Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iPad iPadOS is severely holding the iPad back... and Microsoft is going to save us...
- Thread starter thefriendshipmachine
- Start date
-
- Tags
- competition ipad ipados
- Sort by reaction score
Wacom EMR covers a wide-range of pens, from Wacom Pro Pen 2 to Wacom-powered pens used on Windows laptops and tablets. While Wacom Pro Pen series is top of the line, pens used for laptops and tablets are not in the same class.
Samsung Galaxt tablets do not use EMR, however, they use a different Wacom technology called AES.
There definitely is no consensus that Wacom EMR is considered superior to anything because there are different kinds of EMR pens that vary in performance. But just taking things like activation pressure, pressure curve and angle sensitivity into account, I can tell you that the Pencil objectively beats most of Wacom EMR pens used in laptops and tablets. The exception is the Pro Pen 2, used exclusively with Wacom Intuos Pro/Cintiq/Mobile Studio line, which is comparable and does come with some advantages compared to the Pencil (but also, it comes down to personal taste and iPads are objectively more mobile devices).
Also, Procreate is certainly not a "small application" and what does "power" even mean here? It is used by some of the top illustrators today. Corel Painter, Rebelle, CSP - these are all different apps with different advantages. But, if Procreate is not to your liking, CSP is present on the iPad in all its glory, and actually runs faster and smoother than the desktop version.
BTW, you could (maybe) make a case that the Apple Pencil was "slippery" in its first iteration, 2nd generation is matte and quite grippy. Lol, "many don't care". That is so arbitrary - who is "many"?
Look, at the end of the day, it comes down to personal taste, but having worked with creative professionals for over a decade, I can tell you there definitely is no consensus on which technology is the best, because they all come with advantages and downsides. But I can also tell you that no serious artist underestimates iPad Pros and the Apple Pencil. Of course, forums and "creative groups" will always be biased, but in the realm of people who do this for a living, iPad Pros certainly were disruptive and changed the way a lot of people create art. And the Apple Pencil is considered to be among the best in the industry.
Last edited:
I remember when everyone said this about Windows 8.
Then I remember when everyone said this about the Surface.
I remember when everyone said this about Windows 10.
and I know in 5 years seeing a Surface in the wild will continue to be just as rare as seeing a Bugatti.
Last edited:
On the Samsung Galaxy tab Flex - Windows machine they use EMR.Wacom EMR covers a wide-range of pens, from Wacom Pro Pen 2 to Wacom-powered pens used on Windows laptops and tablets. While Wacom Pro Pen series is top of the line, pens used for laptops and tablets are not in the same class.
Samsung Galaxt tablets do not use EMR, however, they use a different Wacom technology called AES.
There definitely is no consensus that Wacom EMR is considered superior to anything because there are different kinds of EMR pens that vary in performance. But just taking things like activation pressure, pressure curve and angle sensitivity into account, I can tell you that the Pencil objectively beats most of Wacom EMR pens used in laptops and tablets. The exception is the Pro Pen 2, used exclusively with Wacom Intuos Pro/Cintiq/Mobile Studio line, which is comparable and does come with some advantages compared to the Pencil (but also, it comes down to personal taste and iPads are objectively more mobile devices).
Also, Procreate is certainly not a "small application" and what does "power" even mean here? It is used by some of the top illustrators today. Corel Painter, Rebelle, CSP - these are all different apps with different advantages. But, if Procreate is not to your liking, CSP is present on the iPad in all its glory, and actually runs faster and smoother than the desktop version.
BTW, you could (maybe) make a case that the Apple Pencil was "slippery" in its first iteration, 2nd generation is matte and quite grippy. Lol, "many don't care". That is so arbitrary - who is "many"?
Look, at the end of the day, it comes down to personal taste, but having worked with creative professionals for over a decade, I can tell you there definitely is no consensus on which technology is the best, because they all come with advantages and downsides. But I can also tell you that no serious artist underestimates iPad Pros and the Apple Pencil. Of course, forums and "creative groups" will always be biased, but in the realm of people who do this for a living, iPad Pros certainly were disruptive and changed the way a lot of people create art. And the Apple Pencil is considered to be among the best in the industry.
I get the impression that you think I have something against Procreate... I don't. I enjoy the app and I am very impressed with how it has evolved. I do fear for their future as I do with many excellent iPad applications. The developers are hobbled by Apple's app store rules. Right now, Procreate, like many others is only able to generate revenue by new customers. They do not have the advantage of others such as Adobe, Paint store, Rebelle etc of being able to charge for their upgrades. I actually feel guilty about how little I paid for Procreate. I would be more than happy to pay for upgrades.
Keeping with the subject of this thread, I don't know that the iPad needs MacOS, but in order for more developer to come to IOS, and for those that are already there, Apple needs to do more to help them generate income. Taking 30% or 15% of their profits, and only allowing subscription and ads as a means to make money, doesn't help or encourage developers.
So then you are saying that Apple is worthless for professionals? Because based on my workflow it is.
The point I am making is you cannot take one persons opinions and workflow and say that because this doesn’t work the software is holding the hardware back. Running MacOS directly on the iPad would be terrible and as long as the OS isn’t exactly the same you will find one person with a use case that doesn’t work as well. So either you have to say it depends on workflow or it will always be limiting the hardware.
And for Surface Pro, Apple are already destroying their sales. For good reason as well, terrible device really (yes I’ve had one and tried 3 more).
The core issue is that iPadOS does not have true multitasking. So the more they increase the hardware, the more iPadOS will hold it back because it can still do one thing at a time while apps in the background get very limited ability to work. And eventually, even a simple test around 30-60 minutes, switching back to the suspended app will cause it to reload everything and I lose my place. This never happens on macOS.
Apple really needs to get with the program and bring Finder to iPadOS. I CANNOT use Files for my workflow. It is too restrictive. They also need to allow full 100% multitasking.
There’s a lot of ”I” in what you wrote. Just because you cannot do enough to warrant the hardware on it doesn’t mean it is universal for everyone, you are not the center of the universe.
That....is the entire point? If the hardware is the same and the only difference is macOS vs iPadOS then by definition iPadOS does not let you do things that use the hardware to the fullest and means its holding things back. M1 is better than my 2019 i9 iMac, but the iPad is NOT better than an iMac.
Again its like putting a 28 core CPU in the iPad but still have to deal with iPadOS. It still has horrible multi-tasking. Yeah that ONE APP can use a lot of resources, but people don't typically just have ONE and ONE THING only open.
But the same can be said the other way around, MacOS does not let me do things that iPadOS does with the same hardware. Between MacOS and iPadOS I can use iPadOS for more things I need the device for, that is why I don't have a Mac anymore. For your use case MacOS limits you, that is not going to be the same thing for everyone.
That is why Apple wants people to buy iPad AND a mac. I use an iPad because I need to draw some things. I prefer to have the actual display while I draw, so getting a similar Wacom that needs to be attached to the Mac would be about the same cost. iPad has the advantage that I can take it anywhere, draw without my Mac and come back to my Mac later.
But like I said, the Surface took care of this issue. You can use the full desktop experience if you want to, or use it more of a tablet experience. The only problem is its using Intel which is never been good in that form factor. M1 fixed this, but they have not fixed iPadOS to reflect the dual workflow.
I have a Surface Pro and I enjoy it very much... It is not a "terrible device". Once again we have the situation where an Apple fan feels the need to trash everyone else. And no Apple is not destroying Surface sales. Surface, along with Samsung, Lenovo, HP, and all the others that create and ship tablet PC options is doing quite well. A person who wants a Windows tablet doesn't want an iPad... As they are not the same thing. If I want to run Painter... I don't want an iPad.
I quite agree. I have a 16GB i7 Surface Pro 7 and it's my most used device, far more than my 2021 12.9 Pro or desktop. The reasons? Primarily because I like to do most of my work, etc. using a larger, 4K monitor and in addition, the SP7 has really excellent performance and I haven't had any issues with it. The iPP makes a better tablet without question but I don't need the tablet form factor that often.
No, the tablet form factor is not compromised (*well, sort of). What I believe I said was that the laptop form factor that the tablet converts into (by adding the keyboard) is compromised. The keyboard is either flimsy, or to compensate for the top heavy screen, the keyboard base is heavy, making the overall weight heavier. Plus the range of viewing angles is better on a dedicated laptop.
Your overall functionality is likely enhanced by adding the keyboard, but not the tablet form per se, not in the same way that say the pencil enhances the tablet without significantly changing it. I would define enhancing as making something more functional while still carrying out its basic specific role. A basic specific role of a tablet is high portability (by removing the keyboard from a laptop). Adding a keyboard again takes away that role and changes it back into the role of a laptop, which is efficient yet still portable text entry. But again a converted laptop is not as optimal as a dedicated. And with any conversion system, there is the added hassle of converting, plus carrying around an extra peripheral device.
* “Sort of” because carrying around an extra keyboard sort of undermines the portability advantage of tablets.
All of these are compromise that some (including me) are willing to have for the sake of having one device that can do both. But again as I’ve said, with an added keyboard it’s not really one device anymore, but more like one and a half (or two going by the weight of the magic keyboard, or the price of a standard iPad). One has to really need or want both form factors for it to be worth it in my opinion.
“Take up too much storage” and “slow down” was part of an undeveloped thought on my part. I would assume M1 iPads and Macs can run all the same software at the same speed. But my thinking is maybe ipadOS is meant to be always be the lighter and faster OS of the two. So even if they have the same cpu/gpu/ram/storage (I wonder though if we’ve confirmed that that’s completely true or just assumed; if there is a possibility that there are slight variations in hardware to make it more optimized for ipadOS), maybe Apple wants iPads to remain having lighter less demanding software to keep it faster, less bugs, etc.
I think as far as PR, it may need a new name other than iPad.
I’m sure Apple wants people to buy both, but in my opinion there are reasons to suspect that’s not the whole story.
Your conclusion that the M1 iPad Pro is being held back hinges on the belief that ipadOS does not let you do things that use the hardware to the fullest, correct? It seems others don’t agree with that so I think that’s the thing you need to prove first. It seems hard to prove either way though without a lot of testing and benchmarks and statistics.
and yet, developers of high end apps used in professional industries are going on and on about the performance increase of the M1. I think they know more about if apps can utilize the power of the hardware than any person in this three.
Also, better is subjective. I think my iPad Pro better than any Mac I can buy because for what I need a mobile computer for, the iPad does better.
The fact that 30-60 minutes later, on a simple test where apps need to reload after being suspend for that long is enough to say that iPadOS is horrible at multitasking still. The hardware is NOT the problem, the OS is.
As I said, I got rid of my 2019 i9 iMac because the M1 destroys it. I sing all the praises about M1. But that doesn't mean M1 isn't held back by an OS.
But that doesn’t prove that the hardware is not being used to the fullest. It just means it’s not being used the way you expect it to be used. Maybe the ram is fully utilized in other ways.
Yes it is. Thunderbolt SSD transfer speed is proof enough that iPadOS is holding things back. Files app too. Its far more difficult to transfer files and work on files between apps since everything is sandboxed. And iPadOS still is limiting multi-tasking by suspending non-active apps.
And having an external display does NOT extended the display, its still a mirror of the iPad display.
I guess we’ve just had drastically different experiences then.
None of the things you’ve listed above I’ve had any issues with. I haven’t really had any issues with apps refreshing or not staying suspended (and I’ll have multiple apps open together in split view groups. The Files app transfer speed has been perfectly fine (Used it to transfer some video clips from my desktop to my iPad), though with iCloud Drive syncing. No complaints about file management, really.
iPadOS certainly has its limitations, but those limitations have never been something I felt held back by. Those very limitations are WHY I like the iPad much more than my MacBook or desktop, and why my new iPad Pro is probably now my new main device, with my desktop being used only for games and the super rare photo or video project I just can’t do on my iPad.
None of the things you’ve listed above I’ve had any issues with. I haven’t really had any issues with apps refreshing or not staying suspended (and I’ll have multiple apps open together in split view groups. The Files app transfer speed has been perfectly fine (Used it to transfer some video clips from my desktop to my iPad), though with iCloud Drive syncing. No complaints about file management, really.
iPadOS certainly has its limitations, but those limitations have never been something I felt held back by. Those very limitations are WHY I like the iPad much more than my MacBook or desktop, and why my new iPad Pro is probably now my new main device, with my desktop being used only for games and the super rare photo or video project I just can’t do on my iPad.
Files app is garbage. Instead of one pause when doing SMB file copy/paste there's a lengthy pause for copy then another pause for paste. Also, no progress indicator, no time remaining, no throughput stats, etc. Everything on iPadOS requires jumping over hurdles. Just dump iPadOS and replace with MacOS or better yet Linux.
Last edited:
I agree that the ipad still needs more functionality, but I find that the Microsoft surface tablet does not meeting my vision of tablet computing either. It’s too much like a conventional laptop, and I love my ipad precisely because it is nothing like a PC.
For better and for worse, I like that iPadOS lets me just work without having to contend with any of the complexities of a legacy desktop OS (which includes both windows and macOS). I still own a Mac and use it for work, and I also appreciate the simplicity of iOS whenever I can get away with using it for work.
For better and for worse, I like that iPadOS lets me just work without having to contend with any of the complexities of a legacy desktop OS (which includes both windows and macOS). I still own a Mac and use it for work, and I also appreciate the simplicity of iOS whenever I can get away with using it for work.