Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Is Apple’s new “Pro = Beefy” design language a mistake?
- Thread starter heretiq
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
This is an interesting post. Wouldn't it make sense that possibly, professional models would include more hardware, which translates into needing more packaging size?
I think the problem is when people buy more than they need because they shoot for the best because they think they need the best but then don’t like the bulk? Those true pros that truly benefit from the extra “Pro” function hardly notice the bulk because they’re too pleased with the power.
I think the problem is when people buy more than they need because they shoot for the best because they think they need the best but then don’t like the bulk? Those true pros that truly benefit from the extra “Pro” function hardly notice the bulk because they’re too pleased with the power.
OP simply doesn’t want a “Pro“ model that can unfold more or less all its power without throttling or sounding like a jet engine
I think the problem is segmentation and packaging. Specifically the assumption that all “Pro” users require a) the best display tech, b) multiple ports, and c) top of the line CPU/GPU performance. Collectively, these features may necessitate a bigger device footprint; but if you just need one of these you are stuck with a device that delivers all three.
This is a hard problem to solve, so I’m not faulting Apple for the solution they delivered because I do love my 16” M1 Max MacBook Pro; but it is too bulky for me — so I am hoping that the rumored 2023 15” MacBook Air provides the compactness of an Air with the performance of a 2021 MBPro Max!
I just wish Apple would find a way to get the best screen tech across the lineups -- at least optionally as an upgrade.
Screen quality/tech upgrades have been a thing forever on PC laptops.
It makes sense -- the screen being a lot better is something any type of user might benefit from.
You might just be a writer who only needs the power of an MBA -- but you'd absolutely be likely to upgrade to the best possible screen, as you'll be looking at it and using it all day long.
That type of user (among many others) shouldn't have to tote around a massive aircraft carrier 16" MBP just to have a great screen -- leaving aside the cost and wasted power, etc
Screen quality/tech upgrades have been a thing forever on PC laptops.
It makes sense -- the screen being a lot better is something any type of user might benefit from.
You might just be a writer who only needs the power of an MBA -- but you'd absolutely be likely to upgrade to the best possible screen, as you'll be looking at it and using it all day long.
That type of user (among many others) shouldn't have to tote around a massive aircraft carrier 16" MBP just to have a great screen -- leaving aside the cost and wasted power, etc
I have the 15” TouchBar Intel and 16” M1 Pro for work. The TouchBar models are the worst! The 15” would run so hot that its edges would scald me and the fan is so loud. I requested the Intel for compatibility work. The 16” is cool to the touch doing the same tasks. It’s a tad tall for bags but still fits 15” laptop sleeves. The new 14” and 16” are the best of both worlds of the retina models and thinness of the TouchBar.
Yes, I had the 17 inch, two 15 inch, and the 16 inch both for stationary and travelling (I'm a part time digital nomad).
"... that you are sharing an insufficiently informed opinion ... ". Really? Grow up...
Last edited:
What are you comparing it to? Or for that matter, why? These machines are designed from the ground up with all kinds of priorities:
- Thermals for CPU and GPU, which is still a concern for Apple Silicon no matter how much better it is than Intel.
- Sturdiness
- Battery
- Ports I/O
- Keyboard
- Display
All of these things contribute to the design of the chasis. It is not any bigger than it needs to be to address the design priorities.
So buy a MacBook Air. That's what they're for. You obviously don't actually need a MacBook Pro, because no MacBook Pro user actually cares about this or would trade the performance and capabilities because of this ridiculous "problem".
Please no more thin, undercooled laptops at the top of the range. 2016-2019 MBPs were a mess.
I had an MSI 15" gaming laptop that was my main gaming rig for around three years. While overall it was larger and heavier than my 14" MBP, it was almost the same thickness as my current rig and couldn't run any games without sounding like a jet engine trying to take off from a launchpad at Kennedy Space Center. The MSI machine also used a 180W power adapter, which was a royal pain to lug around since the machine got jack for abttery life even in power saving mode. This was a 9th gen i7 running a 1660 Ti videocard, so it wasn't a incapable machine by any means.
The point is that there is limit to how thin and light you can make a laptop without sacrificing things such as overall performance, heat, power consumption, etc. Yet the OP seemingly wants a laptop in the MBA form factor with Pro caliber performance (although they then turn around and say they'd be willing to sacrifice many of the ports that make a Pro machine a Pro machine). To be honest, the OP probably would have the best of both worlds with a 14" MBP instead of the 16" - overall smaller size, less weight, less drop in performance, etc. Also, the premise of the OP (Pro = "Beefy" being a mistake) falls apart when you consider that older Intel based MBPs (whether the 15" or even the older 17") both were physically larger and weighed more than the current 16" Apple Silicon models.
Apple has been working to deliver comparable and/or superior performance to the older Intel-based models in a thinner and lighter form factor that also consumes significantly less power than either their predecessors or laptops sold on the Windows PC side of the market. Even the current 14" MBP is around the same height and width as some of the 13" Intel MBPs, mainly because as the bezels shrunk down, the overall size of the laptops also shrunk, making them less "bulky" as a direct result.
The point is that there is limit to how thin and light you can make a laptop without sacrificing things such as overall performance, heat, power consumption, etc. Yet the OP seemingly wants a laptop in the MBA form factor with Pro caliber performance (although they then turn around and say they'd be willing to sacrifice many of the ports that make a Pro machine a Pro machine). To be honest, the OP probably would have the best of both worlds with a 14" MBP instead of the 16" - overall smaller size, less weight, less drop in performance, etc. Also, the premise of the OP (Pro = "Beefy" being a mistake) falls apart when you consider that older Intel based MBPs (whether the 15" or even the older 17") both were physically larger and weighed more than the current 16" Apple Silicon models.
Apple has been working to deliver comparable and/or superior performance to the older Intel-based models in a thinner and lighter form factor that also consumes significantly less power than either their predecessors or laptops sold on the Windows PC side of the market. Even the current 14" MBP is around the same height and width as some of the 13" Intel MBPs, mainly because as the bezels shrunk down, the overall size of the laptops also shrunk, making them less "bulky" as a direct result.
Yep. I remember how much flak did the Apple get for prioritizing form over function for 2016-2019 era Pros. Especially when they started putting the i9 in those cases, good grief.
I perceive the pro designs as somewhat violent or brutal. They present it that way in the videos and their music.
The old designs, like M1 MBA and even iPhone 14 Plus as a recent one, look much softer.
The old designs, like M1 MBA and even iPhone 14 Plus as a recent one, look much softer.
The chonky pros bother me too and I hope the trend toward that reverses.
I bought a 2022 M2 MBA as my personal device for travel. Could have easily waited for the M2 MBP, but I already haul a Pro around for work, didn't want to double that up. I bought the Air solely for the portability factor and haven't been at all displeased with it, even when stressing its capabilities. It's a little trooper.
I hear you but I'd still contend: If the "base" model Mac or iPhone or iPad doesn't deliver enough of either a), b), or c) and someone needs one or all of them, then the size increase is the "price to pay," if that makes sense?
There's still a lot of DNA at Apple that thinks thinner is better, so I would think any size increase (weight, thickness) is the result of prioritizing function first over form, even if it comes somewhat begrudgingly out of the AAPL labs at the time...
And perhaps it's too much to expect 1 device to do it all. (an iPad will never replace my MacBook, and vice versa, even with a touchscreen MacBook). I myself "solved" the desire to keep an ultra-portable MacBook (M1 MBA) while longing for a larger monitor with more built-in inputs by buying a bare-bones Mac mini. I get the dual monitors function for more screen real estate, and super portability of the MBA.
As soon as customers (and Apple) get that there will be no one device to rule them all, the sooner that options for great not just "good" solutions arise.
PS. I fell for the trap myself, with my first Apple purchase. A 2005 Intel Mac Pro. I thought I future-proofed myself for 15 years and spent $2500 for it. I found I needed to upgrade by around 2014, and was "stuck" with its portliness until then. What a boat anchor that turned out to be...my usage case did not need what it offered and I would have been more than satisfied with any Mac option half its price at the time. Live and learn.
Last edited:
The edge shape of the current Pros annoy me because they're much harder to pick up than the old ones, and it makes the devices appear a lot thicker, but the overall thickness and weight I can tolerate because it is well used.
Totally agree
I absolutely love the look of the 2015 15" I'm on right now.
The slight edge slope does wonders on perception and also "grabbability"
I see your point but don't understand why going from an 16inch to 15inch Air would make your life better. Meaning you will have less power and slightly less bulkiness (only useful while traveling). I would see the point in going to 13", but 16" to 15" I don't see it as a big game changer.
I don't think that even a 15" Air makes sense at all, too many options already in the laptop section... It would be a very strange lineup with Air in 13-15 and Pro in 14-16. On the other hand, the current Apple line-up is a mess so i wouldn't be surprised.
I don't think that even a 15" Air makes sense at all, too many options already in the laptop section... It would be a very strange lineup with Air in 13-15 and Pro in 14-16. On the other hand, the current Apple line-up is a mess so i wouldn't be surprised.
It was not clear from your reply that you had actually used the devices. And as others have commented in this thread, while the differences in dimensions and weight look small on paper, the experience of hauling them around is significantly different. Hence the qualifying questions. Since you claim to have used the devices in question, I respect your informed but differing opinion. And finally, there is nothing immature about qualifying the basis of opinions while discussing subjective topics — that’s the basis of adult conversation. But selectively quoting someone to make a point .. not so much.
Here's my prediction, the rumored 2023 15" MacBook Air will have the performance of the smaller MacBook Air and you are going to continue to be puzzled as to why a laptop designed for performance is going to be bulkier than the corresponding Air.
Sure, I wish it weren't so, but that doesn't mean it's bad design language. It just means reality bites sometimes. Physics is real.
I think a 15" Air make eminent sense to potential buyers of a 13" Air who just want more screen real estate without the extra costly trimmings that come with a 14" - not least the extra performance. I imagine you only need 1 or 2 fast performance cores for a Safari session.
It's just that the marketing names for these are apparently the most well kept secret in Apple so any speculation over what a 15" 'Air' would be called is just speculation at this point - calling it a 'Macbook' without differentiation from an Air or a Pro would be an error if it's really just a bigger Air.
I quote: "... the experience of hauling them around is significantly different."
You did not write "... my experience of hauling them around is significantly different."
And it might very well be the case for you – and others – but not for everyone. And in each post in this thread you claim again and again and again with astonishingly absolute certainty to know what others experience...
I agree 100%. There will never be a perfect machine and I would probably regret the results if product managers gave me exactly what I wish for.I hear you but I'd still contend: If the "base" model Mac or iPhone or iPad doesn't deliver enough of either a), b), or c) and someone needs one or all of them, then the size increase is the "price to pay," if that makes sense?
There's still a lot of DNA at Apple that thinks thinner is better, so I would think any size increase (weight, thickness) is the result of prioritizing function first over form, even if it comes somewhat begrudgingly out of the AAPL labs at the time...
And perhaps it's too much to expect 1 device to do it all. (an iPad will never replace my MacBook, and vice versa, even with a touchscreen MacBook). I myself "solved" the desire to keep an ultra-portable MacBook (M1 MBA) while longing for a larger monitor with more built-in inputs by buying a bare-bones Mac mini. I get the dual monitors function for more screen real estate, and super portability of the MBA.
As soon as customers (and Apple) get that there will be no one device to rule them all, the sooner that options for great not just "good" solutions arise.
PS. I fell for the trap myself, with my first Apple purchase. A 2005 Intel Mac Pro. I thought I future-proofed myself for 15 years and spent $2500 for it. I found I needed to upgrade by around 2014, and was "stuck" with its portliness until then. What a boat anchor that turned out to be...my usage case did not need what it offered and I would have been more than satisfied with any Mac option half its price at the time. Live and learn.
Ha! I appreciate your future proofing story. Live and learn as you said! 😃
Interestingly, I purchased my first MacBook Pro in 2005 as well. It was a 17” MacBook Pro that I purchased to replace a hulking Compaq laptop — after a cardiologist diagnosed what I thought were symptoms of a heart condition (stabbing pains in the vicinity of my heart) as muscle tears.
The tears were the result of repetitive stress injuries caused by hoisting my laptop bag containing a bulky laptop, power brick, accessories and a binder on my shoulder daily. The 17” MacBook Pro was featherlight compared to that Compaq brick and I never looked back.
It’s ironic that hoisting and hauling the current 16” MacBook Pro and power brick plus iPad Pro is now giving me flashbacks to 2005 and reminding me of why I started using Macs in the first place. Go figure! 😂
You’re right, current Air specs would not meet my needs even with a 15” display.
What I’m hoping for is a 15” 2023 M2/M3 MacBook Air that can match the 32 GB RAM, 12 core CPU and 32 core GPU specs of the 2021 M1 Max MacBook Pro — nothing more.
My assumption is that Apple would maintain the same thickness and provide a 15” Retina display comparable to the 15” MacBook Pro Retina display.
Given the expected gains with 3nm AS, I’m hoping this is not entirely out of the question; but not expecting it.