iPad as a laptop replacement

[Digitalguy]

Developers has always been on board, that's why the iPad has such a rich app library compared to Google Play Store and Windows Store. But you are right about iPadOS, it needs to be a bit more functional. The developers are there, but it's the consumers reluctant to make the iPad their primary computing device.

Most desktop software developers are either not on iPad or are there with watered down versions... Where is full Google Chrome with extensions? Where is full Microsoft Office? Where is full Adobe Première pro? Where are AAA games?
So no, the fact that the App store is better than the Android or dead Windows Store means very little when we are talking about making the iPad a full laptop replacement, as the title of this thread says... Improving iPadOS is only part of the story... Bringing on fully featured, but touch optimized, apps will be the biggest challenge. And M1 is only the first step to attract them. Now Apple needs to set the example with their desktop apps...

 

[Ludatyk]

So no, the fact that the App store is better than the Android or dead Windows Store means very little when we are talking about making the iPad a full laptop replacement, as the title of this thread says...

I’m confused. How does App Store offering a wide selection of apps doesn’t mean anything? Ask Google tablet users? And yes… Windows users have access to full desktop class apps, like full Office Suite and full Adobe suite. All I’m saying is… that developer support is there. Full desktop class apps may be lacking… but developer support is there for the iPad.

 

[JD2015]

Quick question. Would people be prepared to spend £300 on say Final Cut Pro or £70 on a universal pro app for the iPad? If people want pro apps, then expect to change pricing expectations. Alternatively, there are subscription models or in app purchases.

 

[Ludatyk]

Quick question. Would people be prepared to spend £300 on say Final Cut Pro or £70 on a universal pro app for the iPad? If people want pro apps, then expect to change pricing expectations. Alternatively, there are subscription models or in app purchases.

That’s a valid question. I think subscription model is the trend going forward... If or when Apple implements FCPX for the iPad, I’ll be shocked if Apple doesn’t apply a subscription with it. They encourage developers to do it.

 

[rui no onna]

Most desktop software developers are either not on iPad or are there with watered down versions... Where is full Google Chrome with extensions?

As far as I'm aware, this is an iOS limitation forcing other browsers to use WebKit.

Firefox and Chrome already support M1 natively on Macs right? If Apple decides to lift the browser limitation on iOS, I think Mozilla and Google would actually be happier bringing the full versions to iPadOS and just maintain a universal code base.

 

[mrklaw]

Quick question. Would people be prepared to spend £300 on say Final Cut Pro or £70 on a universal pro app for the iPad? If people want pro apps, then expect to change pricing expectations. Alternatively, there are subscription models or in app purchases.

perhaps they’d be more willing to buy the expensive software if it ran on a range of hardware including iPad for portable use in the field and on a desktop with multiple monitors back at home?

 

[rui no onna]

Quick question. Would people be prepared to spend £300 on say Final Cut Pro or £70 on a universal pro app for the iPad? If people want pro apps, then expect to change pricing expectations. Alternatively, there are subscription models or in app purchases.

I'm already paying $100 per year for Office 365. I expect those who need these apps will be willing to pay.

Personally, all I really use for work is GoodReader and on rare occasions when I have neither desktop nor laptop, Excel.

 

[Digitalguy]

I’m confused. How does App Store offering a wide selection of apps doesn’t mean anything? Ask Google tablet users? And yes… Windows users have access to full desktop class apps, like full Office Suite and full Adobe suite. All I’m saying is… that developer support is there. Full desktop class apps may be lacking… but developer support is there for the iPad.

I think the issue is that you are confusing support for desktop and mobile apps... Here we are talking about iPad as a laptop replacement and you keep mentioning Android and the Windows store (which very few people use).
I don't want to start the Microsoft ad joke "so you have 1 million apps, how about real software?".... However, what I am saying is that we need developers to bring full desktop apps to iPad if we want it to become a true desktop replacement... at this point they don't care to bring them... so Apple needs to find incentives to convince them... the first incentive was M1 and RAM, now they need to port their desktop apps to iPad to give the example and push competition

 

[Digitalguy]

As far as I'm aware, this is an iOS limitation forcing other browsers to use WebKit.

Firefox and Chrome already support M1 natively on Macs right? If Apple decides to lift the browser limitation on iOS, I think Mozilla and Google would actually be happier bringing the full versions to iPadOS and just maintain a universal code base.

I know about this. I was implying that by bringing full MacOS Safari they would lift the restrictions on other browsers too. As to if Google would be happy, maybe, they haven't ported Chrome to Windows on Arm yet, while Safari did, so who knows... hopefully iPad is more interesting to them...

 

[Digitalguy]

Quick question. Would people be prepared to spend £300 on say Final Cut Pro or £70 on a universal pro app for the iPad? If people want pro apps, then expect to change pricing expectations. Alternatively, there are subscription models or in app purchases.

I think people would be more prepared to pay $300 than to pay $100 per year (premier pro is around $250 per year)

 

[rui no onna]

I know about this. I was implying that by bringing full MacOS Safari they would lift the restrictions on other browsers too. As to if Google would be happy, maybe, they haven't ported Chrome to Windows on Arm yet, while Safari did, so who knows... hopefully iPad is more interesting to them...

I haven't used my M1 MBA in a while but doesn't Chrome for macOS support Apple Silicon natively already? I distinctly recall Firefox does. With universal apps, I think it's probably easier for Google to port the macOS version to iPadOS (assuming Apple allows it).

Of course, desktop Chrome doesn't really do RAM management like on the iOS version. Right now, macOS handles that seamlessly via swap. It would be interesting to see if Apple implements swap at least on the 2021 iPad Pro (maybe even 2020) with 128GB+ storage or if developers will need to stick to the current iOS app states paradigm.

 

[Ludatyk]

Here we are talking about iPad as a laptop replacement and you keep mentioning Android and the Windows store (which very few people use).

What I’m trying to convey is that developer support is there, i already mention that desktop class apps are lacking on the iPad. But you are under the impression that there’s not much developer support when you mention developers need to get on board.

 

[Digitalguy]

I haven't used my M1 MBA in a while but doesn't Chrome for macOS support Apple Silicon natively already? I distinctly recall Firefox does. With universal apps, I think it's probably easier for Google to port the macOS version to iPadOS (assuming Apple allows it).

Of course, desktop Chrome doesn't really do RAM management like on the iOS version. Right now, macOS handles that seamlessly via swap. It would be interesting to see if Apple implements swap at least on the 2021 iPad Pro (maybe even 2020) with 128GB+ storage or if developers will need to stick to the current iOS app states paradigm.

Yes, Chrome runs as a universal app now... I think it's somewhat easier to port to iPadOS, since on of the elements to make apps universal was to make them support the big-little architecture of Apple Silicon. But I don't know how much work it is to adapt it to a completely different OS like iPadOS that does not support swap. Unless Apple change things with iPadOS, or creates what I was mentioning above, a MacOS mode that only run on external displays and at that point any universal app can run. But, knowing Apple, I suspect they will only allow apps from the Mac Store if they do this...

 

[Digitalguy]

What I’m trying to convey is that developer support is there, i already mention that desktop class apps are lacking on the iPad. But you are under the impression that there’s not much developer support when you mention developers need to get on board.

Yes, I am under the impression that developers don't care to port desktop apps to iPad... And they care even less to do that on Android and on Windows Store for that matter.
Porting an app to another OS is work, and maintaining several versions of the same software on different platforms is continuous work. If the port needs a redesign of the UI because it needs to be touch optimized it's even more work...
You need really big incentives to make that happen.

So far developers have had very little incentives.
1. iPads have historically been RAM constrained (most iPad sales are for the base one, which is the most RAM and storage constrained iPad and a lot of the supported iPad arounds are even older and more constrained)
2. The OS has been historically very closed and not very flexible
3. People are used to pay little for apps
4. Apple takes 30% of their revenues

These are disincentives, not incentives. Apple has to remove them (1st is done with the M1 pro, 2nd and 3rd could be done by Apple with iPadOS and by setting the example with pro apps, 4th I am afraid is here to stay...) and create competition that pushes developers to bring fully featured apps to iPad.

 

[Ludatyk]

Yes, I am under the impression that developers don't care to port desktop apps to iPad... And they care even less to to that on Android and on Windows Store for that matter.
Porting an app to another OS is work, and maintaining several versions of the same software on different platforms is continuous work. If the port needs a redesign of the UI because it needs to be touch optimized it's even more work...
You need really big incentives to make that happen.

So far developers have had very little incentives.
1. iPads have historically been RAM constrained (most iPad sales are for the base one, which is the most RAM and storage constrained iPad and a lot of the supported iPad arounds are even older and more constrained)
2. The OS has been historically very closed and not very flexible
3. People are used to pay little for apps
4. Apple takes 30% of their revenues

These are disincentives, not incentives. Apple has to remove them (1st is done with the M1 pro, 2nd and 3rd could be done by Apple with iPadOS and by setting the example with pro apps, 4th I am afraid is here to stay...) and create competition that pushes developers to bring fully featured apps to iPad.

I guess it’s agree to disagree here and you make excellent points. Perhaps, it’s the use of “care“ that has us at crossroads. Because on one end.. you mention they don’t care while mentioning this, this, this and this. But if developers don’t care… why develop as you say “watered-down“ version of their apps.

Yes, limitation has caused them to rethink how to design for the iPad. But that doesn’t have anything to do with not caring to develop desktop class apps for the platform.

 

[Digitalguy]

I guess it’s agree to disagree here and you make excellent points. Perhaps, it’s the use of “care“ that has us at crossroads. Because on one end.. you mention they don’t care while mentioning this, this, this and this. But if developers don’t care… why develop as you say “watered-down“ version of their apps.

Yes, limitation has caused them to rethink how to design for the iPad. But that doesn’t have anything to do with not caring to develop desktop class apps for the platform.

maybe a more nuanced and correct phrasing would be "they don't care enough" or, even better, "they don't think it's worth it to invest the resources", that's why they only port very simplified and easier to maintain version of their apps...
And as I said lifting the hardware limitations might not be enough for them to change their mind.
Hopefully Apple will manage to bring the right incentives and manage to change the perception of the iPads from a consumption device and, at best, a device for artists and some other creators, to a productivity one...a device you can not only do you personal computing on, but you can also work on, whatever is your job, at least for the iPad pro... (and again, for a lot of jobs the starting point is desktop browsers and full office...)

 

[petvas]

I don't expect that iPadOS 15 will solve all problems of the platform. Even if Apple allows true multitasking there are still a lot of work to be done, if the iPad is to be seen on par with the Mac. Simple put it, we need full blown enterprise apps, that are on par with their desktop equivalents:

• Microsoft Office
• Adobe Photoshop
• Apple iWork
• Apple Pro Apps
• Adobe Premiere
• Microsoft Teams
• XCode
• Parallels & VMWare Fusion
• Safari with full extension support
• Chrome with full extension support

Also, many of the default Apple apps must get a major overhaul:

• Apple Mail must get Smart Folders support
• Photos App must get feature parity with the Mac app
• The Contacts app must also get feature parity with the Mac app

The iPad is a great device and I enjoy surfing on it or listening to podcasts or watching a movie, but apart from that I don't use it.

 

[jrichards1408]

I’m confused. How does App Store offering a wide selection of apps doesn’t mean anything? Ask Google tablet users? And yes… Windows users have access to full desktop class apps, like full Office Suite and full Adobe suite. All I’m saying is… that developer support is there. Full desktop class apps may be lacking… but developer support is there for the iPad.

Because neither Google tablets or apple tablets run desktop apps that offer far more functionality.

Tablets as of today are still running smartphone apps that just caters on a larger screen

 

[sparksd]

Because neither Google tablets or apple tablets run desktop apps that offer far more functionality.

Tablets as of today are still running smartphone apps that just caters on a larger screen

I would hardly call an app like Complete Anatomy a smartphone app. That's just a gross generalization.

 

[cardfan]

I don't expect that iPadOS 15 will solve all problems of the platform. Even if Apple allows true multitasking there are still a lot of work to be done, if the iPad is to be seen on par with the Mac. Simple put it, we need full blown enterprise apps, that are on par with their desktop equivalents:

• Microsoft Office
• Adobe Photoshop
• Apple iWork
• Apple Pro Apps
• Adobe Premiere
• Microsoft Teams
• XCode
• Parallels & VMWare Fusion
• Safari with full extension support
• Chrome with full extension support

Also, many of the default Apple apps must get a major overhaul:

• Apple Mail must get Smart Folders support
• Photos App must get feature parity with the Mac app
• The Contacts app must also get feature parity with the Mac app

The iPad is a great device and I enjoy surfing on it or listening to podcasts or watching a movie, but apart from that I don't use it.

This won’t happen. Get a Mac instead.

 

[Digitalguy]

I would hardly call an app like Complete Anatomy a smartphone app. That's just a gross generalization.

There are exceptions, and in specific sectors quite a few, but how much software that businesses use to run their organisations run (fully) on tablets? I think the percentage is pretty small... The reality is that even full Macs without Windows virtualisation wouldn't be enough for many businesses.

 

[sparksd]

There are exceptions, and in specific sectors quite a few, but how much software that businesses use to run their organisations run (fully) on tablets? I think the percentage is pretty small... The reality is that even full Macs without Windows virtualisation wouldn't be enough for many businesses.

Don't disagree - I was just pushing back on a blanket statement covering tablet applications. I worked 45 years in h/w and s/w engineering and never used a tablet in a work environment. I would point out - from experience - a wider use of ruggedized tablets in the field in military applications.

 

[Digitalguy]

Don't disagree - I was just pushing back on a blanket statement covering tablet applications. I worked 45 years in h/w and s/w engineering and never used a tablet in a work environment. I would point out - from experience - a wider use of ruggedized tablets in the field in military applications.

I haven't experience of the military, so I may be wrong, but I have the impression that a lot of ruggedized tablets run Windows (and can therefore run any desktop software)

 

[sparksd]

I haven't experience of the military, so I may be wrong, but I have the impression that a lot of ruggedized tablets run Windows (and can therefore run any desktop software)

That's true but there's also use of Android and iOS-based systems and some specialized RTOS systems.

 

[petvas]

This won’t happen. Get a Mac instead.

I know. I don‘t expect the iPad to become a Mac..