why I started the thread - first to see if my poor experience is shared by others outside the US (it is) and to put pressure on Apple to start treating its non-US customers as deserving the same service as those in the US (Are you from the US by the way?). The same type of issue applies to Siri services outside the US.

I doubt this thread is going to put any extra pressure on Apple (but we might as well try), I think they already know Maps is something they need to focus on based on all their comments and investment in the area. I would say compared to a year ago when I would have rated Apple Maps as poor based on recent usage I would be between OK and Excellent.

I use it around London and on Motorways/Major roads. I couple of months ago when using both Google Maps and Apple Maps while travelling near Oxford only Apple told me a motorway slip road was closed saving me 45 minutes on my journey. I know this is only one case but I thought it's worth mentioning as an example of Apple's Maps being better/improved even over Google.

As per my previous posts I work on London but have family in the north of England and I have previously lived in Edinburgh, when Google Maps was brand new and much worse(!) than Apple maps is now.

I am not trying to say that Apple don't need to improve the service (they do), or that the US gets better service on launch with everything from iTunes to Siri (it does) what I am saying is what they are trying to do from scratch is very hard and expecting it to work as well as something like Google maps with a decade of time and user input combined with a few billion dollars of investment is expecting a lot.

Edwin

 

[VulchR]

I understand all you have to say, but a company with Apple's resources should be able to manage Maps better, and to keep their customers updated about efforts to improve maps. If appropriate partners are not available for a given reason, then Apple should hire people to do the mapping, just like Google did. The problem is that Apple wants to be like Google, but does not want to invest like Google. In any case, I've said my peace. I prefer using Apple's products to Google's for a variety of reasons, and it is a shame that where I am Apple's Maps is worth than useless. Indeed, it is not just a shame for me, but it is also for the local businesses that rely on the hundreds of thousands of people who visit our area as tourists.

Finally, as a resident in Scotland, don't get me started on the resources that go to London compared to the rest of the UK...

 

[globalist]

Apple still uses Google maps for Find My Friends/iphone. Just saying.

 

[SolRayz]

I live in South Florida, hardly a rural or uncharted area of the US, and Apple maps fails to even list the road to my work. It's not even mapped correctly. It's a real pain for clients to find us since maps guides you down a road that doesn't even exist!!! Apple fail!

Also I find map loading much slower than it used to be...kind of pointless to have solid LTE and apple can't even keep up with maps on the road consistently.

 

[bransoj]

Apple still uses Google maps for Find My Friends/iphone. Just saying.

Not on my iPhone 5 they dont appear to...its apple maps.

 

[MozMan68]

Apple still uses Google maps for Find My Friends/iphone. Just saying.

ummmm...No....Apple has only used Apple Maps since iOS6 for their own apps.

 

[globalist]

ummmm...No....Apple has only used Apple Maps since iOS6 for their own apps.

Ummmmm, Google maps is still used on https://www.icloud.com for Find My Iphone.

 

[bransoj]

Ummmmm, Google maps is still used on https://www.icloud.com for Find My Iphone.

Yes they use it on the web version as they dont have a web version of their maps. If you use the Find My iPhone app then its Apple maps

 

[mcfly88]

Maps has come a long way, it was usable when it first released (at least in my are, MA). However, I've been using it recently with really good results.. at least when it comes to driving. Walking directions are still awful, it can never find exactly where I am.

 

[robjulo]

My biggest gripe with it now, isn't so much the routes or not finding correct addresses, it is the interface, it stinks.

The lack of an ability to scroll the map without going through "overview" makes me use google maps almost all the time. Right now, without hitting "overview", all it lets you do is some sort of strange rotation of the map, which is utterly useless.

 

[Zellio]

I used Google maps right from its beginning and it also took some time before it became what it is now...and its still not perfect!
Mapping apps are complex and take time to develop.

How many more years will you people give this excuse?

 

[MozMan68]

Yes they use it on the web version as they dont have a web version of their maps. If you use the Find My iPhone app then its Apple maps

He shoots he scores...

 

[LordQ]

I live outside the US and Maps suck. It won't find restaurants and schools Google Maps do, not to mention they use 4 year-old data.

 

[globalist]

He shoots he scores...

Hmm, so this multi-billion company doesn't have a web version of their own maps that were introduced 2 years ago? What's next? They can't get their own maps up to par with Google's for the same lenght of time and have to emergency- crowd-source the data corrections to their alpha-grade product? You don't say!

 

[Señor]

It's great for me.

Some people you just can't please.

 

[MozMan68]

Hmm, so this multi-billion company doesn't have a web version of their own maps that were introduced 2 years ago? What's next? They can't get their own maps up to par with Google's for the same lenght of time and have to emergency- crowd-source the data corrections to their alpha-grade product? You don't say!

I guess I should apologize for being correct...

And thank you for correcting all of us on the bar of success being, " must have a web version of Maps app" as being the new standard to make your point valid...

Sorry...I need to roll my eyes one more time...

 

[Nozuka]

i will probably never switch to apple maps, as long as i'm happy with google maps, even if it became just as good. there would have to be an extremely good feature (that google maps doesnt have) to make me switch.
no reason to switch from something i know and love, when the other service is not massively better.

 

[globalist]

I guess I should apologize for being correct...

And thank you for correcting all of us on the bar of success being, " must have a web version of Maps app" as being the new standard to make your point valid...

Sorry...I need to roll my eyes one more time...

Where did I say they must have a web version of Maps app? Are you even familair with icloud.com?