All iPads iPads shouldn't run macOS - Stage Manager shows it clearly

[JMBosque]

I like Stage Manager. Of course, I understand I purchased a Tablet and not a Laptop. A device not meant for external keyboards and such as they simply aren’t necessary. No matter how many things I attach, I look, and yep … still a Tablet. Why buy a touch device just to stick a keyboard & mouse on it? Insanity! Just buy a Laptop.

Clean, simple, easy interface. Lightweight. Portable. APP running. It’s a Tablet and I hope it will remain one.

One day there will likely be a MacPad … but it isn’t going to be cheap. And we certainly won’t be getting it for the price point of any iPad.

 

[Digitalguy]

As a principle I agree, only thing I would worry about is the amount of storage space that would take up. But as you say, it’s nothing Apple interests, because of the App Store

Apple could simply say "you need at least 256GB" to run MacOS in Bootcamp, problem solved, they have done it already with other things. Again, MacOS won't happen and we know why...

 

[Digitalguy]

Shipping one device with two OS at the same time, where you have to reboot, with partitions, restricted APIs... doesn't seem like the best idea. Also, I completely disagree with OneUI being touch-friendly. It's a clunky way to manage windows, it just doesn't feel natural in touch-based interfaces.

That's what happened with Macs. And to the "doesn't seem like the best idea" I would add "to you".
As for OneUI on tablets, I wonder how "extensive" is your experience with it, sounds to me like you tried it once, but we are behind a screen, so anyone can say or pretend whatever they want... Anyway, let's agree to completely disagree.
I definitely prefer iPads to Android tablets (despite having 3 recent ones, a 14.6in one, a 12.4in one and a 13in one, plus a couple of older ones) for many reasons, but if there is something where Samsung is superior to iPads is OneUI vs the multitasking options of iPads (split screen, slideover etc.). Not even close... And perfectly optimized for touch, contrary to Dex

 

[Digitalguy]

I don't think Stage Manager is half-baked. In fact, I think it's optimized as much as possible for touch screens, but even then, that concept just doesn't work. I'd say DeX is way worse than Stage Manager. I know it gets a lot of praise online, but does anyone really use it? That gives us a hint. Unfortunately we don't have statistics, but let me doubt that. We're used to fluid interfaces in touch-based devices, with objects that move automatically, swipes instead of taps, etc. Classic window interfaces are nothing like that.

I don't particularly like DEX on tablets (but I do use it on external monitors) but I'd take it over Stage Manager any day, much more flexible. Both DEX and Stage Manager should probably be relegated to external monitors interfaces IMO and Apple should much improved their current multitasking (split screen etc.) while OneUI is already probably the most powerful touch-first multitasking UI on the market (and that's one of the very few things where Samsung tablets are superior to iPads, for almost everything else iPads are better devices)

 

[Digitalguy]

I'd say the problem is thinking that "With a few tweaks to the user interface, MacOS would work fine on iPads". Microsoft did A LOT of tweaks with Windows 8. But it was a disaster, because the OS wasn't thought from the ground up for touch control. They had to undo all of that, and end up building classic laptops with touch screen. I think Apple has shown the iPad concept is way more successful than those alternatives.

Not at all. The reasons Win8 failed is because Microsoft tried to force a touch interface into desktop devices (including non touch laptops). But many praised Win8 for its touch interface on tablets and the only reason Microsoft went back is because they don't seem to be able to do 2 separate interfaces for touch and non touch devices (their tablet mode on Win10 is a joke), so they gave priority to non touch devices with Win10...

 

[cupcakes2000]

Again, MacOS won't happen and we know why...

Why?

 

[cupcakes2000]

Double post

 

[Retskrad]

I love my iPad Pro with the Pencil and I wish it could also replace my MacBook Air for traditional computing tasks but the Magic Keyboard is a poor attempt by Apple.

- You can’t open the Magic Keyboard with one hand once it’s closed.
- There’s no function key row to control brightness and audio.
- The trackpad is extremely small and you need to apply twice as much pressure to get a click compared to solid state MacBook trackpads. Also, the click is loud and sounds cheap. The trackpad on the Magic Keyboard honestly belongs to mid range Windows laptops and not in the same league as MacBooks.
- To add salt to injury, it’s $350.

It’s just a product that needs a rethinking from Apple.

 

[Shirasaki]

- You can’t open the Magic Keyboard with one hand once it’s closed.
- There’s no function key row to control brightness and audio.
- The trackpad is extremely small and you need to apply twice as much pressure to get a click compared to solid state MacBook trackpads. The trackpad on the Magic Keyboard honestly belongs to mid range Windows laptops and not in the same league as MacBooks.
- To add salt to injury, it’s $300-350.

From top to bottom.
- it’s top heavy and it’s a case In essence. Able To do that would probably defeat its protection Purpose.
- baffles me too. And latest iPad 10 only Keyboard having function key doesn’t help either.
- I find it just fine compared to M1 macbook pro trackpad.
- heh… should’ve been $100-150. it’s almost as if apple is silently discouraging people from turning iPad into a laptop by setting such a high price bar on this keyboard Folio case.

 

[subjonas]

Stage Manager is nowhere near the multitasking and windowing capabilities of MacOS. Just because Stage Manager isn't great has zero to do with iPads and their ability to run MacOS.

I''m not sure why people are so quick to cheer getting less. As if Apple is telling us what's good for us amd you'll like it. With a few tweaks to the user interface, MacOS would work fine on iPads.

If Apple sold a Surface Pro like device running MacOS, people would lose their bleep over it. Just like they pizzzzed on large screen phones. "Oh, large screen phones are laughable, no one wnats that." Now, the iPhone Pro Max is their best seller.

Not sure anyone cheers getting less. I think it’s more like they believe “one device that can do everything well” is a mirage.

I think the difference with the large phone example is that other companies were gaining market share, so Apple had to respond. Not so much the case with Windows convertible laptops.

 

[subjonas]

What really sets the two apart is that iOS/iPadOS cannot run MacOS (native ARM) apps. (It works the other way around just fine and there is not reason the iPad hardware couldn't do it, the Pro has the same M1 chip.)

I’m not a developer but I’m pretty sure Mac applications need the macOS platform to run off of. They can’t just run in isolation. I’m guessing iPad apps can run in macOS because they can run in isolation, more or less, since they’re more siloed.

 

[Shirasaki]

I think it’s more like they believe “one device that can do everything well” is a mirage.

Large screen phone is the full manifest of that mindset from customers just like you and me. “One device to do everything, well enough”, despite the fact tablet delivers much better experience overall for things your phone can also do. (At least for iPad compared to iPhone)

 

[subjonas]

Hate to admit it, but for me, if I want to get the most productive work done on the road I have to resort to a Surface Pro, (or even the Surface Go 3 works better for me if I want to travel light). It provides me with a quick and efficient way of having multiple windows open, and that I can switch between, without the faff of snapping views and piles.

This trying to keep the touch interface on an iPad to one screen doesn't work efficiently for me. I wish it did, as I don't really like Windows. But when time is money, I have to go with the most efficient route,

Having a full floating windowed version of iPadOS, even if it was only active when the keyboard was attached would bring the best of both worlds for me, and allow me to completely switch from Windows.

I take it you don’t like macOS either? Or do you need the Surface for the pen?

 

[subjonas]

Stop looking for "purity." MacOS would be perfectly fine for an iPad and touch.

Are you talking to the MR user or to Apple? Because I think Apple is probably going to keep on looking for “purity”. They make mistakes of course.

 

[subjonas]

Large screen phone is the full manifest of that mindset from customers just like you and me. “One device to do everything, well enough”, despite the fact tablet delivers much better experience overall for things your phone can also do. (At least for iPad compared to iPhone)

For sure. Everyone has their individual preferences of what things they’d like combined and what they want separated. I tend to like more things separated, but that’s me. But people here argue like there’s a morally right or wrong answer. But no, there is only figuring out what the real world trade offs are (there are always trade offs)—and from a company’s perspective, figuring out how many would prefer those trade offs (we can only make ultimately wild guesses here), and then if the ROI seems high enough then they will do it (just the way of the world). I think the only thing worth debating amongst us is what the trade offs are, because we might have enough technical knowledge to determine that. But anything more, like what trade offs actually matter, what Apple should do as a business move, is too subjective or involves too many unknown factors, so to me it’s not worth debating. It’s fine to make guesses on anything of course, as long as we understand that they are guesses.

 

[subjonas]

The Surface is highly under appreciated. All MS has to do is tweak the Windows 11 interface a little bit, and it would crush it.

I mean, haven’t they been tweaking it for a decade or more?

 

[Retskrad]

Delete

 

[Digitalguy]

Why?

I have said this many times on MR, including in this thread earlier.
Anyway as a reminder, because it's more profitable for them the way it is now, not because it's bad for their clients or because nobody would use it, as some iPad purists claim....
Apple sells an ecosystem not a "device that can do it all" and it will always be more profitable to get client to buy a MacBook AND an iPad pro than an iPad pro that can do both, but which will cost less than both combined (unless they manage to figure out a device, e.g. a foldable, that alone is more expensive than the combination of a MacBook air and and iPad pro and then maybe they'll do it only for that device).
Also, if Apples lets MacOS run on iPads in addition to iPadOS, software companies will have no incentive to develop pro apps for iPads and Apple will miss on their 30% cut for those more expensive apps.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Also, if Apples lets MacOS run on iPads in addition to iPadOS, software companies will have no incentive to develop pro apps for iPads and Apple will miss on their 30% cut for those more expensive apps.

This likely won't be particularly applicable soon, if things progress and governments persist in dismantling the walled garden approach. So then do you foresee MacOS on the iPad, or do you still see another agenda by Apple which prevents it? Or will you then concede that maybe they think MacOS isn't really suitable for a touch first environment and iPadOS is already the solution they are giving?

 

[Digitalguy]

This likely won't be particularly applicable soon, if things progress and governments persist in dismantling the walled garden approach. So then do you foresee MacOS on the iPad, or do you still see another agenda by Apple which prevents it? Or will you then concede that maybe they think MacOS isn't really suitable for a touch first environment and iPadOS is already the solution they are giving?

There is no law that can oblige Apple to put MacOS on iPad. At best they'll have to allow other app stores or sideloading of mobile apps. So this is irrelevant.
And I have never said that MacOS is suitable for a touch first environment. We already have a very good idea of how Apple sees MacOS on iPad: sidecar, and that's probably how MacOS would work on iPad if Apple ever implemented it, with at best some tweaks like the use of the MK trackpad (but again they won't for the resaons I mentioned, not because it's a bad to have it as an option on iPad pro)

 

[cupcakes2000]

There is no law that can oblige Apple to put MacOS on iPad. At best they'll have to allow other app stores or sideloading of mobile apps. So this is irrelevant.
And I have never said that MacOS is suitable for a touch first environment. We already have a very good idea of how Apple sees MacOS on iPad: sidecar, and that's probably how MacOS would work on iPad if Apple ever implemented it, with at best some tweaks like the use of the MK trackpad (but again they won't for the resaons I mentioned, not because it's a bad to have it as an option on iPad pro)

No, the law would enable apps to be put onto the iPad outside of an App Store, removing any gains for Apple and therefore nullifying this insistence that the reason Apple don't put macOS on the iPad is due to missing out on AppStore fees.

MacOS as an app (a la Sidecar but much more robust) is a great idea, but I think that a Mac will (and should) remain a necessity for this type of feature. I would rather they went down the route of a cheaper Mac Mini style (appleTV/Raspberry Pi sized) dock type thing than force macOS on tablet users, with all of the compromises/complexity it brings.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

When it was introduced, I was skeptical about Stage Manager. I always thought that a classical window management system wouldn't work on a touch-based device, but I have confidence in Apple when it comes to this sort of stuff. In the end, it's been a failure.

macOS on iPad could easily just disable the touchscreen and only work on keyboard and mice like it already does in Sidecar mode.

Some people argued that this shows Apple should implement a macOS-like interface, or even macOS directly. This doesn't make any sense.

The iPad has the guts of a Mac now as well as numerous keyboard and mice accessories, and the iPad Pros have a thunderbolt port that it can plug into a 5K display with. It's more than capable of running macOS

Apple has adapted windows in SM so that controls (resize handle, top bar...) have the precision of a fingertip, and that they replicate the metaphors we're used to in touch-first devices (for example, dragging instead of tapping). Even then, the experience sucks.

Again that's for touch screens. macOS mode on iPad could, JUST LIKE IT ALREADY DOES IN SIDECAR MODE, just disable the touch screen. Problem solved.

So imagine how bad a macOS-like interface, with traffic light buttons, infinite resize and positions, etc. would be. Well, we don't even have to imagine: we have dozens of Windows 10/11 so-called tablets out there, and no one* use them as tablets.

That sounds bad? Having the traffic light buttons and easily resizable windows sounds fantastic. It's why I hate using iPads and just use a Macbook now.

In the end, I think the professional potential of the iPad goes in line with maximizing the iPad-like, single-window interface. There are tons of AR, illustration, video editing, etc. apps. Customers use them professionally. Some people think making the iPad a professional device means making it a subpar PC. No professional user would buy that.

Is now a bad time to remind you of the existence of Samsung DeX Mode?

 

[cupcakes2000]

macOS on iPad could easily just disable the touchscreen and only work on keyboard and mice like it already does in Sidecar mode.

But wouldn't that then completely make it pointless? At this point, yes.. as you bang on and on about all the time, just get a MacBook Air. Removing the feature that makes an iPad and an iPad just to put a non optimised OS on it seems.... bizarre - to say the least.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

But wouldn't that then completely make it pointless?

Not really. As I hear from a lot of iPad users they got iPad Pros instead of Macbooks because they wanted versatility of the touchscreen and then be able to switch to a keyboard and mouse when they wanted. So putting macOS on the iPad wouldn't harm either devices, but in fact improve both. The Macbook Air would be the cheaper device running macOS with better ports, while the iPad Pro would have more flexibility.

It would be just like how the iPod Touch didn't make the iPhone pointless but offered a cheap way to get iOS.

At this point, yes.. as you bang on and on about all the time, just get a MacBook Air.

Yes a Macbook Air would be cheaper and have better battery life. But at the iPad Pro's higher cost you'd be paying to have a jack of all trades computer, one that was easier to transport, and a cheaper option to get a 120hz MiniLED display without shelling over $2000+ for a Macbook Pro.

Removing the feature that makes an iPad and an iPad just to put a non optimised OS on it seems.... bizarre - to say the least.

You can install Windows and Linux on Mac, two OSs not optimized for the Apple chips. It's an operating system. On the surface it's still an iPad. The Surface tablets are still Surfaces even if they didn't have Windows on them.

 

[Ludatyk]

But wouldn't that then completely make it pointless? At this point, yes.. as you bang on and on about all the time, just get a MacBook Air. Removing the feature that makes an iPad and an iPad just to put a non optimised OS on it seems.... bizarre - to say the least.

It's simple. If people are of the belief that Apple should put macOS on an iPad... I ask those people what's the purpose of the Mac then?

I enjoy the iPad for what it is... i do not want macOS on the iPad, why is that so hard to understand. If users prefer macOS then there is the MBA and MBP to use... why sacrifice the iPad for the sake of having an operating system that already exist on another product? I just don't understand.