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Sales mean zip notta zilch to the end customer. I (and 99.99999% os the consumer public) couldnt care if they sold 1,000 or 100,000,000. That means nothing to the purchasing customer; its a meaningless statistic. To the Apple board and shareholders, sure. The point there was solely that Apple has the highest profits wihout the highest shipments because they are cheap- that iss my guess why no 120hz this year. Didn't want to pay Samsung for the displays; the tried and true run of the mill ones are cheaper, hence = more profits.

Competitive price? So if they make this year's Pros $1050/1150 that is "competitive" to what else is on the market at that cost or less? Hardware at a lower price point is competitive these days; minus the processor. But what does a geekbench higher than a laptop actually MEAN to the end user? Little. Most real-world metrics show similar overall performance with the newest Qualcomm staff; within fractions of seconds and margin of error at least. And you can get a device that does 99% of what an $1100 iPhone does- big OLED (some high refresh, big battery, pretty good cameras- for half to 2/3 the iphone cost these days. Good phones are getting cheap and cheap phones are getting good.

You can't just say competitive iOS device; then your choices are pay the Apple price or not. Only 1 company makes them and is a nonsensical argument. If you MUST have iOS you pay the piper whatever they ask, for better or for worse.

Samsung just committed to 3 years of major OS updates, even for midrange devices. While not 4-5, but getting better. And arguably overall package superior hardware already. The reasons to choose Apple other than locked in the ecosystem are dwindling in recent years. iPhones arent "bad" but they are stagnant. And calling them "Pro" without any pro specs a true shame.

Sales mean nothing to the topic at hand. If innovation was sales based we'd still be on a 3GS device. Why improve when you can sell suckers hundreds of millions of the same old at a very low production cost? McDonald's sells hundreds of millions of crap burgers, that doesnt make them good or improving the good of cuisine. Consistent is about all you can say about it; which is Apple. Consistently mediocre lately. The last decent phone innovation was 2017 iPhone X and that was already years late to the OLED party as is; so not exactly fully commendable there

Sometimes technology as a whole needs to be pushed forward regardless of sales. Arguing AGAINST features/people asking for more for their high dollar being spent, when you dont HAVE to use them if you dont want to, is frankly nonsensical. No one is going to not buy an iPhone if it had a smaller notch or 120hz (which the plan was to let it be shut off per early iOS14 betas; and battery life mitigated by LTPO displays Samsung is already using. But we can go back to my argument that if Apple didnt shrink the dang battery there would be life to spare too)

High sales can get you in trouble too- complacency. Why change/push things forward if you can keep shoveling the same manure for big profits? R&D etc for new tech cost big $$$ and eats profits. To me Apple corporate culture is give them enough to keep our high profits; they have lost that Job's edge to push tech and into Cook's bean counter culture.

But I get it, there are plenty of people out there who will buy whatever Apple ships, or dont care about x/y/z feature as long as its iOS. Maybe that is part of the problem here too.....

You’ve gone on about so many things here I am not even interested in nor claimed. You’re right sales stats mean nothing to the consumer, never said they did. Profits mean nothing to the main consumer either. I talked about sales briefly just to illustrate that the iPhone is popular regardless of specs. I made that point very well actually so won’t further explain it.

Competitive pricing was my own point of view for my purchasing decision. You’ve misconstrued this into a general meaning to include everybody. I only buy iPhones so am not at all interested in what hardware Android comes with. I said competitive on price to mean what I deem is competitive on price. The Pro iPhones to me are not competitive so I don’t buy them regardless of what specs they come with.

You’ve wasted a hell of a lot of time responding to me and not really grasping what I was talking about.
 
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With all the off and on again 120hz rumours flying around is anyone going to buy the Pro models ONLY to see if 120hz could be turned on in the future? ignore camera specs and if not interested in 120hz!
 
Didn't read thru all 7 pages so not sure if someone else already suggested, but it's time for a brand new interface. Like Brand. New. Like not a modest evolution over iPhone 1. I mean pages and pages of icons with no page-to-page or folder sortability? Seriously? And the new "widget tiles" in the beta are crap and very limited. Plus all the lame workarounds for screen swiping from every conceivable angle to compensate for the notched phones' Achilles heel? Everyone is mad about the lack of hardware upgrades on the 12's, but the OS just sucks and after selling my latest 11 Pro I won't go back until there's a major release (and the odds of that happening are exactly zero). To be clear I like Apple's phone hardware and design philosophy in general, love the Watches, but my old Pixel 3 and aging Oneplus 7T (3 months old haha!) just humiliate iPhones in every respect. Until recently I switched back and forth every now and then, but Apple's really disappointed me with their lack of innovation and bloodthirsty, shameless obsession with profit, so screw them.
 
Didn't read thru all 7 pages so not sure if someone else already suggested, but it's time for a brand new interface. Like Brand. New. Like not a modest evolution over iPhone 1. I mean pages and pages of icons with no page-to-page or folder sortability? Seriously? And the new "widget tiles" in the beta are crap and very limited. Plus all the lame workarounds for screen swiping from every conceivable angle to compensate for the notched phones' Achilles heel? Everyone is mad about the lack of hardware upgrades on the 12's, but the OS just sucks and after selling my latest 11 Pro I won't go back until there's a major release (and the odds of that happening are exactly zero). To be clear I like Apple's phone hardware and design philosophy in general, love the Watches, but my old Pixel 3 and aging Oneplus 7T (3 months old haha!) just humiliate iPhones in every respect. Until recently I switched back and forth every now and then, but Apple's really disappointed me with their lack of innovation and bloodthirsty, shameless obsession with profit, so screw them.

This. This is the year I jump to Samsung. If they do come out with 120hz and a smaller notch then I may regret this decision but it's too late now 🤣

EDIT: Looks like same size notch. Now I await the final 120hz decision.
 
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This. This is the year I jump to Samsung. If they do come out with 120hz and a smaller notch then I may regret this decision but it's too late now
Personally I’d regret going to Samsung regardless of whether an iPhone is released with a battery killing 120Hz or a smaller notch. Neither of those items are demands for me personally but then I don’t buy Pro iPhones anyway because right think they are overpriced.
 
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Didn't read thru all 7 pages so not sure if someone else already suggested, but it's time for a brand new interface. Like Brand. New. Like not a modest evolution over iPhone 1. I mean pages and pages of icons with no page-to-page or folder sortability? Seriously? And the new "widget tiles" in the beta are crap and very limited. Plus all the lame workarounds for screen swiping from every conceivable angle to compensate for the notched phones' Achilles heel? Everyone is mad about the lack of hardware upgrades on the 12's, but the OS just sucks and after selling my latest 11 Pro I won't go back until there's a major release (and the odds of that happening are exactly zero). To be clear I like Apple's phone hardware and design philosophy in general, love the Watches, but my old Pixel 3 and aging Oneplus 7T (3 months old haha!) just humiliate iPhones in every respect. Until recently I switched back and forth every now and then, but Apple's really disappointed me with their lack of innovation and bloodthirsty, shameless obsession with profit, so screw them.

Brand new interface to browse app pages? I am occasionally surprised people even take the time to make any bigger attempts at organising this stuff. I throw my apps in a folder and launch them via search, for years already.

Besides, isn’t there some app library feature coming to help people do some sorting automatically if desired?
 
Brand new interface to browse app pages? I am occasionally surprised people even take the time to make any bigger attempts at organising this stuff. I throw my apps in a folder and launch them via search, for years already.

Besides, isn’t there some app library feature coming to help people do some sorting automatically if desired?

Sorting was just one of the many issues I have. It's wishful thinking but I'm looking for an Android-style opening up of the entire usability paradigm...open up the interface to qualified app developers to create launchers (similar to Microsoft or Nova Launcher) and other key elements. Apple certainly has no monopoly on good ideas, in fact their iphones now suggest the opposite, cobbling together a (same) new phone precisely every 12 months and letting the lemmings boost their stock price. They would cite Security Concerns as the issue at stake but regularly-updated Android is no less secure than iOS. They make a gazillion dollars with something like 15% of smartphone market share, you'd think they'd be licking their chops at the 85% they don't have but the only way they're going to win over significant Android users is by providing a similar user experience. OK I agree a huge majority of peeps don't care, I'm just throwing this out there for discussion since this is probably the best board on the web for rational discussion.
 
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Sorting was just one of the many issues I have. It's wishful thinking but I'm looking for an Android-style opening up of the entire usability paradigm...open up the interface to qualified app developers to create launchers (similar to Microsoft or Nova Launcher) and other key elements. Apple certainly has no monopoly on good ideas, in fact their iphones now suggest the opposite, cobbling together a (same) new phone precisely every 12 months and letting the lemmings boost their stock price. They would cite Security Concerns as the issue at stake but regularly-updated Android is no less secure than iOS. They make a gazillion dollars with something like 15% of smartphone market share, you'd think they'd be licking their chops at the 85% they don't have but the only way they're going to win over significant Android users is by providing a similar user experience. OK I agree a huge majority of peeps don't care, I'm just throwing this out there for discussion since this is probably the best board on the web for rational discussion.

I think it’s a bit pointless to entertain the stereotypes about users of these mobile platforms. Millions use either.
But you’re absolutely right, the areas you highlighted are certainly experience related and Apple will always want to own that element. Giving up on user experience would weaken their brand.

I don’t see that change anytime soon but I understand where you’re coming from. Android seems a more suitable fit for these needs.
 
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Personally I’d regret going to Samsung regardless of whether an iPhone is released with a battery killing 120Hz or a smaller notch. Neither of those items are demands for me personally but then I don’t buy Pro iPhones anyway because right think they are overpriced.
We shall see! You might be right, might be returning it but I want to see what Samsung life is all about after being a loyal yearly iPhone upgrader for the past 6 years.
 
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I have an 11 Pro, will probably upgrade if it has 120 Hz and a 6.1” screen. I’d like something slightly larger than the 11 Pro but used a XS Max beforehand and it was too big. 5G, improved Face ID and LiDAR, along with a new design, should make it interesting-ish.
 
I do agree to a certain extent that this update is boring, simply because of the fact that I don’t seem to find anything different to the previous version. I understand that it is quite difficult to update or develop new features on any software application, but offering an update just for namesake doesn’t sound right.

The other side of me insists on the fact that till now I have not been able to find any major difference in the updates made so for! This is just my personal opinion and happy to share my thoughts! Cheers!
 
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