iPad iPad 2 ruined by iOS 8

[jrswizzle]

Or maybe Apple could do something for the consumer and help things run better on their older software. The problem actually is that iOS 8 is bloated to the extent it runs poorly on A7 and A8 devices. No wonder it runs poorly on the A5.

What? It runs just fine on my A7 and A8 devices....I'm not sure what "bloat" you're referring to. There have been some software bugs for sure, but as of 8.2, I've had no issues. Certainly nothing with lag.

Apple was still selling iPad 2s only a year ago, so many were still buying them, unaware on age etc. They are still selling the iPad 2 today, just in different casing as the iPad Mini 1. That means you had customers with 1 year old devices, and I'm sorry but if Apple is gonna be greedy and keep old hardware for sale for so long, software support is needed. Or they need to print on the box that the device won't be able to upgrade past a certain point and could loose speed and functionality.

Ahh there it is....Apple is GREEDY....please.

I agree that Apple should do a little more hand-holding here, but its also up to the consumer to do research before making a purchase.

Apple should give devices the longest support period it can. Its in the best interests of people and the environment. We don't need yet another reason for even more waste to be created quicker.

Apparently not since we have people here complaining that their 4 year old device can't run the latest software well enough for their liking. So you either extend support past the optimal user experience point or you shorten support, which would cause your type of complaining.

Yes consumers should read before they update their software, and yes people should understand that software will slow down their device, but Apple shouldn't be allowed to get away with everything.

Lets remember not every one is made of money.

If an iPad is such a huge purchase, I would hope that said consumer would do A LOT of research....especially as it relates to maintanence and upgrading of the software so as to make the device last as long as possible.

I'm curious - what is Apple "getting away with" in your mind?

Anyways, my iPad 2 runs reasonably well with iOS 8. It for some reason can not render smooth animations any more and safari tab reloading is far worse. I got improvements in 8.1.1 and slight improvements with 8.2. Heres hoping for iOS 9 support, and more improvements there.

Because the extra animations that give iOS 8 its depth were optimized to run on newer hardware. A device 5-10x less powerful just cant handle it. You want Apple to withhold new features and UI enhancements just so you can get an extra year out of your device? That's extremely selfish of you...

Apple does what it can (too much in my opinion) to keep as many devices supported as possible. But with each new OS update come more features and improvements that invariably are more complex and require more power. It's just the way things are.

Again, the iPad 2 was the SECOND generation of this mobile product line....expecting it to last this long was naive. You want a product that will last, get the iPad Air 2 now. We're coming up on a maturing of the platform and it's far more powerful than any software out there for it currently.

 

[oldmacs]

What? It runs just fine on my A7 and A8 devices....I'm not sure what "bloat" you're referring to. There have been some software bugs for sure, but as of 8.2, I've had no issues. Certainly nothing with lag.

My 2 week old iPad Mini 2 runs terribly with iOS 8.2 constant jerkiness and bugginess. I've never seen any device on its first update like this. iOS 8 has fundamental issues. The iPad 4 ran iOS 7 better than this, as did the iPad 3 with iOS 6 and the iPad with iOS 5. I have friends with iPhone 6's and the animations jerk. Thats not normal. I've never seen any device on its native version of iOS act so poorly.

Ahh there it is....Apple is GREEDY....please.

I agree that Apple should do a little more hand-holding here, but its also up to the consumer to do research before making a purchase.

Apple is greedy. Why are they selling the iPad Mini 1 and iPod Touch 5?? Greed. Its as simple as that.

Apparently not since we have people here complaining that their 4 year old device can't run the latest software well enough for their liking. So you either extend support past the optimal user experience point or you shorten support, which would cause your type of complaining.

I'd be happy with iOS 8 was as optimised as possible. But its not. It runs badly on everything relative to Apples past software releases.

If an iPad is such a huge purchase, I would hope that said consumer would do A LOT of research....especially as it relates to maintanence and upgrading of the software so as to make the device last as long as possible.

Most people trust the Apple store and other stores to give them information, and also they trust the iPad brand. People do research only to have stores tell them different things. Apple store employees never told people that the iPad 2 was too old for purchase in March 2014. Nor are they telling people that now iwht the iPad mini 1.

I'm curious - what is Apple "getting away with" in your mind?

Selling hardware past its use by date and then complimenting it with poorly optimised software.

Because the extra animations that give iOS 8 its depth were optimized to run on newer hardware. A device 5-10x less powerful just cant handle it. You want Apple to withhold new features and UI enhancements just so you can get an extra year out of your device? That's extremely selfish of you...

I'd love to see the new animations in iOS 8 - oh wait there aren't any. iOS 8 has the same animations as iOS 7, in which A5 devices rendered animations fine. It comes down to alack of optimisation. Maybe you're the selfish one, given that there are more people on the iPad 2 than any other iPad. Around 45 percent of iPad users are on the iPad 2 and iPad Mini 1.

Apple does what it can (too much in my opinion) to keep as many devices supported as possible. But with each new OS update come more features and improvements that invariably are more complex and require more power. It's just the way things are.

"Too much"... they don't do enough. Apple has a lot of resources so it could perhaps do a bit more to give advantage to its users. Cutting bloat would help pretty much every device.

Again, the iPad 2 was the SECOND generation of this mobile product line....expecting it to last this long was naive. You want a product that will last, get the iPad Air 2 now. We're coming up on a maturing of the platform and it's far more powerful than any software out there for it currently.

If it wasn't meant to last that long why was it on sale till a year ago, and still on sale in a different form factor?

I'm very excited that you can afford that latest and greatest but the majority can not.

 

[Kariya]

iOS 8.3 improves performance across the board anyway so its a moot point.

 

[capathy21]

"Too much"... they don't do enough. Apple has a lot of resources so it could perhaps do a bit more to give advantage to its users. Cutting bloat would help pretty much every device.

Are you serious? I take it you haven't spend time with an Android device which (if you are lucky) may see 1 or 2 software updates at the most. Apple supports their devices years after they should. The iPad 2 was released in 2011. If someone was purchasing an iPad 2 last year then they were purchasing it because it was cheap. Clearly less expensive options are not going to perform as well as the higher end option. I have used 2 different iPad 2's running iOS 8.1 and 8.2 and haven't noticed any issues at all. It is quite remarkable that they are still supporting a 4 year old device. As someone else stated, if an iPad is a massively important purchase, that person should do the research and know exactly what they are purchasing. With all of the resources available to a consumer, there is no excuse for not understand what your are purchasing.

 

[gotluck]

Apple should let people downgrade iOS. But that doesn't sell new devices, because it fixes your old one

 

[yangchewren]

How is the ipad 2 4-5 years old? It was released march 2011 and was sold up till march the following year (ipad 3 uses the same processor and so does the ipad mini which is still being sold). iOS 8 was released september 2014, that's more like 3.5 years for the earliest adopters.

@Oldmacs,

You've kindly conceded at times, but I think you're wasting your time debating with this chap who seems to be out to attack you as a person instead of discussing the issue at hand. I too am one of those who had a practically unusable ipad 2 after the iOS 8 update.

 

[oldmacs]

Are you serious? I take it you haven't spend time with an Android device which (if you are lucky) may see 1 or 2 software updates at the most. Apple supports their devices years after they should. The iPad 2 was released in 2011. If someone was purchasing an iPad 2 last year then they were purchasing it because it was cheap. Clearly less expensive options are not going to perform as well as the higher end option. I have used 2 different iPad 2's running iOS 8.1 and 8.2 and haven't noticed any issues at all. It is quite remarkable that they are still supporting a 4 year old device. As someone else stated, if an iPad is a massively important purchase, that person should do the research and know exactly what they are purchasing. With all of the resources available to a consumer, there is no excuse for not understand what your are purchasing.

The point is that aPple is not an Android manufacturer and while yes, the iPad 2 has done well, not all Apple products have done that well. I think though as consumers we should hope for longer support cycles, especially on iPads as people don't replace them as often, and nor should they have to.

Again, many consumers think that Apple stores should probably be the best research the can get (funnily enough). iPads have built up a reputation of certain things and that is what people expect when they buy various products.

Perhaps Apple could come clean and tell people what they're buying with older devices.

 

[oldmacs]

How is the ipad 2 4-5 years old? It was released march 2011 and was sold up till march the following year (ipad 3 uses the same processor and so does the ipad mini which is still being sold). iOS 8 was released september 2014, that's more like 3.5 years for the earliest adopters.

@Oldmacs,

You've kindly conceded at times, but I think you're wasting your time debating with this chap who seems to be out to attack you as a person instead of discussing the issue at hand. I too am one of those who had a practically unusable ipad 2 after the iOS 8 update.

Thanks

My view on the issue is that people should not stick up for Apple for the heck of it. I love Apple but criticism is due where criticism is due. iOS 8 was not ready for the limelight and to some extent is still not. Apple clearly thinks that the A5 is still reasonable for basic tasks, as it is still selling two A5 devices, so the iPad 2 should be able to run iOS 8 reasonably well (as should A6,A7 and A8 devices).

 

[MH01]

Not sure why anyone would want to upgrade an almost 4 year old iPad with the latest iOS. That is just asking for it. I kept my iPad 3 on iOS 6 and never upgraded it. Smooth as butter.

Cause Apple said it was okay to do so. It's not the customers fault .

 

[MyopicPaideia]

Don't know if this has been said yet here, but I had the same problem. Son's iPad 2 became molasses after upgrading it to iOS 8.

I decided to wipe it completely and return it to factory settings, then updated to 8.1...and it did help a LOT. It obviously isn't as snappy as it was on its original OS, but it is not bad at all. It doesn't freeze or stutter randomly anymore. It's 32GB are filled to the brim with media and apps as well.

Tried the same trick on the other iPad 2 we have around that I am using to run Duet (external display via USB). That one only is also a 32GB model, and has only two apps on it the rest of the flash storage free - it is very smooth.

This is just anecdotal, I know, but may be of some help to those feeling crippled by an old device?

There are just as many threads complaining about Apple not allowing old devices to upgrade to the latest OS as there are those complaining that Apple is forcing old devices to upgrade and ruining them...

 

[jrswizzle]

Apple should let people downgrade iOS. But that doesn't sell new devices, because it fixes your old one

It also makes troubleshooting and technical support more difficult and complex.

A big selling point for Apple is their customer service - complicating that would cause a drop in quality of service.

Calculated risk. Personally, I agree Apple should discontinue devices earlier (or at least stop OS update support earlier). The reason the iPad 2 was sold as long as it was likely had some to do with the iPad 3/4 debacle and the fact that a large number of enterprise and educational institutions were buying them up because of the price. These groups likely don't update software without first vetting it....unlike consumers it would seem.

Apple is a corporation in the business of making money. What some would call greed and/or planned obsolescence, is simply the industry moving forward. It's an incredibly quickly moving product line with new features and complexities being added each year. To say they need to slow that down so those on 4 year old devices can stay on them longer is ludicrous.

I concede, iOS 8 had problems at the start. They did a lot under the hood and generally, when you mess around under the hood you create problems. Ever since 8.1.3 and into 8.2, I haven't had any issues and neither has my wife.

My guess is, people who suffer through "horrible lag" or other issues likely haven't done all that could be done to solve the problem. Namely, a complete wipe and restore as new.

It's a pain, but it costs less and that seems to be the main pain point.

Again, compared with my laptop experience - 4-5 years out of a mobile device that costs $500 sounds pretty good. Especially since in that 4-5 years you don't have to deal with bad battery life or viruses.

 

[jrswizzle]

D

This is just anecdotal, I know, but may be of some help to those feeling crippled by an old device?

Not anecdotal at all.....9/10 this helps people who are having issues. As we accumulate data on our devices, things get stuck and bog down. My wife has a weird reminders bug on her iPhone 6 that I guarantee didn't come with iOS 8 (I've never had the bug on mine). Likely it just happened earlier and has hitched a ride through her backups to this new device.

A wipe and restore as new SHOULD ALWAYS be your final option to fix whatever is wrong and it will almost always work.

For the times it doesn't, that likely means there's a hardware problem and a new device is necessary.

 

[sracer]

There are just as many threads complaining about Apple not allowing old devices to upgrade to the latest OS as there are those complaining that Apple is forcing old devices to upgrade and ruining them...

Please share a few links to the many threads complaining about Apple not allowing old devices to upgrade. I haven't run across any.

 

[MyopicPaideia]

Please share a few links to the many threads complaining about Apple not allowing old devices to upgrade. I haven't run across any.

Here's one from a quick 5 second search, on the commuter train, don't have time or connection for more ;-)

 

[sracer]

Here's one from a quick 5 second search, on the commuter train, don't have time or connection for more ;-)

Try again. What you posted was someone else claiming that people were complaining about not being able to upgrade.

 

[MyopicPaideia]

Try again. What you posted was someone else claiming that people were complaining about not being able to upgrade.

?? That whole thread is a debate on the issue with posters on both sides of the discussion...anyway, I know you'll claim I concede the point because I don't want to make you a list of all the threads where posters complain about devices not being able to upgrade to the latest OS.

Let's drop the semantics about who has the burden of proof (me who made a statement or you who refute it) on a side issue and keep this thread on track.

 

[gotluck]

It also makes troubleshooting and technical support more difficult and complex.

A big selling point for Apple is their customer service - complicating that would cause a drop in quality of service.

Calculated risk. Personally, I agree Apple should discontinue devices earlier (or at least stop OS update support earlier). The reason the iPad 2 was sold as long as it was likely had some to do with the iPad 3/4 debacle and the fact that a large number of enterprise and educational institutions were buying them up because of the price. These groups likely don't update software without first vetting it....unlike consumers it would seem.

Apple is a corporation in the business of making money. What some would call greed and/or planned obsolescence, is simply the industry moving forward. It's an incredibly quickly moving product line with new features and complexities being added each year. To say they need to slow that down so those on 4 year old devices can stay on them longer is ludicrous.

I concede, iOS 8 had problems at the start. They did a lot under the hood and generally, when you mess around under the hood you create problems. Ever since 8.1.3 and into 8.2, I haven't had any issues and neither has my wife.

My guess is, people who suffer through "horrible lag" or other issues likely haven't done all that could be done to solve the problem. Namely, a complete wipe and restore as new.

It's a pain, but it costs less and that seems to be the main pain point.

Again, compared with my laptop experience - 4-5 years out of a mobile device that costs $500 sounds pretty good. Especially since in that 4-5 years you don't have to deal with bad battery life or viruses.

they could require a DFU restore in order to downgrade which could weed out a majority of the dweebs that cause customer support headaches. or they could come up with some other way to allow people to go back.

This quote really riles me up:
"To say they need to slow that down so those on 4 year old devices can stay on them longer is ludicrous."

I dont wan't them to slow down, I just want to get my ipad 2 back on iOS 6 or 7, both of which perform better than any of the optimizations done in ios8. same goes for the iphone 4s. and the iphone 4 was much better on ios6 than 7

I don't think apple slows down older devices on purpose. But some people would rather sacrifice features in order to downgrade for better performance. Rebutting that with , 'but customer support', is not a good enough reason IMO. Customer support always updates to latest version for troubleshooting anyway, so whats the problem?

it is also interesting that iOS is the only major mobile operating system whose requirements increase with each release, actually you can throw OSX in there too as the only Desktop OS that has increasing system requirements each release. There is definitely an element of convenient obsolescence, fortunately OSX can be downgraded though (which if you read the forums here many users with older macs do not update even if their device is supported). That doesnt seem to cause apple overwhelming support headaches

 

[MyopicPaideia]

it is also interesting that iOS is the only major mobile operating system whose requirements increase with each release, actually you can throw OSX in there too as the only Desktop OS that has increasing system requirements each release. There is definitely an element of convenient obsolescence, fortunately OSX can be downgraded though (which if you read the forums here many users with older macs do not update even if their device is supported)

I get where you are coming from, but this is just a weird assertion. Name one major operating system, mobile or otherwise, that doesn't have increased hardware requirements and/or increased resource usage with each major revision/version. Android, Windows (mobile and desktop) and Linux (name your distro) all have higher resource/hardware requirements/recommendations with each major new release as well, and it makes sense, as new features and support for newer technologies and hardware are added, and security from new malicious threats are implemented.

The big difference with iOS, and this is where most of the debate is concentrated, is that Apple does implement so-called "forced" upgrades in some instances where a critical security threat patch is applied, but the only way to get it on a device that supports the latest OS is to upgrade completely, even if the fix is also pushed out to older devices that do not support the latest OS. This was (in)famously the case with iOS 6.1.6 last year, which only was given to the iPod Touch 4th generation, the only iOS 6 eligable device that was not eligable for iOS 7. Everybody else had to upgrade to iOS 7 in order to continue to use FaceTime, because Apple stopped signing the iOS 6.1.5 certificate due to the heartbleed bug (I think it was that one). People were up in arms that they had to upgrade to 7.0.3 instead of being able to upgrade to 6.1.6.

 

[gotluck]

I get where you are coming from, but this is just a weird assertion. Name one major operating system, mobile or otherwise, that doesn't have increased hardware requirements and/or increased resource usage with each major revision/version. Android, Windows (mobile and desktop) and Linux (name your distro) all have higher resource/hardware requirements/recommendations with each major new release as well, and it makes sense, as new features and support for newer technologies and hardware are added, and security from new malicious threats are implemented.

The big difference with iOS, and this is where most of the debate is concentrated, is that Apple does implement so-called "forced" upgrades in some instances where a critical security threat patch is applied, but the only way to get it on a device that supports the latest OS is to upgrade completely, even if the fix is also pushed out to older devices that do not support the latest OS. This was (in)famously the case with iOS 6.1.6 last year, which only was given to the iPod Touch 4th generation, the only iOS 6 eligable device that was not eligable for iOS 7. Everybody else had to upgrade to iOS 7 in order to continue to use FaceTime, because Apple stopped signing the iOS 6.1.5 certificate due to the heartbleed bug (I think it was that one). People were up in arms that they had to upgrade to 7.0.3 instead of being able to upgrade to 6.1.6.

android requirements have been steady after decreasing from 4.3 to 4.4, 5.0 is same as 4.4

windows has decreased from vista to 7 to 8 and likely further decreased to 10

I really think it is because the business models of the OS' are different.

 

[jrswizzle]

they could require a DFU restore in order to downgrade which could weed out a majority of the dweebs that cause customer support headaches. or they could come up with some other way to allow people to go back.

This quote really riles me up:
"To say they need to slow that down so those on 4 year old devices can stay on them longer is ludicrous."

I dont wan't them to slow down, I just want to get my ipad 2 back on iOS 6 or 7, both of which perform better than any of the optimizations done in ios8. same goes for the iphone 4s. and the iphone 4 was much better on ios6 than 7

I don't think apple slows down older devices on purpose. But some people would rather sacrifice features in order to downgrade for better performance. Rebutting that with , 'but customer support', is not a good enough reason IMO. Customer support always updates to latest version for troubleshooting anyway, so whats the problem?

it is also interesting that iOS is the only major mobile operating system whose requirements increase with each release, actually you can throw OSX in there too as the only Desktop OS that has increasing system requirements each release. There is definitely an element of convenient obsolescence, fortunately OSX can be downgraded though (which if you read the forums here many users with older macs do not update even if their device is supported). That doesnt seem to cause apple overwhelming support headaches

(1) I never said "customer support" was a good excuse. Merely it seemed to be the most obvious to me.

(2) I would personally be fine with allowing for a downgrade.

(3) The implication in this thread is that Apple is somehow at fault for continuing to move iOS forward at the expense of old products. That's where my comment that riled you up came from.

(4) I'd argue iOS was also the only major mobile OS that started as simplistically and efficiently as possible. Android has been paring down bloat for years. iOS didn't need to do that - they were looking to beef iOS up.

(5) If people are fine sacrificing features for smoothness, don't upgrade period. Do some research and find out if there are any issues. Despite what some like to say, no one is FORCED to update their software.

All this being said....it's a 4 year old device. The SECOND generation of its product line. Understand how this stuff works and move on. The Air 2 is a phenomenal device.

 

[sracer]

?? That whole thread is a debate on the issue with posters on both sides of the discussion...anyway, I know you'll claim I concede the point because I don't want to make you a list of all the threads where posters complain about devices not being able to upgrade to the latest OS.

Let's drop the semantics about who has the burden of proof (me who made a statement or you who refute it) on a side issue and keep this thread on track.

• Made a claim (same number of threads complaining about not being able to upgrade as those complaining about upgrades)
• Can't support the claim
• Preempt being called out
• Now it's a side issue

Contrary to what you have claimed, there are NOT the same or similar number of complaints about not being able to upgrade.

This is NOT a side issue but very relevant to the point of this thread. The mythical masses of people who would complain if Apple was more conservative in what devices they allowed to upgrade doesn't exist. And since it doesn't exist, the question remains...

What are the reasons why Apple has a liberal range of devices that can upgrade when the results are not satisfactory for some/many...compounded by the inability to revert to a previous version?

 

[gotluck]

All this being said....it's a 4 year old device. The SECOND generation of its product line. Understand how this stuff works and move on. The Air 2 is a phenomenal device.

Oh I get it, it is just avoidable ******** that is not in the best interest of the consumer

One of the cons of iOS. God forbid if someone wants to try the new os to see if they like it on their device.


Re:
(4) I'd argue iOS was also the only major mobile OS that started as simplistically and efficiently as possible. Android has been paring down bloat for years. iOS didn't need to do that - they were looking to beef iOS up

Yes this is true, but the inability to downgrade makes this a problem at times when a certainly still useful device is diminished forno good reason.

 

[jrswizzle]

Oh I get it, it is just avoidable ******** that is not in the best interest of the consumer

One of the cons of iOS.


Re:
(4) I'd argue iOS was also the only major mobile OS that started as simplistically and efficiently as possible. Android has been paring down bloat for years. iOS didn't need to do that - they were looking to beef iOS up

Yes this is true, but the inability to downgrade makes this a problem at times when a certilaily still useful device is diminished forno good reason.

How many second generation devices lasted 4-5 years before becoming completely obsolete? (I would argue the iPad 2 still isn't as many report wipe & restore allows the iPad 2 to run iOS 8 just fine).

 

[gotluck]

How many second generation devices lasted 4-5 years before becoming completely obsolete? (I would argue the iPad 2 still isn't as many report wipe & restore allows the iPad 2 to run iOS 8 just fine).

Why is that even relevant? Why can't I pick what freggin version I want?

 

[jrswizzle]

What are the reasons why Apple has a liberal range of devices that can upgrade when the results are not satisfactory for some/many...compounded by the inability to revert to a previous version?

That's a great question.....hope you find the answer because I'd love to know.

It could be as simple as the hardware and software progressions caused a bit of a problem in that A5 range. After all we have a 4 year old iPad 2 and a 2 year old iPad mini with the same chipset.

Of course it could be that Apple wants to squeeze every penny they can out of people so they offer old devices and when people update the software and find it isn't as nice they cave and buy new devices....

In the end, I'm on board the downgrade train. But again, I just don't think Apple feels its smart to let their users move "backwards". My guess is, moving FORWARDS, the iOS updates will be better suited for the hardware updates that are 2 years old. After all, hardware is stagnating.

I think it's easy to forget....the iPad as a product line is 5 years old....and in 5 years the Air 2 is roughly 10x faster than its second generation counterpart from only 4 years ago (which I think was roughly 4x faster than the iPad 1 - no geekbench data for it though).

The fact that some discrepancy exists between the software and hardware improvements and what works best on which device for how long makes sense if you think about it this way.

----------

Why is that even relevant? Why can't I pick what freggin version I want?

I don't know. I didn't come up with the policy....my guess is Apple sees iOS 8 as the ideal and wants everyone who can be on it, on it. See my post above.