iPhone will Never Ever... EVER Be On Verizon... at least until...

[kdarling]

a cdma only iphone on verizon would be pointless...i would much rather have an unlocked gsm version to use on att/tmobile. after travelling so much, swapping sim cards is the best thing instead of having a practically useless cdma only phone.

You can't swap SIM cards on a stock ATT iPhone either.

however, if verizon actually does get the iphone, it would be even more interesting if apple made it dual cdma/gsm (like the touch pro 2).

Yes, that'd be cool. Plus Verizon has been unlocking the GSM side for anyone who asks. I've even heard of people using an ATT SIM on some of them. (Not verified by me.)

however, verizon would rape the hell out of everyone who uses it, in terms of prices. they are already expensive enough....:/

Their plans are the same price as ATT.

So, this seems to preclude a separate model of phone that does CDMA, but NOT a phone that does Quad-Band GSM and CDMA together... but they would need to deal with a lot of troubling issues. The mysterious disappearance of features like "add/hold/drop users from conference calls" and "web browsing while on a call". Also, would Verizon support visual voice mail, iTunes activation, and iTunes mobile?

Verizon has three way conference calling on all phones, and Visual Voicemail is an option. The web browsing part is valid, unless you're using VoIP for voice.

No idea what they'd think of iTunes, but it sounds like they're willing to overlook it.

If you're streaming your Internet Radio over your cellular signal (on the road with no WiFi in sight), does that mean all of your calls are blocked?

No, you're thinking of EDGE. On EVDO, voice has priority. (Actually, on many phones you can set whether it does or not, as your preference.)

 

[Cleverboy]

Verizon has three way conference calling on all phones,

Mm. I'm specifically talking about "adding/holding/dropping" individual callers in a conference call, not just the ability to do one. On the iPhone, if you're in a call you are alerted of someone new calling you... you can switch over, and then merge the two calls, you can then tap on one of the callers and "drop" them later. My understanding is that Verizon lacks this capability on the technical end.

and Visual Voicemail is an option.

I'm thinking of an implementation compatible with Apple's, not just the feature itself. I've definitely seen them roll it out.

The web browsing part is valid, unless you're using VoIP for voice.

Of course.

No idea what they'd think of iTunes, but it sounds like they're willing to overlook it.

I wonder if Apple's iTunes/Ringtone support set-up is already fractured amongst its carriers. While I think I MAY have seen Amazon Mp3 Store on a Verizon smartphone (a recent development I think), I'd question if Verizon would let Apple cut into its ringtone sales at all. Seems antithetical to what they're doing. But, maybe they're changing it. Last I heard they were launching a big initiative to unify their smartphone support, not allow it to continue its various complexities.

No, you're thinking of EDGE. On EVDO, voice has priority. (Actually, on many phones you can set whether it does or not, as your preference.)

Interesting. So, your saying that if you have an ACTIVE data connection... streaming video or audio for instance... voice can literally "interrupt" the data stream... as specified by your settings (that its not a "first come first served" scenario).

I'd read one customer had a setting on Sprint that allowed him to automatically send calls to voicemail instead of having the calls simply not connect.

http://androidforums.com/70978-post10.html

To all I don't have this issue but I was able to recreate it and may know how to fix it!
Note: I have htc hero sprint but this is most likely the same on other phones.
Menu/Call settings/Uncheck DDTM mode.
DDTMMODE:Send voice calls to voicemail during active data connection

Look at this post about the Pre on Sprint:
http://www.precentral.net/palm-pre-simultaneous-voice-data-evdo
It reads pretty messy and inconsistent. There seems to be the implication that consistency depends very much on the type of tower your connected to... EVDO or 1x. Bleh. In any case, you may or may not get your phone calls during a data connection (voicemail or not).

I'll admit to not really knowing Verizon's situation (different from Sprint).

I sware though, frank, clear conversations like the one above regarding the Pre seem few and far between. It feels like kool-aid drinking in my opinion... because these are important issues in my book, and lead to a lot of confusion otherwise.

The devil is certainly in these details. Most reviewers seem blissfully unaware of them. It's really queer to me, as I'd find them particularly important personally.

~ CB

 

[kdarling]

Interesting. So, your saying that if you have an ACTIVE data connection... streaming video or audio for instance... voice can literally "interrupt" the data stream... as specified by your settings (that its not a "first come first served" scenario).

EVDO is normally set by Verizon to have voice priority.

On some phones there's an EVDO setting where you can specify if an incoming voice call should pause your data session... or, if data should take precedence and incoming voice calls go straight to voicemail.

Currently I'm writing CDMA Blackberry apps, and if a data request times out, we check to see if a phone call paused the data connection. If so, then we can try again as soon as the call is over. Not ideal, but not bad.

 

[kevink2]

If AT&T can't run a good network in the middle of the largest US cities I doubt they will be able to make one run in the middle of the Black Hills.

I can back up that the coverage for ATT isn't all that good compared to states like Oklahoma. I was back to SD in September, and in my travels from Yankton to Pierre, then a couple days in the Black Hills region, I was getting tired of seeing "No Service". But there are also big chunks of Nebraska outside the major cities that are the same way.

 

[Cleverboy]

Currently I'm writing CDMA Blackberry apps, and if a data request times out, we check to see if a phone call paused the data connection. If so, then we can try again as soon as the call is over. Not ideal, but not bad.

Interesting. The weird thing for me, is that I upgraded my iPhone to 3G partially for the real GPS and partially for the fact that I'd be able to browse the Internet while I was on a call. I'm annoyed enough I can't "answer" calls and have the phone app automatically return to being in the background while I'm doing something else. But, manually going back to Google Maps, web browsing, or other Internet connected tasks like using Shazam, YouTube, or Twitter in the absence of WiFi doesn't seem so bad versus not having that option at all on Verizon.

~ CB

 

[spacemnspiff]

Hope people have read this article on what Verizon CEO has to say about Verizon still wanting iPhone.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/26/droid-or-not-verizon-still-wants-the-apple-iphone/

Excerpt:
It seems that Ivan Seidenberg thinks Steve Jobs has a thick skin.

Even though the wireless unit of Verizon Communications started an aggressive ad campaign for its new Droid handset that directly challenges the iPhone, Mr. Seidenberg, Verizon’s chief executive, said he would be delighted to sell Apple’s smartphone.

 

[citi]

Interesting, my bullet might have been unclear. AT&T Exclusivity separate from a ban on CDMA compatible iPhones.

No. I'm sure I'm quite right here, as draconian as it sounds. Verizon isn't "simply installing" anything. They WILL NOT SELL a phone that doesn't have their App Store installed and other App Stores NOT PRESENT. This is, as they say, a NON-STARTER, as Apple's system requires pre-installation of the AppStore and requires the AppStore be THE exclusive outlet for iPhone apps.

~ CB

You are quite wrong. Have you looked at Blackberry Lately? Have you looked at the Droid? Both of these phone have their own app stores, that are preinstalled on the device. The verizon app store on my blackberry Storm has visual voice mail, vacast, song ID and myverizon. I'd hardly call that an appstore.

The days of Verizon locking down systems are long gone. I think you are confusing smartphones, for the standard LGs and Nokias floating around. Then yes, you are correct on Verizon pushing their appstore. NOT on smartphones. In fact winmo phones don't have an appstore either. If you don't know, or really use the carrier, perhaps keep misinformation to yourself.

 

[Cleverboy]

The days of Verizon locking down systems are long gone. I think you are confusing smartphones, for the standard LGs and Nokias floating around. Then yes, you are correct on Verizon pushing their appstore. NOT on smartphones. In fact winmo phones don't have an appstore either. If you don't know, or really use the carrier, perhaps keep misinformation to yourself.

No... I'm not. This thread is just too long to track all the statements. I was referring to Verizon's new App Store for Smart Phones initiative (this is from July of this year!)

And while Verizon is romancing developers, the carrier isn’t as solicitous of its handset partners. Verizon’s Ryan Hughes, VP Partner Management, said in an interview Friday that the network operator’s app store will be the sole marketplace on devices sold by the company, meaning stores such as Research In Motion’s BlackBerry App World or Microsoft’s Windows Mobile Marketplace won’t get placement on Verizon handsets unless a consumer downloads them. Hughes also said that Verizon is focusing on aggregating content from four different developer communities: Windows Mobile, Palm, Android and BlackBerry.

http://gigaom.com/2009/07/13/verizon-to-mobile-developers-can-you-hear-me-now/

I'm guessing however, that they've reversed course, following their slipping numbers compared to AT&T. Trust me, I have all my indicators lined up, but apparently I'm challenging Murphy's Law.

It appears Apple is about to upset my Apple cart.

Report: Apple to launch Verizon iPhone in Q3 2010
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/11/06/report_apple_to_launch_verizon_iphone_in_q3_2010.html

Good article though.

The American technological rift between CDMA providers (including Sprint and Verizon) and GSM/UMTS providers (T-Moblie and AT&T) was widely expected to remain in place until Verizon moved to LTE, the next generation of UMTS service.

In other countries, CDMA providers have either shut down their networks and moved entirely to UMTS service (as Telstra did in Australia) or added a UMTS overlay to their existing CDMA service (as Bell and Telus just recently did in Canada). In the US, Verizon decided to do neither, and instead will only be investing in a new next generation LTE network that won't be completed for years.

This appeared to leave little opportunity for a Verizon iPhone before 2011, but Qualcomm's "worldmode" hybrid component enables Apple to continue offering a single iPhone version that can be sold by both AT&T and Verizon in the US, and on virtually every carrier outside the US.

It does however give AT&T a year to improve its 3G network and roll out the 3G MicroCell before being hit with mass defections from iPhone users irate over service issues. AT&T can still advertise that its 3G network is faster than Verizon's CDMA2000 coverage, and that it offers some features that CDMA2000 does not, including simultaneous voice and data and easy to use, multiple party conference calling.

Conclusion:
1. Apple is hellbent on CRUSHING its competition and saw an opportunity.
2. Verizon is more desperate to keep its customers than I thought.
3. Verizon is evil.

Verizon is evil? Why is that? Two reasons. They just launched ads saying how the Droid is better, then increased cancellation fees on the Droid, and now they're going to gradually start seeping in the rumor that the iPhone is coming in 2010. How rude!

~ CB

 

[bearbear]

So now you've gone from presenting "facts" to just saying Verizon won't get the iPhone because they're "evil." C'mon, this is getting a little ridiculous. Apple wants $$$, stockholders want $$$, and Apple users want at least an option to use a different, and in most areas a better, network.

I think another problem Apple is going to have with Android is that cell manufacturers are going to be able to put dozens of different models out per year combined, while Apple will only be updating the iPhone once a year. The plus side of that is that it's going to push Apple to really get creative with their updates, which I think is a win for everyone.

This next year is really going to be interesting I think. Can't wait to see what comes out.

 

[Hankster]

I love when people act so cocky about being "right" and clearly end up being so wrong.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/815749/

 

[ruinfx]

I love when people act so cocky about being "right" and clearly end up being so wrong.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/815749/

so you are saying someone is wrong based on a rumor? how does that make you any better?

 

[Primejimbo]

so you are saying someone is wrong based on a rumor? how does that make you any better?

That link is still a rumor "AT&T's exclusivity contract with Apple is believed to expire in mid 2010."
Again no one knows for sure and we'll just have to wait.

 

[str1f3]

So now you've gone from presenting "facts" to just saying Verizon won't get the iPhone because they're "evil." C'mon, this is getting a little ridiculous. Apple wants $$$, stockholders want $$$, and Apple users want at least an option to use a different, and in most areas a better, network.

I think another problem Apple is going to have with Android is that cell manufacturers are going to be able to put dozens of different models out per year combined, while Apple will only be updating the iPhone once a year. The plus side of that is that it's going to push Apple to really get creative with their updates, which I think is a win for everyone.

This next year is really going to be interesting I think. Can't wait to see what comes out.

I agree that next year will be interesting on many levels. I think that next year is the year when you will see a big time update to the iPhone OS and the competition that Android brings to the market. While many would like to make this an Apple vs. Android thing, I believe that You are going to see Android start to slowly kill off Windows Mobile and Symbian. Palm may also be in danger.

Apple is not going to lose market share to Android and their growth will continue. Recent reports suggest that most people are still going the iPhone and Blackberry route as their next purchase in the US. The problem for Android going forward is that it's starting to become less of a platform like Windows Mobile. There is no level of consistency to the software and its becoming fractured. These phones all look diffrerent and some have features that others lack such as multitouch.

I'd seriously doubt that Apple updating once a year is a problem. It is not like the PC industry where there are processor updates every six months. The cycle is about once a year.

 

[Cleverboy]

so you are saying someone is wrong based on a rumor? how does that make you any better?

LOL. It's all good fun, until people start getting angry about it. Personally, as I said earlier in the thread (after reading the AppleInsider story)... I'm admitting defeat. I think this was a very interesting conversation... only possible when people stand on opposing platforms and present their arguments.

People that stand on the sidelines and snarkily post links to other rumors as fact, really don't add much value to the discussion in my opinion.

So now you've gone from presenting "facts" to just saying Verizon won't get the iPhone because they're "evil." C'mon, this is getting a little ridiculous.

Am I still saying Verizon won't get the iPhone? If you're not actually going to read the post, why even bother responding to it? I was digging for irony. I see a lot of potential for duplicitous manuvering on Verizon's part. I don't fault them for it. I just think people need to look at all of these carriers for their benefits and their flaws.

Seriously, though. I'm very "persuaded" at this point that Verizon will get the iPhone in 2010. If Apple has ACTUALLY found a chipset that they like, then its a done deal. As I mentioned earlier, I was dubious that these multiple standard chipsets met with Apple's requirements as of yet. But, I realize technology keeps improving at a frenetic pace... so... Only a matter of time. With nothing to go off of, I felt it was equally likely that multiple-standard chipsets will always be a token offering (enforced by carriers forcing manufactures to make phones NOT be cross-compatible with other networks... indeed this was reported by USAToday to be the case with the iPhone for 5 years). With the adoption by the vaunted "iPhone", Broadcom has the opportunity to open up a whole new level of demand for this type of product.

Apple wants $$$, stockholders want $$$, and Apple users want at least an option to use a different, and in most areas a better, network.

Um, ok.

I think another problem Apple is going to have with Android is that cell manufacturers are going to be able to put dozens of different models out per year combined, while Apple will only be updating the iPhone once a year. The plus side of that is that it's going to push Apple to really get creative with their updates, which I think is a win for everyone.

It IS a win for everyone. Don't forget, that this thread isn't about Android. I love Android. I think discussing the difference and advantages and disadvantages over Apple and Google's approaches is a whole other discussion. I think Google potentially has lightning in a bottle.

This next year is really going to be interesting I think. Can't wait to see what comes out.

Yes. 2010. It will be VERY revealing I think. Not least of which... January... should be very revealing. June 2010, will be interesting... but we'll likely have a clearer impression what to expect by then. Apple can't keep its secrets fully cloaked anymore.

~ CB

 

[Cleverboy]

http://www.macnn.com/articles/09/12/02/apple.verizon.policies.in.conflict/

A deal between Apple and Verizon may take longer to materialize than normally assumed, says Kaufman analyst Shaw Wu. AT&T's exclusive hold on the American iPhone is expected to end in summer 2010, and Wu notes that adding Verizon to the list of carriers could open up a market of 89 million potential US customers, greater than AT&T's current 82 million. AT&T will likely push to have the contract extended into 2011, Wu comments.

A more significant problem is said to be the "conflicting interests" of Apple and Verizon. Both companies are described as driven by a desire for high profits, as well as customer control -- Apple through iTunes, and Verizon through V CAST. Verizon may in fact intend to offer its own mobile app store, though it has not announced any formal plans.

The carrier also enjoys high profit margins, as even the Motorola Droid is believed to have an ASP (average selling price) of just $450 per unit, as compared to the $700 AT&T pays for the iPhone. RIM's BlackBerries have an ASP of $340, while Palm devices are valued at $436. Either Apple or Verizon may be forced to make a sacrifice.

Wu argues that it may thus be more likely that T-Mobile or even Sprint could become "more willing partners" in the near term. T-Mobile has the present advantage, as it relies on the same network platform as AT&T, even if its 3G operates on a different band. Verizon may only gain the iPhone when LTE (4G) becomes available on both its network and AT&T's, which could happen as late as 2012.

Interesting. Shaw Wu makes many of the exact same points I made earlier, adding the part about the valuation of the devices being another significant obstacle.

In this thread, I mentioned:

• Conflict of interest between Apple & Verizon
• Verizon SmartPhone App Store
• T-Mobile and Sprint are more likely partners
• Wait until 2011 for 4G may be more desirable for partnership

I almost feel "Reasons why the iPhone won't be on Verizon" should be a Family Fued question by now! Survey says!

--That said, one of my more significant obstacles (developing ONE PHONE that would do both CDMA & GSM to Apple's satisfaction... an important caveat) seems to be more "doable" with the recent statements about Broadcom's new GSM/CDMA-EVDO/LTE-capable radio chipsets. That said, I've been hearing the radios do not yet have enough field-testing under their belts.

I have given up the "Verizon never... until" stance though. Enough dust has been kicked up, that its at least close to a 50% chance (its within 15% points I think).

~ CB

 

[Applejuiced]

I dont know but seeing the recent Apple commercials about talk and surf at the same time aimed obviously towards Verizon I highly doubt it will happen any time soon.
Can your network do that ad focuses on the iPhone's ability to carry voice and data simultaneously while taking shots at Verizons network and phones.
And then put out an iphone thats unable to accomplish that to a competing CDMA network that keeps attacking their product? Seems unlikelly to me.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/ByteOfTheApple/blog/archives/2009/11/apple_launching.html

 

[JoJoCal19]

Cleverboy, while I disagree with your statements in the original post atleast you didnt make the stupid argument this one guy on CrackBerry did. After going back and forth on it he said since Verizon is releasing commercials against Apple at this point in time and Verizon/Apple would have to already be meeting right now, there was no way there will be an iPhone and thats fact. What a tard. I then said, well unless you are on either Verizon/Apples executive board, engineering or testing then you dont know whats going on behind the scenes. He then proceeded to go off for me suggesting it was speculation and he cant state something as fact.

 

[nateo200]

I just want to say this was a great debate, glad I got to take part in it. And with new rumors with more to go on like the qualcomm radios being made maybe ill eat my words, not that that's a bad thing.