iPhone will Never Ever... EVER Be On Verizon... at least until...

[str1f3]

Just curious Cleverboy, why do you feel the need to defend your position on this so vehemently?

Id like it to come to VZW, as thats who Im currently with, and honestly for me is the best service at the moment.



So if Apple is bringing a tablet to VZW why not the iPhone too? I realize until VZW either adopts GSM or whatever the newest network standard is that it likely isnt going to happen though.

If you look at it with a casual eye, it seems that talks between Verizon and Apple broke apart. A months ago Verizon was rumored to be talking to Apple. Verizon started kissing Apple's butt publicly and you had the curious comments from Stephenson at All Things D conference saying that he didn't believe that they could have iPhone exclusivity forever. Now Verizon is running ads directly against the iPhone which is unusual for a carrier.

While all this nonsense doesn't preclude a deal between Verizon and Apple, it is looking highly unlikely that we'll see Verizon carry the iPhone any time soon.

 

[xcrunner]

Regarding preinstalled Android Market, anything is possible. Let's get it straight that you don't know anything for sure unless you've got an official link or quote you've neglected to share (like my official Verizon quote on how all their smart phones will only have the VZ store preinstalled).

Yes I do. Straight from Verizon:

During a conference call to discuss the deal, Verizon also made clear it will allow Android Market to remain on its devices and have access to third-party apps.

 

[bruinsrme]

I personally like verizons decision to move into the droid space. This will offer consumers more choices.

 

[kdarling]

You of all people would know this so I'll ask; with apps does the app require a certain network type to run or does it run off any generic Internet connection? In other words do apps distinguish greatly between wifi/3G/EDGE/GPRS?

I've been writing mobile field apps for almost a decade. Up until recently, I always had to check if the user was connected via cellular or not. If not, then the assumption was a lack of service, and I popped up a modem dialer instead. Thank goodness those days are pretty much over (even though the US Census handheld still has a landline modem for use in very rural areas). Consumer phones don't have modems, of course.

So to answer your question: in general, modern consumer apps don't have to distinguish between connections. However, some iPhone apps do, for example to prevent us from using Slingplayer over 3G.

Outside of the iPhone, the only thing a programmer has to be careful of, is to make sure any comm timeouts take into account the speed of the slowest possible connection.

Also i am curious how much different is WCDMA and CDMA200?!

They share the same CDMA roots, but have diverged a lot over time in the details. Now they're about 50% alike, 50% different. There's no way to use one radio for the other, AFAIK.

One major difference is that WCDMA uses a three times higher clock rate in order to handle a wider bandwidth. While this is more battery and frequency hungry, it allows higher speeds.

While all this nonsense doesn't preclude a deal between Verizon and Apple, it is looking highly unlikely that we'll see Verizon carry the iPhone any time soon.

What you've said here makes sense.

 

[nateo200]

Apps will use standard APIs. The interface is determined by the underlying OS.

I've been writing mobile field apps for almost a decade. Up until recently, I always had to check if the user was connected via cellular or not. If not, then the assumption was a lack of service, and I popped up a modem dialer instead. Thank goodness those days are pretty much over (even though the US Census handheld still has a landline modem for use in very rural areas). Consumer phones don't have modems, of course.

So to answer your question: in general, modern consumer apps don't have to distinguish between connections. However, some iPhone apps do, for example to prevent us from using Slingplayer over 3G.

Outside of the iPhone, the only thing a programmer has to be careful of, is to make sure any comm timeouts take into account the speed of the slowest possible connection.



They share the same CDMA roots, but have diverged a lot over time in the details. Now they're about 50% alike, 50% different. There's no way to use one radio for the other, AFAIK.

One major difference is that WCDMA uses a three times higher clock rate in order to handle a wider bandwidth. While this is more battery and frequency hungry, it allows higher speeds.

Alright that makes sense so for the mist part if this were to happen theoretically the arguement "but all the developers would have to reprogram there apps" is pretty much null and void as far as 90% if apps go just as it was when the iPhone got a WCDMA chipset....of course there's exceptions but still.

 

[nateo200]

The point of this thread is to put down the CONSTANT and INCESSANT patter about the iPhone possibly going to Verizon. The likelihood of this happening is VERY VERY LOW. Think "lottery win" type odds. It's more likely that Creative Labs will come out with a phone on Verizon than it is that Verizon will get the iPhone.

That's kind of why there is an "at least until" at the end of the title. Anyone can feel free to have their own "at least until", but mine stands as writ.

My opinion is that thinking of it as anything other than an unlikely possibility is overly optimistic. I'll be the first one to admit egg on my face if the near-impossible happens, but I think people need a reality check at some point.

That's all. There's an almost compulsive activity underway that has people guessing at how this can happen. Until it does... I say, assume it won't.

If you're interested in CDMA hiring rumors, maybe you should ask... "Will the iPhone come to Sprint?" I think this is a much MUCH higher probability, although the same technical hurdles apply... however, the "control" hurdles virtually disappear. Sprint is a whore right now. They'll agree to almost anything if it'll stop the bleeding.

But, Verizon? Hey, the Red Sox won the world series. As "Angels in the Outfield" taught us, "Anything can happen." Just realize that the payout is high for a reason.

~ CB

I lol'd hard. Sad but true...see there newest palm pre plans for reference.

Verizon is hardly out of the running because of the iPhone.

Verizon is booming right now. Even with all there **** phones that look cool and have ****** verizon pre-loaded UI's all the teenage girls go crazy over them. I think if I did a pole at my highschool now about 55-70% of people would be on verizon with the rest on other networks. Keep in mind my school is pretty wealthy so that goes to show some familys prefer reliabilty over cool phones. THAT is how verizon makes money. My sister still doesn't get why I hate verizon and claims I know nothing about cellphones (lel). Verizon in my opion is going to stay like this too, I don't see why they would change a huge money making scheme.

It sounds to me like the OP is just posting hella information, with no credible/up-to-date sources...

You don't know what kind of arrangements have been made, so your whole no cdma for five years thing is most likely inaccurate... Once I read that, I gave up on the post.

Lol...no credible up to date info? You've got to me ******** me! Your just like every verizon fanboy who says "I'll get the iPhone next year when it's on verizon!!!" even when the information has been cleanly laid out with various types of formats whether it be verizons newest in your face advertisements directly targetting the iPhone, the huge tech barrier and the fact apple doesn't belive CDMA2000 is going anywhere or possibly cold hard solid quotes from apple executives stating something like CDMA2000 is going know where.


Also what are the real chances of the iphone being directly advertised on T-Mobile USA with the current frequency barrier? I mean you can't advertise a 3G phone if it's not gonna run on 3G....any chance T-Mobile could grab some 850mhz for UMTS? Would be the only hope....otherwise just wait for the contract to expire and grab an unlocked iPhone if and when it's available and deal with T-Mobiles EDGE service (which I might add will be better that AT&Ts...).

 

[rkdiddy]

I agree with the OP. Verizon will more than likely continue to release phones that they will try to convince us are better than the iPhone.

 

[elfxmilhouse]

It wont happen until Verizon switches to GMRS which is rumored to be happening mid 2010... I'm not really sure how much truth is held on the matter, but last I saw on google and other sites, it is being slowly implemented

uhhh... GMRS? as in walkie talkies?

can i use my motorola 2 way radios on verizon next year?

 

[Andy348]

I wouldn't go as far as saying it'll never happen because Bell up here in Canada just changed to a GSM network and will be carrying the iPhone.

Anything can happen

 

[nateo200]

I wouldn't go as far as saying it'll never happen because Bell up here in Canada just changed to a GSM network and will be carrying the iPhone.

Anything can happen

It would be so awesome if Verizon decided to create a UMTS overlay for compatible phones. I would be so happy but I think verizon would NEVER do that....if they do though I would LOVE to be proven wrong....Its a little late to do that though. Oh well Ill just wait for LTE (yeah....)...

 

[Cleverboy]

Verizon's latest commercial:

iDon't have a real keyboard
iDon't run simultaneous apps
iDon't take night shots
iDon't allow open development
iDon't customize
iDon't run widgets
iDon't have interchangeable batteries
Everything iDon't

DROID DOES

http://www.droiddoes.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPYM-XTqcec

In other news, there are rumors that Verizon will finally be getting the iPhone! --Wait, what? Oh, sorry. That makes absolutely no sense, you're right.

Looks like this new campaign, combined with an Android 2.0 OS, will determine the future of this discussion. Apple is going to need a substantive January upgrade.

I think the truly up-and-coming OS players in the mobile space right now:

- Apple iPhone OS
- Google Android
- Palm WebOS

Break that down into AT&T and Verizon:
Verizon - Palm WebOS / Android
AT&T - iPhone OS

Maybe Verizon needs iPhone OS to... I don't know.. complete the set?

I wouldn't go as far as saying it'll never happen because Bell up here in Canada just changed to a GSM network and will be carrying the iPhone.
Anything can happen

Anything COULD happen. Look at the quote of my earlier comments on this page. We're just screening out the highly unlikely so as to cut down the signal-to-noise ratio. Verizon is mentioned as a possible network far too often given the likelihood of that happening.

~ CB

 

[kdarling]

Break that down into AT&T and Verizon:
Verizon - Palm WebOS / Android
AT&T - iPhone OS

AT&T will have WebOS and Android, as well.

AT&T's CEO has publicly said he wants both Palm Pre models. They're also supposedly getting a Dell manufactured Android phone in 2010.

Both carriers also have the latest WinMo phones, which are no slouches.

 

[Cleverboy]

AT&T will have WebOS and Android, as well.
AT&T's CEO has publicly said he wants both Palm Pre models. They're also supposedly getting a Dell manufactured Android phone in 2010.
Both carriers also have the latest WinMo phones, which are no slouches.

There's a stark difference between saying they are continuing to "study" Android and making an official announcement as Verizon has done, but I agree. Due to its nature, its only a matter of time before AT&T gets Android... I'm also sure AT&T wants the Palm Pre too. --and I may have missed a specific announcement of a forthcoming device, which would be awesome for someone knowledgeable to cite, if it exists.

Back to what I said though, of the three up-and-coming OS's, AT&T only has one and Verizon has two. This is just underscoring the point that its AT&T that needs to acquire new OS handsets, and that Verizon has been doing a good job playing catch-up to their historically limited selection.

I don't think WinMo is gaining much ground lately, so I personally don't consider its worth mentioning for now.

~ CB

 

[Cleverboy]

Both carriers also have the latest WinMo phones, which are no slouches.

I don't think WinMo is gaining much ground lately, so I personally don't consider its worth mentioning for now.

I also don't mean to slight Blackberry, titan that they are. Verizon, I believe, only relatively recently got its FIRST Blackberry handset, and will be soon getting the Storm 2. So, I'm thinking they'll still be ahead of AT&T in having the most OS handsets... nevermind the most cutting edge new mobile operating systems. AT&T needs to start breaking out some new OS handset announcements too.

If Apple's new MediaPad hits as a Verizon CDMA EXCLUSIVE, I think that will only compound AT&T's ailing brand perception given the issues of MMS and tethering support on the iPhone. Verizon's taking AT&T (and Apple by extension) to school ("there's a map for that", "droid does", etc), and launching a whole new brand image very shortly.

~ CB

 

[ViViDboarder]

I think the most indicitive point against VZ getting the iPhone has to be the new ads. They just plain DON'T WANT IT anymore.

What would they do? Release a "Just Kidding, iDoes it too!" ad to sell the iPhone along side the Droid?

The other reasons, while clever, were no more convincing than the reasons put forth trying to suggest VZ was going to carry the iPhone.

 

[kdarling]

I also don't mean to slight Blackberry, titan that they are.

Yep, RIM constantly outsells Apple in the U.S. by about two to one, overall, if I recall correctly.

Verizon, I believe, only relatively recently got its FIRST Blackberry handset, and will be soon getting the Storm 2.

Verizon has supported and sold Blackberries since 2003.

 

[Cleverboy]

Verizon has supported and sold Blackberries since 2003.

Must have been the announcement of the first CDMA/GSM (world) phone on Verizon back when the first iPhone first came out. I pay very little attention to Blackberry, but they've definitely been making the numbers. The article didn't quite keep my interesting unfortunately.

I keep getting the impression that RIM is just going to implode at some point without a clear vision. First they said they wouldn't do a touch phone, then they can't shut up about it. I can't figure them out yet.

~ CB

 

[kdarling]

I keep getting the impression that RIM is just going to implode at some point without a clear vision. First they said they wouldn't do a touch phone, then they can't shut up about it. I can't figure them out yet.

The thing about RIM, is they went from being just a business device, to seeing 50% of their sales going to normal consumers almost overnight.

That switch seems to have caught them off guard. However, they're starting to figure it out:

The Storm 2 is getting some nice reviews, and RIM just bought the makers of Iris, a webkit based browser.

 

[nateo200]

I keep getting the impression that RIM is just going to implode at some point without a clear vision. First they said they wouldn't do a touch phone, then they can't shut up about it. I can't figure them out yet.

~ CB

haha same. Blackberrys are still very popular amongst smart phone users even with the iPhone but they just seam so bland and without a clear vision for the future. Honestly did you think that they were never gonna do a touch screen phone? Pretty hard to do that as it's more or less looking like it's going to be the standard for handsets world wide. I still think a solid keyboard apeals to many business guys however and that keeping that line of handsets is important.

 

[crackbookpro]

Without reading the whole thread to know if this has been said Apple knows they could sell probably upwards of another 7-9million units if they had an iPhone for VZW. And conversely VZW knows they could lock in millions of new customers that would defect from ATT if the iPhone were available.

Apple and VZW are in business to make $, and a partnership would be very lucrative to both.

Unless you work at Apple and are the one calling the shots dont pretend like you are an authoritarian on this subject.

As simple as it - this is why I don't agree with this thread!

Both companies are in it to make money. I know there is some great tech talk going on in this thread, and most of it makes total sense, but the easiest thing to understand is - the concept of a business! It sounds uneducated and simple, but it is the truth...

Everyone wants to make 'the dough' in a business! The technology of CDMA, LTE, GSM, and the new 'droiddoes' ads is nothing compared to businessmen looking for new ways to make money and attract a market oppurtunity.

Like VoodooDaddy states, Apple & Verizon are in it to make money!

 

[nateo200]

The thing about RIM, is they went from being just a business device, to seeing 50% of their sales going to normal consumers almost overnight.

That switch seems to have caught them off guard. However, they're starting to figure it out:

The Storm 2 is getting some nice reviews, and RIM just bought the makers of Iris, a webkit based browser.

Solid point I've noticed this trend as well. They are a bit late ti JUST be figuring it out however.

 

[Hankster]

I agree. People keep thinking the iPhone will be on Verizon. It is not going to happen anytime soon. Apple would have to develop a new phone because the networks are different. And, ATT will fight very hard to keep the iPhone theirs because it is their flagship phone. ATT is not stupid.

Also, a very strong indication the iPhone is not coming to Verizon is the recent agreement between Google and VZ to create phones, they are in DIRECT competition with the iPhone.

I give it maybe - maybe - 5 years before the iPhone is on a Verizon network.

 

[kdarling]

Must have been the announcement of the first CDMA/GSM (world) phone on Verizon back when the first iPhone first came out. I pay very little attention to Blackberry, but they've definitely been making the numbers. The article didn't quite keep my interesting unfortunately.

Ah! This also reminds me of the fact that RIM makes over 28% of their income from Verizon Blackberry sales and service.

Forget Apple worrying about Verizon teaming up with Google. RIM stands to lose much more in the near future, because of it!

 

[TapHappy]

Droid Army Approaching

2010 will be a very interesting year. Google has managed to flank Apple in every direction. Android 2.0 with native Exchange support makes it a serious business platform, especially being a completely open development environment. Don't know how long Apple can depend on the AT&T partnership.

 

[Cleverboy]

Ah! This also reminds me of the fact that RIM makes over 28% of their income from Verizon Blackberry sales and service.
Forget Apple worrying about Verizon teaming up with Google. RIM stands to lose much more in the near future, because of it!

Exactly. If you notice, the most insightful industry watchers have been saying for a while now, that Android IS NOT truly competing against Apple, but against RIM. With its vertically integrated business model, Apple isn't even attempting to satisfy everyone, which is why it couldn't care less about Verizon. Google, on the otherhand has eclipsed Microsoft in executing a ubiquitous, desireable, flexible next-generation mobile OS platform, and are clearly targeting Blackberry customers as WinMo is marginalized... even as RIM exhibits some schizophrenia as to whether it would or would not produce a touch-only device strategy.

Meanwhile, Apple enjoys the luxury of not needing to be all things to all people, but to do one thing and at least attempt to do it well.

~ CB