iPad iPadOS is severely holding the iPad back... and Microsoft is going to save us...

[macOS Lynx]

I agree that the ipad still needs more functionality, but I find that the Microsoft surface tablet does not meeting my vision of tablet computing either. It’s too much like a conventional laptop, and I love my ipad precisely because it is nothing like a PC.

For better and for worse, I like that iPadOS lets me just work without having to contend with any of the complexities of a legacy desktop OS (which includes both windows and macOS). I still own a Mac and use it for work, and I also appreciate the simplicity of iOS whenever I can get away with using it for work.

Fully agree.

i love using my iPad *because* it’s not a Mac. I don’t want my iPad to be a Mac, or a Surface like device. I want it to be an iPad. I want them to add features as they fit with the iPad. There’s room to improve, but there’s always room to improve. Look at how multitasking has grown from iOS 11 to iPadOS 15 for example.

I’m down to make the iPad even more computer-like, but I definitely don’t want just a Mac with a touchscreen.

 

[Abazigal]

Fully agree.

i love using my iPad *because* it’s not a Mac. I don’t want my iPad to be a Mac, or a Surface like device. I want it to be an iPad. I want them to add features as they fit with the iPad. There’s room to improve, but there’s always room to improve. Look at how multitasking has grown from iOS 11 to iPadOS 15 for example.

I’m down to make the iPad even more computer-like, but I definitely don’t want just a Mac with a touchscreen.

I concur. I find that given how we are currently in our third redesign of the multitasking feature on iPads, it just goes to show how tricky it is to rethink existing desktop features for a tablet where you can’t assume users will always have access to a keyboard or mouse.

So I believe the reason why productivity features are so slow to come to the ipad is due to the challenge of implementing them in such a manner that you don’t alienate the majority of users who are happily using their iPads solely as a tablet, just to placate the minority of users who want macOS on an ipad.

I am glad Apple at least knows when to hold the line.

 

[kc9hzn]

On Windows you can run Painter, Rebelle, 3D studio Max, etc. Let's not get carried away. I like Procreate, but it can't began to hold the light to Corel Painter or Rebelle. In addition Clip Studio Paint coming to Android changes the landscape in as far as professional digital art for that platform.

I think the original poster’s point was that those Windows pro apps don’t work at all on a Chromebook and don’t run well on a cheap laptop running Windows 10S, yet apps like Procreate run pretty OK on a current gen entry level iPad (which retails for ~$350). It’s a price for price comparison, the entry level iPad is so much more functional than any other machine at its price point, and that the iPad range gets better from there (wrt performance).

 

[kc9hzn]

I thought Microsoft announced support for Android apps currently running on Amazon products, not everything.

Right, I hardly call going through the Amazon App Store first class support for Android apps. Google Play + the ability to sideload, yeah, that would be first class, at least in terms of what most Android devices can do. It’s more like Microsoft’s answer to being able to run iOS apps on M1 based Macs.

 

[UBS28]

I quit using Files some time ago, switching to FileBroswer Pro.

Me too. The Files app is a complete joke. Luckly there is FileBrowser Pro.

 

[Ludatyk]

Me too. The Files app is a complete joke. Luckly there is FileBrowser Pro.

I use both. I put most of my local files on FileBrowser... however, Files app gives me more flexibility in terms of moving files to various apps.

Unless I'm missing something... when transferring files from an external drive, FileBrowser doesn't give me a progress indicator like the Files app.

 

[sparksd]

I use both. I put most of my local files on FileBrowser... however, Files app gives me more flexibility in terms of moving files to various apps.

Unless I'm missing something... when transferring files from an external drive, FileBrowser doesn't give me a progress indicator like the Files app.

FB doesn't give a progress indicator but on the flip side, I know the file won't be corrupted.

 

[Ludatyk]

FB doesn't give a progress indicator but on the flip side, I know the file won't be corrupted.

Thats true. But what I found out… when transferring files from my external drive to iPad, files won’t get corrupted. However, when transferring files from my iPad to an external drive… that’s when I run into issues. At this point… the only way I transfer files out of my iPad is through PC (iExplorer).

 

[sparksd]

Thats true. But what I found out… when transferring files from my external drive to iPad, files won’t get corrupted. However, when transferring files from my iPad to an external drive… that’s when I run into issues. At this point… the only way I transfer files out of my iPad is through PC (iExplorer).

I do transfers out using SMB connections from FileBrowser. The corruptions I see are on copies to external storage with Files but I've also run into file copy problems (failed or hanging transfers) over SMB with it. As you say, it's great for copying between apps on the iPad and this point, that's all I will trust it with.

 

[sracer]

Fully agree.

i love using my iPad *because* it’s not a Mac. I don’t want my iPad to be a Mac, or a Surface like device. I want it to be an iPad. I want them to add features as they fit with the iPad. There’s room to improve, but there’s always room to improve. Look at how multitasking has grown from iOS 11 to iPadOS 15 for example.

I’m down to make the iPad even more computer-like, but I definitely don’t want just a Mac with a touchscreen.

This is a good thought. But I wouldn't use multitasking under iOS as a good example. With each version, multitasking changed dramatically. The improvements from 11 to 15 didn't warrant the muscle memory re-learning.

I'd point to Samsung's One UI + DeX as a model for how to have a single OS act as a tablet experience and desktop experience in one device.

If Apple were to implement something similar where I could use an iPad Pro as a tablet, but with a tap of a hot-key combo, turn it into a MacOS-like experience, I'd pay serious money for that setup. Not MacOS itself (still iPadOS), but a user experience comparable to it.

 

[macOS Lynx]

This is a good thought. But I wouldn't use multitasking under iOS as a good example. With each version, multitasking changed dramatically. The improvements from 11 to 15 didn't warrant the muscle memory re-learning.

I'd point to Samsung's One UI + DeX as a model for how to have a single OS act as a tablet experience and desktop experience in one device.

If Apple were to implement something similar where I could use an iPad Pro as a tablet, but with a tap of a hot-key combo, turn it into a MacOS-like experience, I'd pay serious money for that setup. Not MacOS itself (still iPadOS), but a user experience comparable to it.

Muscle memory relearning? Multitasking changing dramatically?

The basic method of multitasking has been the same since iOS 11: When you’re in an app, you swipe to go home, press and hold the app, then go back into that app and drop the app. Every single version of iOS (and later on iPadOS) has improved upon this. For example iPadOS 13 made it much easier to swap between apps in Slide Over. iPadOS 15 adds a few tweaks to make it more intuitive. The only time multitasking changed dramatically was iOS 9 and iOS 10.

If people want to experience macOS on a touchscreen device, then they should make a touchscreen MacBook, but I don’t want them to change how the iPad works fundamentally. I like how the iPad is still an iPad when I connect it to my Magic Keyboard, just with minor reconfiguration so that the iPad’s interface still works with a keyboard and mouse. I’m personally NOT looking for a device that turns into a Mac (visually or literally) when I add a keyboard and mouse. If I wanted that, then I would’ve just kept my Mac.

 

[sracer]

Muscle memory relearning? Multitasking changing dramatically?

The basic method of multitasking has been the same since iOS 11: When you’re in an app, you swipe to go home, press and hold the app, then go back into that app and drop the app. Every single version of iOS (and later on iPadOS) has improved upon this. For example iPadOS 13 made it much easier to swap between apps in Slide Over. iPadOS 15 adds a few tweaks to make it more intuitive. The only time multitasking changed dramatically was iOS 9 and iOS 10.

If people want to experience macOS on a touchscreen device, then they should make a touchscreen MacBook, but I don’t want them to change how the iPad works fundamentally. I like how the iPad is still an iPad when I connect it to my Magic Keyboard, just with minor reconfiguration so that the iPad’s interface still works with a keyboard and mouse. I’m personally NOT looking for a device that turns into a Mac (visually or literally) when I add a keyboard and mouse. If I wanted that, then I would’ve just kept my Mac.

That's the beauty of how Android works with One UI and DeX. A person who wants their tablet to behave as a tablet (touch-first interface) can do so unimpeded. If another person wants to add a keyboard for easier data entry, they can do that (without interfering with the touch-first interface). If a third person wants to introduce a point device to the mix, they can do that while still maintaining the tablet nature of the device.

For the fourth person who wants to have overlapping, draggable windows on their tablet, maybe even with extended external display support, they can press a hot-key on the keyboard and have a desktop-like user experience. It's still Android, but behaves like a desktop OS which can be very helpful for productivity.

In all of these scenarios, a person isn't forced into one of the other scenarios, and the existence of those other options doesn't impeded the use of the preferred option. But I understand that some people are irritated that choices are available.

Google and Samsung have been able to do it, but due to the underlying structure of iOS, Apple will have a difficult time to accomplish something similar.

 

[Digitalguy]

That's the beauty of how Android works with One UI and DeX. A person who wants their tablet to behave as a tablet (touch-first interface) can do so unimpeded. If another person wants to add a keyboard for easier data entry, they can do that (without interfering with the touch-first interface). If a third person wants to introduce a point device to the mix, they can do that while still maintaining the tablet nature of the device.

For the fourth person who wants to have overlapping, draggable windows on their tablet, maybe even with extended external display support, they can press a hot-key on the keyboard and have a desktop-like user experience. It's still Android, but behaves like a desktop OS which can be very helpful for productivity.

In all of these scenarios, a person isn't forced into one of the other scenarios, and the existence of those other options doesn't impeded the use of the preferred option. But I understand that some people are irritated that choices are available.

Google and Samsung have been able to do it, but due to the underlying structure of iOS, Apple will have a difficult time to accomplish something similar.

Apple could do much better than Samsung and Google if they wanted. They could let people run MacOS when plugged in to a monitor (like DEX used to do, before they let it run on the tablet itself as well) and maybe even plugged in to power (so that iPad purists don't complain that MacOS mode runs down the battery too quickly). But they won't do it because many people might not buy Macs if they can have a Mac on their iPad.
And even without MacOS, Apple has all the resources to figure out a desktop mode (à la Dex and probably more refined) that would offer the full external monitor support that people want (with the iPad still running as a normal iPad in addition to the multitasking on a monitor...). At this point if they did, only the M1 could support it (because it would probably require too much RAM to work properly on other iPads). Maybe they are waiting a couple of years for other iPads to catch up with RAM and then offer this to the whole line... or at least to let it run on a couple of generations of iPad pro (M1, M2 etc.). They are in no hurry anyway, at this point Samsung is not much of a threat to them...

 

[macOS Lynx]

That's the beauty of how Android works with One UI and DeX. A person who wants their tablet to behave as a tablet (touch-first interface) can do so unimpeded. If another person wants to add a keyboard for easier data entry, they can do that (without interfering with the touch-first interface). If a third person wants to introduce a point device to the mix, they can do that while still maintaining the tablet nature of the device.

For the fourth person who wants to have overlapping, draggable windows on their tablet, maybe even with extended external display support, they can press a hot-key on the keyboard and have a desktop-like user experience. It's still Android, but behaves like a desktop OS which can be very helpful for productivity.

In all of these scenarios, a person isn't forced into one of the other scenarios, and the existence of those other options doesn't impeded the use of the preferred option. But I understand that some people are irritated that choices are available.

Google and Samsung have been able to do it, but due to the underlying structure of iOS, Apple will have a difficult time to accomplish something similar.

Yes I am aware of how Dex works. I’ve owned multiple Samsung devices capable of Dex and find it a worse experience than even using a Surface (including in the Galaxy Tab S6 and Galaxy S21), because of the triple digit number of apps that actually make use of such a design. Even Samsung’s own apps scale poorly with Dex half the time.

If Apple did it they would at least know how to make apps be fully featured with both interfaces (like they do with a lot of their own apps).

 

[Internaut]

Had Microsoft stuck with Metro, for tablet mode, while switching to traditional Windows when a keyboard I attached, I think the competitive landscape would be very different right now. As it stands, Apple has no incentive for iOS and macOS to encroach on one and other any more than Apple strictly wants. That’s a pity. All that power in the 2021 iPad Pro feels wasted under iOS as it is at the moment.

 

[grmlin]

I have to disagree here. Windows is a hot mess compared to iPad OS and Macs. WSL is and probably will be forever in beta state. Everything takes ages to be released and the "native" GUI support is a joke. No scaling (as Linux sucks at scaling, not MSs fault), the windows are not native, and so you still have to mess around with Xservers running in Windows and GUI applications running in Linux that feel like weird Zombies.

And Windows 11 is just a Windows 10 theme with breaking changes regarding hardware support. It's still Windows 10, and Windows 8...


At this point I concluded, that it's better to use two devices: the best tablet experience (an iPad) and a laptop/PC/whatever for work. I wouldn't mind if Apple opened up iPad OS so that I can do more with it, but until then I'm a happy user.

 

[Ludatyk]

Apple could do much better than Samsung and Google if they wanted. They could let people run MacOS when plugged in to a monitor (like DEX used to do, before they let it run on the tablet itself as well) and maybe even plugged in to power (so that iPad purists don't complain that MacOS mode runs down the battery too quickly). But they won't do it because many people might not buy Macs if they can have a Mac on their iPad.

I share @macOS Lynx thoughts, I don't want Apple add macOS onto the iPad whether plugged in to a monitor or not... there's a reason why I bought the iPad over the Mac. And if I wanted to buy the Mac...then I would have done so. iPadOS still has room to grow, Apple doesn't need to take any shortcuts in slapping macOS onto the iPad to please the critics.

Yes I am aware of how Dex works. I’ve owned multiple Samsung devices capable of Dex and find it a worse experience than even using a Surface (including in the Galaxy Tab S6 and Galaxy S21), because of the triple digit number of apps that actually make use of such a design. Even Samsung’s own apps scale poorly with Dex half the time.

If Apple did it they would at least know how to make apps be fully featured with both interfaces (like they do with a lot of their own apps).

Currently using Samsung Dex now, I don't have any issues with app scaling poorly. And non-Samsung apps do well when it comes to resizing under Dex.

My only issue with Samsung Dex is I wish they were more features behind it... I wish devs or 3rd party manufactures would embrace it more. And up to this point, I applaud Samsung for sticking with Dex... I'm hoping they do more with it. They announced some type of keyboard for Samsung Dex... for which, I was puzzled by. I'd rather them stick with adding features to Samsung Dex UI.

 

[Digitalguy]

I share @macOS Lynx thoughts, I don't want Apple add macOS onto the iPad whether plugged in to a monitor or not... there's a reason why I bought the iPad over the Mac. And if I wanted to buy the Mac...then I would have done so. iPadOS still has room to grow, Apple doesn't need to take any shortcuts in slapping macOS onto the iPad to please the critics.

Apple doesn't need to take shortcuts because they have no competition, not because they care about iPad purists more than they care those who would like a more productivity focused device. And since there is no sign of anyhting competing with the iPad coming anytime soon Apple will continue to let the iPad pro be just a premium iPad, nothing more. Hopefully at some point they will throw a bone at more productivity focused people and make a decent desktop mode with external monitors

 

[LeonPro]

The iPad Pro with an M1 should have a MacOS loaded as it’s essentially a Mac with a touchscreen capability. That’s what will truly separate an iPad Pro from the rest of the iPad models.

The same way I’ve been using a Dell XPS 13 4K touch screen with Windows 10. If people want to use it as an iPad touch screen, then go ahead. If they want to attach a keyboard and peripherals, why not.

Apple is clearly trying to steer clear of joining those two features out of principle. Once they do an about face, the iPadOS can disappear for the Pro models and use the MacOS. With the kind of processing power it has, Apple is doing a disservice from it’s true potential. I’d love to ditch my MBP 16 for this reason of portability and then resort and sync to the Mac Pro desktop when not on the road.

 

[Ludatyk]

And since there is no sign of anyhting competing with the iPad coming anytime soon Apple will continue to let the iPad pro be just a premium iPad, nothing more.

Those Galaxy Tabs that Samsung has been producing provides competition in the premium segment… although, iPad is the ring leader.

IDC estimates that Apple shipped 12.9 million iPads in the second quarter. Its nearest competition is Samsung, which hit 8 million shipments. Samsung’s Galaxy Tab S7 tabletsoffer fantastic hardware and punchy OLED screens, but they remain hamstrung by Android’s less-than-stellar selection of tablet apps. Lenovo, which continues to release well-received Chromebooks and Chrome OS tablets, took third with 4.7M units shipped, and Amazon came in fourth with 4.3 million Fire tablet shipments.

8 million shipments from Samsung is a good solid number.

That’s what will truly separate an iPad Pro from the rest of the iPad models.

I think your issue is with iPadOS, because from a hardware perspective… iPad Pro does separate from other iPad models. And in that same context, the internals of an iPad Pro can give better results compared to other iPad models when running certain tasks.

 

[Digitalguy]

The iPad Pro with an M1 should have a MacOS loaded as it’s essentially a Mac with a touchscreen capability. That’s what will truly separate an iPad Pro from the rest of the iPad models.

The same way I’ve been using a Dell XPS 13 4K touch screen with Windows 10. If people want to use it as an iPad touch screen, then go ahead. If they want to attach a keyboard and peripherals, why not.

Apple is clearly trying to steer clear of joining those two features out of principle. Once they do an about face, the iPadOS can disappear for the Pro models and use the MacOS. With the kind of processing power it has, Apple is doing a disservice from it’s true potential. I’d love to ditch my MBP 16 for this reason of portability and then resort and sync to the Mac Pro desktop when not on the road.

I don't think iPadOS should disappear, but in an ideal world MacOS should have been an option for iPad pro and I can tell you that it works, since that's how I use my iPad pro all day long, with sidecar. My Mac Mini has no keyboard, just a mouse, since Apple only allows me to use the magic keyboard without the trackpad so I need a mouse... Other than that it's MacOS on iPad with its magic keyboard all day at my desk (with 2 screens, a 22in and the 12.9 of the iPad), works great and it works even with just the iPad screen mirrored in sidecar aspect ratio...
And it's an iPad when disconnected....Best of both worlds.
It doesn't need the Mac, since the M1 has the same guts
But it will never happen because otherwise some people would ditch their Macs...

 

[Digitalguy]

Those Galaxy Tabs that Samsung has been producing provides competition in the premium segment… although, iPad is the ring leader.


8 million shipments from Samsung is a good solid number.


I think your issue is with iPadOS, because from a hardware perspective… iPad Pro does separate from other iPad models. And in that same context, the internals of an iPad Pro can give better results compared to other iPad models when running certain tasks.

I have the Tab S7+ and honestly it's only good for watching movies and streaming... That's the only thing where it's better than the iPad pro. Other than that even the 2018 iPad pro is a much better device, especially with the Magic Keyboard... I don't think Apple considers it much competition if at all... And many of those who bought it would have not bought an iPad anyway... Don't get me wrong, I am glad it exists and I bought it also to support Samsung in its attempt to create some competition, but it's still far behind, and not just in software, also in hardware...
Apple considered competition the Surface pro 3 back then, which was a successful device, that's why they responded with the iPad pro 1.5 years later. But since then the surface pro has not made much progress in its weak point, that is to be a better tablet (both in software and in hardware) so people just use it like a laptop and the only selling point is for those that absolutely want only once device. Otherwise a clamshell and an iPad make much more sense... So it's little competition to iPad pro too nowadays...

 

[LeonPro]

I don't think iPadOS should disappear, but in an ideal world MacOS should have been an option for iPad pro and I can tell you that it works, since that's how I use my iPad pro all day long, with sidecar. My Mac Mini has no keyboard, just a mouse, since Apple only allows me to use the magic keyboard without the trackpad so I need a mouse... Other than that it's MacOS on iPad with its magic keyboard all day at my desk (with 2 screens, a 22in and the 12.9 of the iPad), works great and it works even with just the iPad screen mirrored in sidecar aspect ratio...
And it's an iPad when disconnected....Best of both worlds.
It doesn't need the Mac, since the M1 has the same guts
But it will never happen because otherwise some people would ditch their Macs...

I think for a “pro” model, that’s what will truly distinguish the iPad Pro with the rest. Give it a MacOS. If you need the iPadOS, get the iPad Air. But it’s just wishful thinking.

 

[Digitalguy]

I think for a “pro” model, that’s what will truly distinguish the iPad Pro with the rest. Give it a MacOS. If you need the iPadOS, get the iPad Air. But it’s just wishful thinking.

Again, while I agree that iPad pro should have had the possibility to run MacOS, I don't think that a MacOS only iPad pro would be a good option... Mac OS with touch is just like Windows, usable, but not great (and I know it since I use it with touch in remote desktop). Having both would have been the best of both worlds. They didn't even need to preinstall it, it could have been dowloaded and used just like Windows on Bootcamp... And the argument of "I don't want MacOS on iPad pro" is just like saying pretty selfishly I don't want bootcamp on MacOS because it's a Mac, it's not a Windows PC... well, then just don't use it and let people who need use it...
But as you say, it's wishful thinking...

 

[Ludatyk]

I have the Tab S7+ and honestly it's only good for watching movies and streaming... That's the only thing where it's better than the iPad pro. Other than that even the 2018 iPad pro is a much better device, especially with the Magic Keyboard... I don't think Apple considers it much competition if at all...

I don't agree with that mindset, of course.. Apple considers Tab S7+ competition. Is it a worthy competitor... then yeah, you might have an argument there.

I never owned a Tab S7+ nor any Tab products... but I've seen reviews of them. I think you being a bit disingenuous that it's only good for consumption. On the reddit thread... they are known to be good for Samsung Dex.

I think for a “pro” model, that’s what will truly distinguish the iPad Pro with the rest. Give it a MacOS. If you need the iPadOS, get the iPad Air. But it’s just wishful thinking.

I don't understand how having a different OS has to be on an iPad Pro. What about having a different OS for MacBook Pro? I mean, it is a "pro" model. There's the MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro... there needs to be an OS to differentiate the two, right? Then there's the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro...