Is it even worth it to buy Apple anymore?

[Crosscreek]

My opinion is no. Apples computer business started going down hill without Jobs oversight.

I built a hack a couple of months ago and have OS X, Windows 10 and Linux on separate drives.
This build works like a dream with OS X but I find myself questioning why I even bother with it any more because all the apps I use are cross platform.

I use Windows and Linux 90% of the time and my 2012 Mac Mini remains turned off.

It's not as pretty as an Apple computer but it sure performs well and was reasonable price to build.

Just my opinion tho and to each their own.

 

[shaunp]

I agree with oneMadrssn they still make the best and easiest to use overall computing experience you can buy.

However many people will want specific things from a computer huge specs, specific software or a niche or focused use case that requires specific specs or OS characteristics. Unfortunately for these people Apple may not be for you, of course Apple was NEVER for you, they have always used proprietary software and hardware, they have never made the most powerful machines performance wise and you have always been able to beat their specs with custom pc's.

That's what I don't understand about all these posts "are you still with Apple" or "have Apple lost it". Nothing has changed all these posts are the same as a decade ago, apples way is just that THEIR way always has been always will be.

As for buggy software just go over to the Microsoft site and read the threads on the surface book from when that came out with Windows ten. It makes an apple software/hardware release look like plain sailing.

Actually the thing has has changed is Apple don't update their hardware as often as they used to. Yes it's still the best platform to use, but the hardware is woefully out of date. I've had to buy a Windows laptop because Apple don't make anything that has enough RAM for my requirements - they are still at 16GB when the competition have lightweight models with 32GB and workstation-class laptops with 64GB. Some of us need more than 16GB.

They seem very happy to cater for the masses and appear to have no desire to make products for the high-end professional market, which I can appreciate given the rest of their product set, but they have also abandoned the enthusiast too. Considering where they started, you think they would still want to build kit for the enthusiast. As things stand they have ignored Skylake and with them recently bragging about the performance of the A10 CPU inside the iPhone 7 (it is fast enough to run mobile lightroom), I can see them using their own CPU's inside future Macs - one hardware platform for them to write code for, complete end-to-end control. It will be fast enough for the masses, but if you have heavier workloads or use any form of virtualisation the Mac would become a dead-end product.

As a professional I find their stance appalling. I buy into an ecosystem - the best end-to-end platform - from mobile phone, to laptop and desktop. Given their complete wall of silence, it's not a case of not knowing when they will update their professional products (rMBP, nMP), but if they will update it at all.

So I fully understand why people are asking whether Apple have lost it. they have had no significant updates to the rMBP since 2012 barring slight speed updates, no update to the nMP since it was launched in 2013 and the rest of the product line hasn't had an update in a year or more. At the same time the competition has brought out Skylake laptops ages ago, and workstations with the latest Xeon cpu's.

Overall I would not recommend their current hardware to anyone, and I would not buy any new Apple kit for my company either as I don't know whether they will discontinue the Mac as we know it and change hardware platform again, and when they do update it's always lighter, thinner and something useful has been removed or changed to be horrible - keyboard and trackpad on the new Macbook? Yuck! And their hardware fails more than any PC brand I've used too! Of the three Macbook Pro's I've had, 2 have had GPU issues. Never had this with Lenovo or Dell.

 

[mikef07]

OP, I feel your pain but take issue with some of your problems. My only qualifier is that I do not understand, for the life of me - metaphorically put - why users do not choose apps and an OS based on a platform. I've got myself and 63 employees for personal and business use, and have zero/none/nada/zip problems 100% of the time.

My perspective for services choices? Choose Google/Gmail - use their web interface, it's what they push. Choose MS Office 365/Outlook Cloud Services (Outlook.com) - MS wants to sell ads or services, so use Outlook as Exchange IMAPI is not fully supported by Apple's stock apps. Choose iCloud - use Apple's stock apps. Choose Yahoo - you're an idiot, given their history of SQL injection and account hacking that goes back over a decade that they just can't seem to stop (never mind the Zimbra fiasco...).

Google's "services" push you toward ads - duh! - and contain many data fields that don't sync to Apple's apps. Ditto for MS and Yahoo services. Even Apple's own iCloud services do not conform to "standards".

I used Yahoo until my contacts complained they were getting spammed, and they don't subscribe to any "standard" for IMAP or CalDAV. Ditto for Apple. Google's services for calendaring and contacts is a dynamic (read: continuously changing) hot mess and their IMAP service conforms to what Google decides that month (this, from a former Google Apps paying customer...).

I could rant some more, but I can only offer that, I have zero issues if I use a client produced by that same provider. I use Gmail for junk (IMHO that's all it's good for for my needs), Outlook for Office 365 and Outlook Cloud Services, Apple client apps for iCloud stuff, and Yahoo for nothing as it's pretty much a POS ad-optimsed platform that needed to die years ago.

I use Win 10 - it works well. I use OS X 10.12, it works well. Both OSes get out of my way. My only issue with Win 10 (Pro and Enterprise) is all of the data collected from my PCs and VMs that's transmitted to MS in encrypted packets - my attorney has asked them what they're collecting from us, but they just aren't getting back to us...

Not sure I can do what you are saying. If I use icloud email I have some of the same mail issues as I do with my yahoo email address. Calendar not scrolling is using Apple's calendar. iPhoto lagging again is using the native platform photo software. Safari for standard web browsing is again using the standard apple os/x supplied browser yet it still freezes since going to El Capitan. Using itunes for media content for an ipad is also again using the default program.

I am by no means a power user. I use Excel, Word, Powerpoint, Mail, Outlook, Itunes, Photos (iphoto), Calendar, Safari (well chrome now since safari is broken), handbrake, and acrobat.

I have no issues with Outlook, Chrome, Handbrake, Word, and Acrobat. I have minor issues (crashing) with Powerpoint and Excel. I have issues with Calendar, Mail, Safari, Photos, and Itunes. Notice all of those are default prorams for the Mac included with the iMac.


Even with my ipad if it is full and it needs to update a few apps and is connected to my iMac it will get an error that there is no enough space to update apps. I have to remove some video, then update, then out video back on. That is ridiculous.

 

[campyguy]

Not sure I can do what you are saying. If I use icloud email I have some of the same mail issues as I do with my yahoo email address. Calendar not scrolling is using Apple's calendar. iPhoto lagging again is using the native platform photo software. Safari for standard web browsing is again using the standard apple os/x supplied browser yet it still freezes since going to El Capitan. Using itunes for media content for an ipad is also again using the default program.

QED. Use Apple's Mail/Contacts/Calendar. Use Outlook or an EWS application for MS's products. Use a web interface for Yahoo and Gmail.

Use the company-recommended client for their online services - that's all I was getting at, aside for Yahoo's perpetual issues with being hacked. Consider using a web search to find out more about Yahoo being hacked, specifically their web email and contacts. Regarding Mac apps, I work only in a Standard User Account for specific tasks - and force that perspective on all of my employees, whether they like it or not. With more below, we have zero issues with "lag" whether we're working on Macs with SSDs or 5400RPM spinners - not a beachball in my house.

As to lagging, I know what causes it on my Macs and iOS devices and I have a workaround we use on my 5-dozen odd Macs (some of which have multiple profiles), but I'm not getting into that here. I'm long overdue for a PM conversation with Weaselboy about this last bit but I've been pretty busy (I'm moving an office today, my day off..., which has no relevance here). This bit could be the motivational thing to get connected with him, and I'd follow up here. Cheers.

 

[mikef07]

Im pretty much already doing what you said. It does not change the fact that the bugs are present. I have no interest in a web interface email. TO put it simply there are many issues that have nothing to do with what email address is used. There are many issues with itunes that are only used with Apple. There are issues with photos. It is what it is and I was wondering if it was different in a windows based platform. It isn't based on responses. I guess I just have to deal with it. Some of the things that i run across can't be fixed as they have nothing to do with the computer itself (i.e. the ipad problem i wrote above). I certainly thank you for the response, but it helps my issues none and that is OK.

 

[Icaras]

Yes, it's absolutely worth it to me. Always has been and still is to this day. Based on my personal needs, I will never go back to a PC. You'll have to drag me kicking and screaming.

Every beta has been extremely buggy for me and I have had my fair share of anger with it, but those were betas. I'm now on Sierra GM and everything seems to be humming along nicely. Same thing with iOS 9/10. First thee or so betas were almost unuseable at times, but I always seem to be pleased by it the time we get to GM. But like always, YMMV.

 

[iMcLovin]

Yes and no.

Yes
If you are not tech savvy and don't enjoy tweaking the OS and settings and knows your way around hardware, fans, overclocking etc... Then Mac is a simpler and a more straight forward experience.
If you don't need custom hardware for high demand tasks, then I would always recommend macs.
If you are willing/can pay a bit extra for the specs of your machine (I would say people who don't need demanding machines don't need to read spec sheets and compare bits and bytes over price - then it's all about user experience, as with phones)

No,
If you want to play graphic heavy games or want to have a large library of games. If you are dependent of certain software that only comes with Windows. If you like to control more of the machines behavior and internals. If you need a strong gpu. Do you need a pro machine or need to know when you can upgrade to a stronger machine then I would stray far away from Apple these days...they have completely neglected the pro market and "pro" in apples terms have become a marketing term more than a fact.

 

[maflynn]

If you want to play graphic heavy games or want to have a large library of games.

In a sense, that's always been the case. Apple has never really catered towards the gaming sector. As long as I've owned a Mac, gaming was substandard.

 

[StrawberryX]

For me personally, the golden age was Snow Leopard area.
What Apple is selling now, I needed a new Mac Pro and a new Macbook pro.
But these computers don't exist anymore.
They sold to the creative market, now they amaze 14 year olds with 5k ...

I e-shop on a Mac too, but once they used to be good in other area's too.


Another point for not buying a Mac. It's a box full of glue,
It's far from cheap, if It breakes out of warenty you can put It in the trash.
While a seven year old mac, just replace the broken harddrive. Perfect media station ...

 

[cynics]

Much like the iPhone, if specs are what matters most than a Mac may not be for you.

Also you are using software that's optimized for Windows than a Mac may not be your best option either.

FCPX on the new MacBook is a good example of well optimized software vs a brute force approach. Try to run Adobe Primere on a similarly spec'd Windows laptop.

Some of the PCs people build for "work" you'd think they worked for Pixar.

 

[iMcLovin]

Much like the iPhone, if specs are what matters most than a Mac may not be for you.

Also you are using software that's optimized for Windows than a Mac may not be your best option either.

FCPX on the new MacBook is a good example of well optimized software vs a brute force approach. Try to run Adobe Primere on a similarly spec'd Windows laptop.

Some of the PCs people build for "work" you'd think they worked for Pixar.

Specs matters to me on a work machine. For a phone I only care about user experience... so then good specs or optimized software is all the same as long as I have a snappy phone with the features I like.
On a work machine there's certain thing you do which relies on maximum use of the hardware. Like 3D rendering were every core on your machine runs on 100%. I don't work at Pixar but I do a lot of similar stuff, so I need to evaluate specs before I buy a machine. When I had the 5k iMac I had to use external render farm when rendering unless I wanted to wait for a long time while rendering and the machine being completely useless to me until the rendering was finished. This cost money and time. Rendering a 2 minute 3D film through a renderfarm is also very expensive. ...but the fact that people buy wrong and too powerful hardware for their use case is prominent to Macs as well. I suspect about 50% of the people buying a Mac Pro use Adobe software all the time... and they would save money and get a better performing machine buying the iMac with i7. The Mac Pro honestly is made for fcpx and almost nothing else. It has bad gpus for gaming. 3D software don't use sli and prefers a single great gpu. None of the Adobe software utilize multiple cores well at all. So all in all, the nMP is not useful for most of the people buying it. Sadly then all Apple has to offer professionals with a wider need is a laptop soldered to a monitor as the best option. Positively though the iMac is good enough for a lot of people who don't really know how to use all the computer power they buy. The problem in general is that most people don't know which parts of the machine is being used to the softwares they are using but just think that the more expensive the machine is the better.

 

[richinaus]

Specs matters to me on a work machine. For a phone I only care about user experience... so then good specs or optimized software doesn't matter as long as I have a snappy phone with the features I like.
On a work machine there's certain thing you do which relies on maximum use of the hardware. Like 3D rendering were every core on your machine runs on 100%. I don't work at Pixar but I do a lot of similar stuff, so I need to evaluate specs before I buy a machine. When I had the 5k iMac I had to use external render farm when rendering unless I wanted to wait for a long time while rendering and the machine being completely useless to me until the rendering was finished. This cost money and time. Rendering a 2 minute 3D film through a renderfarm is also very expensive. ...but the fact that people buy wrong and too powerful hardware for their use case is prominent to Macs as well. I suspect about 50% of the people buying a Mac Pro use Adobe hardware all the time... and they would save money and get a better performing machine buying the iMac with i7. The Mac Pro honestly is made for fcpx and almost nothing else. It has bad gpus for gaming. 3D software don't use sli and prefers a single great gpu. None of the Adobe software utilize multiple cores well at all. So all in all, the nMP is not useful for most of the people buying it. Sadly then all Apple has to offer professionals with a wider need is a laptop soldered to a monitor as the best option. Positively though the iMac is good enough for a lot of people who don't really know how to use all the computer power they buy. The problem in general is that most people don't know which parts of the machine is being used to the softwares they are using but just think that the more expensive the machine is the better.

and with any updates to the imac this October the CPU is not likely to get a refresh..... I am in a similar game to you except I only need to render on occasion only and just a single frame, not movies so an iMac is a reasonable solution. Apple don't really make the machine you need and are not likely to unfortunately...... unless you buy yourself a MacBook Pro to work on whilst rendering.

 

[cynics]

Specs matters to me on a work machine. For a phone I only care about user experience... so then good specs or optimized software is all the same as long as I have a snappy phone with the features I like.
On a work machine there's certain thing you do which relies on maximum use of the hardware. Like 3D rendering were every core on your machine runs on 100%. I don't work at Pixar but I do a lot of similar stuff, so I need to evaluate specs before I buy a machine. When I had the 5k iMac I had to use external render farm when rendering unless I wanted to wait for a long time while rendering and the machine being completely useless to me until the rendering was finished. This cost money and time. Rendering a 2 minute 3D film through a renderfarm is also very expensive. ...but the fact that people buy wrong and too powerful hardware for their use case is prominent to Macs as well. I suspect about 50% of the people buying a Mac Pro use Adobe software all the time... and they would save money and get a better performing machine buying the iMac with i7. The Mac Pro honestly is made for fcpx and almost nothing else. It has bad gpus for gaming. 3D software don't use sli and prefers a single great gpu. None of the Adobe software utilize multiple cores well at all. So all in all, the nMP is not useful for most of the people buying it. Sadly then all Apple has to offer professionals with a wider need is a laptop soldered to a monitor as the best option. Positively though the iMac is good enough for a lot of people who don't really know how to use all the computer power they buy. The problem in general is that most people don't know which parts of the machine is being used to the softwares they are using but just think that the more expensive the machine is the better.

The same could be said about a smartphone. For years I needed a smartphone with removable storage for work. Mostly to immediately upload images from a specific thermal imaging camera.

The iPhone doesn't have that obviously but I wouldn't refer to the much more expensive iPhone as a joke or a toy because it's incapable of performing the task a less expensive device could.

It just wasn't the right tool for the job, much like a Mac isn't the right tool for your job.

We are comparing Apple vs the world here. It shouldn't be a surprise they can't please 100% of people. Especially an all-in-one vs custom built desktops no less....

The Mac Pro needs an update severely no denying that btw. IMO it's crap and no one should buy one, at least not at full retail.

 

[iMcLovin]

The same could be said about a smartphone. For years I needed a smartphone with removable storage for work. Mostly to immediately upload images from a specific thermal imaging camera.

The iPhone doesn't have that obviously but I wouldn't refer to the much more expensive iPhone as a joke or a toy because it's incapable of performing the task a less expensive device could.

It just wasn't the right tool for the job, much like a Mac isn't the right tool for your job.

We are comparing Apple vs the world here. It shouldn't be a surprise they can't please 100% of people. Especially an all-in-one vs custom built desktops no less....

The Mac Pro needs an update severely no denying that btw. IMO it's crap and no one should buy one, at least not at full retail.

Ofc for some people can do work on an iphone. But not computer "power" work. But text doc, calling, photos and whatnot. Im not denying that. But I doubt people buy new phones on a regular basis because the previous one is holding them back at doing work. At least thats not my case, I buy new phones every year and new ipads just from being interested in gadgets and I like new stuff. So for me that is the toy factor - but when I buy a new machine, its not the shiny cover or the fun stuff, but how much data it can push. I mean even one of the biggest updates to iOS this year is stickers and animations to imessage and the CPU was the last thing mentioned in the keynote.

 

[cynics]

Ofc for some people can do work on an iphone. But not computer "power" work. But text doc, calling, photos and whatnot. Im not denying that. But I doubt people buy new phones on a regular basis because the previous one is holding them back at doing work. At least thats not my case, I buy new phones every year and new ipads just from being interested in gadgets and I like new stuff. So for me that is the toy factor - but when I buy a new machine, its not the shiny cover or the fun stuff, but how much data it can push. I mean even one of the biggest updates to iOS this year is stickers and animations to imessage and the CPU was the last thing mentioned in the keynote.

My point is the exact opposite applied to me since I essentially work off my phone in the field (away from any office setting).

I just didn't expect Apple to cater the iPhone to my needs. I just bought the appropriate tools for the job ignoring what didn't work for me entirely.

I don't know maybe you don't get my point. For example, are you on a Samsung/Asus/etc forum in their all-in-one computer section pointing out how you can't do the obvious things on them like 3D rendering?

 

[iMcLovin]

My point is the exact opposite applied to me since I essentially work off my phone in the field (away from any office setting).

I just didn't expect Apple to cater the iPhone to my needs. I just bought the appropriate tools for the job ignoring what didn't work for me entirely.

I don't know maybe you don't get my point. For example, are you on a Samsung/Asus/etc forum in their all-in-one computer section pointing out how you can't do the obvious things on them like 3D rendering?

IWhat I said about phones applied to me but I understand they can be used as more than phones and limited work. It's useful to me too, but it's also a fashion device and a toy and a general consumer device.

But what you said about all in ones I did not understand...the iMac as an all in one surely is capable of 3D rendering... . If you get the most powerful iMac it's pretty powerful. And Apple market it as a workhorse too. But today with new processors and less hot gpus there's no reason for Apple not to offer broadwell E 6 and 8 core iMacs and GeForce 1080m. It's possible, even in the current formfactor I would think. And especially for what the iMacs are and because the Mac Pro is currently "dead" I don't see why they should not give you that option. The problem is that the current maxed out iMac is the most powerful machine Apple have to offer in their entire product pipeline today and it's just on the verge between pro and average user.
So I don't think it's wrong of me to express my frustration over this. It is the reason why I made the switch back to PC for my work machine... and if you read the Mac pro forum, it feels like an exodus these days. Something Apple could easily have avoided, if they had put just a fraction of the focus they have on phones and tablets onto macs.

 

[maflynn]

It just wasn't the right tool for the job, much like a Mac isn't the right tool for your job.

That's really the bottom line, Apple's iMac with its current price point, and configuration will not meet everyone's needs, or desires. Find the tool that does best fit that need.

I think a related but side issue, is how OS X meets those needs, since the Mac is just one part of the equation. Some folks may want the iMac hardware, but their needs are Windows based. The question then comes down to buying the expensive iMac just to run windows. For some that's worth it, for others, not so much

 

[TallManNY]

Go buy a PC if you want to see something that doesn't work. My IT department has put in over three hours trying to get my PC to connect to the office printer this week. So far they've been unsuccessful.

And I had to turn off my trackpad pointer because it was spazzing out and moving the mouse randomly. Totally just a hardware failure. Piece of junk. Costs as much as a top MacBook Air but with a much worse quality screen.

 

[maflynn]

Go buy a PC if you want to see something that doesn't work.

My PCs have been working for years, seamless and problem free, I'm rocking on a SurfaceBook right now

My IT department has put in over three hours trying to get my PC to connect to the office printer this week.

Then may I suggest you need a new IT department, I also work in IT, and have not had any problems hooking up a printer. I will say its often easier with Windows then OS X, especially for older printers. Printer manufacturers typically don't update OS X drivers and rely on Apple to provide the support.

 

[grahamperrin]

… may I suggest you need a new IT department, …

There is that suggestion but it will not lead to technical information from someone who spent hours, last week, trying to get Windows to work with a printer …

… My IT department has put in over three hours trying to get my PC to connect to the office printer this week. So far they've been unsuccessful. …

… @TallManNY I'm sure I don't know who you are, but welcome to the club

 

[TallManNY]

My PCs have been working for years, seamless and problem free, I'm rocking on a SurfaceBook right now

Then may I suggest you need a new IT department, I also work in IT, and have not had any problems hooking up a printer. I will say its often easier with Windows then OS X, especially for older printers. Printer manufacturers typically don't update OS X drivers and rely on Apple to provide the support.

Funny thing is we tried an older individual printer for me as well (instead of the large workstation communal printer) as I have space in my office to set one up. They couldn't set it up because drivers for Windows 10 are not supported for the older printer. In their defense it is a communal printer pool that is causing the issue. But I will flip my lid if they can't solve it next week.

 

[Adam Warlock]

It's sad to read many of the comments here and in other threads. Sincere Apple fans leaving the Mac platform in droves because of neglect. Hopefully Apple will turn the tide next month with some decent--if not great--products. Personally I'm looking forward to a headless Mac, preferably a relatively powerful Mini, but I suspect Apple will drop it in favour of the iMac. We'll see.

 

[-BigMac-]

It just works. That used to be the reality for me when I used my iMac and have had an iMac (2 different ones for years). Now the QC of their OS is absolutely horrible. From bugs like not being able to scroll in Calendar (have to reboot to get it to work again) to the computer constantly asking for the yahoo password (for mail) even though it is correct, supposed to be autosaved, and has not changed. Even itunes is so dated and flawed to manage media on the ipad. I used to love photos and/or iphoto but now it is such a disaster and is constantly lagging.

I will need to upgrade soon but am not sure if I should move away from Apple. My fear is that with a new OS coming out more and more bugs can be expected. Funny they release a new OS without fixing the old one.

Definitely sounds like you've made your mind up.
Seems very negative and a limited view on what Apple has been delivering in recent times.
I agree to an extent with the things you are saying, but I believe you will get over Windows quite fast, and as such revert back to Apple in the coming future.

 

[grahamperrin]

@TallManNY if you have an account on Stack Exchange, maybe post an outline of the problem – including the printer make and model – to Super User then leave the link at my profile page, or yours; or start a (private) conversation and I'll lend a hand. My manager has real expertise on the Windows side of things, some of which has rubbed off on me but it doesn't fit with the iMac area, where we are.

… I believe you will get over Windows quite fast, and as such revert back to Apple …

I can't speak for the opening poster, but I switched away from OS X and I have no regrets. My switch was to an open source solution; it's not a breeze but it's liberating. YMMV.

 

[Fishrrman]

graham wrote above:
"My switch was to an open source solution; it's not a breeze but it's liberating."

May I ask to which open source solution you migrated?