iOS 7 Changes Mostly Cosmetic - More opportunity for Android to get further ahead?

[jrswizzle]

This is a very good point and I apologize for that. I just feel like couch gets attacked because he's trying to point out things on here and I felt the need to defend him. As a user of both platforms, I'm in a position to see exactly what he's talking about and feel the same way on lots of the points he makes.

But I shouldn't have contradicted myself like that.

Being a multi-platform user myself, I don't think Couch gets attacked because of WHAT he's trying to point out, just the WAY he goes about doing so.

It's all very over-the-top. And in this particular case, WAY too early to be getting all bent out of shape over a rumor we all should've known was coming given Ive's new role.

 

[Night Spring]

But iOS will look flatter. Great.

I sincerely hope iOS 7 is more than that.

I don't get why you are being so pessimistic about iOS 7. You are talking like all they are going to do is change the looks with absolutely NO feature changes. I'm sure that won't be the case. Apple might not add all the features you want, nor make as many feature changes as you want, but surely there would be SOME changes. Each new generation of iOS have included some new features -- iOS 6, for instance, added the Do Not Disturb feature, which I find extremely convenient. They also added the feature to allow users to lock the iOS device into a single app -- very handy for parents, users with special needs, and also for using iPads in "kiosk" mode.

Plus, I'd be surprised if some of Jony Ive's design changes didn't result in increased ease of use to the extent that the ease of use is a feature in itself. That is a common characteristic of lots of Mac hardware, where the design IS a feature. Like the thinness of the MacBook Air is a design, but it also makes it more portable, which is a function. I believe involving him in software design was so that he could bring that kind of design=feature philosophy to software design too. So don't assume that focus on design = no new features. Let's wait and see the final product before we rush to criticize and condemn it.

 

[KentuckyHouse]

Being a multi-platform user myself, I don't think Couch gets attacked because of WHAT he's trying to point out, just the WAY he goes about doing so.

It's all very over-the-top. And in this particular case, WAY too early to be getting all bent out of shape over a rumor we all should've known was coming given Ive's new role.

You're right. There's really no need to get all worked up over something a month and a half before it's released...lol. I guess some people are looking at past history (re: Apple) and thinking since they never change things THAT much, this will just be a small change as well and they get upset. Other than history, there's no real basis for opinions at this point.

That being said, I'm all for speculation (isn't that part of the fun?) We all just need to keep our heads about us while doing it. Do I hope June holds a totally revamped iOS from both an aesthetic and functional standpoint? Of course? Who doesn't love shiny and new (or in this case, apparently, flat and new)? But I'm also not holding my breath. If I had to guess, I'd say it'll be somewhere in the middle between safe and totally different. Apple isn't stupid...they know iOS needs a revamp. Implementing it so it doesn't cause widespread panic among it's less-technical users, though, is a real concern, I'm sure. I have faith they can find a happy medium.

 

[onthecouchagain]

At no point do I say iOS 7 is disappointing. How would I know that? Please read the OP again for all those saying I'm reacting to something that doesn't exist yet. I'm perfectly aware. This is a rumor's site. Are we not allowed to discuss rumors? Again, I hope these rumors don't pan out and iOS 7 brings more than just a "flatter" design.

Also, to continue on my point earlier, when I say something like "people will be duped by Apple's marketing," do I really have to put a disclaimer every time that I obviously don't mean every single iPhone buyer? C'mon now. How could I (or anyone, for that matter) claim to know the minds of millions of people? That'd be ridiculous.

However, there are some of us who, when we heard 'Jon Ivy is going to overhaul iOS 7" a few months ago, got hopeful. This is the first time we've seen a major shift from within Apple. Forestall got kicked out, Ivy got put in, some big changes would be coming. The big question was, what sort of changes? Can we not have a discussion about a recent article/rumor that might give us a potential answer, and that that answer might dash our excitement and hopes for iOS 7? Can this not be discussed?

People are free to continue with the red herrings or non-sequiturs and straw man arguments if they'd like. Others are interested in discussing the potentials of iOS and Apple allowing it to be realized. Again, look to the jailbreak community. They are figuring it out faster than Apple is willing to. iOS could be so much more.

And it should.

 

[Carouser]

So is this thread a place for people to list changes they would like to see in iOS? Because I'm pretty sure there's a subforum with a well-read topic on that very subject. People are free to state their opinions there, go for it.

But read the thread title, "iOS 7 Changes Mostly Cosmetic - More opportunity for Android to get further ahead". And the OP's posts - it's not just a list of preferences, it's presenting preferences as though they were objective problems, shoring up the idea that iOS is deficient, or spreading the idea that iOS 7 will be deficient.

Many people have read the OP's posts in good faith and found them wanting, or contradictory, or misleading, and when they point this out, they are accused of strawmanning or missing the point or going off on a tangent. As a result, I don't know how else one could respond to the OP beyond saying "yes you are right and if there's a problem with your argument it's my fault for not inferring a more sympathetic interpretation".

EDIT: The 'of course I don't mean every person is duped by Apple's marketing, how could I know the mind of millions of people' would be more convincing if the OP ever extended the same observation to other manufacturers. One also wonders what the point of saying that in the first place was - it was pretty elaborate, too, veils over eyes and everything.

What it's doing is setting the stage for the iOS 7 release: if it bombs, well, there's proof that Apple screwed it up. If it's successful, well, there's the proof that marketing trumps 'doing what people really want'. The OP's frame throughout the thread isn't simply to state preferences for iOS 7, it's to frame Apple as objectively second-tier. Then, if people are perfectly happy with iOS 6, or 7, then can be painted as disingenuous when they don't rehearse criticisms constantly.

 

[Tinmania]

I will say the title of this thread should have began with "if." I automatically assumed that. But taken verbatim it does appear like it is a given that iOS 7 will be primarily cosmetically changed.



Michael

 

[Carouser]

I will say the title of this thread should have began with "if." I automatically assumed that. But taken verbatim it does appear like it is a given that iOS 7 will be primarily cosmetically changed.

Even if the title was speculative ('if' changes are mostly cosmetic) the operating assumptions are already baked-in: If Apple makes mostly cosmetic changes, then they have failed. If people are satisfied with those changes, this is implied to be a problem.

 

[Tinmania]

Even if the title was speculative ('if' changes are mostly cosmetic) the operating assumptions are already baked-in: If Apple makes mostly cosmetic changes, then they have failed. If people are satisfied with those changes, this is implied to be a problem.

I can't really agree with that since it was posted in this forum and only related to Android getting further ahead. Android getting further ahead does not mean people will not be satisfied with iOS.



Michael

 

[Carouser]

Even the phrase "Android getting further ahead" already implies that "Android is ahead"! By engaging the OP on his own terms, even if you argue "no, Android won't get further ahead" you're already conceding the point, that Android is superior (or 'ahead' for whatever value of 'ahead' you want to use).

And since this subforum is about honest discussion and comparison, not 'rah rah Android is clearly better', then why would one be compelled to concede that point?

I might as well point out the constant assumption that Android appeals to 'more technical' users whereas iOS users choose their OS because of simplicity, and that Apple should appeal to 'tech-heads as well as old people'. Basically: "Android is for smarties like us and iOS works well for dummies. What's your problem? That's okay if that's what people prefer". It gets posted without question so often it might as well be wallpaper for this forum.

 

[Tinmania]

Even the phrase "Android getting further ahead" already implies that "Android is ahead"! By engaging the OP on his own terms, even if you argue "no, Android won't get further ahead" you're already conceding the point, that Android is superior (or 'ahead' for whatever value of 'ahead' you want to use).

And since this subforum is about honest discussion and comparison, not 'rah rah Android is clearly better', then why would one be compelled to concede that point?

Because it is a fact. That is not even up for debate at this point in time.



Michael

 

[onthecouchagain]

I really don't know what to tell you, Carouser. You're wrong. Maybe I could have worded a few things more clearly, sure -- I wouldn't put that of the realm of possibility.

But if you're done, there are people here interested in talking about iOS 7, instead of talking about me and the way I post.

 

[Carouser]

You heard it here first, folks - the subforum where you can talk about stuff honestly, both pros and cons, and have a genuine discussion? Well, it's a fact that Android is better and this is not up for debate, so uh, there you go.

Now, if you'd like to talk about what you'd like to see in iOS 7, instead of going to the relevant forum, stay here. Why? Because this thread must be about something other than hopes for iOS 7. If you ask the OP to elaborate or defend what this thread is about, or if you find the premises of the conversation questionable, well, "You're wrong, get out. I could word it more clearly, but I won't."

 

[Night Spring]

You heard it here first, folks - the subforum where you can talk about stuff honestly, both pros and cons, and have a genuine discussion? Well, it's a fact that Android is better and this is not up for debate, so uh, there you go.

I quite agree that this "Android is better, there is no room for debate" attitude is off-putting, and not conductive to open discussion. It could be the case that Android has more features than iOS, and that is an objectively measurable fact for which there would be no debate. But whether or not more features equals a better OS is a matter of subjective opinion, and should be open for debate.

I am quite happy with my iPhone and iPads, but I like to read threads in this subforum because I'm curious about other platforms, like Android, Win8, BlackBerry, etc. I feel threads here are more informative than product reviews, because they contain posts by people who actually use the devices in real life, and also because most posters here are switchers from iOS, so they can provide concrete examples of the differences between iOS and alternate platforms. However, it's starting to feel like this subforum is for switchers only, and non-switchers are unwelcome here. *You* may have decided that iOS is no longer for you, but that shouldn't mean that those of us who still stick with iOS should be made to feel defensive about out choice.

 

[onthecouchagain]

Android is better, but no one said you couldn't like and/or enjoy or prefer iOS. Ridiculous accusations.

And yet again straw mans and red herrings. People keep saying "all Couch ever replies with is 'this is a straw man and this is a red herring.'" Well, what do you want me to say when it is?

The discussion here is:

iOS 7 could be so much better. Jailbreak community proves it. Apple, for better or worse, won't implement these [really obvious] features, or implements them at a snail's pace. There are people who wish they would give us things more and more quickly. That's the discussion. And when the shakeup happened at Apple, there was a good opportunity and hope that iOS 7 would bring those changes (it still might!), but a recent story points to the overhaul being mostly cosmetic. That's disappointing.

Okay, big whoop if there are people who prefer iOS or think iOS is good enough. Like I said, there are others who don't agree. If that's all we're going to do is point out people who like iOS and people who don't like iOS, what's the point of discussing? Thanks for pointing that out. I knew that already, but all right.

Again... can we talk about iOS 7 and what it might be, could be, should be, would like it to be?

 

[jrswizzle]

Android is better, but no one said you couldn't like and/or enjoy or prefer iOS. Ridiculous accusations.

And yet again straw mans and red herrings. People keep saying "all Couch ever replies with is 'this is a straw man and this is a red herring.'" Well, what do you want me to say when it is?

The discussion here is:

iOS 7 could be so much better. Jailbreak community proves it. Apple, for better or worse, won't implement these [really obvious] features, or implements them at a snail's pace. There are people who wish they would give us things more and more quickly. That's the discussion. And when the shakeup happened at Apple, there was a good opportunity and hope that iOS 7 would bring those changes (it still might!), but a recent story points to the overhaul being mostly cosmetic. That's disappointing.

Okay, big whoop if there are people who prefer iOS or think iOS is good enough. Like I said, there are others who don't agree. If that's all we're going to do is point out people who like iOS and people who don't like iOS, what's the point of discussing? Thanks for pointing that out. I knew that already, but all right.

Again... can we talk about iOS 7 and what it might be, could be, should be, would like it to be?

Again - its a rumor we all knew was coming, and while the stories say iOS 7 will see a big design overall, that doesn't mean there won't also be fundamental changes in some of the things you complain about.

A design change could mean an overhaul for the layout of the settings app.

Why, with over a month before the damn thing is even released, you would be disappointed is beyond me. Wait until iOS 7 is announced.

We can still discuss what we want in iOS 7 without making these types of "jump to conclusions" statements. The rumor is, iOS 7 will see a major redesign - I don't get why people assume this simply means differently colored apps....

 

[onthecouchagain]

Again - its a rumor we all knew was coming, and while the stories say iOS 7 will see a big design overall, that doesn't mean there won't also be fundamental changes in some of the things you complain about.

A design change could mean an overhaul for the layout of the settings app.

Why, with over a month before the damn thing is even released, you would be disappointed is beyond me. Wait until iOS 7 is announced.

We can still discuss what we want in iOS 7 without making these types of "jump to conclusions" statements. The rumor is, iOS 7 will see a major redesign - I don't get why people assume this simply means differently colored apps....

Yes, let's never have or discuss feelings about rumors at a rumors site and a rumors forum where rumors are the name of the game the majority of the time. Rumors.

 

[jrswizzle]

Yes, let's never have or discuss feelings about rumors at a rumors site and a rumors forum where rumors are the name of the game the majority of the time. Rumors.

Good lord Couch - I said we CAN discuss.....what you did and are doing is taking a rumor and making it truth so you can whine and complain about how iOS 7 is disappointing.

How about, instead of doing this:

"Man, this article says iOS 7 will bring primarily design changes - if that's true, I'm disappointed and Apple will continue to dupe millions of people into buying this garbage."

We do this:

"Man, this article says iOS 7 will bring primarily design changes. I wonder how those changes could affect certain menus that need tweaking like the settings menu. Could an overall UI redesign mean simpler ways to toggle settings? etc...etc...."

The first was complaining. The second was the beginning of a discussion. See the difference?

 

[onthecouchagain]

what you did and are doing is taking a rumor and making it truth so you can whine and complain about how iOS 7 is disappointing.

Please check the OP again. How is this "making it truth":

I was afraid of this: https://www.macrumors.com/2013/04/29/details-on-jony-ives-very-very-flat-design-for-ios-7/

"While the look of the updated system may be surprising to some, iOS 7 is reportedly not more difficult to use than earlier versions of software platform. There is apparently no new learning curve in the same way there was no learning curve when the iPods went color. While iOS 7 does look different, its core apps and system fundamentals (like the Lock and Home screens) mostly operate in a similar fashion to how they do today."

If true, those holding out their breath for big changes to come with iOS 7 (myself included) will likely be disappointed.

 

[jrswizzle]

Please check the OP again.




Image

Is that not exactly what I said? I just added the second part that you said later on.

Anyways - whatever, you want to have a "discussion" where you start off disappointed and follow up with comments about how "if true" millions of Apple fans will eat it up and continue to be duped by Apple's marketing, I want to simply discuss what we know and what it could mean with no emotional comments necessary.

Aren't you the bastion of objectivity? Probably should let the emotions go and just think about the facts.

Not necessarily disputing WHAT you said (I think you DO want to have a genuine discussion), just HOW you said it (you tend to mix in your points with over the top dramatic nonsense).

Let's discuss iveOS 7, without the "if its only cosmetic, people will still be tricked and buy it" comments. They don't serve ANY purpose.

 

[Night Spring]

If true, those holding out their breath for big changes to come with iOS 7 (myself included) will likely be disappointed.

And how about those of us who are pretty satisfied with iOS as it is, and not looking forward to any huge changes? For me, big changes would be a negative, as I'd have to relearn how to do a lot of stuff. I'm not saying iOS is perfect as it is, there are many little things that can be tweaked. For instance, I'd consider having settings toggles in the notification center a tweak -- but maybe that's because I already have that through jailbreak. More accuracy and refinement in how autocorrect works would be welcome, too. However, I don't want to open up iOS 7 and see something completely different from what I'm used to. *That* could just about drive me to Android, lol. The main advantage of iOS to me is that I know it well, and I don't have to spend time figuring out how to do stuff. If iOS changed so much that I was faced with a big learning curve, well, might as well learn a new system while I'm at it.

 

[thehustleman]

Apple has a lot of catching up to do

 

[onthecouchagain]

And how about those of us who are pretty satisfied with iOS as it is, and not looking forward to any huge changes? For me, big changes would be a negative, as I'd have to relearn how to do a lot of stuff. I'm not saying iOS is perfect as it is, there are many little things that can be tweaked. For instance, I'd consider having settings toggles in the notification center a tweak -- but maybe that's because I already have that through jailbreak. More accuracy and refinement in how autocorrect works would be welcome, too. However, I don't want to open up iOS 7 and see something completely different from what I'm used to. *That* could just about drive me to Android, lol. The main advantage of iOS to me is that I know it well, and I don't have to spend time figuring out how to do stuff. If iOS changed so much that I was faced with a big learning curve, well, might as well learn a new system while I'm at it.

Very similar desires to what I would want for future ios too.

 

[tjl3]

Android is better, but no one said you couldn't like and/or enjoy or prefer iOS. Ridiculous accusations.

And yet again straw mans and red herrings. People keep saying "all Couch ever replies with is 'this is a straw man and this is a red herring.'" Well, what do you want me to say when it is?

The discussion here is:

iOS 7 could be so much better. Jailbreak community proves it. Apple, for better or worse, won't implement these [really obvious] features, or implements them at a snail's pace. There are people who wish they would give us things more and more quickly. That's the discussion. And when the shakeup happened at Apple, there was a good opportunity and hope that iOS 7 would bring those changes (it still might!), but a recent story points to the overhaul being mostly cosmetic. That's disappointing.

Okay, big whoop if there are people who prefer iOS or think iOS is good enough. Like I said, there are others who don't agree. If that's all we're going to do is point out people who like iOS and people who don't like iOS, what's the point of discussing? Thanks for pointing that out. I knew that already, but all right.

Again... can we talk about iOS 7 and what it might be, could be, should be, would like it to be?

"Android is better," not sure if sarcastic. I think iOS is better. But Android is more powerful, has more features, and is on par with everything iOS can do. Am I wrong? I never said iOS is better is a fact, but it's my opinion.

No where in the article does it mention that the only change is to the UI. In fact, the part of the article that seems to have been missed is:

The article notes that Apple has looked at ideas to implement new panels with swipes from the left and the right of the screen, much like how the Notification Center currently drops from above.

which could mean huge system impacts and hint at new features to iOS 7.

Also, we're really only looking at 1/3 of iOS. Why everyone assumes Ive is the direct head of iOS development is beyond me. I'd say that Craig Federighi was tasked w/ the oversight and Cue was given a very important role as well. Hell, I could be wrong, they could release a rehashed iOS 6 with a new look (yes I'd be pissed). But the rumors aren't even indicating that, I think you kind of drew that conclusion tho.

And w/ respect to the JB community, in the grand scheme of things it is not a stable iOS build. Individually some features are stable. Are we really lead to believe that a company of intelligent software developers are sitting behind their desk, thumbing their noses, thinking, "pft, our customers want this? Well we've got the best sales, lets put in reflective virtual buttons instead because we want to, rawr."

 

[knucklehead]

Very similar desires to what I would want for future ios too.

And yet, I don't think anyone is wondering "What's up with Night Spring?" -- or perhaps worse -- "What's Night Spring up to?"

Why is there such a difference between you two with such similar desires?

 

[onthecouchagain]

And yet, I don't think anyone is wondering "What's up with Night Spring?" -- or perhaps worse -- "What's Night Spring up to?"

Why is there such a difference between you two with such similar desires?

I talk the way I talk. What can I say? Heh.

Again, we can spend time talking about how I should write my OP, or we can actually talk about the article and iOS 7.