Is it even worth it to buy Apple anymore?

[definitive]

I struggled with my decision to buy an iMac, because it was so expensive, but at the end of the day, I felt, I was getting value for my money. For me, a 5k 27" display plus a desktop (Dell) would run me close to 3k, because of the high cost of the 5k display. Did I need a 5k display, no but comparing apples to apples, I got a fantastic computer for 2k.

With that said, I opted for a SurfaceBook for my laptop, because I got more bang for my buck, and its been great. I've been using it extensively this week as I'm away on a business trip

Just wait until some major component breaks, and the system is out of warranty. That repair (combined with the original price of the system) is going to cost you more than the Dell and the separate 5k screen combined.

I put together a miniITX system with a 4k 27" screen on PCPartPicker, and it costs $1600 less than an equally equipped iMac. Sure a 5k screen might add more to the total cost, but even then the custom built would be less, and you'd have the ability to swap any part out for much less than what Apple charges.

 

[cynics]

Just wait until some major component breaks, and the system is out of warranty. That repair (combined with the original price of the system) is going to cost you more than the Dell and the separate 5k screen combined.

I put together a miniITX system with a 4k 27" screen on PCPartPicker, and it costs $1600 less than an equally equipped iMac. Sure a 5k screen might add more to the total cost, but even then the custom built would be less, and you'd have the ability to swap any part out for much less than what Apple charges.

Conjecture. Are we to also assume the Dell didn't break 15 times over the course of the iMac breaking once?

 

[maflynn]

Just wait until some major component breaks, and the system is out of warranty.

I have Apple Care and so I have 3 years on my iMac, and the track record for iMacs has been extremely positive. I purchased the iMac in part because I expect it to last several years. While I cannot predict the future, people buy Apple for the peace of mind that they're getting a high quality product.

As already mentioned, I'd be spending a lot to repair the Dell, either the display and/or the tower unit. You can do the what if game until the cows come home, but the fact remains, that you select what works best and gives you the best value for your money - at least that's what I do.

 

[mikef07]

Well I did wipe my iMac clean and install Sierra (Prior I had upgraded to El Capitan without wiping clean) and so far so good. No Calendar issues. No Safari issues (I can use it again although I have really grown to like Chrome now). No mail password issues. Photos is still a little laggy but probably because of over 10,000 photos. Itunes has a few things I hate now (home videos has artwork column that you cannot delete or get rid of). So far so good and everything seems smoother and to be operating better.

 

[definitive]

Conjecture. Are we to also assume the Dell didn't break 15 times over the course of the iMac breaking once?

That didn't make much of a point, because both Apple and Dell use third party hardware which is compatible with Intel CPU's, meaning one can break as much as the other. The difference is that Because Dell (in most cases) isn't an all-in-one, its hardware is easier and cheaper to replace, so it has a longer lifespan than the iMac once their warranty is up.

I have Apple Care and so I have 3 years on my iMac, and the track record for iMacs has been extremely positive. I purchased the iMac in part because I expect it to last several years. While I cannot predict the future, people buy Apple for the peace of mind that they're getting a high quality product.

As already mentioned, I'd be spending a lot to repair the Dell, either the display and/or the tower unit. You can do the what if game until the cows come home, but the fact remains, that you select what works best and gives you the best value for your money - at least that's what I do.

After those three years are up, your system is not gonna get covered by Apple, unless it's some widespread defect which Apple agrees to fix for free. Not everyone buys a $2k+ system every 2-3 years.

 

[Les Kern]

I think the answer is rather simple. Yes, if you like the Apple universe. No if you don't. I have quite a few of each and been a Mac user since 1985, and up until the release of Windows 10 I would never have considered it. But now that's all changed. I think 10 is an incredible OS. If "something happened" I could make the change without too much issue. My world is synced with Apple products, so changing is not in the cards for now.

 

[maflynn]

After those three years are up, your system is not gonna get covered by Apple, unless it's some widespread defect which Apple agrees to fix for free. Not everyone buys a $2k+ system every 2-3 years.

Same thing can be said about the Dell. I'm not looking to buy a Mac in 2 to 3 years, I'm planning on this lasting a lot longer and given that my MBP (which technically has an all in one design) has been going strong since 2012, I'm not worried.

I'm very happy with my purchase, so while you may not think so, there's nothing that you can say that would dissuade me.

 

[Ursadorable]

I still feel it's worth buying a Mac, because as our company's head of IT, I have to support Windows all day at work. It's nice to come home and have a computer that just works.

That said, I have tried in the past to make a go of a hackintosh.. but it always turned out poorly. Yeah, the hardware isn't as competitive as roll your own PC.. but not having to use Windows or Linux, it's a value add that I can't ignore. I just wish Apple didn't have a mindset of smaller and thinner forcing scrimping on certain aspects (like a decent video card). But until Mac OS becomes worse than Windows, which the way Microsoft is going is going to be impossible, I'll stick with a Mac. And Linux just isn't an alternative for desktop use, though I never hesitate to use it in a server capacity.
[doublepost=1474862468][/doublepost]

And I read Linus is not happy about the state of Linux on the desktop.

You piqued my interest with this comment. While I'm not happy about the state of Linux on the desktop either, I'm curious what Linus' issues are with it, and if they mirror mine.

 

[Taz Mangus]

That didn't make much of a point, because both Apple and Dell use third party hardware which is compatible with Intel CPU's, meaning one can break as much as the other. The difference is that Because Dell (in most cases) isn't an all-in-one, its hardware is easier and cheaper to replace, so it has a longer lifespan than the iMac once their warranty is up.



After those three years are up, your system is not gonna get covered by Apple, unless it's some widespread defect which Apple agrees to fix for free. Not everyone buys a $2k+ system every 2-3 years.

Some people like the all-in-one because it takes up a lot less space and are willing to pay extra for what Apple offers. Personally, the Window PC computers are ugly. I have not seen one, Windows PC, yet that can rival the looks of an iMac. And yes, a lot of people value aesthetics and will pay extra for that as well.

My 2011 iMac has lasted me coming up on 6 years. Pretty good run. Going to replace it with a 2016 iMac in October. Another 5+ years out of my next iMac before I purchase the next iMac.

My 2009 17" MacBook Pro was replaced with a 2015 13" Retina MacBook Pro. I would say I have had good runs from my Mac computers. And when I sold that 2009 17" MacBook Pro I got $600 for it. Mac computers have pretty good resale value on the used market.

So you are correct not everyone buys a $2k+ system every 2-3 years. My Mac computer systems tend to last a lot longer then 2-3 years before I decide to spend another $2k+.

In all the time that I have owned Macs which is since 2001, Apple has had really great customer service. Even out of warranty Apple has been great with service on any of my Mac computers. That is another reason why I like Apple, its customer service and it keeps me coming back to purchase more gear from them.

And Speaking about customer service. My daughter dropped her iPad Pro and cracked the screen glass. I took the iPad Pro to the Apple Store expecting to pay $49 to have it replaced as I have AppleCare+ on it. The person handed me another iPad Pro, no charge. Even made sure the new iPad was up-to-date with iOS 10.0.2 for me. It was a really nice surprise.

I know, all of that must be hard to fathom. You stick with Dell and I will stick with Apple.

 

[maflynn]

Some people like the all-in-one because it takes up a lot less space and are willing to pay extra for what Apple offers

The AIO design is nice, I've had an iMac before, so its not a brand new thing for me.

Also as I mentioned, the cost of the Dell 5k + CPU was well beyond that of the iMac. From a financial sense, spending 2k instead of 3k, was a no brainer and given good reputation, I expect this mac to last well beyond the 3 years of the extended warranty.
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I put together a miniITX system with a 4k 27" screen on PCPartPicker, and it costs $1600 less than an equally equipped iMac. Sure a 5k screen might add more to the total cost, but even then the custom built would be less, and you'd have the ability to swap any part out for much less than what Apple charges.

I've built computers before, and didn't want to go down that path this time. The iMac checked off more boxes on my list of wants and needs then building did, or the Dell. I spent less money [then the dell], got a beautifully designed machine, that is fast and has everything I want. I'm happy with it, and so that's all that counts.

 

[Taz Mangus]

The AIO design is nice, I've had an iMac before, so its not a brand new thing for me.

Also as I mentioned, the cost of the Dell 5k + CPU was well beyond that of the iMac. From a financial sense, spending 2k instead of 3k, was a no brainer and given good reputation, I expect this mac to last well beyond the 3 years of the extended warranty.

If you paid with a credit card like American Express than the warranty goes to 4 years. I have owned iMacs since the 2002 17" Daisy. That was a cool computer to own. Great computers.

 

[maflynn]

If you paid with a credit card like American Express than the warranty goes to 4 years. I have owned iMacs since the 2002 17" Daisy. That was a cool computer to own. Great computers.

I had the Bondi Blue iMac, and that was also a great innovative computer. Those were the fun days of computing

 

[roadkill401]

Same thing can be said about the Dell. I'm not looking to buy a Mac in 2 to 3 years, I'm planning on this lasting a lot longer and given that my MBP (which technically has an all in one design) has been going strong since 2012, I'm not worried.

I'm very happy with my purchase, so while you may not think so, there's nothing that you can say that would dissuade me.

Every time I read that logic I cringe. "I have a MBP built in 2012" says nothing about how they are built now. It is like saying the weather was very mild in winter of 2012 and it didn't snow on Chirstmas, so I expect the same this year.

The sad part is that build quality seems to have slowly been slipping and getting far worse as the years go on. The screens on the 2012 iMac's were great and had minimal issues. The screens on this generation of iMac are horrible and seem to have an excessively high failure rate in screen image retention. Apple simply decided to set the bar so low on what they consider acceptable that it's very hard to get them to fix or replace the defect. Compare that to the vast majority of 4k or 5k external montors that do not suffer from the effect. You might accept the problem and happily go on your day with a screen that doesn't work right. Does that make the build of your iMac up to the same standards as what was made in 2012?

The question is not do you like Apple. it was has the value and build quality of Apple gone down enough to justify paying the extra to buy it?

 

[Adam Warlock]

The level of frustration with Apple regarding Macs is so high it's almost tangible. They better have something "special" and "magical" for us next month. IMO the Mac and its fans are the bedrock on which the company rests, not iPhones.

 

[krause734]

Apple may be slipping a bit with Steve gone but go try a Windows machine and you'll probably come running back.

 

[cynics]

That didn't make much of a point, because both Apple and Dell use third party hardware which is compatible with Intel CPU's, meaning one can break as much as the other. The difference is that Because Dell (in most cases) isn't an all-in-one, its hardware is easier and cheaper to replace, so it has a longer lifespan than the iMac once their warranty is up.

I'm not to sure with the current state of Dell but like Apple with their logic boards the non standard (made for Dell) motherboards (used to be Intel) were their week point for a long time. And they were a PITA if they were non standard to be used with their case, turning the entire system into a literal brick.

I'll agree with you that building a PC is a better bet for many people but I would avoid many manufacturers such as Dell. For me there are 2 options, buy a Mac or build my own PC.

Hell, in most cases a non functioning out of warranty 5k iMac will sell for more for parts than a equally spec/age functioning Dell desktop.

I have heard recently Dell has gotten a lot better but I have no experience with current Dell computers. I did have a Dimension 8100 that treated me very well for a LONG time but Dell's reliability dropped off after that.

 

[Ethosik]

I find Windows 10 a lot more buggy than I have ever experience with mac OS. I love Windows 10. But man, some of the issues I have across many MANY computers is just ridiculous. I think that Windows 7 was the last amazing Windows release.

As for the hardware, people really need to stop acting like the new processors are 300% performance improvements. My 2010 Mac Pro still encodes videos faster than my custom built $2,000 PC in 2015.

Adobe recently released a massive buggy update that caused me to switch to Final Cut Pro X full time. I (and many others) have reported the issue months ago. No fix yet. Some people experienced this back in 2015 too! Do a google search for "Audio repetition issue in Adobe Premiere or After Effects". It basically repeats the last 1-1.5 seconds of the video at the end. Why? When audio is done, it is done. It should not repeat.

Is Apple software/hardware perfect? No. Neither is Windows and Dell/Lenovo/HP/... We have gotten to the point where newer processors is not really that important. Also, needing 32GB+ of RAM on a laptop is a niche market IMO. If you need that, there are Dell mobile workstations available.

I have a 2013 rMBP with 16GB of RAM. I have a 2010 Mac Pro and a 2015 custom built PC both with 32GB of RAM. I use my laptop for "light work" and my desktops for the heavy work.

 

[maflynn]

I find Windows 10 a lot more buggy than I have ever experience with mac OS.

Wow, I've had zero problems with Win10, and in fact my experience has been the polar opposite.

What sort of issues have you run in with.

By the way, I'm running Windows 10 on my iMac, SP3, and SurfaceBook

 

[grahamperrin]

… My 2010 Mac Pro still encodes videos faster than my custom built $2,000 PC in 2015. …

… I would avoid many manufacturers such as Dell. …

Understood, but a promo for this cheap old item (now out of stock) recently appeared in my Inbox and caught my eye:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160927221655/http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152226217006 17", 4 GB memory, Windows 10, £64.99. Yeah that's, old but glancing at Windows 10 Specifications & System Requirements | Microsoft I guess that the 4 GB would be good enough for the included OpenOffice and lightweight tasks.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182294116749 £41.99 for a comparably old iMac, cheaper but "Many lines are present on the LCD".

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291837973515 £129.99 another comparably old iMac. Twice as expensive as the Dell and I'd expect an iMac of that age to fail sooner.

… go try a Windows machine and you'll probably come running back. …

 

[Gasu E.]

In my multibillion dollar corporation, IT started supporting Macs a few years ago. It's second class support for sure, but many people opt for the Mac in spite of the less than seamless integration with company business systems. What's interesting is that we hired an executive from Microsoft; and when he expanded his team, he hired a large number of ex-MS employees. And every single one opted to use a Mac.

Personally, I feel business is business, and I choose to use a PC at work, even though I am 100% invested in Macs at home. The PC setup works better with the purpose built corporate systems I rely on. However, for general desktop work, seamless portability, etc. the PC is far less stable than the Macs, less reliable in network connectivity, more difficult to configure, etc. No problems I experience on my home Macs come close to what I see on the PC at work. Maybe not a fair comparison, but that's what I see.

 

[nambuccaheadsau]

It is like the world going round and round and round ..........

Ford v GM v Chrysler v VW v Toyota etc etc etc.

Folks are free to buy what they want. If you enjoy a PC get one, if you don't, get a Mac. As the meerkat says 'Simples'!

 

[throAU]

Macs?

Niche now.

Most stuff is moving to web and you can build/buy much cheaper web servers to do the heavy work and just interact with them via an ipad.

Yes, there are workloads where a mac makes sense, but average joe can get by with a tablet these days.


The ipad however is best in class - by a LONG way, and the integration between iPhone, iPad and watch (and mac if you have one as well) is second to none.

 

[rafark]

I've always wanted a Mac and last finally bought an iMac. Even though it was a used Mac, Everything has been flawless since then. No bugs, no freezes, no crashes, no lags; everything is where it should be and everything does what it should do. The design and materials are fantastic , it's a pleasure to look at and it makes my room look very nice.

I never thought computers could be this good. I can say I'm in love, I'm not touching a windows thing again.

 

[Ewen Cameron]

I was and still am very upset that Apple killed off the towers (last proper tower being the Mac Pro 5.1). It really felt like Apple had no idea what their hard core user base wanted.... forget the ultra flashy thin stuff, just give me a reliable, upgradable box which can fit proper sized cards at a price under £2200.

The new Mac Pro will probably be another lemon and use ridiculous multi core cpu's. I just want the equivalent of a mid range iMac with easy expandability that comes in a tower case, that's what Apple offered us for years... bring that back you idiots.

 

[0186279]

I just want the equivalent of a mid range iMac with easy expandability that comes in a tower case, that's what Apple offered us for years... bring that back you idiots.

Agreed, this is all I want as well. My Macbook Pro has lasted me 7 years due to being able to upgrade the HDD, RAM and easily replace the battery myself. It's finally time for a new computer but wow did I get a good 7 years out of this thing. I could even keep it going if I really needed to and will certainly still find good use for it after upgrading.

If they weren't so unreliable I would certainly go the hackintosh route. It sounds like a lot of fun, but some stuff is just too sensitive to risk it giving out on you if it's your main computer.