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Flabasha

macrumors 6502
Dec 21, 2011
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I have the Tab S7+ and honestly it's only good for watching movies and streaming... That's the only thing where it's better than the iPad pro. Other than that even the 2018 iPad pro is a much better device, especially with the Magic Keyboard... I don't think Apple considers it much competition if at all... And many of those who bought it would have not bought an iPad anyway... Don't get me wrong, I am glad it exists and I bought it also to support Samsung in its attempt to create some competition, but it's still far behind, and not just in software, also in hardware...
Apple considered competition the Surface pro 3 back then, which was a successful device, that's why they responded with the iPad pro 1.5 years later. But since then the surface pro has not made much progress in its weak point, that is to be a better tablet (both in software and in hardware) so people just use it like a laptop and the only selling point is for those that absolutely want only once device. Otherwise a clamshell and an iPad make much more sense... So it's little competition to iPad pro too nowadays...
The Galaxy Pro 360 form factor of 16:9 is definitely my ideal for content creation and consumption IMO… Having a twice-as-large image for movies, while only having a 35% increase in sheer size is fantastic. And drawing with my palettes visible, while still having the the same drawing area as my iPad Pro is terrific as well.

A 16:9 iPad Pro would be a pretty compelling upgrade, if you can deal with iPadOS.
 
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Digitalguy

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Apr 15, 2019
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I don't agree with that mindset, of course.. Apple considers Tab S7+ competition. Is it a worthy competitor... then yeah, you might have an argument there.

I never owned a Tab S7+ nor any Tab products... but I've seen reviews of them. I think you being a bit disingenuous that it's only good for consumption. On the reddit thread... they are known to be good for Samsung Dex.
Ok let me clarify.
If you have no Windows or Mac and you need to do your work with either an iPad pro and a Tab S7+, then the S7+ is the better device.
It supports external monitors via Dex and it has better multitasking, no doubt about it...
But my point is that neither is good for work because both Android and iPadOS are too limited for work... A Windows PC or Mac are miles better for that....

Let me give you some elements:
1. They don't support full Office, which is a deal breaker for a lot of office work
2. They don't support automatic syncing of cloud services, which is another big deal
3. They lack most professional apps other than in the drawing / note taking and to some extent music field.
4. They don't support virtualization
5. They have no real background apps activity (iPad) or very limited (Samsung), so you cannot for instance export, import, do an OCR etc. and do something else at the same time...

Having said that the iPad has more pro apps than the Tab S7+, in the music field it's night and day, and then there is drawing, photo and video editing, where the iPad has more and better apps.

Hardware wise, the Samsung keyboard is nowhere near the Magic Keyboard, the 16:10 is not great for portrait use, the S7 lacks any kind of palm rejections so you are constantly interfering with the screen while holding it and Samsung Internet is so poorly optimised that it is slower than even Safari on the 2015 iPad pro.... (benchmarked)
And the other browsers are even worse as desktop browsers...

Reviews online are often done after a few weeks only and don't necessarily have both devices long term to compare...
 
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Ludatyk

macrumors 603
May 27, 2012
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But my point is that neither is good for work because both Android and iPadOS are too limited for work... A Windows PC or Mac are miles better for that....
Okay, now.. your moving the topic lol. I was only responding to whether or not there is competition for the iPad.. not on how neither is good for work. I understand Windows PC or Mac have a long established OS, my point being from my initial response... was there is competition against Apple with the iPad.
 

Digitalguy

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Apr 15, 2019
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Okay, now.. your moving the topic lol. I was only responding to whether or not there is competition for the iPad.. not on how neither is good for work. I understand Windows PC or Mac have a long established OS, my point being from my initial response... was there is competition against Apple with the iPad.
it's very limited competition, because Android is behind in terms of apps and while Samsung can improve the OS they cannot do much for the apps....
And when you sell $800+ tablets you need that kind of pro apps to compete...
The iPad may attract some pro developers thanks to very powerful specs, while the SD865+ cannot even compete with the 2018 A12X, it's actually below the A12 and barely above A10X (and the browser doesn't even run at A9X speeds...)
Not much of an incentive for developers to make pro/premium apps...
If you like me are ready to pay $1000 for a premium movie watching tablet, great, otherwise.... get an iPad pro... (unless, again like me, you are ready to buy both...)
 
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Isengardtom

macrumors 65816
Feb 14, 2009
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As a gesture based OS, iPadOS is second to none. iPadOS15 improves on this vastly. And they are improving a lot with the addition of sysyem wide keyboard shortcut. And you can see Apple is trying to add more multi window improvements with the floating Quick note window. This will no doubt be expanded to other apps in the future. They’re just taking their time to improve things gradually.

As an iPad enthusiast is don’t want MacOS on the iPad, unless they offer it through a separate app I need to launch as an option, but not forced to me as the main OS running the iPad. I think the Only way they can make that work is by forcing changes to MacOS that won’t be liked by MacOS users.

what they do need to do though is allow decent external monitor support and bring some more improvements to the file system.
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
As a gesture based OS, iPadOS is second to none. iPadOS15 improves on this vastly. And they are improving a lot with the addition of sysyem wide keyboard shortcut. And you can see Apple is trying to add more multi window improvements with the floating Quick note window. This will no doubt be expanded to other apps in the future. They’re just taking their time to improve things gradually.

As an iPad enthusiast is don’t want MacOS on the iPad, unless they offer it through a separate app I need to launch as an option, but not forced to me as the main OS running the iPad. I think the Only way they can make that work is by forcing changes to MacOS that won’t be liked by MacOS users.

what they do need to do though is allow decent external monitor support and bring some more improvements to the file system.
What they should do imo is allowing native MacOS ARM apps to run on iPads, similar to how iPad apps run on M1 Macs. That would be good enough for me, and better than a UI like Windows that is really annoying to deal with on touchscreens.
 
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kc9hzn

macrumors 68000
Jun 18, 2020
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I think for a “pro” model, that’s what will truly distinguish the iPad Pro with the rest. Give it a MacOS. If you need the iPadOS, get the iPad Air. But it’s just wishful thinking.
Nah, keep the iPad Pro as an iPadOS device but put out a touchscreen MacBook, maybe make it a convertible laptop. Not that such an app would necessarily sell all that well, I don’t think the audience that wants a touchscreen driven macOS device is really all that large. But keep the iPad Pro, there’s definitely demand for something higher end than an iPad Air that runs iPadOS. Forcing people who want a pro iPad to use macOS just makes a different set of users deal with the issues you’re facing now, and I suspect the latter group is larger.
 

kc9hzn

macrumors 68000
Jun 18, 2020
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The Galaxy Pro 360 form factor of 16:9 is definitely my ideal for content creation and consumption IMO… Having a twice-as-large image for movies, while only having a 35% increase in sheer size is fantastic. And drawing with my palettes visible, while still having the the same drawing area as my iPad Pro is terrific as well.

A 16:9 iPad Pro would be a pretty compelling upgrade, if you can deal with iPadOS.
No. 16:9 is fine for image, video content, games. But it’s generally pretty bad for text/reading, which is just as valid a “pro” thing. Pro writers, or software developers like myself can often stand to benefit from a 4:3 screen (or perhaps a 3:4 portrait screen, but don’t get me started on how ridiculous 9:16 ratio portrait screens are). Plus, 16:9 at any appreciable screen size really compromises the in-hand usability. 16:9 is a better fit for a tablet convertible laptop, in my opinion.
 

ntlman

macrumors regular
Nov 21, 2005
153
261
I've been thinking the original poster's (shout out to @thefriendshipmachine) initial insight about Microsoft's jiu-jitsu move with the Surface/W11/Android vis a vis the iPad. Not only do I agree with the real danger for Apple, but I think if you throw in Teams' success and a streaming Xbox gaming service, Apple could really be in for a sucker punch not seen since Windows 95. That started a real spiral for the company that required the return of Jobs and the purchase of NeXT OS to rescue them. TLDR; the company's re-birth required OS development outside of Apple.
 
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sparksd

macrumors G4
Jun 7, 2015
10,023
34,490
Seattle WA
I own a 2021 12.9" iPP and a MS Surface Pro 7 (16GB i7) running Windows 11 Beta. I can't really see my SP7 on Win11 being an iPad killer; it is a better tablet experience than previously but the the iPad is still a far superior tablet. And Android apps? I still have 6 Android tablets and I can't think of a single Android app from Amazon's store that I'd be interested in installing on my SP7. The iPP is an outstanding tablet but falls short for me as a laptop replacement; the SP7 is an outstanding laptop (in my view) but falls short as a tablet replacement. I'll keep both and not look to replace one with the other; each has its use for me.
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
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I've been thinking the original poster's (shout out to @thefriendshipmachine) initial insight about Microsoft's jiu-jitsu move with the Surface/W11/Android vis a vis the iPad. Not only do I agree with the real danger for Apple, but I think if you throw in Teams' success and a streaming Xbox gaming service, Apple could really be in for a sucker punch not seen since Windows 95. That started a real spiral for the company that required the return of Jobs and the purchase of NeXT OS to rescue them. TLDR; the company's re-birth required OS development outside of Apple.
As someone who has been using Windows since Windows 3.1 (and DOS before that), who has been using Surface devices since 2013 (surface 2, surface pro 3, surface 3, surface book 2, plus a couple of surface clones) and iPads since 2014 and only very recently started to use (M1) Macs, I don't think Apple is in any kind of danger. On the contrary, I easily see Macs doubling their market share over the next couple of years once the full Apple Silicon lineup is deployed.
I don't see any significant growth for iPads because I don't expect radical changes in iPadOS, but I don't seen any decline either and definitely don't see people starting to use Windows devices of any kind as tablet massively anytime soon.
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
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777
I've been thinking the original poster's (shout out to @thefriendshipmachine) initial insight about Microsoft's jiu-jitsu move with the Surface/W11/Android vis a vis the iPad. Not only do I agree with the real danger for Apple, but I think if you throw in Teams' success and a streaming Xbox gaming service, Apple could really be in for a sucker punch not seen since Windows 95. That started a real spiral for the company that required the return of Jobs and the purchase of NeXT OS to rescue them. TLDR; the company's re-birth required OS development outside of Apple.
Nah. Windows 11 is like Windows 10 with some visual changes, but not more. It will not compete with an iPad, just as iPads won’t compete with Windows anytime soon. It’s two different things with some parts overlapping

Apple silicone Macs on the other hand are,m, if anything , a danger for Microsoft and Intel/AMD.
 
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Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
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Apple silicone Macs on the other hand are,m, if anything , a danger for Microsoft and Intel/AMD.

I doubt Apple Silicon is a danger to Windows. 90 percent of the world's computers run Windows, and most businesses that rely on active directory or Windows services, like Exchange and SQL, aren't swiching.

So it's not the processsor that people care about, it's the OS and Windows is king of the world right now. Now, if Apple were to license M1 to other PC manufacturers (which they probably wouldn't) and got Windows ARM to run on it, then maybe Intel would get worried.
 

WorldIRC

macrumors 6502
Sep 25, 2005
472
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I doubt Apple Silicon is a danger to Windows. 90 percent of the world's computers run Windows, and most businesses that rely on active directory or Windows services, like Exchange and SQL, aren't swiching.

So it's not the processsor that people care about, it's the OS and Windows is king of the world right now. Now, if Apple were to license M1 to other PC manufacturers (which they probably wouldn't) and got Windows ARM to run on it, then maybe Intel would get worried.
And for the few work-related Windows apps I need to run, I’ve now begun to just RDP into my Parallels environment (which I run on my Mac).
 

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
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And for the few work-related Windows apps I need to run, I’ve now begun to just RDP into my Parallels environment (which I run on my Mac).

Speaking of VMs, that's another reason why Big Business isn't going away from Windows or Intel - virtualization. My university runs hundreds of servers and thousands of student lab workstations on 24 Intel supercomputers using large capacity storage arrays, running vmware. That is something M1 can't compete with.

So, predictions of Intel going down the drain are ridiculous. The Mx looks promising on the small desktop environment (I love being able to run iPad apps on a Macbook), but Windows and Intel aren't going anywhere.
 
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Digitalguy

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Apr 15, 2019
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I doubt Apple Silicon is a danger to Windows. 90 percent of the world's computers run Windows, and most businesses that rely on active directory or Windows services, like Exchange and SQL, aren't swiching.

So it's not the processsor that people care about, it's the OS and Windows is king of the world right now. Now, if Apple were to license M1 to other PC manufacturers (which they probably wouldn't) and got Windows ARM to run on it, then maybe Intel would get worried.
It's not a danger, nor Macs will ever have a majority market share, but... it may mean loss of market share... starting from the loss of Macs by Intel of course, but also loss due to some people switching to Macs or not switching to Windows....
For most businesses, nothing is going to change but for some of them and some consumers/prosumers might change. I see quite a few medical/dentist centers using Macs only instead of Windows devices. And I think quite a few prosumers are considering getting a Mac with Apple Silicon (and this will probably only increase with the next chips), including those that use a laptop or desktop for both work and private use. Of course I don't have statistics (nobody in good faith can claim that) but I wouldn't be surprised if the Mac market share doubled in the next couple of years.... moving from single digits to double digits....
Personally I had never considered Macs as a working tool (I only had and old MacBook Air bought used which I used as a chromebook...), since I rely on Windows only software for work. But I am one of those who have become allergic to any type of fan noise and want an absolutely silent environment. And the M1 Mac mini has become my new daily driver. It can run my Windows software via parallels and I can still use my Windows devices by remoting into them (including at home...). For use on the go, I still use Windows laptops, but as soon are there are Apple Silicon macs under 1kg I'll move to that as well...
Is this a big danger for Intel? No, just a net loss. Will x86 die over time? Not at all, it's already adapting. Intel has recently announced the 12th gen chips that do exactly that, use a similar big-little architecture as Apple... It's just that they are behind and it will take a while to catch up and things might not work great from the beginning.... In the meantime, Apple could get some more market share, until things stabilize... But a lost client may not come back anymore....
 
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WorldIRC

macrumors 6502
Sep 25, 2005
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It's not a danger, nor Macs will ever have a majority market share, but... it may mean loss of market share... starting from the loss of Macs by Intel of course, but also loss due to some people switching to Macs or not switching to Windows....
For most businesses, nothing is going to change but for some of them and some consumers/prosumers might change. I see quite a few medical/dentist centers using Macs only instead of Windows devices. And I think quite a few prosumers are considering getting a Mac with Apple Silicon (and this will probably only increase with the next chips), including those that use a laptop or desktop for both work and private use. Of course I don't have statistics (nobody in good faith can claim that) but I wouldn't be surprised if the Mac market share doubled in the next couple of years.... moving from single digits to double digits....
Personally I had never considered Macs as a working tool (I only had and old MacBook Air bought used which I used as a chromebook...), since I rely on Windows only software for work. But I am one of those who have become allergic to any type of fan noise and want an absolutely silent environment. And the M1 Mac mini has become my new daily driver. It can run my Windows software via parallels and I can still use my Windows devices by remoting into them (including at home...). For use on the go, I still use Windows laptops, but as soon are there are Apple Silicon macs under 1kg I'll move to that as well...
Is this a big danger for Intel? No, just a net loss. Will x86 die over time? Not at all, it's already adapting. Intel has recently announced the 12th gen chips that do exactly that, use a similar big-little architecture as Apple... It's just that they are behind and it will take a while to catch up and things might not work great from the beginning.... In the meantime, Apple could get some more market share, until things stabilize... But a lost client may not come back anymore....
I’ve started remoting into my Parallels environment for when I’m on the go and need access to my Windows app from my iPad. So far so good.

I hope to be able to switch to an M1X or M2 Mac Mini at home with Parallels. Will need proper dual monitor support, and Windows needs to run my applications. Will also need enough ram for Windows (8GB) without sacrificing Mac side performance.
 

Digitalguy

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Apr 15, 2019
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I’ve started remoting into my Parallels environment for when I’m on the go and need access to my Windows app from my iPad. So far so good.

I hope to be able to switch to an M1X or M2 Mac Mini at home with Parallels. Will need proper dual monitor support, and Windows needs to run my applications. Will also need enough ram for Windows (8GB) without sacrificing Mac side performance.
Yeah, RAM is a bit tight. I split it in half since I actually use the VM as much or more than the Mac.... 32GB (and more cores) would be great.
Other than that Windows on Arm runs all the apps that I want.
Do you mean about proper dual monitor from iPad?
If so, sure, that's a big deal, especially if you want to use the smaller pro. Personally I am using my pro as a second monitor with my Mac mini.
 

WorldIRC

macrumors 6502
Sep 25, 2005
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Yeah, RAM is a bit tight. I split it in half since I actually use the VM as much or more than the Mac.... 32GB (and more cores) would be great.
Other than that Windows on Arm runs all the apps that I want.
Do you mean about proper dual monitor from iPad?
If so, sure, that's a big deal, especially if you want to use the smaller pro. Personally I am using my pro as a second monitor with my Mac mini.
Right now I give Parallels 5GB and my MBP keeps 11GB. It’s a bit tight but it does the job. I use Windows as much as I use MacOS so I’d prefer both had at least 8GB.

Ideally my next Mac has 32GB and then I never have to think about it again.

As for dual monitor I meant that I hope the next Mac Mini properly supports it. Right now it’s hot or miss in terms of reliability so I haven’t bit the bullet as of yet (and because RAM is limited to 16GB).

My iPad Pro doesn’t necessarily need external monitor support if it ends up replacing my laptop permanently.
 
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Digitalguy

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Right now I give Parallels 5GB and my MBP keeps 11GB. It’s a bit tight but it does the job. I use Windows as much as I use MacOS so I’d prefer both had at least 8GB.

Ideally my next Mac has 32GB and then I never have to think about it again.

As for dual monitor I meant that I hope the next Mac Mini properly supports it. Right now it’s hot or miss in terms of reliability so I haven’t bit the bullet as of yet (and because RAM is limited to 16GB).

My iPad Pro doesn’t necessarily need external monitor support if it ends up replacing my laptop permanently.
I like how my M1 Mini supports external monitors, but maybe you want 2 monitors via USB C? What is unreliable in your opinion?
Personally I use 2 monitors most of the time and 3 sometimes.
I am probably in the minority, but
- I don't like very large monitors, I find them uncomfortable and I hardly ever split screen, I prefer to have multiple monitors.
- I prefer one over the other rather than side by side....(larger one above and smaller one, laptop size, below)

So my setup is:
- a full-hd 22in monitor (perfect size for me, I am ok with 24 but no more) connected via HDMI
- a 4k 15.6 monitor underneath connected via USB C (I know the resolution should be the opposite, but I can't find a 4k monitor at that size) or, alternative, a 12.9 iPad pro instead of the 15.6in monitor (eg. if I need to use the pencil).

When I need 3 monitor I will use one via HDMI, one via USB C and one via Sidecar (the smaller ones side by side)
I could even use 4 with duet display, I have tested it, but so far I haven't had a need for 4 monitors....
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
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Yes it is. Thunderbolt SSD transfer speed is proof enough that iPadOS is holding things back. Files app too. Its far more difficult to transfer files and work on files between apps since everything is sandboxed. And iPadOS still is limiting multi-tasking by suspending non-active apps.

And having an external display does NOT extended the display, its still a mirror of the iPad display.

Maybe we aren't agreeing on the definition of “holding back”. To me, holding back implies that there’s clearly no good reason for the absence of the feature. Sure, Apple probably could implement all the things you mention, plus a million more, but that doesn’t mean they should. If there’s some reason that they don’t, then to me it’s not holding back, but a valid design or logistical choice. Every choice has trade offs, after all.
Unfortunately I’m no expert regarding all the things you mention, but it seems pretty clear for some things like a non-sandboxed file system, that implementing it would introduce a level of file-managing complexity and user/developer error risk that the iPad is meant to avoid. It would be undermining the core identity of the iPad, which is a fun, simple, secure mobile device. Some of the other things might affect battery life, which it seems evident would also compromise the iPad’s core identity.
 

Digitalguy

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Apr 15, 2019
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Maybe we aren't agreeing on the definition of “holding back”. To me, holding back implies that there’s clearly no good reason for the absence of the feature. Sure, Apple probably could implement all the things you mention, plus a million more, but that doesn’t mean they should. If there’s some reason that they don’t, then to me it’s not holding back, but a valid design or logistical choice. Every choice has trade offs, after all.
Unfortunately I’m no expert regarding all the things you mention, but it seems pretty clear for some things like a non-sandboxed file system, that implementing it would introduce a level of file-managing complexity and user/developer error risk that the iPad is meant to avoid. It would be undermining the core identity of the iPad, which is a fun, simple, secure mobile device. Some of the other things might affect battery life, which it seems evident would also compromise the iPad’s core identity.
The eternal battle between the iPad purists and those wanting more from their pro....
The iPad purists want it to be a simple and secure mobile device, and the pro just a premium version of it, and the others would like the pro to be more functional, more similar to a desktop device, than the rest of the iPad line.
Some of them are pure dreamers don't realize that this entails compromises.
Others instead do realize that and would rather take a 10-20% heavier device to get the same battery capacity (around 20% more) of a MacBook Air and prefer to be treated like "adults" in terms of security and complexity, just like when they buy a MacBook, but not necessarily having MacOS on the iPad pro...
Each camp has their reasons, preferences and valid arguments.
Apple seems to be on the side of the purists... but not because their vision is intrinsically better (remember we are talking iPad pro here, not the entire iPad line) but much more likely because they think this is what maximizes profits for them...
 

Tozovac

macrumors 68040
Jun 12, 2014
3,035
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I think this is about to change and it's going to be really good because Apple will be forced to up their game and give us real functionality in iPadOS!

The iPad with its beautiful hardware is stuck in almost a prison with a painfully crippled operating system. You can have your M1 but can't even do basic things like easily sign PDFs or navigate the file system properly. In contrast, my entire windows and linux development environment runs flawlessly on the Surface Pro X. It's capable of running Windows software, Linux software through WSL (CLI + GUI) and x86 and amd64 software via emulation. And soon Android app support. All with a touch friendly interface. It puts the ipad to shame. iPad may have mind blowing faster hardware, but it doesn't matter at all because you just can't do very much with it compared to the Surface.
I don't know. Watch what you ask for. Most people use the iPad and a Mac completely differently even if they're in the same family/genre of "things," and I can appreciate the different operating systems. You can't play hockey using a football. I personally find working with Windows 10 horrible in a desktop environment since the flat, spread-out, "simplified" interface and interface elements are compromised to work both with a smallish tablet and fat fingertip vs. a large screen and small mouse pointer. There's such an inefficient use of space that I feel like I'm using an operating system designed for preschoolers when used on a large screen/desktop. I would hate to see Apple create an OS that caters to both touch & keyboard/mouse.

The real missing app to me is a dual-boot M1 iPad that can be both an iPad or MacBook/iMac. Hell, the current new iMac already is an iPad on a stick basically.
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
6,270
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The eternal battle between the iPad purists and those wanting more from their pro....
The iPad purists want it to be a simple and secure mobile device, and the pro just a premium version of it, and the others would like the pro to be more functional, more similar to a desktop device, than the rest of the iPad line.
Some of them are pure dreamers don't realize that this entails compromises.
Others instead do realize that and would rather take a 10-20% heavier device to get the same battery capacity (around 20% more) of a MacBook Air and prefer to be treated like "adults" in terms of security and complexity, just like when they buy a MacBook, but not necessarily having MacOS on the iPad pro...
Each camp has their reasons, preferences and valid arguments.
Apple seems to be on the side of the purists... but not because their vision is intrinsically better (remember we are talking iPad pro here, not the entire iPad line) but much more likely because they think this is what maximizes profits for them...
I try not to engage in battle on any side (especially since arguing on a forum doesn’t have much effect on products anyway). I try to just take a non-cynical view at why things are the way they are.

I would say, “intrinsically better” is subjective. For me, a Mac slate with pen input would be the ideal device for work. I’ve wanted this long before the iPad Pro existed. But I know not everyone shares this need or want. For others, they’d be more productive on a clamshell, or have more ease and enjoyment with a simpler, more mobile touch slate. So for some a Mac-like tablet is intrinsically better, for others it’s not. My guess is for the vast majority, it’s not. Because if mine was a large profitable market, then why wouldn’t Apple want to tap into that market? Or why wouldn’t I see more PC tablets at workplaces or colleges or coffee shops? And when I do see them, why are they never using them as tablets?

But regardless, I think whether Apple does or doesn’t tap into that market should be up to them. There’s a lot of frustration/blame/accusation directed at Apple over not turning the iPad Pro into a more Mac-like tablet. In my opinion, this is misguided and misplaced at a sort of fundamental level. The way I see it, in a free market, a company should be able to do what they want (as long as they play by the rules). Every company is just following their own beacon as to what they think will lead them to success. It’s the market that actually decides what succeeds and what fails. So ultimate control and therefore blame (if any) is on us consumers. (And if not us, then on the politicians who created the capitalist system that empowers us. But in a democracy, the blame falls back on us for giving those politicians power.)

I don’t, however, blame individuals for airing their wishes on what Apple would or wouldn’t do. I do it all the time. But I will weigh in when I see an expressed expectation or assumption that to me seems unfounded or at least debatable, whether or not it’s in favor of a feature I wish for.
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
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I try not to engage in battle on any side (especially since arguing on a forum doesn’t have much effect on products anyway). I try to just take a non-cynical view at why things are the way they are.

I would say, “intrinsically better” is subjective. For me, a Mac slate with pen input would be the ideal device for work. I’ve wanted this long before the iPad Pro existed. But I know not everyone shares this need or want. For others, they’d be more productive on a clamshell, or have more ease and enjoyment with a simpler, more mobile touch slate. So for some a Mac-like tablet is intrinsically better, for others it’s not. My guess is for the vast majority, it’s not. Because if mine was a large profitable market, then why wouldn’t Apple want to tap into that market? Or why wouldn’t I see more PC tablets at workplaces or colleges or coffee shops? And when I do see them, why are they never using them as tablets?

But regardless, I think whether Apple does or doesn’t tap into that market should be up to them. There’s a lot of frustration/blame/accusation directed at Apple over not turning the iPad Pro into a more Mac-like tablet. In my opinion, this is misguided and misplaced at a sort of fundamental level. The way I see it, in a free market, a company should be able to do what they want (as long as they play by the rules). Every company is just following their own beacon as to what they think will lead them to success. It’s the market that actually decides what succeeds and what fails. So ultimate control and therefore blame (if any) is on us consumers. (And if not us, then on the politicians who created the capitalist system that empowers us. But in a democracy, the blame falls back on us for giving those politicians power.)

I don’t, however, blame individuals for airing their wishes on what Apple would or wouldn’t do. I do it all the time. But I will weigh in when I see an expressed expectation or assumption that to me seems unfounded or at least debatable, whether or not it’s in favor of a feature I want.
Contrary to you, I take a much more cynical view on Apple, which is indeed free to do whatever they it's best for...them.
Which means that in those fields where they don't have much competition, offer the solutions that make the most money for them (for instance trying to avoid overlapping important features that would lead to some people using only one device instead of 2). Again this works only when you are good/unique enough that you can afford to do this, for instance because of a strong ecosystem and products that in some categories are way ahead of (a much more fragmented) competition.
So in short they don't always have to do what's best / most cost efficient for the client, as long as competition is not an issue (and despite what some people say, it's not...).
And you can be at the same time cynical and buy and enjoy their products, even while knowing very well why they maintain certain (often artificial) limitations
 
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