Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
The first post of this thread is a WikiPost and can be edited by anyone with the appropiate permissions. Your edits will be public.

Mark Stone

macrumors 6502
Mar 20, 2022
497
551
In its case.
[clipped]
You all caught up in the hype that iPads can DO everything that meets everyone's needs.
I don’t think anyone has said that. In business applications, with a keyboard, an M1 iPad perfectly replaces a Windows PC. My architectural studies and work in the local historic community has gone on seamlessly without the old PC. However, I don’t pretend that I speak for all users - and I don’t think you should pretend to, either.
 

bcortens

macrumors 65816
Aug 16, 2007
1,324
1,796
Canada
I don't remember the original message you are mentioning, and I don't know if it was from the same person, I was just referring to that specific message and of course I agree with your point, and I said it myself in the comment you quoted, touch on Mac isn't making much difference. The main reason why Macs don't sell as much as PCs (and, by the way, iPads no longer outsell Macs) is price and, to some extent, "inertia" (people stay with what they know, unless they have a very compelling reason to change). Enabling the Pencil on Macs (with or without touch), would probably have a bigger impact than allowing touch, but sales would still be limited to a niche of artists and other people who want a Mac as their main device and need/want to draw, annotate etc.
It wouldn't make much difference in terms of market share. Even Apple Silicon, which is a much bigger deal than touch/pencil, hasn't moved the market share needle much. Only price could (and even then it would take time to win the inertia), but Apple is not and will never be a high volume - low margin company...
Apple silicon (m1) vs the A12z is evolution not revolution.
Compared to the A10x the A12z offers 1.33x the single threaded performance and 2x the multithreaded performance. Comparing M1 vs A12Z we get a 1.5x improvement for both single and multithreaded performance.
M1 is very similar to a hypothetical A14x, it has GPU enhancements to better support macOS graphics and it has more powerful IO but it really is a straight line through from the A(n)X series to the M(n) series…

Edit - if you’re talking about intel to apple silicon I apologize since that is indeed a big deal.
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,659
4,498
Apple silicon (m1) vs the A12z is evolution not revolution.
Compared to the A10x the A12z offers 1.33x the single threaded performance and 2x the multithreaded performance. Comparing M1 vs A12Z we get a 1.5x improvement for both single and multithreaded performance.
M1 is very similar to a hypothetical A14x, it has GPU enhancements to better support macOS graphics and it has more powerful IO but it really is a straight line through from the A(n)X series to the M(n) series…

Edit - if you’re talking about intel to apple silicon I apologize since that is indeed a big deal.
Yep, I was talking about the transition from Intel to Apple Silicon (I wasn't talking about the iPad, only about the Mac)

PS Concerning the iPad, I have made the same point you made in the past (back in 2020 already on this forum). CPU/GPU wise it's not a bigger jump than from the 2017 A10X to the 2018 A12X (it's not even necessary to compare it to the very similar A12Z). The only big deal about M1 was RAM and, to some extent, storage speed. These elements, and not CPU/GPU, is what prevented those SOCs from getting Stage Manager (a feature which I don't particularly like, but which is the only way to get extended display support...)
 
Last edited:

Slartibart

macrumors 68040
Aug 19, 2020
3,145
2,819
iPad can never have desktop focused apps with only touch based controls. RAM is also very limited on iPads 16GB is not enough for devs, content creators and streamers and AAA gaming is non-existent on iPads.
Civ 6, Eve Echoes, Divinity Original Sin 2, Alien Isolation… there are of course tons of other games available which are not exactly triple A, but look absolutely beautiful and are very fun. 🤓
Laptops can go up to 64GB RAM
Well, you can get a MacBook Pro with 64GB RAM, can’t you? 🤓
and have processors more powerful than M1.
But can it run Final Cut? 😂🤣😎
Open source apps like Blender are not available on iPads so the iPad can never a choice for 3D workflows for 99.99% of people unless Apple opens up the App Store to allow Blender.
That - as of this writing - Blender isn’t in the Appstore has nothing to do with wether Apple allows it. There is the little obstacle that it is simply not ported to iPadOS.
An additional observation: Blender isn’t the 3D workflow choice for 99.99% of the people. 🙃🙂

You all caught up in the hype that iPads can DO everything that meets everyone's needs.
Nobody wrote that.

Maybe you just skimmed over this whole thread and missed some relevant bits? 😀
 
Last edited:

partsofspeech

macrumors regular
Apr 6, 2018
238
258
I've had a MacBook Pro Retina for a year now, and quite frankly, its simply overkill for what I used the computer for on a daily basis. I would have been fine with a MacBook Air, but elected to spend the extra cash for a nice screen.

I use writing intensive programs (Final Draft, Pages, etc), but outside from that, just do regular web browsing, music, and etc.

I was curious of if anyone on here had replaced their laptop with an iPad,

testbecause I am considering doing that. I'm just curious about how the keyboards work with the iPad.
As of July 7, 2022, I have used iPad Pro (2nd generation) daily for more than four years. I don't have any book series and rely on iMac Pro for 'real' computer job. I had thought the iPad Pro would replace most of laptop functions, but it did not. The strength of iPad pro lies in that it actually creates new usages because of its touch-focused user interface.

Then that also comes its weakness: the keyboard, which is clumsy to use and has very poor mileage. It started early randomly losing connection and then became completely useless 4 years later. I would not buy any newer model of iPad unless they solve the keyboard quality problem in a fundamental way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eltoslightfoot

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,921
13,273
Since when having a display kb/mouse in covid, WFH, times is rare. Like really? XD

He already mentioned for iPads.

We have a few of those at home but they’re connected to desktops. We don’t even bother connecting the laptops to external display, much less the iPad.

I do often use the iPad Pro 12.9 with bluetooth keyboard and mouse, though (Logitech multi-device KB/M which also controls my desktop).
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
20,396
23,901
Singapore
Since when having a display kb/mouse in covid, WFH, times is rare. Like really? XD
I have an external monitor and keyboard / mouse at my workplace, but not at home, where I am running an iMac in the study room. In my bedroom, I use a MBA, but a monitor would take up too much space on my desk.
 

Violet_Antelope

macrumors regular
Nov 14, 2020
102
158
Just yesterday I found myself realising yet again that I couldn't ever use an iPad as my only Mac - I needed to do a simple task which takes moments on the mac but is totally impossible on the iPad. But that wasn't the iPad's limitation, it was the limitation of the software. And I think that's what's truly frustrating. We can argue back and forth about what OS exactly the iPad should run, but when what it does run lacks truly basic features it's a real issue.
 

eltoslightfoot

macrumors 68030
Feb 25, 2011
2,560
3,115
Just yesterday I found myself realising yet again that I couldn't ever use an iPad as my only Mac - I needed to do a simple task which takes moments on the mac but is totally impossible on the iPad. But that wasn't the iPad's limitation, it was the limitation of the software. And I think that's what's truly frustrating. We can argue back and forth about what OS exactly the iPad should run, but when what it does run lacks truly basic features it's a real issue.
That is a real part of it though. Scrivener on the iPad is a shell of what it is on the Mac/Windows. Same with Devonthink, Office, etc.,
 

Ludatyk

macrumors 603
May 27, 2012
5,971
5,141
Texas
Just yesterday I found myself realising yet again that I couldn't ever use an iPad as my only Mac - I needed to do a simple task which takes moments on the mac but is totally impossible on the iPad. But that wasn't the iPad's limitation, it was the limitation of the software. And I think that's what's truly frustrating. We can argue back and forth about what OS exactly the iPad should run, but when what it does run lacks truly basic features it's a real issue.
I'm curious... what was the task you were trying to accomplish on the iPad?

That is a real part of it though. Scrivener on the iPad is a shell of what it is on the Mac/Windows. Same with Devonthink, Office, etc.,
Well, that's because those kind of apps were built from the ground up that doesn't compare to the history of Windows/Mac. Have to put it into perspective since Windows/Mac software have decades of history behind it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ICampNowhere

Violet_Antelope

macrumors regular
Nov 14, 2020
102
158
I'm curious... what was the task you were trying to accomplish on the iPad?
Change the orientation of a single page on a pdf, then print it two sided borderless scaled to fill complete paper. The first part - manipulating the pdf - I could probably have done ok using a third party app, but the printer offered nowhere near the level of fine-grained control I rely on. In no way was this an issue of hardware, nor likely of Apple software, but none-the-less I had to go back to the mac where the task was done in seconds.
 

Ludatyk

macrumors 603
May 27, 2012
5,971
5,141
Texas
Change the orientation of a single page on a pdf, then print it two sided borderless scaled to fill complete paper. The first part - manipulating the pdf - I could probably have done ok using a third party app, but the printer offered nowhere near the level of fine-grained control I rely on. In no way was this an issue of hardware, nor likely of Apple software, but none-the-less I had to go back to the mac where the task was done in seconds.
But that’s the thing… this task could have probably been completed on the iPad with some additional work on your part. Granted, the task is much easier and perhaps quicker on the Mac.

You might not have an HP Printer, so… it might be irrelevant to suggest. But the HP app have quite a bit of tools to provide the user more options when it comes to printing. I’m fully aware that when it comes to printing the iPad software is limited, I tend to print via the HP app.
 

eltoslightfoot

macrumors 68030
Feb 25, 2011
2,560
3,115
I'm curious... what was the task you were trying to accomplish on the iPad?


Well, that's because those kind of apps were built from the ground up that doesn't compare to the history of Windows/Mac. Have to put it into perspective since Windows/Mac software have decades of history behind it.
Right, but that doesn't make it any easier to go iPad only. :)
 

dalestrauss

macrumors regular
Sep 1, 2013
185
208
Midland, TX
They can put BootCamp but for macOS. It's not that hard...

The iPad Pro already has a keyboard and trackpad. Apple can offer dual boot.

Likely that that idea was axed by the marketing department immediately. They could, and chose not to.

And we are better off for it.
Agianst my better judgment I’m going to wade into the swamp. Why are “we” better off not having dual boot option. “You” may feel you are better off for it because it doesn’t spoil your pure iPad world, but for those users willing to accept the compromises of poor touch capabilities for having an ultra-modern, ultra-portable MacBook when we need it, why shouldn’t we get that? Why should Abazigal and ericwn determine what me and exoticSpice have to live with? Let ME make that choice, not you (or Apple)...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Slartibart

eltoslightfoot

macrumors 68030
Feb 25, 2011
2,560
3,115
True… but I’ve never been an advocate of going iPad only. I use a desktop PC whenever it’s needed and use the iPad as my primary device. Now, I understand it might not be for everyone… but I prefer the versatility of the iPad.
No, that is true. 100%
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ludatyk

ericwn

macrumors G5
Apr 24, 2016
12,119
10,912
Agianst my better judgment I’m going to wade into the swamp. Why are “we” better off not having dual boot option. “You” may feel you are better off for it because it doesn’t spoil your pure iPad world, but for those users willing to accept the compromises of poor touch capabilities for having an ultra-modern, ultra-portable MacBook when we need it, why shouldn’t we get that? Why should Abazigal and ericwn determine what me and exoticSpice have to live with? Let ME make that choice, not you (or Apple)...
I am not sure where you’re getting the idea that I want to determine what you should or should not be able to have in terms of functionality. I’m simply guessI g that their marketing department shot the idea down in no time.
 
Last edited:

Violet_Antelope

macrumors regular
Nov 14, 2020
102
158
But that’s the thing… this task could have probably been completed on the iPad with some additional work on your part. Granted, the task is much easier and perhaps quicker on the Mac.

You might not have an HP Printer, so… it might be irrelevant to suggest. But the HP app have quite a bit of tools to provide the user more options when it comes to printing. I’m fully aware that when it comes to printing the iPad software is limited, I tend to print via the HP app.
Thanks, I do understand that - it's an Epson, and yes, that is more limited than HP I know, but the printer itself is better (Ecotank). But in general I do change a lot of specific printer settings, and *for my usage* I've never found an app that can handle it. HP may have improved since I last used theirs about 4 years ago. But there's also the point that doing these things requires additional software downloads on the iPad, free or paid, whereas on the Mac it's all built in. I find the same with TextEdit. I use it heavily on the Mac for simple documents, and haven't found a good alternative on the iPad - one (cheap I admit) paid app allows me to edit them but makes it really hard to keep the original documents and edited ones straight because it saves them as new documents. Why Apple couldn't just build in TextEdit I truly have no idea.
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
20,396
23,901
Singapore
Agianst my better judgment I’m going to wade into the swamp. Why are “we” better off not having dual boot option. “You” may feel you are better off for it because it doesn’t spoil your pure iPad world, but for those users willing to accept the compromises of poor touch capabilities for having an ultra-modern, ultra-portable MacBook when we need it, why shouldn’t we get that? Why should Abazigal and ericwn determine what me and exoticSpice have to live with? Let ME make that choice, not you (or Apple)...
The TL;DR is that it would run counter to the very essence of what makes an iPad an iPad, and it would run counter to the very essence of what makes Apple uniquely Apple. The day Apple goes down that road is the day Apple stops becoming a design company and turns into pretty much any other tech company out there.

It's the same reason I don't go insisting that my local Japanese restaurant start carrying French cuisine, reasoning that "diners don't have to order it if they don't like it". When I go into a Japanese restaurant, I expect a certain experience. I accept that the food and ambience is done a certain way for a certain reason, along with their decision to not serve certain types of food that doesn't match the theme of the restaurant.

To me, Apple has always been more than the products they sell. I like Apple because in my eyes, the company represents a belief and an ideal - that design needs to be the guiding element throughout a product's development timeline. It used to be be that design simply wasn’t important in the tech industry. The industry’s leaders created crappy software and crappy hardware, and PCs were these uninspiring beige boxes. Apple’s success totally upended the industry’s value system, and showed that design can matter in the mass market, where the end user is the customer and gets to vote with their wallet.

Almost all of Apple’s competitors value design more today than they did a decade ago: Microsoft, Google, Samsung — all of them, and we are (mostly) better off for it.

IMO, design is what sets Apple apart from the competition. Allowing an iPad to run iPadOS may work from a purely engineering perspective (and I agree that there really is little technical reason why it shouldn't work), but Apple isn't an engineering-led company, and I feel there are some things they simply shouldn't do, because it goes against the basic tenets of design, where as Apple designers call the shots, and search for and having technology made to serve the product experience, not engineers excited about about new hot tech and trying to turn it into a product.
 

InlawBiker

macrumors 6502
Apr 6, 2007
284
36
I tried to replace a laptop with an iPad but for me it was a no-go. But I did find the iPad compliments my Windows laptop very well. I’m holding on to Windows for my 370 game library on Steam. Using the iPad now to surf and type using MX Keys wireless keyboard and mouse. It’s really helpful to have access to my Apple cloud without using my phone - Notes, messages, I even use Pages quite a bit. I use it to cull photos on the road and do basic edits on raw files as well.

Besides all that, most of Apple’s laptops are really expensive for what you get. An IPad tends to be a good value though.
 

Zest28

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2022
2,586
3,944
The iPad Pro replaces the M2 MBA that I was going to buy no problem.

It is not like I was going to do crazy things on the M2 MBA in the first place with it being a travel device.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.