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subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
6,246
6,719
Contrary to you, I take a much more cynical view on Apple, which is indeed free to do whatever they it's best for...them.
Which means that in those fields where they don't have much competition, offer the solutions that make the most money for them (for instance trying to avoid overlapping important features that would lead to some people using only one device instead of 2). Again this works only when you are good/unique enough that you can afford to do this, for instance because of a strong ecosystem and products that in some categories are way ahead of (a much more fragmented) competition.
So in short they don't always have to do what's best / most cost efficient for the client, as long as competition is not an issue (and despite what some people say, it's not...).
And you can be at the same time cynical and buy and enjoy their products, even while knowing very well why they maintain certain (often artificial) limitations
It’s true that if there’s no competition, a company has no financial motivation to change. And the iPad fills a market with not too much competition—maybe fire tablets and chromebooks take away the most sales. But I believe the theoretical Mac-like tablet would be a different product with a different market, one that is already occupied, solely, with Windows tablets. Again, to me the best evidence that a desktop-like OS tablet may not be intrinsically better for the vast majority is that despite having zero competition, and despite Windows being the most ubiquitous productivity platform in the world, and despite there being many Windows tablet options on the market, and despite Microsoft giving it a lot of effort for many years, I don’t see a lot of Windows tablets in the wild, and I almost never see them used as tablets.

To me that says it’s a very small market, and I don’t think Apple or any company can be faulted for not wanting to enter a small market (again, even though I’m in that market). I guess that can be interpreted as Apple not being willing to do what’s best for those particular customers, but again to me that is the more cynical view. I don’t see Apple doing anything unusual. No company is out to minimize profits. So perhaps my cynicism is more evenly spread to all companies.
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,640
4,468
It’s true that if there’s no competition, a company has no financial motivation to change. And the iPad fills a market with not too much competition—maybe fire tablets and chromebooks take away the most sales. But I believe the theoretical Mac-like tablet would be a different product with a different market, one that is already occupied, solely, with Windows tablets. Again, to me the best evidence that a desktop-like OS tablet may not be intrinsically better for the vast majority is that despite having zero competition, and despite Windows being the most ubiquitous productivity platform in the world, and despite there being many Windows tablet options on the market, and despite Microsoft giving it a lot of effort for many years, I don’t see a lot of Windows tablets in the wild, and I almost never see them used as tablets.

To me that says it’s a very small market, and I don’t think Apple or any company can be faulted for not wanting to enter a small market (again, even though I’m in that market). I guess that can be interpreted as Apple not being willing to do what’s best for those particular customers, but again to me that is the more cynical view. I don’t see Apple doing anything unusual. No company is out to minimize profits. So perhaps my cynicism is more evenly spread to all companies.
I disagree with your assumptions about Microsoft and Windows for several reasons....
First, as a famous Microsoft tech writer once said, it's easier for a mobile system to become more similar to a desktop one than for a desktop one to become more similar to a mobile one.
Second, X86 has always been a big handicap that has prevented Microsoft from competing in the tablet arena. They knew it and they tried ARM in 2012-2013 but it failed, just like Windows mobile, for several reasons that I could explain (I was one of the users) but it's beside the point here.
X86 has meant the the Surface is either a heavy and hot device or a small and sluggish device with poor battery life....
Not even close to iPad pro, especially over the last couple of years...
In addition to that huge handicap, MS themselves have screwed big time by never being able to compete on the other hardware aspects, like speakers and bezels. They started somewhat doing that with the Pro X, but the pro X is handicapped by an overpriced and underpowered Qualcomm chip, that should have been used in a surface go instead, if it weren't that expensive.... No wonder it's not a successful product...
So it's a completely different universe that cannot be used as an argument to justify why the iPad pro should just stay a simple mobile device and nothing more...
 

gjlamb

macrumors newbie
Jun 2, 2015
11
8
Very much enjoyed this thread. Very interesting and typical points of view.

Im in a similar quandary as the OP. I do really like (it’s short of love at the moment) my iPad Pro. I too could do all my work on the iPad if I forced it. I work as a Sys Admin and pretty much everything is cloud/browser based. I have access to Azure VMs that I can use to run things like Powershell.

However, it would all be fantastic if when I plug my iPad into an external monitor, I could use the whole screen and not just the 3:2 image from the iPad with big black bars on the sides. For me, that’s the only reason to have a desktop computer in case I want to run on a big screen using multiple windows that are all open and not in some intricate multitasking formation. This I believe is something that should be easily resolved but Apple would then be cannibalising sales if my iPad could truly be a computer with external monitor, keyboard and mouse.

I have a Chromebook. I’ve tried Galaxy Tabs with Dex. Theres always something a little missing.

Windows 11 is nowhere near as touch friendly as iOS or Android. But having Android apps running on Windows sounds like a match made in heaven. Some apps I use every day are just better in mobile form. Developers just don’t add the same things on web/PWA that they do in mobile apps (feedly, Duolingo, Candy Crush :) )

Unfortunately it seems that reviews on Surface Pro X is very varied. Between battery life and performance, both SQ1 and SQ2 versions need some big updates. Hopefully the next version will be the kicker and Microsoft finally pulls their finger out and gets Android apps running on Win11 including sideloading all other apps not on the Amazon store.
 
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RadioHedgeFund

Cancelled
Sep 11, 2018
422
869
Very much enjoyed this thread. Very interesting and typical points of view.

Im in a similar quandary as the OP. I do really like (it’s short of love at the moment) my iPad Pro. I too could do all my work on the iPad if I forced it. I work as a Sys Admin and pretty much everything is cloud/browser based. I have access to Azure VMs that I can use to run things like Powershell.

However, it would all be fantastic if when I plug my iPad into an external monitor, I could use the whole screen and not just the 3:2 image from the iPad with big black bars on the sides. For me, that’s the only reason to have a desktop computer in case I want to run on a big screen using multiple windows that are all open and not in some intricate multitasking formation. This I believe is something that should be easily resolved but Apple would then be cannibalising sales if my iPad could truly be a computer with external monitor, keyboard and mouse.

I have a Chromebook. I’ve tried Galaxy Tabs with Dex. Theres always something a little missing.

Windows 11 is nowhere near as touch friendly as iOS or Android. But having Android apps running on Windows sounds like a match made in heaven. Some apps I use every day are just better in mobile form. Developers just don’t add the same things on web/PWA that they do in mobile apps (feedly, Duolingo, Candy Crush :) )

Unfortunately it seems that reviews on Surface Pro X is very varied. Between battery life and performance, both SQ1 and SQ2 versions need some big updates. Hopefully the next version will be the kicker and Microsoft finally pulls their finger out and gets Android apps running on Win11 including sideloading all other apps not on the Amazon store.
I’ve never found web apps to be a sufficient replacement for something purpose built. Anyone who has pulled their teeth out trying to edit a photograph with layers on Chrome will know what I’m talking about.

But then again I also find the touch interface of the iPad to be faster and more intuitive than poking around with a mouse. The pencil is much better for finer manipulation than a mouse and a lot less RSI inducing. I also find I can type on the touchscreen keyboard just as fast as a physical one.

It is the hardware combo I find best value. I got my iPad Pro through work because I wanted a Lidar scanner that wasn’t £10,000. But I have found being able to record experiments with it in 4k, take photos for design work and then just scribble straight over the top and the plug-in to all my existing Apple services to be unbeatable.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,141
7,117
When will Apple fix the single audio source issue? It’s impossible for me to listen to music/podcasts while browsing the web since there are ads - even if no audio comes from them. Even if I use Brave which blocks the ads it happens.
 
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gjlamb

macrumors newbie
Jun 2, 2015
11
8
When will Apple fix the single audio source issue? It’s impossible for me to listen to music/podcasts while browsing the web since there are ads - even if no audio comes from them. Even if I use Brave which blocks the ads it happens.
Seems like the same issue that made me get rid of my Mac Mini. Couldn’t resolve it and it got me so angry.

If I was watching YouTube in Safari, and often in other browsers, when a notification came in, the audio would stop in Safari an if I paused and resumed the video it would fast forward to the end of the video. It made my blood boil.

Went to running all my work tasks on work supplied Dell 5310 2 in 1.

@RadioHedgeFund I hear you about the Pencil. Noticed yesterday my Safari bookmarks are totally screwed up. Multiple copy’s of links in folders within folders within folders. The Pencil was so handy dragging and dropping and deleting items.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,141
7,117
Seems like the same issue that made me get rid of my Mac Mini. Couldn’t resolve it and it got me so angry.

If I was watching YouTube in Safari, and often in other browsers, when a notification came in, the audio would stop in Safari an if I paused and resumed the video it would fast forward to the end of the video. It made my blood boil.
That is interesting! I have never had any issue with Safari or any program at all on macOS. I can have a lot of programs generate audio with no problems. But iPadOS and iOS, I can barely browse online and listen to music/podcasts.
 
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Mendota

macrumors 6502a
Jan 9, 2019
617
1,209
Omaha
Well, contrary to what some have said here, I enjoy Windows on my tablets, and wish like many that MacOS was available on a tablet. Mobile tablets are fine, and I have both iOS and Android, but nothing beats my full desktop programs. Procreate is nice... Corel Painter, even Painter essentials blows Procreate out of the Water. The same can be said for Rebelle. Now that many companies are getting on board with MacOS, even the M1, I very much wish there was a Mac tablet.

In addition, the way Apple treats developers is beginning to cause issues. When developers can't charge for updates that leads to unfortunate outcomes. 1. Many developers start to run out of enough revenue to add meaningful new features (an example is the latest coming from the afore mentioned Procreate. The latest updates have been underwhelming), and 2. More and more developers are jumping on the subscription model. I don't mind subs, but there is a limit to how many I want to have.
 
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