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Not wanting to state the obvious, but it’s not a laptop. If you are not taking advantage of the touch screen (and pen) and portability as a tablet then a laptop is the better product. Just because it’s price is “into laptop territory” does not make it a laptop.

Well, what is it?

don’t get me wrong, I like my iPad Pro as an entertainment system on the sofa. Like Steve used the first one.

But Apple.com is promising “Desktop-class apps”, as a device to use it with keyboard connected to a display, for “video conferencing apps”, to “Draw a masterpiece, take notes, or knock out a business plan” and “write your novel, crank out a term paper, or rip through your inbox”.

Or just watch movies…

What is the iPad when you advertise it as an ultra mobile working device, as a stunning display and as an entertainment device?

I'm afraid that because Apple itself doesn't clearly formulate what the iPad Pro is actually supposed to be, they don't know. They advertise the device as useful for everything. The one size fits all. but most things not really good.
 
What if it could run MacOS simultaneously with iPadOS? To
Me, that makes it a much more convenient portable device that can be detached to watch movies or connected to run full apps like the SoC it has?

I think Tim’s AAPL is afraid of any cannibalization of its own products. If the iPad could do everything, it would win for me. Since it can’t, it loses! You’re correct the iPad Pro is a joke. It has all this power but does nothing that a $349 iPad can’t do extremely well. This is the tragedy that is iPad and Apple under Tim Cook who doesn’t see products as a visionary. He only sees dollars as someone who wants as much as he can get by operating the ecosystem well.

In 50 years, Apple will be gone as we know it. Other companies will have one device that does everything so much better than an ecosystem of a ton of devices that all work together. Apple with Tim Cook gives users what they want - look at MacBook Pros with thicker bodies and the ports people wanted. What Apple needs is a new Steve who can visualize the future and make it a reality.

Cannot wait to be done with all this ecosystem. I think the bully is going down, and I can’t wait to see what could happen from all the people who have great ideas and can make products that interface and do everything we want in one device we carry on us perhaps a ring or contacts that ensure we see the tech and get info instantly over the air.

The problem is most people can’t see what they want. They think they wanted a faster horse until the car was created. I don’t want 15 devices that all work well together in a monopolistic way. I want one device that does everything I want better and I don’t have to be caught in an endless cycle of buying for one update.
>Yawn< This diatribe is old and boring. (Sorry, you are SO not the first one to come up with this manifesto.)
There are people who prefer Macs and there are people who prefer iPads. And Apple makes BOTH. Why? Because it is a capitalist corporation that has a fiduciary responsibility to its shareholders to be profitable, and not a social club for nerds who want everything to be made for them, and on the cheap.

“Monopolistic?” Do you even know what the word means? How is Apple a monopoly in this industry when they have big-ass competition from Google, Samsung and Microsoft?

You don’t have the power of choice over what Apple makes. Henry Ford said of the Model T “you can have any color you want, as long as it’s black.” Ford Motor Company became hugely successful nonetheless. Apple is a 3 trillion dollar corporation, and I can’t see how not making a kludgy iPad/Mac half-breed “loses” business for them.

iPadOS not your ideal? Apple has a Mac for you. Want to use both systems but not spend a lot of money? Forgo the Pro models — Apple offers lower-priced “Air” (and refurbished) versions of iPad and MacBooks.
 
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Apple’s limitations and restrictions are so frustrating and I’m excited to see how the DOJ lawsuit plays out.

You know there’s a reason why Apple doesn’t make the “What’s a computer” ads anymore right?
First of all, the DOJ lawsuit is completely bogus. Apple is in no way a monopoly when it has robust competition in the personal tech industry. Is the DOJ clueless to the fact that far more Android phones are sold than Apple?

It’s also biased against Apple. General Motors makes its own proprietary in-car entertainment system, so how come we don’t see the DOJ trying to force them to make it compatible with Ford automobiles?
In any event, it’s the market that should guide these decisions, not the government.

Apple’s “What is a computer?“ campaign ended when it accomplished what is set out to. If there is some other hidden “reason“ for this, care to enlighten us?
 
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A couple good articles of topical interest y'all may be interested in.


 
Well, what is it?

don’t get me wrong, I like my iPad Pro as an entertainment system on the sofa. Like Steve used the first one.

But Apple.com is promising “Desktop-class apps”, as a device to use it with keyboard connected to a display, for “video conferencing apps”, to “Draw a masterpiece, take notes, or knock out a business plan” and “write your novel, crank out a term paper, or rip through your inbox”.

Or just watch movies…

What is the iPad when you advertise it as an ultra mobile working device, as a stunning display and as an entertainment device?

I'm afraid that because Apple itself doesn't clearly formulate what the iPad Pro is actually supposed to be, they don't know. They advertise the device as useful for everything. The one size fits all. but most things not really good.
I think Apple rely (perhaps too much) on professionals doing their own research and knowing what performance and functionality they need. The domestic or school customer probably needs more support. I wonder how many of those berating the iPad Pro for not being a MBP spent the time to go through the options with one of the tech people in their local apple store. I have found their advice informed and valuable.
 
Funny you mention RAW photo editing because that was one of my great joys of iPad. Other than that I agree it's redundant for most productivity workflows if you own a Mac. For me the iPad's greatest strength is that it's just a larger iPhone. I don't want it to be macOS because macOS isn't designed for touch. The iPad will always be a touch-first device whereas basically every single Windows touchscreen device out there is desktop-first with touchscreen as a secondary bonus -- no surprise the touchscreen experience of Windows is not great. iPad tried the opposite and added desktop features (i.e cursor input and window management) to a touch-first device and it turned out terribly. I've used iPad with the Magic Keyboard thing and it sucks compared to a MacBook.

No thanks, I'd prefer having two operating systems each optimized for one interaction mode. When I want the best of touchscreen I'll use iPad. When I want the best of desktop I'll use Mac.
 
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I think Apple rely (perhaps too much) on professionals doing their own research and knowing what performance and functionality they need. The domestic or school customer probably needs more support. I wonder how many of those berating the iPad Pro for not being a MBP spent the time to go through the options with one of the tech people in their local apple store. I have found their advice informed and valuable.
Here is the most up to date page on Apple's website with what Apple says the iPad is and what it can do...

 
Funny you mention RAW photo editing because that was one of my great joys of iPad. Other than that I agree it's redundant for most productivity workflows if you own a Mac. For me the iPad's greatest strength is that it's just a larger iPhone. I don't want it to be macOS because macOS isn't designed for touch. The iPad will always be a touch-first device whereas basically every single Windows touchscreen device out there is desktop-first with touchscreen as a secondary bonus -- no surprise the touchscreen experience of Windows is not great. iPad tried the opposite and added desktop features (i.e cursor input and window management) to a touch-first device and it turned out terribly. I've used iPad with the Magic Keyboard thing and it sucks compared to a MacBook.

No thanks, I'd prefer having two operating systems each optimized for one interaction mode. When I want the best of touchscreen I'll use iPad. When I want the best of desktop I'll use Mac.
I can't run my real estate business with just my iPhone, but have been easily doing it for over two years with my M1 iPad Pro 11. It maybe just a larger phone in "your opinion", but it's so much more than that to many people. It is a tablet computer that outsells its nearest competitor by more than double.

Also...

 
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Here is the most up to date page on Apple's website with what Apple says the iPad is and what it can do...

Indeed but when you read through it shows its limitations more in what is not said rather than what is, which is why I ask Tech guys in the store. You can edit little videos from your iPhone but no one in their right mind can think you can do professional editing on this. I struggle with the MacBook Pro on short videos. Horses for courses.
 
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First of all, the DOJ lawsuit is completely bogus. Apple is in no way a monopoly when it has robust competition in the personal tech industry. Is the DOJ clueless to the fact that far more Android phones are sold than Apple?

It’s also biased against Apple. General Motors makes its own proprietary in-car entertainment system, so how come we don’t see the DOJ trying to force them to make it compatible with Ford automobiles?
In any event, it’s the market that should guide these decisions, not the government.

Apple’s “What is a computer?“ campaign ended when it accomplished what is set out to. If there is some other hidden “reason“ for this, care to enlighten us?
From my understanding, the lawsuit is more focused on Apple’s monopoly within the Apple Ecosystem. I could be wrong though, I have no experience in the legal system.

Yes, the “What’s a computer“ campaign did exactly what it set out to do, convince people that the iPad is a full laptop replacement. The problem is that it’s not. For some people like me or bondr006, it totally can be. But for others, it just can’t. Thats why we still have conversations like this.
 
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It’s wild how if you call out how useless the iPad Pro is, people are so quick to jump to its defense and tell you that you’re expectations are wrong and that somehow it works for them.


At best it’s a glorified email machine with maybe some uses as an art tablet if you’re into that. It’s best use is media consumption which could be done on a much cheaper iPad. IMO the mini is the best form factor for the iPad use case.


For the cost of the Pro + Keyboard it makes infinitely more sense to just get a MBA.
 
Indeed but when you read through it shows its limitations more in what is not said rather than what is, which is why I ask Tech guys in the store. You can edit little videos from your iPhone but no one in their right mind can think you can do professional editing on this. I struggle with the MacBook Pro on short videos. Horses for courses.

 
It’s wild how if you call out how useless the iPad Pro is, people are so quick to jump to its defense and tell you that you’re expectations are wrong and that somehow it works for them.


At best it’s a glorified email machine with maybe some uses as an art tablet if you’re into that. It’s best use is media consumption which could be done on a much cheaper iPad. IMO the mini is the best form factor for the iPad use case.


For the cost of the Pro + Keyboard it makes infinitely more sense to just get a MBA.
It’s definitely a luxury device. It will always be more sense to buy a MBA if all you need is email and web browsing. But in that same light, so can an old ThinkPad. Some people like the form factor of the iPad more than the Mac, and that’s okay. I effectively use my iPad as a laptop replacement, but more for computational extensive tasks that I need to do (Radar software, software dev, etc.) I use my pc.
 
It’s wild how if you call out how useless the iPad Pro is, people are so quick to jump to its defense and tell you that you’re expectations are wrong and that somehow it works for them.


At best it’s a glorified email machine with maybe some uses as an art tablet if you’re into that. It’s best use is media consumption which could be done on a much cheaper iPad. IMO the mini is the best form factor for the iPad use case.


For the cost of the Pro + Keyboard it makes infinitely more sense to just get a MBA.
Again..."Your Opinion" or "In Your Experience", which is not nearly everyone else's experience.


The fact that you can't do anything but draw and email on it, doesn't mean that much to others who can. I accept that you can't, and won't try to talk you into trying. Lord knows, I'd hate to stress you out and make you that miserable.
 
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It’s wild how if you call out how useless the iPad Pro is, people are so quick to jump to its defense and tell you that you’re expectations are wrong and that somehow it works for them.


At best it’s a glorified email machine with maybe some uses as an art tablet if you’re into that. It’s best use is media consumption which could be done on a much cheaper iPad. IMO the mini is the best form factor for the iPad use case.


For the cost of the Pro + Keyboard it makes infinitely more sense to just get a MBA.

It may be just a glorified email machine for you but that does not apply to others.
 
First of all, the DOJ lawsuit is completely bogus. Apple is in no way a monopoly when it has robust competition in the personal tech industry. Is the DOJ clueless to the fact that far more Android phones are sold than Apple?

It’s also biased against Apple. General Motors makes its own proprietary in-car entertainment system, so how come we don’t see the DOJ trying to force them to make it compatible with Ford automobiles?
In any event, it’s the market that should guide these decisions, not the government.

Apple’s “What is a computer?“ campaign ended when it accomplished what is set out to. If there is some other hidden “reason“ for this, care to enlighten us?

The complaint, filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of New Jersey, alleges that Apple illegally maintains a monopoly over smartphones by selectively imposing contractual restrictions on, and withholding critical access points from, developers. Apple undermines apps, products, and services that would otherwise make users less reliant on the iPhone, promote interoperability, and lower costs for consumers and developers.

I can't say that isn't true.

And the GM example is a bad one, because car manufactureres offer Apple and Android Carplay support. They don't force you to stay in the "GM" or "Ford" playground.
 
I can also. Just seems so natural to control a touch device with a touch device.

My iPad Desktop Setup
View attachment 2365353
Wow! Well.... this is a surprise!
I returned from my travels and plugged my iPad into my Thunderbolt dock. Nearly everything worked! The 4K monitor, SD card, CFExpress card, SSD drive, Ethernet, Logitech keyboard/mouse and the webcam all worked! The only glitch I have is getting microphone to work with videoconferencing, but I'll probably sort that out.
ipad desktop.jpeg
 
The complaint, filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of New Jersey, alleges that Apple illegally maintains a monopoly over smartphones by selectively imposing contractual restrictions on, and withholding critical access points from, developers. Apple undermines apps, products, and services that would otherwise make users less reliant on the iPhone, promote interoperability, and lower costs for consumers and developers.
I understand the complaint, but disagree with the premise. There are countless brands of phones utilizing Android, no one is forcing consumers or developers to buy an iPhone in the first place. Millions of people worldwide cannot afford such a premium product as iPhone, and yet their lives are not worse off for this when they can buy an Android for as little as $99 and get the same operating system as if they paid $2,000 for a top line foldable Samsung.

Apple is not even the preferred brand in China, and no one there is crying foul.
 
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Indeed but when you read through it shows its limitations more in what is not said rather than what is, which is why I ask Tech guys in the store. You can edit little videos from your iPhone but no one in their right mind can think you can do professional editing on this. I struggle with the MacBook Pro on short videos. Horses for courses.
That’s why my question was, what is it?

According to Apple, it was supposed to be able to replace a computer. Today, according to Apple, the iPad can be anything and do everything.
Practically God in technical form.

And no, what it is not is not an answer. Because what it is not, the list goes on and on. It's not a stone, it's not a pen, it's not a ball, it's not....
 
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Yes, the “What’s a computer“ campaign did exactly what it set out to do, convince people that the iPad is a full laptop replacement.
Actually, no. Apple was presenting iPad as another type of computer, meaning that you're not restricted to needing a desktop, keyboard and mouse to do computing. iPad’s interface is so simple and intuitive that this kid could just pick it up and use it. And with the creative tasks she was performing it never once occurred to her that she was using a “computer” until her mother called it one.
 
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I understand the complaint, but disagree with the premise. There are countless brands of phones utilizing Android, no one is forcing consumers or developers to buy an iPhone in the first place.
Nobody forces you to buy a car and yet a few oil companies have built up an oligopoly.
Nobody forces you to go to the supermarket and yet 95% of the products there are offered by fewer than five companies.

Monopoly is not defined by the compulsion to buy a product. It's about the lack of competition on the market and therefore limited freedom of choice for the customer.

Tim Cook said: "Then have your mother to buy an iPhone" (approximately)
He could also have said: "We make the rules. Eat them and don’t bother me."
 
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