iPad as a laptop replacement

[Digitalguy]

The TL;DR is that it would run counter to the very essence of what makes an iPad an iPad, and it would run counter to the very essence of what makes Apple uniquely Apple. The day Apple goes down that road is the day Apple stops becoming a design company and turns into pretty much any other tech company out there.

It's the same reason I don't go insisting that my local Japanese restaurant start carrying French cuisine, reasoning that "diners don't have to order it if they don't like it". When I go into a Japanese restaurant, I expect a certain experience. I accept that the food and ambience is done a certain way for a certain reason, along with their decision to not serve certain types of food that doesn't match the theme of the restaurant.

To me, Apple has always been more than the products they sell. I like Apple because in my eyes, the company represents a belief and an ideal - that design needs to be the guiding element throughout a product's development timeline. It used to be be that design simply wasn’t important in the tech industry. The industry’s leaders created crappy software and crappy hardware, and PCs were these uninspiring beige boxes. Apple’s success totally upended the industry’s value system, and showed that design can matter in the mass market, where the end user is the customer and gets to vote with their wallet.

Almost all of Apple’s competitors value design more today than they did a decade ago: Microsoft, Google, Samsung — all of them, and we are (mostly) better off for it.

IMO, design is what sets Apple apart from the competition. Allowing an iPad to run iPadOS may work from a purely engineering perspective (and I agree that there really is little technical reason why it shouldn't work), but Apple isn't an engineering-led company, and I feel there are some things they simply shouldn't do, because it goes against the basic tenets of design, where as Apple designers call the shots, and search for and having technology made to serve the product experience, not engineers excited about about new hot tech and trying to turn it into a product.

Oh man... this is the same logic that some Apple apologists use to say that the Mac is better without Bootcamp because Windows design sucks. And is the vision of the amazing Apple that does not compromise, that does always what's best for their customers, while the truth is much more likely that it's just a marketing decision to boost overall revenues...

 

[Ludatyk]

Oh man... this is the same logic that some Apple apologists use to say that the Mac is better without Bootcamp because Windows design sucks. And is the vision of the amazing Apple that does not compromise, that does always what's best for their customers, while the truth is much more likely that it's just a marketing decision to boost overall revenues...

Although I understand what you are going for… but how would omitting bootcamp from their latest Macs boost overall revenue?

If anything it would hinder sales of the latest Mac since it’s without boot camp, right? Don’t get me wrong… I don’t have a horse in the race… I like both Windows and macOS. If Apple decides to put bootcamp on iPadOS or macOS… I’m all for it. I like being part of various OSs… I use Microsoft (Windows 11), Apple (iPadOS) and Google (Android).

 

[Digitalguy]

Although I understand what you are going for… but how would omitting bootcamp from their latest Macs boost overall revenue?

If anything it would hinder sales of the latest Mac since it’s without boot camp, right? Don’t get me wrong… I don’t have a horse in the race… I like both Windows and macOS. If Apple decides to put bootcamp on iPadOS or macOS… I’m all for it. I like being part of various OSs… I use Microsoft (Windows 11), Apple (iPadOS) and Google (Android).

You misunderstood what I said. When I said boost overall revenues I was referring to the post I quoted, not to the analogy I made, where it is said that allowing MacOS dual boot on an iPad, while technically possible, would go against Apple design. This sound very much like fanboy speech. The truth is, as I said, that the reason is much more likely to protect MacBook sales and App store sales. By the way, just like bootcamp is strength of MacOS, not a weakness, as you said, MacOS dual boot would boost iPad sales, Apple knows it. But they also know that they would probably lose money overall with all those that would go iPad only and with people using non store app (no 30% cut) on iPad via MacOS...

 

[eltoslightfoot]

You misunderstood what I said. When I said boost overall revenues I was referring to the post I quoted, not to the analogy I made, where it is said that allowing MacOS dual boot on an iPad, while technically possible, would go against Apple design. This sound very much like fanboy speech. The truth is, as I said, that the reason is much more likely to protect MacBook sales and App store sales. By the way, just like bootcamp is strength of MacOS, not a weakness, as you said, MacOS dual boot would boost iPad sales, Apple knows it. But they also know that they would probably lose money overall with all those that would go iPad only and with people using non store app (no 30% cut) on iPad via MacOS...

I also think it is a philosophical difference. iPadOS is much more locked down and restricted in general. They don’t want to mix the two differing schools-of-thought.

Also they don’t want to include touch in macOS as a design philosophy. I think it really is that simple.

 

[Digitalguy]

I also think it is a philosophical difference. iPadOS is much more locked down and restricted in general. They don’t want to mix the two differing schools-of-thought.

Also they don’t want to include touch in macOS as a design philosophy. I think it really is that simple.

That this is part of it, sure. That this is "that simple", absolutely not. Money is also a factor, and a big one, in keeping the 2 product lines separate.

 

[Abazigal]

That this is part of it, sure. That this is "that simple", absolutely not. Money is also a factor, and a big one, in keeping the 2 product lines separate.

Of course more money is always welcome, but I don't think that's the main driving factor.

It's like how the iPhone has never supported expandable storage. Sure, one can argue that Apple profits from upselling iPhone models with more storage, but the real reason (I believe) is that Apple designers didn't want to compromise the unibody design of the iPhone, and having a single monolithic storage option is more streamlined and less confusing for the consumer.

Same here. I agree that Apple probably makes more money by getting people to buy both an iPad and a Mac, but at the same time, I feel they have made getting both a great value proposition by letting each keep their own unique selling points. The Mac runs full macOS, and it is this "heaviness" that allows the iPad to remain as light as it is. In other words, the iPad doesn't need to take on the full suite of responsibilities (and the burden) of a Mac because there is already the Mac for that.

And by not needing to emulate a Mac, the iPad is free to be the truest expression of a giant touchscreen that it can be. Which, amongst other things, means not supporting an OS that isn't optimised for touch and direct input because at the end of the day, not everyone with an iPad necessarily has a magic keyboard or wants to connect a bluetooth keyboard and mouse to it.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Of course more money is always welcome, but I don't think that's the main driving factor.

It's like how the iPhone has never supported expandable storage. Sure, one can argue that Apple profits from upselling iPhone models with more storage, but the real reason (I believe) is that Apple designers didn't want to compromise the unibody design of the iPhone, and having a single monolithic storage option is more streamlined and less confusing for the consumer.

Same here. I agree that Apple probably makes more money by getting people to buy both an iPad and a Mac, but at the same time, I feel they have made getting both a great value proposition by letting each keep their own unique selling points. The Mac runs full macOS, and it is this "heaviness" that allows the iPad to remain as light as it is. In other words, the iPad doesn't need to take on the full suite of responsibilities (and the burden) of a Mac because there is already the Mac for that.

And by not needing to emulate a Mac, the iPad is free to be the truest expression of a giant touchscreen that it can be. Which, amongst other things, means not supporting an OS that isn't optimised for touch and direct input because at the end of the day, not everyone with an iPad necessarily has a magic keyboard or wants to connect a bluetooth keyboard and mouse to it.

Thank you. That was a much better way of saying what I was trying to say about the philosophies behind the separation of mac and ipad...

 

[Slartibart]

….but the real reason (I believe) is that Apple designers didn't want to compromise the unibody design of the iPhone, and having a single monolithic storage option is more streamlined and less confusing for the consumer…

This is directly from a marketing brochure, right? 😁
I doubt that people getting confused by having the option to e.g. insert a storage card into their phone - I doubt it, because the majority manages nano-/micro-/SIM cards and there are plenty of examples out there which demonstrate that storage can be added in parallel via the same tray, therefore “not compromising the unibody design”, right? 🤓
And to anticipate some “confusion for the user about having 2 different physical storage media in the same device” - if anything Apple has shown in iOS/iPadOS that they are able to shape the whole user experience minimising confusion (some might want to discuss this, but that’s something for another thread, isn’t it? 😀), they are probably able to deal with user added, quasi non-removable storage media and provide a plain and simple user experience. I am quite sure. YMMV. 😎

EDIT: just checked, Apple could probably extend APFS to create a container over two disks - it’s possible already for APFS FusionLCs. And masking it from the user… well, again: it’s Apple. 🤜🤛😃

 

[Zest28]

I also think it is a philosophical difference. iPadOS is much more locked down and restricted in general. They don’t want to mix the two differing schools-of-thought.

Also they don’t want to include touch in macOS as a design philosophy. I think it really is that simple.

Indeed. I believe Tim Cook has said that Mac is also less secure for this reason. And I have to agree with him.

Laptops and iPads are 2 seperate devices though. But for some people, the iPad Pro could replace a laptop (if they for example only check e-mails, facebook, youtube and stuff like that).

 

[Slartibart]

Indeed. I believe Tim Cook has said that Mac is also less secure for this reason. And I have to agree with him.

Just for the protocol: HairForceOne communicated that (TC might have reiterated it in follow-ups though).

But for some people, the iPad Pro could replace a laptop (if they for example only check e-mails, facebook, youtube and stuff like that).

This, my dear @Zest28, posted here represents not only adding fuel to the fire but pointing - quite casual - a big, running leaf blower towards it. 😎

 

[Digitalguy]

Of course more money is always welcome, but I don't think that's the main driving factor.

It's like how the iPhone has never supported expandable storage. Sure, one can argue that Apple profits from upselling iPhone models with more storage, but the real reason (I believe) is that Apple designers didn't want to compromise the unibody design of the iPhone, and having a single monolithic storage option is more streamlined and less confusing for the consumer.

Same here. I agree that Apple probably makes more money by getting people to buy both an iPad and a Mac, but at the same time, I feel they have made getting both a great value proposition by letting each keep their own unique selling points. The Mac runs full macOS, and it is this "heaviness" that allows the iPad to remain as light as it is. In other words, the iPad doesn't need to take on the full suite of responsibilities (and the burden) of a Mac because there is already the Mac for that.

And by not needing to emulate a Mac, the iPad is free to be the truest expression of a giant touchscreen that it can be. Which, amongst other things, means not supporting an OS that isn't optimised for touch and direct input because at the end of the day, not everyone with an iPad necessarily has a magic keyboard or wants to connect a bluetooth keyboard and mouse to it.

We have very different views, about this and it's fine, let's agree to disagree...
I have to admit, at least you post made me smile

 

[Unregistered 4U]

is that Apple designers didn't want to compromise the unibody design of the iPhone, and having a single monolithic storage option is more streamlined and less confusing for the consumer.

The lack of storage configuration was a big part of getting record companies to sign on to the vision of downloadable music for the iPod (you couldn’t easily download music to the device, move that to external storage then give it to someone else). It also greatly simplified the FairPlay implementation as more onerous DRM wasn’t required. As a result of needing iPod features on the iPhone, it was a no-brainer to just bring forward what worked on the iPod.

This is one of those cases where what the big content providers wanted overruled what consumers wanted and, for me and millions of others, it was a trade off that was worth it.

 

[teh_hunterer]

I give up. After years of daily use of the iPad/iPad Pro, as my main device when I can, following every update that promises more functionality, following games and other apps that support mouse and keyboard, using the iPadOS16 beta with Stage Manager... I've realised that the iPad is just not going to be a comparable experience to the Mac for at least a few years. At least a few years.

It's not just that Stage Manager sucks, and points to a continual future of substandard window management and external monitor support, it's also that the software and apps are just not catching up. And when you've been enthusiastically using a device where it seems like better functionality and apps are just around the corner, eventually the years pile up and you realise it's not going to happen on the timeline you've been expecting.

There are too many disappointments. Take Minecraft for example, which just got mouse and keyboard support. How exciting. Game boots up, it seems great, seems like the future of gaming parity on the iPad. It almost doesn't feel real, playing a real game with mouse and keyboard on iPad. But after a couple hours of play, that world starts to lag like hell, on the M1 iPad Pro. Look it up, heaps of people have the same issue. Load up the Mac version on my 14" MacBook Pro and I'm blown away by just how much smoother it is. Not because the MacBook Pro 14" is more powerful (though it is), but because once again, the Mac has the real version of the game that works better. There is no way the experience on the iPad can be tolerated when you compare them side by side. If these issues were present on the Mac version, it would have been fixed long ago, but with the iPad version, it's just an afterthought, and it could be untold months before they fix it, if they fix it at all.

The iPad version of any cross platform app or game is pretty much always the worst version of it.

The comparison between the iPad and the Mac used to be quite different. The iPad was futuristic and fantastical compared to the 13" Intel MacBook Pro that was far too hot, far too loud, far too slow, and inefficient. I preferred to use my iPad because of how much the MacBook sucked. Now with Apple Silicon, you get the advantages of Mac software combined with the advantages of Apple Silicon. One of the main advantages of the iPad is no longer there. You don't even get a faster display on the iPad Pro anymore, now that the 14" and 16" MacBook Pros have Pro Motion.

It has been a couple months since I got the 14" MacBook Pro, and honestly I've pretty much stopped using the iPad Pro in any situation where I could use the MacBook. I now use the iPad purely as a tablet. And it's a great tablet. And I feel a lot happier now that I'm not putting up with so much bull and playing this endless waiting game for the iPad to become something more than it currently is.

I'm still interested in how the iPad goes, and I'll probably always have one, but I'm certainly not waiting with bated breath for it to suddenly become this pro device that can replace everything else. The hardware is already there - the software and apps (both first and third party) are years away, and I'm done waiting.

 

[Ludatyk]

It has been a couple months since I got the 14" MacBook Pro, and honestly I've pretty much stopped using the iPad Pro in any situation where I could use the MacBook. I now use the iPad purely as a tablet. And it's a great tablet. And I feel a lot happier now that I'm not putting up with so much bull and playing this endless waiting game for the iPad to become something more than it currently is.

Because in essence you are more of a Mac user than an iPad one and that's perfectly okay. The fact you like to game with a keyboard and mouse clearly explains that.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Because in essence you are more of a Mac user than an iPad one and that's perfectly okay. The fact you like to game with a keyboard and mouse clearly explains that.

Anyone coming from a Mac is going to have a challenge adopting an iPad if their mind isn’t ready for it, same as folks coming from an Apple II had a real hard time with a Mac, especially in the years where all the “useful” software was getting produced for the better selling Apple II. Same could be said even for OS9/OSX. If the mindset is ”this is the way I get things done” and something in that way is missing or different elsewhere, there are folks for which it’ll never click. And that’s fine, it could be said that Apple’s still making Macs for those who just don’t “get” the iPad.

Those that start first with the iPad will of course have a better go of it. They’ve learned touch from the start and navigate the UI nimbly. They don’t consider things “missing” because they’ve never tried to do things quite that way. And, because they’re all in on the interface, they’re better able to find effective ways to do all the things they consider important enough to do. Right now, there’s someone out there that can not envision how anyone gets anything done without a desktop. Just because those numbers decrease doesn’t mean that they will EVER go to zero, but Macs are and will likely remain a small corner of the computing universe.

 

[teh_hunterer]

Because in essence you are more of a Mac user than an iPad one and that's perfectly okay. The fact you like to game with a keyboard and mouse clearly explains that.

No. I used the iPad as a main device for at least two years. You can't just explain away anyone who's losing patience with the iPad as some sort of other category of user whose opinion doesn't matter.

 

[teh_hunterer]

Anyone coming from a Mac is going to have a challenge adopting an iPad if their mind isn’t ready for it, same as folks coming from an Apple II had a real hard time with a Mac, especially in the years where all the “useful” software was getting produced for the better selling Apple II. Same could be said even for OS9/OSX. If the mindset is ”this is the way I get things done” and something in that way is missing or different elsewhere, there are folks for which it’ll never click. And that’s fine, it could be said that Apple’s still making Macs for those who just don’t “get” the iPad.

Those that start first with the iPad will of course have a better go of it. They’ve learned touch from the start and navigate the UI nimbly. They don’t consider things “missing” because they’ve never tried to do things quite that way. And, because they’re all in on the interface, they’re better able to find effective ways to do all the things they consider important enough to do. Right now, there’s someone out there that can not envision how anyone gets anything done without a desktop. Just because those numbers decrease doesn’t mean that they will EVER go to zero, but Macs are and will likely remain a small corner of the computing universe.

Except the problems I have with the iPad are problems. The fact that Apple is trying to figure out external display support and window management and failing at it. The fact that Apple has added gamepad support and mouse and keyboard support and barely any apps make proper use of it. The fact that developers don't bother to make the iPad version of their app/game as good as the PC/console version. That has nothing to do with me.

I don't have a problem with the fundamentals of the iPad - the probelm is the iPad and its apps and software are failing at the things it's trying to be.

And in 5 years most of these things probably won't be a problem anymore, and the iPad will be much more the device it could be. If the iPad gets these things right, am I still fundamentally the wrong type of user to you? How could I have ever passed your purity test? Am I allowed to use the iPad as a main device again if these problems are solved?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Except the problems I have with the iPad are problems. The fact that Apple is trying to figure out external display support and window management and failing at it. The fact that Apple has added gamepad support and mouse and keyboard support and barely any apps make proper use of it. The fact that developers don't bother to make the iPad version of their app/game as good as the PC/console version. That has nothing to do with me.

Quick example… Let’s just say I’m an iPad user, been using an iPad since I was 4 so my entire computing life has been on an iPad.
1) I care little about external display support. For as long as I’ve had it, I’ve never connected it to an external display and the idea of connecting it to an external display seems kinda silly as I can’t touch the external display.
2) I’ve been playing using the touch joysticks on the screen ever since they were a thing and have never considered having to carry around a gamepad to be able to play my games. It’d actually be kinda limiting.
3) Considering I don’t have that PC/Console with me when I decide to take a little pause and play a game on my iPad, it doesn’t bother me that those versions are better, I can’t play them on my iPad. And, it’s possible my favorite game is some mobile title that hasn’t made the jump to PC/Console, so I doubly wouldn’t care that some cross platform title isn’t as good on the iPad… I’m not playing it!

It does have to do with you and your expectations of a computing device, and that’s part of what I was referring to regarding folks having a hard time. I’ve read stories of folks going having a REALLY hard time OS9/OSX. All their years and years and years of tips, tricks, troubleshooting, undone with one fell swoop. Because OSX didn’t really do things the same way, didn’t have the same games, didn’t have the same interface, some folks never felt comfortable with OSX and kept a nice friendly OS9 system around in order to REALLY get things done. I don’t see much different with the iPad. Those who learned it from the start are like “COOOL” and are simply oblivious to the things that OS9 could do that X couldn’t. Some things eventually came, some never did.

And in 5 years most of these things probably won't be a problem anymore, and the iPad will be much more the device it could be. If the iPad gets these things right, am I still fundamentally the wrong type of user to you? How could I have ever passed your purity test? Am I allowed to use the iPad as a main device again if these problems are solved?

I don’t have a purity test. Every individual has their own evaluation of what’s right for them. For some, they dropped the Mac, went to the iPad and took to it like a fish to water. Some dropped the Mac… and picked it right back up! Might they pick them up in the future? Possibly, there’s nothing that says it absolutely cannot happen.

Either way, as long Apple still makes Macs, they consider either to be a valid way to experience Mac hardware. And, the next thing that comes along, I guarantee that there will be iPad users that, INVARIABLY will not be able to deal with the changes and will always prefer the iPad. Not everyone can jump across these change points, for now, for those that can, Apple makes the iPad.

 

[Ludatyk]

No. I used the iPad as a main device for at least two years. You can't just explain away anyone who's losing patience with the iPad as some sort of other category of user whose opinion doesn't matter.

Just because you used the iPad as your main device doesn’t mean that your philosophy align with it. The way you explain your frustrations is due to the fact you are more of a Mac user.

The fact that Apple is trying to figure out external display support and window management and failing at it.

Huh? They just added external display support and the ironic part… it’s still in beta.

The fact that Apple has added gamepad support and mouse and keyboard support and barely any apps make proper use of it.

And that’s the point I’m making… the iPad core functionality is being a touch input device while it appears you prefer mouse and keyboard support. And I think you’re exaggerating mentioning there’s barely any apps with gamepad support for the iPad, but mouse and keyboard support… you better off going with a Mac.

If the iPad gets these things right, am I still fundamentally the wrong type of user to you? How could I have ever passed your purity test? Am I allowed to use the iPad as a main device again if these problems are solved?

Purity test? Huh? I’m only responding to your frustrations. And I’m only going by the words you describe in what the iPad lacks…. I think having a Mac is more suited for you.

Those that start first with the iPad will of course have a better go of it. They’ve learned touch from the start and navigate the UI nimbly. They don’t consider things “missing” because they’ve never tried to do things quite that way. And, because they’re all in on the interface, they’re better able to find effective ways to do all the things they consider important enough to do. Right now, there’s someone out there that can not envision how anyone gets anything done without a desktop. Just because those numbers decrease doesn’t mean that they will EVER go to zero, but Macs are and will likely remain a small corner of the computing universe.

Um.. I choose the iPad because it’s refreshing. The ability to go from touch input to mouse and keyboard is interesting for me. Being able to pick up the iPad… use the Apple Pencil to get some notes down or tweak some design. And when it comes down to traveling... having cellular capability which means I’m always connected.

Then docking it to the Magic Keyboard to navigate that way. And with the introduction of Stage Manager… I’m able to dock it to a larger screen to navigate that way. Just the versatility an iPad holds is incredible. Don’t get me wrong…. Surface is capable of this as well, but the UI of iPadOS makes it a better device to go through those transitions.

 

[teh_hunterer]

Just because you used the iPad as your main device doesn’t mean that your philosophy align with it. The way you explain your frustrations is due to the fact you are more of a Mac user.

You don't get to decide who is and isn't an iPad user, and it's somewhat arrogant of you to presume that.

Purity test? Huh?

I wasn't talking to you.

And that’s the point I’m making… the iPad core functionality is being a touch input device while it appears you prefer mouse and keyboard support. And I think you’re exaggerating mentioning there’s barely any apps with gamepad support for the iPad, but mouse and keyboard support

Let go of your attachment to what the iPad was (a touch only device) and look at what it could be. Apple isn't adding gamepad support and mouse and keyboard support, and APIs for developers to make apps with gamepad support and mouse and keyboard support for no reason. They're not putting in extended display support and memory swap for no reason.

There are barely any games that do gamepad support properly, and barely any games that do keyboard and mouse support properly. This will change over time. You're essentially saying I'm wrong for wanting to use the iPad this way in 2022. If the situation is much better in 2026, will I be wrong for using the iPad that way then? Is Apple wrong for putting these features in and encouraging developers to support them? Sounds like you're the one with the issue with Apple's philosophy behind the iPad.

 

[teh_hunterer]

It does have to do with you and your expectations of a computing device, and that’s part of what I was referring to regarding folks having a hard time.

I don’t have a purity test. Every individual has their own evaluation of what’s right for them. For some, they dropped the Mac, went to the iPad and took to it like a fish to water. Some dropped the Mac… and picked it right back up! Might they pick them up in the future? Possibly, there’s nothing that says it absolutely cannot happen.

Either way, as long Apple still makes Macs, they consider either to be a valid way to experience Mac hardware. And, the next thing that comes along, I guarantee that there will be iPad users that, INVARIABLY will not be able to deal with the changes and will always prefer the iPad. Not everyone can jump across these change points, for now, for those that can, Apple makes the iPad.

Here's what it comes down to. Apple has put in gamepad support, mouse and keyboard support, and extended display support. These things are actually in the iPad right now - but in each case they're not yet where they should be.

Be honest and admit that most games that should, and probably will eventually have gamepad and mouse and keyboard support, don't right now. These apps were released before Apple added that functionality and released those APIs. These apps don't work this way because the core philosophy of the iPad is different to the Mac, they don't work this way because they haven't been updated yet, and were released before that functionality was possible.

I'm not having a go at the core philosophy of the iPad, I'm just annoyed that this is taking more time than I'd like.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Anyone coming from a Mac is going to have a challenge adopting an iPad if their mind isn’t ready for it, same as folks coming from an Apple II had a real hard time with a Mac, especially in the years where all the “useful” software was getting produced for the better selling Apple II. Same could be said even for OS9/OSX. If the mindset is ”this is the way I get things done” and something in that way is missing or different elsewhere, there are folks for which it’ll never click. And that’s fine, it could be said that Apple’s still making Macs for those who just don’t “get” the iPad.

Those that start first with the iPad will of course have a better go of it. They’ve learned touch from the start and navigate the UI nimbly. They don’t consider things “missing” because they’ve never tried to do things quite that way. And, because they’re all in on the interface, they’re better able to find effective ways to do all the things they consider important enough to do. Right now, there’s someone out there that can not envision how anyone gets anything done without a desktop. Just because those numbers decrease doesn’t mean that they will EVER go to zero, but Macs are and will likely remain a small corner of the computing universe.

First, my daughter is exactly the person you describe. Is an artist and practically lives on her iPad. Until I gave her a MBP M1, now she uses both, but is just fine using the mac for mac things.

Second, I was alive back when the changeover to Mac happened from Apple IIe and the like. It was AWESOME. Everyone wanted to switch within months. Because the Mac could do literally everything the Apple II line could do and then it could do a bunch more stuff on top of that. IPadOS is literally not like that. There are all kinds of things it can't do as well as a Mac. So it really is Apples to Oranges.

 

[Ludatyk]

You don't get to decide who is and isn't an iPad user, and it's somewhat arrogant of you to presume that.

You clearly frustrated with the iPad and you spoke highly of the Mac… am I missing anything?

There are barely any games that do gamepad support properly, and barely any games that do keyboard and mouse support properly. This will change over time. You're essentially saying I'm wrong for wanting to use the iPad this way in 2022. If the situation is much better in 2026, will I be wrong for using the iPad that way then? Is Apple wrong for putting these features in and encouraging developers to support them? Sounds like you're the one with the issue with Apple's philosophy behind the iPad.

Apple has had gamepad support since iOS 7 and you’re telling me theres barely any games, I disagree. But I’m not saying you’re wrong to use the iPad as a gaming device. But in terms of keyboard and mouse… I don’t believe the iPad is suited for it.

 

[teh_hunterer]

You clearly frustrated with the iPad and you spoke highly of the Mac… am I missing anything?

Yes, you missed every single point I just made. And if this is the level of analysis you're stuck at, well, OK...

Apple has had gamepad support since iOS 7 and you’re telling me theres barely any games, I disagree. But I’m not saying you’re wrong to use the iPad as a gaming device. But in terms of keyboard and mouse… I don’t believe the iPad is suited for it.

OK, if you don't believe the iPad is suited for it, you're the one who is taking issue with Apple's design philosophy behind the iPad, because they're adding these features in and providing APIs for developers to support them in their apps.

As for apps with proper gamepad support and proper mouse and keyboard support, these are few and far between. Many games only support MFI gamepads and not PlayStation and Xbox controllers. These use different APIs, and so older games from the iOS7 games won't work with standard gamepads today, unless they've been updated. Case in point, KOTOR doesn't work properly with modern gamepads as it was released many years ago, yet KOTOR 2 only works properly with modern gamepads and won't work with MFI gamepads as it was released a couple years ago.

There are games that practically beg for gamepad support, yet lack it, or implement it in a weird way that isn't at parity with the console versions - Stardew Valley is a prime example, as it has gamepad support but is janky as hell.

There are games that practically beg for mouse and keyboard support, yet lack it - Terraria, Stardew Valley, FTL, list goes on. Minecraft was one of these games, but just a week or so ago was updated to support it. See what I mean about this being a function of time rather than what the iPad is and isn't at its core?

So again, in the next 5 years a lot of these apps and games are going to be updated with this support. The things lacking in the iPad aren't because I have a disconnect with what the iPad is and isn't at its core. It's a function of timing - these features are all new and they are being adopted very slowly.

 

[Ludatyk]

OK, if you don't believe the iPad is suited for it, you're the one who is taking issue with Apple's design philosophy behind the iPad, because they're adding these features in and providing APIs for developers to support them in their apps.

It's been about 2 years since Apple officially supported keyboard and mouse... And I'm not taking issue with Apple's design philosophy because they are adding tools and features for developers to add value to their app, but it does take time for developers to implement those features.

So again, in the next 5 years a lot of these apps and games are going to be updated with this support. The things lacking in the iPad aren't because I have a disconnect with what the iPad is and isn't at its core. It's a function of timing - these features are all new and they are being adopted very slowly.

And if not, I'm curious... what then? My point is... if there's an operating system that supports the things you like doing why go against it.