iPad Pro Is it just me that prefers macOS? I cannot justify owning an iPad Pro

[537635]

I use Keynote a lot and do mostly pretty complex slides. iOS version is great for presenting and OK for minor edits. For general stuff it's useless.

Router analogy is pointless. iPads are marketed as "Pro", "content creation" and even "PC replacements".

I believe you are wrong about complex presentations. Check out Keynote. I would love to have an advanced time line in Keynote like those in 3D apps but that is not strictly necessary. Custom made shape library is also very useful.

Scientific writing is a software problem (target audience is too small so microsoft has not embedded a good reference manager). If you add that criteria, you can just as well add engineering software etc which also is very limited on MacOS.

Ability to create software is a funny criteria. I believes the software in the router, car, oven etc cannot be created in the router, car or oven.

Who said that the iPad was a replacement for software development, engineering and other very specialised application areas?

 

[bluecoast]

Totally agree with the OP. The iPad Pro really is the future of mainstream computing but Apple has hobbled it but not being able to (yet) give iOS the features that you mention - perhaps this will change at wwdc.

And without trackpad support it won’t ever be as good as the mac for productivity - anyone who doubts me try and work on a spreadsheet and see which device is faster.

For those reasons I haven’t even got a regular iPad - between my Mac and iPhone it’s hard to justify getting the base level iPad even.

 

[throAU]

A Mac not being good at drawing is obvious but not being good at editing a photo? I have done it for years and it is quite good at it.

Depends on what you’re doing. If it is say, re-touching stuff then the pencil is easier and more precise than a mouse, for what i do.

Not saying you can’t do it on a mac or pc. But the pencil is nicer. For me.
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The Mac is also great in note taking. Maybe not handwritten notes, but notes I can use and share with others much more easily than with an iPad. I am not very fond of handwritten notes

My “notes” are often a bunch of diagrams and scribbles, and its easier / less distracting to write them down rather than type them in a meeting.

Basically the ipad is my replacement for paper (paper that i can search and is synchronised everywhere so i can’t lose it), plus being a laptop replacement in a lot of other circumstances.

For portable use, it has mostly replaced my macbook pro as a remote desktop, ssh, web app or admin website device.

Anything more complicated when i am at a desk i generally do at a desktop, which is FAR more powerful and better at those sorts of things than my Macbook Pro. FOR ME, the laptop is stuck in the middle ground. I do still use it, but nowhere near as much as i used to.

Again, FOR ME, the Macbook has become the edge-case device that i find difficult to justify upgrading now, not the iPad Pro. For what i need from a portable device, the ipad has better battery life, is silent, is more portable, and doubles as a traditional pen and paper replacement.

I’m seriously considering replacing the iPad Pro AND the macbook with a 12 inch ipad pro, the tipping point will be the feature set of iOS 13.

 

[smirking]

The iPad has amazing hardware, it really does. As a tablet is amazing, but it just doesn't seem to fit into my lifestyle.

Something besides technological and form factor conflicts stopped me in my tracks. It was ergnomics. Tablet use is brutal for some of us who are prone to hand or neck pain. I used to be eager to experiment with tablet workflows with the expectation that one day I'd probably leave behind my laptop the same way I left behind my desktop. Hand pain completely stopped me though.

Tablets would have to become feather light before I could see it becoming a viable substitute for laptops when it comes to all day use. There are just only so many ways that you can limit the orthopedic stress on the user having to maniputlate a slate of metal and glass in unnatural postures. The only way I could get extended use out of my iPad was with an external keyboard so I could use it like a laptop (which defeated the purpose of my experiments).

 

[throAU]

Who said that the iPad was a replacement for software development, engineering and other very specialised application areas?

Exactly. It is a complementary device, it isn’t intended to be the be all and end all of computing. Though for some users (like my girlfriend) it may be good enough.

For me, the macbook pro is not good enough for the “heavy lifting” type workload i do, and the ipad is better at a lot of the portable usage stuff.

Re: tablet use vs. fatigue. I do use mine a lot at a desk or otherwise with keyboard attached.

For me it is an ultra-lightweight notebook computer that i can also draw on and use via touch if i don’t have a deskt available.

I think that the better solution to the fatigue problem of carrying around a tablet is AR - the device stays in your bag or whatever and you interact with it via gestures, voice and the like that are picked up by AR head gear (like a set of glasses). But we aren’t there yet.

 

[jjhoekstra]

Same here and I wouldn't even consider getting rid of either.

Same here. Well, I have a MBP and a iPad pro and use them both daily. I also have an MB and even that I use quit regularly. With iCloud you can just continue working on whatever device you presently have.

 

[iPadified]

I use Keynote a lot and do mostly pretty complex slides. iOS version is great for presenting and OK for minor edits. For general stuff it's useless.

Router analogy is pointless. iPads are marketed as "Pro", "content creation" and even "PC replacements".

I prefer the iOS version of keynote as I can use the pencil to guide animations. I have never learned to draw using a track pad/mouse.

Hardly pointless. Not all devices are designed to develop software on.

Mac and MacOS is actually very poor "PC replacements" as well and hence a toy (according to the logic here) as there are lots of engineering/scientific/3D modelling software that do not exist on MacOS. Furthermore, support for third party devices is poor in MacOS compared to windows.

I uses PC (windows XP, 7, 2000, Mac (MP, MPB), iPad, iPhone, and sometimes supercomputers in my work. Which ones are "pro"? In my opinion all of them as they all serve different functions in my work.

 

[Shirasaki]

and sometimes supercomputers in my work.

Wonder what kind of work you are going that requires access or super computers. Maybe some sort of massive virtualisation?

 

[petvas]

It doesn't really matter if you prefer Keynote on iOS. It's a fact that all productivity software that is available on both iOS and macOS is much better on macOS. The iPad Pro is not only marketed as "pro", but it is priced accordingly, so it must be judged according to its price too. I expect from a device that costs 1500€ (counting the keyboard also), to be able to accomplish all common computing tasks. The iPad unfortunately fails in many of these tasks. This is a fact, not an opinion. Some people do care about that, others don't.
Windows is the standard OS for businesses all over the world. The Mac is not being seen by businesses as Windows, mostly because of its price. You mostly see Macs in Enteprises only used by people high in the hierarchy. Even if a specific software is not available on the Mac, remember that it can use virtualisation to run Windows too. This is something that the iPad also cannot do.

 

[secretk]

Exactly. It is a complementary device, it isn’t intended to be the be all and end all of computing. Though for some users (like my girlfriend) it may be good enough.

Agree that iPad is a complementary device. Maybe for some people iPad Pro is too expensive to be only complementary device .

Re: tablet use vs. fatigue. I do use mine a lot at a desk or otherwise with keyboard attached.

Good point though I personally have ergonomics issues with iPad even in this case. The display is smaller. As a result there is bigger distance (vertically speaking) between my head and the iPad. As a result I get neck pain just by looking at the display for longer periods of time. They keyboard is also a bit smaller and I find it more uncomfortable to type. I also hate the fact that I need to raise my hand (from the keyboard) to the screen to navigate through the software.

Basically for such type of work it is better for me to use regular laptop as it offers me better ergonomics and more comfort.

For me it is an ultra-lightweight notebook computer that i can also draw on and use via touch if i don’t have a deskt available.

Yes the pencil support for me is the standout feature here.

 

[subjonas]

I think that the better solution to the fatigue problem of carrying around a tablet is AR - the device stays in your bag or whatever and you interact with it via gestures, voice and the like that are picked up by AR head gear (like a set of glasses). But we aren’t there yet.

I think AR is the potential solution to a lot of (tech) problems. If companies can get AR glasses right, then monitors will eventually become niche or obsolete, and phones, tablets, and laptops will be forever changed.

 

[jerryk]

I have a MacBook Pro 15 and an iPad Pro 11. I think they do intersect somewhat, but are also unique.

The MBP is running a Unix variant, so has all of the command line features I want. Also, it has a mouse interface. The downside it is big and bulky so traveling with it is a pain.

The iPad Pro is great to travel with, especially with the folio keyboard. If the rumored mouse support appears in IOS 13 it will be near perfect. But iPad pro has limitations in terms of packages, command line support, etc. And I cannot use it directly for software development. Fortunately cloud based software develop environments are good, so if I can get to the internet I can do 80+% of my development work in GCS, Azure, or AWS.

Over the next few months I am doing a bit of traveling and as an experiment, when possible, I will take only the iPad Pro and do all my development work (ML/AI) in the cloud. I really hope this works out and I can free myself from carrying 2 devices.

 

[petvas]

I just got my iMac and I am extremely happy to have a desktop and a laptop Mac. The iPad sits now on my desk and haven't touched it the whole day. I guess I will see if I find a use for it, or not. The feeling of having a real desktop computer is great and is much better (for me) than having just a laptop connected to an external display. The difference is big..
The iPad is as a couch/bed device pretty good, so I might keep it. For everything else I would use an iPad only if all of my Macs stop working.

 

[prospervic]

Apple has never said that iPad will be the primary device of the future. That is a conclusion some iPad users have made on their own. Apple has, however, stated the opposite—that Macs and iPads will both continue to have their place, only that which device one chooses depends on the user.
The reason both will continue side by side is that iOS, with its sandboxed app-centric os, touch ui, and corresponding applications, was designed and is perfect for consumption and shorter input interactions. MacOS, with its file-centric os, pointer ui, and it’s correspond applications, was designed and is perfect for more demanding workflows and longer input interactions.
One is not better or more advanced than the other. They’re simply made for different purposes (insert car+truck analogy). Apple’s push for iPads to replace more laptops simply reflects the fact that for some who are currently on MacOS (or preferably Windows), iOS is better suited for their needs (especially with the help of the keyboard and pencil). It was a marketing push in a time of slowing sales.
It’s possible iOS could pivot to become file-centric and have mouse support and thereby push out MacOS, but at that point, what’s the major difference between the OSes? One could accomplish the same thing the other way, by adapting MacOS for touch. But both are extremely doubtful (outside of the rumor about mouse accessibility support in iOS). Apple has been very clear about maintaining both platforms.

Actually, Apple did kind of say that “iPad will be the primary device of the future”. Tim Cook’s mission statement for the iPad is “The clearest expression of our vision of the future of personal computing.” Having come of age when the IBM Personal Computer was introduced, I take original meaning of “personal computing” — in your office or home, and not on some mainframe. This “future” a long time coming, but I believe it will be some form of tablet or slate for the majority of people.

You are correct that Apple intends for the iPad to be used alongside the Mac. However, it’s Apple’s marketing statement “It could be your only computer” that’s the bug up people’s butts. The operative term here is “could be”. Hell, anything “could be!” (Talk about wiggle room!) But that doesn’t mean it should be for everyone.

I admit I fell for Tim Cook’s “why would you ever buy a PC?” line when he introduced the first iPad Pro running ios 9. iOS has come a long way since then, but still it’s not a Mac experience. Over time I began to realize that maybe my expecting it to be was the source of my frustration. I asked myself “what if I had never before used a Mac or a PC. How would I approach this?” By taking this path of discovery, learning how iOS works without preconceived notions from macOS, things began to get much easier.

This is what I mean’t by a new paradigm. Computers are supposed to get easier as they move forward. GUI is easier than DOS. Mac is easier and less complicated than Windows, iOS is far less complicated and much easier than macOS. But the future is hard to see when you’re on ground level in your daily job. Just as early users of Mac and Windows could not conceive of a multi-touch based operating system, so too, today’s users, entrenched in the current paradigm, have difficulty envisioning a future where iPads can handle “more demanding workflows”, and “file-centric os” will be an outmoded concept.

I’m not advocating a “push out” of MacOS. On the contrary, I use my 5k iMac everyday (along with my 12.9 iPad Pro 2018)! I’m just reacting to this disparaging the iPad as a “toy” (stated several times in this thread) because some people can’t perform some tasks in the same way they perform them on a Mac or PC. It requires a re-thinking, or more accurately, a new thinking.

 

[petvas]

That maybe true for many people, but for me the iPad frustrates me in many occasions, not because it doesn't work like a Mac, but because it doesn't allow me to complete the task I want to in any way. It is also frustrating because it can accomplish some tasks much more harder than a Mac (or Windows PC) does. The question arises (at least for me), why should I go through all the extra steps the iPad requires and not use a Mac instead? It has nothing to do with old thinking. Nothing at all. If the iPad gets a very powerful OS, great full featured apps and a file system accessible by all apps, then it will not be as frustrating as now.
I am now sitting at my desk and I am using my MacBook Pro. Next to it is my iMac and my iPad. My iPad is the last device I think about using. It is still here, but I don't know for how long yet..

 

[prospervic]

That maybe true for many people, but for me the iPad frustrates me in many occasions, not because it doesn't work like a Mac, but because it doesn't allow me to complete the task I want to in any way. It is also frustrating because it can accomplish some tasks much more harder than a Mac (or Windows PC) does. The question arises (at least for me), why should I go through all the extra steps the iPad requires and not use a Mac instead? It has nothing to do with old thinking. Nothing at all. If the iPad gets a very powerful OS, great full featured apps and a file system accessible by all apps, then it will not be as frustrating as now.
I am now sitting at my desk and I am using my MacBook Pro. Next to it is my iMac and my iPad. My iPad is the last device I think about using. It is still here, but I don't know for how long yet..

Not discounting your experience, I know it’s very real because I experienced a lot of the same. Trying to do something with your left hand that you’ve done all your life with your right hand (or vice versa) sucks!!
Funny thing is, we can’t tell we’re using “old thinking” while we’re in “old thinking”. It’s only after we’ve learned “new thinking” (if we’re lucky) that we can see how old our “old” thinking was.

But to be really fair, it’s not our “old” thinking that’s the problem. It’s the developer’s thinking — many have not fully embraced this new paradigm to create apps that operate with these new concepts in mind. Why? Maybe they’re lazy? Or don’t want to alienate their users? But some of the blame must surely lie with Apple. They’ve been slow to push the iPad forward and maximize it’s potential. Maybe they were spooked by the big drop in sales a couple of years ago, and felt they needed to slow down and hold their user’s hands longer? Or maybe see that people over a certain age are reluctant to change their ways and learn new things, and are focusing on younger generations.
But, that doesn’t mean they should treat them like children! Seriously, Apple! How many f@#king animoji’s do we really need?

 

[Mike Boreham]

Even scrolling through Macrumors is a far nicer experience on a laptop. You can open threads in new tabs, have separate windows, switch between them.

I don’t disagree with your conclusions, but iOS is more capable than many realise from casual use. Example relevant to your comment in screenshot.

I have a 12.9 gen 3 and a 12” Macbook and find myself reaching for the iPad more and more.

 

[richpjr]

I'm not convinced that being stuck in "old thinking" is really the issue for a lot of the complaints. It's about the hoops and gyrations that people must go through to get a task done. If a new paradigm was developed that allowed a task to get done faster or with fewer steps than that is great, even if you have to relearn how to do something. But way too many things are dumbed down in iOS that work if you have a simplistic workflow but are exercises in frustration for anything outside of that.

 

[petvas]

It's not only the developers. It's Apple too. The iPad is severely limited by its OS. There is no reason why I shouldn't be able to access files on an external drive, or attach a CD Drive and rip audio tracks to mp3. None at all! It has nothing to do with old thinking. What would the "new thinking" be here? Should I ask myself why I need this functionality?
Why can't I use Macros in Excel mobile? Here you can probably blame Microsoft (developer) but I think it's too easy to do that and that the issue is much more complicated. iOS has a completely different logic than macOS or Windows. It is also much more constrained than macOS and much more limited. I am not a developer and don't know what limitations Microsoft is facing when developing its apps for the iPad. The fact is though that their functionality is severely limited, compared to Windows and macOS.
The app centric approach (new thinking) would be great if we had the same functionality.
This modern age of computing is great, but one of the things I hate about it is that power users are left behind. Apps lose functionality all the time and are reduced to a minimum, as if we were idiots that don't know how to use a computer. If this is the new thinking, then no thank you, I will stay with my old ways.
Another example of limitations is the Mail.app. On my Mac I have VIPs configured, but their mails reside on various folders. My Mac Mail.app displays all mails correctly, independent of the location of the mails. The Mail.app on my iPad and iPhone displays only mails that are on the inbox folder. How lame is that? Would the new thinking be here to just use one folder for everything? I am using some of the zero Inbox principles, so I move mails based on sender or subject to various folders. Why must I change this? Just because Apple has done a bad job developing the mail.app on iOS? Btw, the same applies to Outlook on mobile. Apparently there must be some other reason (I guess performance and energy saving from not having to constantly scan all folders for mails..). Also, why can't I have smart folders on the iPad? Why?
I am sorry and I don't want to insult anyone. I just think that most people that are satisfied by these programs do have modest expectations and/or requirements, or don't know any better. Some times I think that developers think that people are idiots, who cannot use a computer (and that might be true for 80 of the population but not for everybody). If the iPad is for this 80% then I am out. Apple needs to explain to us what their intentions with the iPad as a Pro device are.
If Apple is asking 1500$ for an iPad Pro with the Smart Keyboard (512GB), then this cannot be just to be able to browse the web and respond to mails in a basic way, with limited functionality. For artists and people that use the pencil I understand, but for everybody else, I just don't..

 

[richpjr]

It's not only the developers. It's Apple too. The iPad is severely limited by its OS. There is no reason why I shouldn't be able to access files on an external drive, or attach a CD Drive and rip audio tracks to mp3. None at all! It has nothing to do with old thinking. What would the "new thinking" be here? Should I ask myself why I need this functionality?

Maybe the "new thinking" is that Apple wants to sell you iCloud storage rather than have you BYOD for external storage!

 

[petvas]

Maybe the "new thinking" is that Apple wants to sell you iCloud storage rather than have you BYOD for external storage!

Great! They should also convince the publishers of the books my wife is buying, to upload their audio files as mp3 to iTunes, or to a cloud service the iPad can access, instead of putting Audio CDs in their books. Old thinking? Apple (which I really love), has a device that does nothing great, some things good and many things very bad or not at all. It's called the iPad. I will wait for the WWDC announcement and then decide if I am selling my iPad Pro.

 

[richpjr]

Great! They should also convince the publishers of the books my wife is buying, to upload their audio files as mp3 to iTunes, or to a cloud service the iPad can access, instead of putting Audio CDs in their books. Old thinking? Apple (which I really love), has a device that does nothing great, some things good and many things very bad or not at all. It's called the iPad. I will wait for the WWDC announcement and then decide if I am selling my iPad Pro.

I'm curious to see what iOS 13 brings. I suspect many (including me) have gotten their hopes up for things Apple will actually add. I won't sell my iPad because I do use it for somethings and it does those well. It could just do so much more...

 

[prospervic]

It's not only the developers. It's Apple too. The iPad is severely limited by its OS. There is no reason why I shouldn't be able to access files on an external drive, or attach a CD Drive and rip audio tracks to mp3. None at all! It has nothing to do with old thinking. What would the "new thinking" be here? Should I ask myself why I need this functionality?
Why can't I use Macros in Excel mobile? Here you can probably blame Microsoft (developer) but I think it's too easy to do that and that the issue is much more complicated. iOS has a completely different logic than macOS or Windows. It is also much more constrained than macOS and much more limited. I am not a developer and don't know what limitations Microsoft is facing when developing its apps for the iPad. The fact is though that their functionality is severely limited, compared to Windows and macOS.
The app centric approach (new thinking) would be great if we had the same functionality.
This modern age of computing is great, but one of the things I hate about it is that power users are left behind. Apps lose functionality all the time and are reduced to a minimum, as if we were idiots that don't know how to use a computer. If this is the new thinking, then no thank you, I will stay with my old ways.
Another example of limitations is the Mail.app. On my Mac I have VIPs configured, but their mails reside on various folders. My Mac Mail.app displays all mails correctly, independent of the location of the mails. The Mail.app on my iPad and iPhone displays only mails that are on the inbox folder. How lame is that? Would the new thinking be here to just use one folder for everything? I am using some of the zero Inbox principles, so I move mails based on sender or subject to various folders. Why must I change this? Just because Apple has done a bad job developing the mail.app on iOS? Btw, the same applies to Outlook on mobile. Apparently there must be some other reason (I guess performance and energy saving from not having to constantly scan all folders for mails..). Also, why can't I have smart folders on the iPad? Why?
I am sorry and I don't want to insult anyone. I just think that most people that are satisfied by these programs do have modest expectations and/or requirements, or don't know any better. Some times I think that developers think that people are idiots, who cannot use a computer (and that might be true for 80 of the population but not for everybody). If the iPad is for this 80% then I am out. Apple needs to explain to us what their intentions with the iPad as a Pro device are.
If Apple is asking 1500$ for an iPad Pro with the Smart Keyboard (512GB), then this cannot be just to be able to browse the web and respond to mails in a basic way, with limited functionality. For artists and people that use the pencil I understand, but for everybody else, I just don't..

You make valid points, especially regarding email. (BTW, have you tried Airmail? It offers a ton of customization options, and it might furnish what you’re missing.)
Perhaps I need to make clearer what I mean about the future: It may be very far out (or it might not), but when we get there, the very assumptions we have about how to do things on the computer will fundamentally change. Again, take email: so many of the features and workarounds (i.e. smart folders) we deploy are really patches in an attempt to streamline what is really a clunky and complicated process. I imagine in the not-too-distant future email will be far simpler and less way less annoying. How will it work? I don’t know (Siri Shortcuts might be the first seeds of it), but I bet we’ll look back and wonder how we ever put up with how it is today.

This is where ios and the iPad will come into their own. An appropriate analogy might be UNIX and macOS. I could devote the time and effort to fully learn how to write UNIX instructions, but I have better things to do with my time, and am quite happy using macOS’s drag-and-drop GUI.

But unless someone likes to live on the bleeding edge of ios (like tech writer and podcaster Frederico Viticci), they probably shouldn’t rush to move their entire workflow over to iOS. I certainly haven’t, even though I’m bullish on iPad. (I’d better be, as I’m one of those who spent the $1,500 you mentioned.)

The future looks great (at least until climate change takes over).

 

[spiderman0616]

All my workflows are now full time on iPad Pro. I couldn’t imagine going back to macOS at this point. Apps like Affinity Photo and Procreate are so much better on the iPad with an Apple Pencil. Haven’t learned LumaFusion yet, but that’s next on my list.

I just don’t enjoy working from Macs or PCs anymore. I have fun using my iPad Pro no matter what the task is.

 

[Lyrca]

A year ago if anyone would ask me if I had any interest in an iPad I would have said it’s a nice device but I can’t see how it would be of any use to me.

I then started being interested in what and what not could be done. I came to the conclusion that within my needs it would be well suited if I accepted to rethink how I get things done.

Few weeks went by and the urge to make the jump got stronger until I finally gave in. 2 months later I haven’t looked back once.

Mind you I understand perfectly well that my use case might not suit someone else. I would not even dream of being able to swap my work desktop for an Ipad, but back home I have a great time using my 11”.

I look greatly forward to what Apple will do with iOS over the next few years.