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Ludatyk

macrumors 603
May 27, 2012
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I try to give him the benefit of doubt. He doesn't know everything about the iPad. He knows a lot of about Shortcuts and web publishing, but other aspects of the iPad, I bet he doesn't really know them that well.
Umm, I don't know. It's just the things he brought up in that article seems suspect... the notion that he's not aware that Share Sheets exist to help decide how to open a different file from the Files app.

Like, I saw a Youtube video where a FCP export wasn't stopped when the user switched away from it, but they were using Stage Manager, which Viticci admits to not using by default. FCP exports being cancelled while in Stage Manager could also be a function of how much RAM is free on an iPad. Perhaps a 16 GB RAM iPad with Stage Manager doesn't have FCP exports cancelled while in background for more cases? What's going on here? I don't know.
Well, the reason why Stage Manager exist is help with background processes... but Federico doesn't like it. So, the very thing that could help with failed background FCP exports... is something that Federico is not too fond of using. That is a problem.

Would actually like to know what the Stage Manager multitasking characteristics are. It's been 2 years, and the Apple media-sphere obviously have no desire to cover it, test it, etc. Really, what is happening to the page-file when the user enters and exits Stage Manager?
There are YT content out there explaining Stage Manager and I find it fairly simple navigating around it... but the windowing environment is not what users find in a traditional OS. That's why there's so many "let's add macOS onto an iPad" request.

Having the Show Recent Apps on the right side where groups of windows displayed... moving windows/app in and out of a stage. While determining how to add a duplicate window/app in a current stage... these actions can seem odd coming from Windows/macOS users.
 
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Pakaku

macrumors 68040
Aug 29, 2009
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In some applications, AI is just a fad, but in many it’s very useful. Apple’s AI integration looks like it will be very useful.
I'm not sure contributing to an energy crisis, to fuel a plagiarism machine, just to generate half-assed results, is my idea of "useful"
 

Kal Madda

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Nov 2, 2022
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I'm not sure contributing to an energy crisis, to fuel a plagiarism machine, just to generate half-assed results, is my idea of "useful"
Apple’s AI integration isn’t just a “plagiarism machine”.
 

fw85

macrumors regular
Jun 22, 2023
169
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I'm not sure contributing to an energy crisis, to fuel a plagiarism machine, just to generate half-assed results, is my idea of "useful"
I think you may have gotten some AI fatigue from all the buzzwords and marketing, which now makes you antagonistic to anything remotely related, useful or not.
 
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Razorpit

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2021
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I was just giving a single example out of many as to how Apple puts as many roadblocks and restrictions on iPad users, it was not meant to be a complaint about only the audio stack.

I think we’re missing a deeper question here. Why are so many third parties borking their iPad apps? iPhones generally don’t have this issue (Microsoft aside as they actually bork apps on all mobile platforms), Mac definitely doesn’t have that issue to the degree the iPad does. What is it about the iPad that third party devs treat it so shoddily? Surely there’s no good incentive for Adobe to make their products worse on iPad than other platforms.

What can Apple do to turn this around? Because it’s all fine and good to say our issues are coming from third parties but third parties have no responsibility to make the iPad a great platform, Apple does.
A better example, the number of apps that are out there that still don’t have a landscape mode. 🤬
 

richpjr

macrumors 68040
May 9, 2006
3,763
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I'm not sure contributing to an energy crisis, to fuel a plagiarism machine, just to generate half-assed results, is my idea of "useful"
In the next few years AI will fundamentally change the world in ways people cannot even imagine yet.
 
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bondr006

macrumors 68030
Jun 8, 2010
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Cary, NC - My Name is Rob Bond
iPadOS 18 is a great update, besides all of the complaining it didn’t “push the needle” or whatever for some people. The customizable Control Center will basically add the functionality of macOS Menu Bar Apps to iPadOS. The new Settings app design is great, and Apple Intelligence is going to be huge. Just the few workflows they demonstrated with it show it is likely going to revolutionize multitasking on iPadOS. Sadly, we have to wait till fall to test the AI integration, but from what I’ve seen, I’m convinced this will be game changing. I think people are only looking at the features specific to iPad, and forgetting the big picture with Apple Intelligence. And even with the new features available in the first beta of iPadOS 18, I’m happy with this update.

Something missed in the shuffle is also that Apple just added a ton of new features and tools in Swift that will make it easier for App developers to port their software with Swift, and provide more desktop-class apps. Even the top page of the iPadOS 18 Developer page is encouraging developers to provide dekstop-class apps and experiences for iPadOS. Apple is definitely pushing for developers to add desktop-level functionality into their apps.

Also, so far the first developer beta has given me better battery runtime than what I was getting on the latest public version of iPadOS 17. It seems like Apple improved stability and efficiency this go round, which makes sense with the fact they paused development to specifically address bugs. Not every update can be earth shattering. Though I think Apple Intelligence is the big part of the story we’re not seeing yet, and I think it will absolutely revolutionize the experience. 👍🏻
As soon as the first Public Beta comes out, I'm in with my iPad. (Most likely sometime this month) My old 13PM will wait till the official release comes out because it will not get all the features, including Apple AI:(. My M1 iPad Pro 11 will get all the features though, and I am stoked.


 
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bondr006

macrumors 68030
Jun 8, 2010
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There are major workflow problems in iPadOS with things like saving files, opening files, print workflows, etc. iPadOS should not mimic macOS, because it should be a touch first UX. But, more attention needs to be paid to how a user can complete processes. For example, right now it is way faster and easier for me to add PDFs to iBooks, or save them to a folder, on Mac compared to iPad. That does not need to be the case, and has nothing to do with traffic light buttons.
That's simply not true. I find it's just as easy on the iPad to add pdf's to iBooks, or move them(or any other file for that matter) to another folder as it is on Mac or PC. In fact, I find it dead simple.....


Forgot to show that you can copy and paste from on folder to another, or from another device just as easily.

IMG_2048.jpg


IMG_2049.jpg
 
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dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
11,121
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Sage, Lightning, and Mountains
It should become clearer as we get closer to Sep and beyond, whether the Apple Intelligence features will be built in or whether we can select which ones to turn on and use. Personally I hope that I can determine where I want the functionality and where I don’t instead of being forced to use it.
 

Aenean144

macrumors member
Dec 16, 2017
45
91
Umm, I don't know. It's just the things he brought up in that article seems suspect... the notion that he's not aware that Share Sheets exist to help decide how to open a different file from the Files app.
Yeah, it would be very surprising if he doesn't know about the Share menu. However, a bit of an anecdote. I just heard Gruber's podcast with Quinn Nelson (Snazzy Labs Youtuber), and they were talking about iPadOS. It appears that Quinn Nelson does not know how to change the file extension of a filename in the Files app. That's pretty nutty for him not to know how, and Gruber didn't seem to know as he didn't respond with how.

So, these guys' expertise is pretty narrow. You could use an iPad for years and not know how to use many of the features it offers. I'm pretty sure all of the famous Apple mediarati like Viticci doesn't know much about use the virtual keyboard and various gestures nor the Apple Pencil because they use the iPad with external keyboard and mouse most of the time. Maybe Viticci only uses the Share menu when using Shortcuts and has never used it to deal with opening files in other apps?

There are YT content out there explaining Stage Manager and I find it fairly simple navigating around it... but the windowing environment is not what users find in a traditional OS. That's why there's so many "let's add macOS onto an iPad" request.

Having the Show Recent Apps on the right side where groups of windows displayed... moving windows/app in and out of a stage. While determining how to add a duplicate window/app in a current stage... these actions can seem odd coming from Windows/macOS users.
Stage Manager breaks a cardinal rule of UI design where it moves windows without user interaction. The auto-arranging of windows is simply a no-no as it disorients users. Same with the 4 window limit per stage. Stage Manager auto moves the least used app to a stage when new window comes into a stage to maintain the 4 window limit. This is simply a nutty set of decisions that Apple is making. So, the negative reaction is understandable.

That's not really what I want to know though. I want to know the background multitasking characteristics. I have 10 GB of files that's being downloaded from Google Drive. It's going to take 15 minutes. If I switch away from it and use another app, will it continue to download? What if it is in another stage, does it continue downloading? If I have a terminal emulator with an SSH session, does it stay connected when it is in the background?
 
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Ludatyk

macrumors 603
May 27, 2012
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Texas
Yeah, it would be very surprising if he doesn't know about the Share menu. However, a bit of an anecdote. I just heard Gruber's podcast with Quinn Nelson (Snazzy Labs Youtuber), and they were talking about iPadOS. It appears that Quinn Nelson does not know how to change the file extension of a filename in the Files app. That's pretty nutty for him not to know how, and Gruber didn't seem to know as he didn't respond with how.
Gruber is known to be a Mac guy... he favors the "one app at a time" traditional style of an iPad. He once criticized Apple for not having an option to turn off multitasking, if it was up to him... the iPad wouldn't progress much.

Basically, iPadOS doesn't need any more improvements... give him an iPad Mini with OLED screen, that would be prefect for him.

I'm pretty sure all of the famous Apple mediarati like Viticci doesn't know much about use the virtual keyboard and various gestures nor the Apple Pencil because they use the iPad with external keyboard and mouse most of the time. Maybe Viticci only uses the Share menu when using Shortcuts and has never used it to deal with opening files in other apps?
Perhaps, your right. But seems strange coming from an individual who's known to be an iPad guru.

Stage Manager breaks a cardinal rule of UI design where it moves windows without user interaction. The auto-arranging of windows is simply a no-no as it disorients users. Same with the 4 window limit per stage. Stage Manager auto moves the least used app to a stage when new window comes into a stage to maintain the 4 window limit. This is simply a nutty set of decisions that Apple is making. So, the negative reaction is understandable.
To be fair, it's a small screen. And Stage Manager doesn't really do too much of auto-arranging... only when it comes to limiting 4 limit per stage. Now, when it first launched... Apple controlled it way too much. There was a lack of user-control... but now they have loosened the restraints.

Now I do believe if hooked up to an external monitor Apple should remove that limit.

I have 10 GB of files that's being downloaded from Google Drive. It's going to take 15 minutes. If I switch away from it and use another app, will it continue to download? What if it is in another stage, does it continue downloading? If I have a terminal emulator with an SSH session, does it stay connected when it is in the background?
As far as I know, whenever you are in a stage... those apps stay in action. It's when you go to a different stage, they are inactive. Essentially, it's no different from pre-existing multitasking. Whatever that's actively displayed on screen... stays in use.

Recent App area (on the right side) exist to quickly get in and out of apps... it's not necessarily to keep apps active. So, if I'm doing something that I know need an extended background use... I'd keep it on stage and bring whatever apps I want to use in that stage.
 

dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
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Sage, Lightning, and Mountains
Gruber is known to be a Mac guy... he favors the "one app at a time" traditional style of an iPad. He once criticized Apple for not having an option to turn off multitasking, if it was up to him... the iPad wouldn't progress much.

Basically, iPadOS doesn't need any more improvements... give him an iPad Mini with OLED screen, that would be prefect for him.


Perhaps, your right. But seems strange coming from an individual who's known to be an iPad guru.


To be fair, it's a small screen. And Stage Manager doesn't really do too much of auto-arranging... only when it comes to limiting 4 limit per stage. Now, when it first launched... Apple controlled it way too much. There was a lack of user-control... but now they have loosened the restraints.

Now I do believe if hooked up to an external monitor Apple should remove that limit.


As far as I know, whenever you are in a stage... those apps stay in action. It's when you go to a different stage, they are inactive. Essentially, it's no different from pre-existing multitasking. Whatever that's actively displayed on screen... stays in use.

Recent App area (on the right side) exist to quickly get in and out of apps... it's not necessarily to keep apps active. So, if I'm doing something that I know need an extended background use... I'd keep it on stage and bring whatever apps I want to use in that stage.

I have found for some files, whether from Files, or Proton Drive, or…. If I put it into Slide Over it keeps doing what it was doing. Mostly. Sometimes file transfers just stop with no indication that it has or why.
 

Ludatyk

macrumors 603
May 27, 2012
5,955
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Texas
I have found for some files, whether from Files, or Proton Drive, or…. If I put it into Slide Over it keeps doing what it was doing. Mostly. Sometimes file transfers just stop with no indication that it has or why.
There is a file transfer progress indicator... that tells you whether it went successful or not.

I don't understand why folks keep saying that file transfers stops or crashes, what version of iPadOS are you guys running? What model iPad is it? What SSD? Because I'm not getting these kinds of experiences.

I have a thunderbolt 4 cable, using T7 shield... and I can't recall any time I've ran into issues lately. I transferred 700gb worth of storage from an iPad to external drive... without any issues.
 

Aenean144

macrumors member
Dec 16, 2017
45
91
I have found for some files, whether from Files, or Proton Drive, or…. If I put it into Slide Over it keeps doing what it was doing. Mostly. Sometimes file transfers just stop with no indication that it has or why.
For file downloads, uploads and transfers, app developers can perform those operations in the background, even without Split View, Slide Over or Stage Manager. For some apps, you should be able to start a download, put it in background, and the download should be happening at a low priority, even if the app has been suspended or shut down while in backgroun. It has to be specifically coded so. Suffice it to say, not all applications are coded as such.

With Split View and Slide Over, 3 apps should be live. Not sure what happens if an app in Slide Over is in its hidden state though.

From what I can tell, Stage Manager lets 4 apps per display stay live. 4 of them will keep running as long as their display is onscreen. If apps are on a different stage, they will get suspended. With external displays and Stage Manager, that should make for 8 apps, 4 per stage per display, that stay live.

Would be a lot better if Apple lets each stage in Stage Manager to have like 10 windows, maybe 15. 4 is entirely too limiting. I don't think it would use more power at all. Would make for more difficult window management, but it's not like Apple hasn't had multiple solutions for this for decades running now.
 
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dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
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Sage, Lightning, and Mountains
There is a file transfer progress indicator... that tells you whether it went successful or not.

I don't understand why folks keep saying that file transfers stops or crashes, what version of iPadOS are you guys running? What model iPad is it? What SSD? Because I'm not getting these kinds of experiences.

I have a thunderbolt 4 cable, using T7 shield... and I can't recall any time I've ran into issues lately. I transferred 700gb worth of storage from an iPad to external drive... without any issues.

iPad Pro 11 M4. My M1 did the same. 15 ProMax does the same.
It isn’t so much that it crashes, it mostly just stops. There is no corresponding Analytics entry.

Example: I have a large file I am transferring to Proton Drive. I start it and open Kindle while I am waiting for it to finish. Or maybe “X”. Or maybe an MS Office app…. Sometimes it works. Sometimes not.

The frustration thing is on my MBP, Galaxy Book, Thinkpad … it works every single time.
 

dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
11,121
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Sage, Lightning, and Mountains
For file downloads, uploads and transfers, app developers can perform those operations in the background, even without Split View, Slide Over or Stage Manager. For some apps, you should be able to start a download, put it in background, and the download should be happening at a low priority, even if the app has been suspended or shut down while in backgroun. It has to be specifically coded so. Suffice it to say, not all applications are coded as such.

With Split View and Slide Over, 3 apps should be live. Not sure what happens if an app in Slide Over is in its hidden state though.

From what I can tell, Stage Manager lets 4 apps per display stay live. 4 of them will keep running as long as their display is onscreen. If apps are on a different stage, they will get suspended. With external displays and Stage Manager, that should make for 8 apps, 4 per stage per display, that stay live.

Would be a lot better if Apple lets each stage in Stage Manager to have like 10 windows, maybe 15. 4 is entirely too limiting. I don't think it would use more power at all. Would make for more difficult window management, but it's not like Apple hasn't had multiple solutions for this for decades running now.

I don’t use SM. I use the three dots at top in Split View mostly. I do a good bit of two window stuff but have not found it to be good enough to handle more than that.
 

Kal Madda

macrumors 68000
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Nov 2, 2022
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I don’t use SM. I use the three dots at top in Split View mostly. I do a good bit of two window stuff but have not found it to be good enough to handle more than that.
Without using Stage Manager, I would agree with you that two window workflows work best (though slideover is very handy). But I use Stage Manager all the time, I haven’t switched back since I switched it on originally. It definitely does enable more complex multitasking, and many apps will stay cached even in other stages. I routinely switch between separate stages such as one with Affinity Photo and other related apps, one with Affinity Designer and a couple other apps, one with Safari, Notes, and other miscellaneous apps, and none of them are binned and have to reload. Occasionally the current web page open in Safari will refresh, but often it doesn’t. And that’s with an 8GB M1 iPad. I’m suspecting a 16GB configuration would perform even better.
 

Ludatyk

macrumors 603
May 27, 2012
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iPad Pro 11 M4. My M1 did the same. 15 ProMax does the same.
It isn’t so much that it crashes, it mostly just stops. There is no corresponding Analytics entry.

Example: I have a large file I am transferring to Proton Drive. I start it and open Kindle while I am waiting for it to finish. Or maybe “X”. Or maybe an MS Office app…. Sometimes it works. Sometimes not.

The frustration thing is on my MBP, Galaxy Book, Thinkpad … it works every single time.
Based on your example, are you using the Files app to transfer a large file to the Proton Drive app? I assume you are using Split View or Slide Over. Never used the Proton Drive app... I'm guessing it can plug-in to the Files app.

And I use my MBP, Galaxy Fold and MiniPC... transferring files is just as reliable as those devices. I do quite a bit of transfers to Google Drive when it comes to exporting Photoshop files and I don't have an issue... no scenario where it just stops. From cloud to external drive transfers... it goes on without a hiccup.
 
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dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
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Without using Stage Manager, I would agree with you that two window workflows work best (though slideover is very handy). But I use Stage Manager all the time, I haven’t switched back since I switched it on originally. It definitely does enable more complex multitasking, and many apps will stay cached even in other stages. I routinely switch between separate stages such as one with Affinity Photo and other related apps, one with Affinity Designer and a couple other apps, one with Safari, Notes, and other miscellaneous apps, and none of them are binned and have to reload. Occasionally the current web page open in Safari will refresh, but often it doesn’t. And that’s with an 8GB M1 iPad. I’m suspecting a 16GB configuration would perform even better.

I tried SM and found the app placement (or app roll off) inconsistent as I can go through a number of files (usually doc review, process flows, code, or presentation review). Maybe at some point I’ll give SM another try. For now, split or slide works best for my use case.
 
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dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
11,121
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Sage, Lightning, and Mountains
Based on your example, are you using the Files app to transfer a large file to the Proton Drive app? I assume you are using Split View or Slide Over. Never used the Proton Drive app... I'm guessing it can plug-in to the Files app.

And I use my MBP, Galaxy Fold and MiniPC... transferring files is just as reliable as those devices. I do quite a bit of transfers to Google Drive when it comes to exporting Photoshop files and I don't have an issue... no scenario where it just stops. From cloud to external drive transfers... it goes on without a hiccup.

Thx.
I tend to use Files as it allows me to select what cloud (Proton, OneDrive, Dropbox) drive or SSD if connected.
Using Proton to upload/download a file is decent but destination is limited so I tend to do via files. Most of then are like that. Google drive I am using to filter and move things to other drives. Legacy cloud.

Love Files in slide over. I can be doing something having Files in SO and pull it out as needed.
 
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