iPad as a laptop replacement

[Kal Madda]

Is the surface much heavier than the 13” iPad?

I was actually just looking at Best Buy, and held a display model for the 13” M4 iPad Pro, the 11” M4 iPad Pro, the 13” iPad Air, and the latest Surface Pro. I’d say with the Magic Keyboard, the 13” M4 iPad Pro weighs about the same as the Surface Pro, but as a tablet without the case, the 13” iPad Pro feels significantly lighter than the Surface Pro, and is dramatically thinner. The 11” M4 iPad Pro actually feels only marginally lighter than the 13” M4 iPad Pro this go around with the major weight reduction on the 13”. I’d say even the heavier 13” iPad Air still feels lighter than the Surface Pro, and is still thinner by a substantial margin. The Surface Pro just feels very chunky in my opinion. It’s substantially thicker than most tablets, and it feels pretty heavy. The difference here is that the Magic Keyboard Case adds like half of the weight of the total combo when both are used together, which both add up to about exactly the same weight as a MacBook Air. But shed the Magic Keyboard Case, and the 13” iPad Pro is significantly lighter. With the Surface Pro, most of that weight is just the tablet itself. The tablet itself is heavy, and the keyboard case for it doesn’t add that much weight. So if you’re carrying them with a keyboard case, they’re fairly even in weight, but when you shed the cover and use it as a tablet, the 13” iPad Pro feels significantly lighter and is much thinner, while shedding the case on the Surface Pro doesn’t shed that much weight. That’s at least my experience from trying out some display models. 👍🏻

PS, I was actually shocked by how thick the Surface Pro is, even with the Qualcomm ARM chips. It doesn’t seem to be much thinner than a whole MacBook Air, especially with the keyboard cover, it’s probably actually thicker. And most of that thickness is the tablet itself. It’s just insanely thick for a tablet in my opinion.

 

[sparksd]

I was actually just looking at Best Buy, and held a display model for the 13” M4 iPad Pro, the 11” M4 iPad Pro, the 13” iPad Air, and the latest Surface Pro. I’d say with the Magic Keyboard, the 13” M4 iPad Pro weighs about the same as the Surface Pro, but as a tablet without the case, the 13” iPad Pro feels significantly lighter than the Surface Pro, and is dramatically thinner. The 11” M4 iPad Pro actually feels only marginally lighter than the 13” M4 iPad Pro this go around with the major weight reduction on the 13”. I’d say even the heavier 13” iPad Air still feels lighter than the Surface Pro, and is still thinner by a substantial margin. The Surface Pro just feels very chunky in my opinion. It’s substantially thicker than most tablets, and it feels pretty heavy. The difference here is that the Magic Keyboard Case adds like half of the weight of the total combo when both are used together, which both add up to about exactly the same weight as a MacBook Air. But shed the Magic Keyboard Case, and the 13” iPad Pro is significantly lighter. With the Surface Pro, most of that weight is just the tablet itself. The tablet itself is heavy, and the keyboard case for it doesn’t add that much weight. So if you’re carrying them with a keyboard case, they’re fairly even in weight, but when you shed the cover and use it as a tablet, the 13” iPad Pro feels significantly lighter and is much thinner, while shedding the case on the Surface Pro doesn’t shed that much weight. That’s at least my experience from trying out some display models. 👍🏻

PS, I was actually shocked by how thick the Surface Pro is, even with the Qualcomm ARM chips. It doesn’t seem to be much thinner than a whole MacBook Air, especially with the keyboard cover, it’s probably actually thicker. And most of that thickness is the tablet itself. It’s just insanely thick for a tablet in my opinion.

Interesting. My 13" Pro + keyboard is decidedly thicker than my SP7 + keyboard. I found this -

Edit: incorrect size/weight info deleted

 

[Beefbowl]

Interesting. My 13" Pro + keyboard is decidedly thicker than my SP7 + keyboard. I found this -

View attachment 2494562

It may be thicker, but I have trouble envisioning any case that would make the ipp over an inch thick.

 

[sparksd]

It may be thicker, but I have trouble envisioning any case that would make the ipp over an inch thick.

Yeah, that's definitely off. I lay the closed SP7 + keyboard edge-to-edge with the 13" Pro + MKB and the iPad duo is slightly thicker. I find the two sets to be so close in overall size and weight as to be negligible in real use. To put it another way, size and weight are a zero factor in comparing the two for me.

 

[Kal Madda]

Yeah, that's definitely off. I lay the closed SP7 + keyboard edge-to-edge with the 13" Pro + MKB and the iPad duo is slightly thicker. I find the two sets to be so close in overall size and weight as to be negligible in real use. To put it another way, size and weight are a zero factor in comparing the two for me.

I’m saying that just the iPad vs just the Surface Pro without the case, the Surface Pro looks significantly thicker than the iPad. The Magic Keyboard Case more than doubles the thickness of the iPad, because the base of the case is almost as thick as the iPad, and then the magnetic backing adds some more thickness as well. The Type Cover on the Surface Pro doesn’t. So if they’re both about equal thickness with the covers, without the covers, the Surface Pro is thicker. So when using both as a tablet, the Surface Pro is thicker than the iPad. That’s all I’m pointing out.

And I’m not saying nobody should use the Surface Pro or anything, just pointing out the size difference. And in my opinion, the Surface Pro is not a great tablet because it’s just a laptop pretending to be a tablet. But again, that’s my opinion. I definitely agree though that both are about same size and weight with the respective keyboard case.

 

[Kal Madda]

Interesting. My 13" Pro + keyboard is decidedly thicker than my SP7 + keyboard. I found this -

View attachment 2494562

As someone else pointed out, that thickness is obviously wrong on the iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard.

 

[sparksd]

As someone else pointed out, that thickness is obviously wrong on the iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard.

Yes, as I noted in my response above.

As for the SP as a tablet, I'd call it so-so. It's a different experience you get used to in use.

 

[It’s always something]

Interesting. My 13" Pro + keyboard is decidedly thicker than my SP7 + keyboard. I found this -

View attachment 2494562

The chart says Surface Pro 11. Isn’t that different from the SP7? I’m not at all familiar with Microsoft’s naming conventions.

 

[sparksd]

The chart says Surface Pro 11. Isn’t that different from the SP7? I’m not at all familiar with Microsoft’s naming conventions.

The chart is correct. The 11 is the latest edition - what you would see in the store. I own an earlier edition, the 7.

 

[sparksd]

Yes, as I noted in my response above.

As for the SP as a tablet, I'd call it so-so. It's a different experience you get used to in use.

Just to add to this: I would not buy another 2-in-1 laptop after this; I would opt for a standard form factor. They are pricier and while I like Windows - my desktop is Win11 - I prefer the iPad tablet experience and in fact, the M4 13" has supplanted the laptop for the vast majority of my mobile usage. I feel comfortable leaving the laptop at home and using the 13" + MKB on the road.

 

[537635]

Interesting. My 13" Pro + keyboard is decidedly thicker than my SP7 + keyboard. I found this -

View attachment 2494562

This is completely wrong, also the weight. I believe below are the correct numbers.

11'' M4 iPad Pro: 1,026g
13″ M3 MacBook Air: 1,227g
13″ M4 iPad Pro: 1,247g
13″ M2 iPad Pro: 1,398g
14″ M3 Max MacBook Pro: 1,607g


(all iPads with their corresponding Magic Keyboards)

 

[Beefbowl]

I owned a Surface Pro 8 and really liked it, especially the screen. They really are solid devices and have a premium feeling that I don’t get from a lot of Windows devices. I sold it on because I wanted to replace it with an ARM-based Windows tablet, but haven’t gotten around to that yet.

My only real gripe with the Surface tablets is that they’re the opposite of an iPad in that you CAN get all the full-featured desktop software and theoretically do the same work as you would on a “real” computer, but the hardware doesn’t feel up to heavy tasks, while the iPad has a monster of a processor / GPU combo but often gets trimmed-down versions of software. I preferred the Surface keyboard cover when I had a desk to work on but the Magic Keyboard is the winner when I wanted to work with it on my lap.

Though the one area where the surface unequivocally has the edge is that you get a real mouse pointer when using a mouse.

 

[Kal Madda]

I owned a Surface Pro 8 and really liked it, especially the screen. They really are solid devices and have a premium feeling that I don’t get from a lot of Windows devices. I sold it on because I wanted to replace it with an ARM-based Windows tablet, but haven’t gotten around to that yet.

My only real gripe with the Surface tablets is that they’re the opposite of an iPad in that you CAN get all the full-featured desktop software and theoretically do the same work as you would on a “real” computer, but the hardware doesn’t feel up to heavy tasks, while the iPad has a monster of a processor / GPU combo but often gets trimmed-down versions of software. I preferred the Surface keyboard cover when I had a desk to work on but the Magic Keyboard is the winner when I wanted to work with it on my lap.

Though the one area where the surface unequivocally has the edge is that you get a real mouse pointer when using a mouse.

I’m glad to hear that combo works well for you. 👍🏻. I think there are definitely some pluses to the Surface Pro for some people.

Personally, I think the fact the Surface Pro runs Windows or a desktop OS is both it’s biggest advantage for some, but also it’s biggest weakness. Nothing can really be fully optimized for tablet interactions, and apps are often hard to use without a stylus due to small UI buttons and elements. So Windows adds quite a bit utility for some workflows, but I think it also hurts the tablet experience and ease of use, touch interaction, etc. Not to say the Surface Pro is bad or anything, just I think that’s it’s one big pro and con wrapped up in one. 👍🏻

I personally prefer Apple’s approach. Rather than just slapping macOS onto a tablet, Apple can incorporate macOS features in iPadOS, but in a way that’s fully touch optimized. Some don’t like this approach and would rather Apple slap macOS on the iPad, I get it, but personally, I think this makes it the better overall experience. I can even comfortably multi-window apps on iPadOS without a connected mouse or stylus, because everything is fully optimized in Stage Manager for that use. I don’t have little individual windowing buttons to try to tap, I have one windowing button (the Multitasking Menu) which exposes a list of windowing options from which I can choose. It’s harder to completely burry an app window to where it’s hard to bring it back to surface without using a keyboard shortcut, because Stage Manager automatically pokes a bit of the window out under the other window so it’s easy to tap to bring back to the surface. And that’s just with Stage Manager alone. There are so many interactions in iPadOS that are so much better optimized for touch interactions in my opinion.

I think at this point, the biggest limit to the iPad’s utility isn’t iPadOS, but the more limited apps that some developers release. Things like the Microsoft Office apps lacking a bunch of features. And these aren’t due to iPadOS limitations or anything, often these lacking features are either because the developers want to create a multi-faceted system where you have to buy two softwares, or where you have to buy cloud storage and such, or they’re situations like with the Microsoft Office apps where I cynically suspect that Microsoft purposes to keep the iPadOS and Android versions of their Office apps hobbled so that people need to use a Surface Pro if they want a full functioning Microsoft Office experience on a tablet. Luckily though, I do see this shifting, a lot more developers are bringing full featured desktop class apps to the iPad, and market pressure to do so is building as consumers expect to be able to do more with iPad versions of apps. And Apple has made several tools to make it easier to bring desktop class apps to the iPad, and is actively encouraging developers to do so. I think inevitably many iPad apps will end up sharing most or all functionality with the desktop versions, even if there are a few who will fight to the end to avoid that like Microsoft probably will…

I personally think iPadOS positions Apple much better for the long game, and is also a big part of why they’re so ahead of the rest of the tablet market even in the short game. iPadOS is built on a more modern foundation, and is fully optimized for it’s hardware. It can comfortably work for touch interactions because every iPad app has already been designed to support them, but it can also comfortably support cursor input. Where Windows 2-in-1s struggle with the 2-in-1 part because they’re basically just 1 pretending to be 2, the iPad can truly be a 2-in-1. iPadOS seems more modular in hardware and software. That’s at least my opinion, YMMV. 👍🏻

Also, I do think it would be nice to have an option for cursor shape for those who care about it, but I personally prefer the circle cursor. I would actually probably try adding it on my Mac Mini if there were an option for it on there. 👍🏻

 

[salamanderjuice]

I was actually just looking at Best Buy, and held a display model for the 13” M4 iPad Pro, the 11” M4 iPad Pro, the 13” iPad Air, and the latest Surface Pro. I’d say with the Magic Keyboard, the 13” M4 iPad Pro weighs about the same as the Surface Pro, but as a tablet without the case, the 13” iPad Pro feels significantly lighter than the Surface Pro, and is dramatically thinner. The 11” M4 iPad Pro actually feels only marginally lighter than the 13” M4 iPad Pro this go around with the major weight reduction on the 13”. I’d say even the heavier 13” iPad Air still feels lighter than the Surface Pro, and is still thinner by a substantial margin. The Surface Pro just feels very chunky in my opinion. It’s substantially thicker than most tablets, and it feels pretty heavy. The difference here is that the Magic Keyboard Case adds like half of the weight of the total combo when both are used together, which both add up to about exactly the same weight as a MacBook Air. But shed the Magic Keyboard Case, and the 13” iPad Pro is significantly lighter. With the Surface Pro, most of that weight is just the tablet itself. The tablet itself is heavy, and the keyboard case for it doesn’t add that much weight. So if you’re carrying them with a keyboard case, they’re fairly even in weight, but when you shed the cover and use it as a tablet, the 13” iPad Pro feels significantly lighter and is much thinner, while shedding the case on the Surface Pro doesn’t shed that much weight. That’s at least my experience from trying out some display models. 👍🏻

PS, I was actually shocked by how thick the Surface Pro is, even with the Qualcomm ARM chips. It doesn’t seem to be much thinner than a whole MacBook Air, especially with the keyboard cover, it’s probably actually thicker. And most of that thickness is the tablet itself. It’s just insanely thick for a tablet in my opinion.

The Surface Pro 11 has a fan in it. That plus the need for vents makes it a lot thicker. Most Surface Pros do. The older ARM based Surface Pro X doesn't and it's about as thick as a 2017 iPad Pro. In regular use I don't find the SP11 really engages the fan but is there for heavier workloads.

I'd imagine the kickstand adds some extra weight too since it's excess metal but IMO it's very handy.

 

[Kal Madda]

The Surface Pro 11 has a fan in it. That plus the need for vents makes it a lot thicker. Most Surface Pros do. The older ARM based Surface Pro X doesn't and it's about as thick as a 2017 iPad Pro. In regular use I don't find the SP11 really engages the fan but is there for heavier workloads.

I'd imagine the kickstand adds some extra weight too since it's excess metal but IMO it's very handy.

I get that, but that’s exactly part of what makes it not feel like a good tablet to me. A tablet with a whirring fan inside is odd to me. And I thought the new Qualcomm powered Surface Pros would have done away with the fan since they’re ARM, but apparently they just aren’t able to run as cool as the iPad with the M-chips even with the Qualcomm chips. Again, I’m not saying that the Surface Pro is a bad option for everyone or anything, it’s just one of the things I don’t like about the Surface Pro. I have a family member who loves Windows that I’ve suggested the Surface Pro to as a good option for him since he uses a lot of windows software and likes Windows. I just personally think it’s a very compromised tablet because it’s essentially a laptop pretending to be a tablet… 👍🏻

 

[salamanderjuice]

I get that, but that’s exactly part of what makes it not feel like a good tablet to me. A tablet with a whirring fan inside is odd to me. And I thought the new Qualcomm powered Surface Pros would have done away with the fan since they’re ARM, but apparently they just aren’t able to run as cool as the iPad with the M-chips even with the Qualcomm chips. Again, I’m not saying that the Surface Pro is a bad option for everyone or anything, it’s just one of the things I don’t like about the Surface Pro. I have a family member who loves Windows that I’ve suggested the Surface Pro to as a good option for him since he uses a lot of windows software and likes Windows. I just personally think it’s a very compromised tablet because it’s essentially a laptop pretending to be a tablet… 👍🏻

Again, you really don't hear or feel it in regular use. I think everything you might use it for in tablet use won't use it except maybe a very demanding illustration. Web browsing, watching videos, note taking, reading are all cool and quiet. I don't even think it's on, just there in case.

I think there's definitely trade-offs, but personally the iPad at least when I tried was a worse laptop replacement than the Surface Pro was a bad tablet. There's just too many tasks that iPadOS makes impossible or extremely frustrating due to software limitations. Surface Pro, is IMO, the best balance between the two. It would be nice if it was lighter and fanless, just like it would nice if iPadOS wasn't so darn limiting.

 

[sparksd]

The Surface Pro 11 has a fan in it. That plus the need for vents makes it a lot thicker. Most Surface Pros do. The older ARM based Surface Pro X doesn't and it's about as thick as a 2017 iPad Pro. In regular use I don't find the SP11 really engages the fan but is there for heavier workloads.

I'd imagine the kickstand adds some extra weight too since it's excess metal but IMO it's very handy.

The fan is a good addition. My SP7 does not have one and it can readily get quite hot, in which case it throttles the CPU.

 

[Kal Madda]

Again, you really don't hear or feel it in regular use. I think everything you might use it for in tablet use won't use it except maybe a very demanding illustration. Web browsing, watching videos, note taking, reading are all cool and quiet. I don't even think it's on, just there in case.

I think there's definitely trade-offs, but personally the iPad at least when I tried was a worse laptop replacement than the Surface Pro was a bad tablet. There's just too many tasks that iPadOS makes impossible or extremely frustrating due to software limitations. Surface Pro, is IMO, the best balance between the two. It would be nice if it was lighter and fanless, just like it would nice if iPadOS wasn't so darn limiting.

And I’m glad that the Surface Pro works well for you. I just stated my opinion and a few of the reasons that I personally feel the iPad makes for a better tablet and all around device. I’m not saying your opinion is invalid or wrong, because this is almost entirely a subjective preference thing. 👍🏻

I think whether or not the iPad is a good laptop replacement somewhat depends on use-case and individual preferences. For me, the iPad is the ideal device, and that’s why I use it as my primary computer. It works beautifully for my graphic design, 3D sculpting/modeling, writing, and other workflows I use it for. And often the iPad apps or versions of apps for the things I do I actually find to be better than the desktop versions. But that’s my opinion and my use-case, which will likely differ from some others. 👍🏻

Personally I don’t think most of the limitations some attribute to iPadOS are actually limitations of iPadOS, but limitations of apps made by third-party developers. Sure, there are some things that could be improved in iPadOS, and I think there are a few genuine OS limits that could be improved. But things like less functionality in Microsoft Office apps aren’t a limitation of iPadOS, but a limitation imposed by Microsoft on the features they’ve decided to incorporate into these apps. They easily could decide to implement more features, like custom document templates, precise image positioning options, the ability to insert images from OneDrive into Word documents without having to separately open OneDrive and copy the photo and pasting it into the document, just to name a few of the features they’ve excluded that they could easily implement if they wanted to. But my cynical take is that Microsoft wants to kneecap their iPadOS and Android apps in several ways so that you have to use a Surface Pro to get a fully functioning Office experience on a tablet. And they also want to make more people have to use Windows in order to use Office, which is why they even limit the Mac versions of Office.

But many of the things I commonly see people claim as iPadOS limitations actually just boil down to app limitations like this. Again, I think there are some real iPadOS limitations, but there are also real macOS limitations, real Windows limitations, etc. Like on Windows I couldn’t even opt out of software updates, they’d be forced on me whether they are loaded with bugs that cause issues with drivers on the computer or not… Ask me how I know, I spent months battling Windows automatic updates that kept breaking things like network drivers on family member’s computers over and over and over again… And they were pretty recent computers too, it’s not like they were really old…

Ultimately, I think there are definitely some ways that iPadOS can continue to improve, But I think some of the things people say are iPadOS limitations are actually just mis-categorized app limitations. 👍🏻

Again, that’s just my opinion, so YMMV. 👍🏻

 

[SnowCrocodile]

Is the surface much heavier than the 13” iPad?

iPad Pro 13" 682g
Surface Pro 9 879g

Both without keyboard.

So about 30% difference.

 

[salamanderjuice]

And I’m glad that the Surface Pro works well for you. I just stated my opinion and a few of the reasons that I personally feel the iPad makes for a better tablet and all around device. I’m not saying your opinion is invalid or wrong, because this is almost entirely a subjective preference thing. 👍🏻

I think whether or not the iPad is a good laptop replacement somewhat depends on use-case and individual preferences. For me, the iPad is the ideal device, and that’s why I use it as my primary computer. It works beautifully for my graphic design, 3D sculpting/modeling, writing, and other workflows I use it for. And often the iPad apps or versions of apps for the things I do I actually find to be better than the desktop versions. But that’s my opinion and my use-case, which will likely differ from some others. 👍🏻

Personally I don’t think most of the limitations some attribute to iPadOS are actually limitations of iPadOS, but limitations of apps made by third-party developers. Sure, there are some things that could be improved in iPadOS, and I think there are a few genuine OS limits that could be improved. But things like less functionality in Microsoft Office apps aren’t a limitation of iPadOS, but a limitation imposed by Microsoft on the features they’ve decided to incorporate into these apps. They easily could decide to implement more features, like custom document templates, precise image positioning options, the ability to insert images from OneDrive into Word documents without having to separately open OneDrive and copy the photo and pasting it into the document, just to name a few of the features they’ve excluded that they could easily implement if they wanted to. But my cynical take is that Microsoft wants to kneecap their iPadOS and Android apps in several ways so that you have to use a Surface Pro to get a fully functioning Office experience on a tablet. And they also want to make more people have to use Windows in order to use Office, which is why they even limit the Mac versions of Office.

But many of the things I commonly see people claim as iPadOS limitations actually just boil down to app limitations like this. Again, I think there are some real iPadOS limitations, but there are also real macOS limitations, real Windows limitations, etc. Like on Windows I couldn’t even opt out of software updates, they’d be forced on me whether they are loaded with bugs that cause issues with drivers on the computer or not… Ask me how I know, I spent months battling Windows automatic updates that kept breaking things like network drivers on family member’s computers over and over and over again… And they were pretty recent computers too, it’s not like they were really old…

Ultimately, I think there are definitely some ways that iPadOS can continue to improve, But I think some of the things people say are iPadOS limitations are actually just mis-categorized app limitations. 👍🏻

Again, that’s just my opinion, so YMMV. 👍🏻

No, iPadOS limitations tend to stem from Apple's choices. Apple limits a lot what apps can and can't do via App Store rules on iOS/iPadOS and this has knock on effects with what app developers can do. You can't for example offer a full speed virtual machine app for iPad. So while an M4 MBA can run the Windows version of Office in a VM with good performance, you just can't on an M4 iPad Pro. I'm sure Parallels would love to have an iPad version but realistically they couldn't put out a good product.

Maybe MS is also limiting Office, IDK. I rarely use Office on any platform. But Apple definitely limits iPadOS too even if they aren't the sole source of problems. I don't think many developers outside of Microsoft and maybe Google have much incentive to unnecessarily cripple iPad apps. Does Adobe really care if you're paying $20 a month to use Photoshop on Windows vs. iPad when they don't control either platform?

 

[SnowCrocodile]

Surface is a horrible tablet and a ****** laptop. At least in my experience.

While an iPad is not a full laptop replacement, it does offer some additional functionality that makes it a valid compromise for some people.

Surface, however, can be replaced with many 2-in-1 Windows laptops that would be just a little less portable but a lot more useful.

 

[salamanderjuice]

Surface is a horrible tablet and a ****** laptop. At least in my experience.

While an iPad is not a full laptop replacement, it does offer some additional functionality that makes it a valid compromise for some people.

Surface, however, can be replaced with many 2-in-1 Windows laptops that would be just a little less portable but a lot more useful.

Beyond hinge mechanics, what can other 2-in-1s do extra? Maybe have an HDMI port?

I like being able take off the keyboard.

 

[Kal Madda]

No, iPadOS limitations tend to stem from Apple's choices. Apple limits a lot what apps can and can't do via App Store rules on iOS/iPadOS and this has knock on effects with what app developers can do. You can't for example offer a full speed virtual machine app for iPad. So while an M4 MBA can run the Windows version of Office in a VM with good performance, you just can't on an M4 iPad Pro. I'm sure Parallels would love to have an iPad version but realistically they couldn't put out a good product.

Maybe MS is also limiting Office, IDK. I rarely use Office on any platform. But Apple definitely limits iPadOS too even if they aren't the sole source of problems. I don't think many developers outside of Microsoft and maybe Google have much incentive to unnecessarily cripple iPad apps. Does Adobe really care if you're paying $20 a month to use Photoshop on Windows vs. iPad when they don't control either platform?

That is one specific limitation of iPadOS, not supporting JIT entitlements for VMs, and I said there are some legit limitations of iPadOS, that would be one of them. Though the rational behind it makes a lot of sense. JIT access opens up several potential security vulnerabilities since JIT can load in code after the review process. Unrestricted JIT would pretty much completely defeat the whole purpose of the review process to prevent malware from slipping in. Now, I think maybe Apple could find a way to more securely implement it, maybe make it an entitlement that developers must request access to so Apple can verify the developers are trustworthy or something, or maybe there’s another way. But it definitely isn’t something to be implemented unrestricted, because it could lead to major security issues if unchecked…

That aside, I actually had a Windows 7 VM running perfectly fine in UTM SE from the App Store. I just had to make some optimizations with my VM setup to make it run efficiently, like balancing the RAM I gave the VM access to. I haven’t tried 10 or 11 yet because I don’t have a lot of available storage right now on my iPad, but judging from how well 7 ran, I’m guessing 10 would probably run fairly okay, probably wouldn’t be running really intensive software on it, but Office could probably run okay.

MS is definitely limiting Office, whether intentional or not. There are many features that I know they could implement because they’ve even implemented them in other MS apps on the iPad, like inserting images and such from Files vs the Photos app, which they support in OneNote, but not Word. And nothing about iPadOS is preventing them from implementing custom document templates, other apps on the iPad support this. There are many limitations like this that are Microsoft’s fault, not to do with any iPadOS limitations…

I didn’t say that there aren’t any real limitations of iPadOS. There are some. But many of the things I commonly see people blaming on iPadOS as “iPadOS limitations” are actually app limitations that are outside of Apple’s control… Like the lack of several features in Office apps is one I hear brought up a lot, even though this is clearly on Microsoft, not Apple, and iPadOS doesn’t prevent them from implementing more features…

As to Microsoft and Google having incentive to cripple their apps on other platforms, they absolutely do. They want people to use their platforms to get the best experience using their software. They want to sell more Windows devices, and more Android/ChromeOS devices. Now in the case of Google, they actually support the iPad just as well as the Mac, if not better for all of their web apps. You can use the exact same web app versions that people use on the Mac on the iPad for Google Docs, Google Sheets, GMail, etc. 👍🏻. Microsoft’s web apps are a weird in-between where they offer some features the native Android and iPadOS versions don’t, but are still not full-featured compared to the Windows versions… But both don’t have much incentive to go above and beyond to make their apps a great experience on Apple’s platform, because they have their own platforms they want people to use instead of Apple’s platforms…

As to Adobe, I think that the deal with that is cloud storage related, they want you to rely on their cloud storage so you have to pay for it. That’s why they push Adobe Lightroom CC even on the Mac. And the experience between the Mac version and iPad version of Lightroom CC is basically identical, it’s just the Mac supports the Lightroom Classic version which Adobe will probably at some point dump altogether in favor of CC. Adobe’s apps are actually pretty good on iPadOS IMO.

At the end of the day, yes there are some limitations in iPadOS, but I think many of the things I commonly see people talking about are things that could be easily solved by developers doing better work with their iPad apps…

 

[Kal Madda]

Surface is a horrible tablet and a ****** laptop. At least in my experience.

While an iPad is not a full laptop replacement, it does offer some additional functionality that makes it a valid compromise for some people.

Surface, however, can be replaced with many 2-in-1 Windows laptops that would be just a little less portable but a lot more useful.

I agree that in my opinion it’s a pretty bad tablet experience, but I think this really depends on individual preferences, needs, etc. It’s a very subjective thing. Some people find the Surface Pro to be a great experience, and a good tablet. Some people like to remove the keyboard on the Surface Pro. Personally, I vastly prefer the iPad, and much of my workflow wouldn’t work nearly as well, if even at all with a Surface Pro. Many of the apps I use don’t even exist on Windows. But I think everyone has a different balance of needs, preferences, and considerations that go into picking a device. And the Surface Pro is a great option for some people. 👍🏻

 

[SnowCrocodile]

I agree that in my opinion it’s a pretty bad tablet experience, but I think this really depends on individual preferences, needs, etc. It’s a very subjective thing. Some people find the Surface Pro to be a great experience, and a good tablet. Some people like to remove the keyboard on the Surface Pro. Personally, I vastly prefer the iPad, and much of my workflow wouldn’t work nearly as well, if even at all with a Surface Pro. Many of the apps I use don’t even exist on Windows. But I think everyone has a different balance of needs, preferences, and considerations that go into picking a device. And the Surface Pro is a great option for some people. 👍🏻

At least my Surface is getting all hot and throttles like crazy unless it’s plugged in. Pretty much from day one. The battery barely lasted 4 hours when new (forget the advertised “up to 16 hrs”).

The tablet functionality is horrible - it’s the combination of Windows not being well optimized to be used in a tablet mode, and the hardware quirks.

My use case is taking field notes, with many marked up photos, and marking up large PDFs (detailed layouts).

Here are some of the most glaring issues I ran into while trying to use Surface as a tablet. I have I7 with 32Gb memory so it’s not like it’s underpowered.

- Random lags and freezes
- Random, inexplicable changes in screen orientation, in the middle of me writing on it and without me moving the tablet.
- Alternatively, it often won’t change screen orientation when I rotate it. I have to do it a couple times.
- The loaded PDFs constantly refresh if I zoom in too much. Extremely annoying. Granted this is software related, but the only app that I tried so far that is somewhat stable is OneNote and it’s not perfect for PDF markup. Every other app that I tried (Inkodo, Scribl, Adobe) seems to have major memory or video memory issues.
- Taking photos and marking them up is a multi step process compared to iPad.
- Photo quality is bad, especially in a poorly lit, backlit or high contrast environment (which is pretty much the inside of every manufacturing facility).

And it’s heavy.

After a while, I just started taking my personal iPad everywhere. Despite having a lot less memory, it’s an entirely opposite experience in pretty much every way. It takes better photos, marking them up is just a tap away, it’s fluid and responsive, it changes screen orientation when I want it to and doesn’t change it when I don’t expect it to, it doesn’t choke on large PDFs, and the OS is optimized for touch.

So, if I can’t use Surface as a tablet, it’s just a laptop - with a terrible battery life, cramped keyboard, and a small screen.

By the way, I used to have an Acer 2-in-1 laptop (personal device) that was about 1/3rd the price of that Surface. It was actually a better tablet - it was still held back by W11 not being a true tablet OS, but the battery life was good and it didn’t lag nearly as badly despite having a quarter of RAM. I think there’s a lot of throttling going on behind the scenes, because of the small form factor and a hot, hungry CPU.