Is Mac Pro 2009 or 2010 still relevant as video editing machine?

[namethisfile]

Yes, especially if you install Windows

I already have Windows 10 installed on a custom-built PC (i7-3770K, 16GB RAM & GTX970), which is my gaming PC. It is a very capable editing machine and I do have Sony Movie Studio on it. But, that's a consumer video editing program. I could get Premiere Pro, but, the subscription model is scary. Considering that I don't make money video editing, it would be dumb of me to subscribe to a monthly fee for Adobe's Creative Suite.

But, I am an aspiring filmmaker and I already invested in FCPX and MotionX, which I really like, anyway, as is on my MBP. I am only contemplating a Classic Mac Pro because I recently found out that I can afford a used one. And, if I do get one, a Mid-2010 Mac Pro, even if it's only Quad Core, would be at least 2x faster (more if I upgrade) than my 2010 15" MBP that is only dual-core (with hyperthreading).....

hay h9826790 gives good advice and knows what he's talking about.

when you say video editing it's kind of a how fast do you want it/need it, almost any computer will do :E

the macpro is using a cpu that is old (2010 ish about 6 years), there from the i7 970/980/990 gen.
each gen of intel cpu has about a 10%speedup at the same mhz speed so new cpu's are faster.
the macpro is also using old sata2 connections (unless you use pcie drives), older ram etc..

it is a top-ish end computer from 2010 simply

so yes it can edit and it can do 4K, just slower than if you use a newer cpu/mobo/ram

but at what price?
the problem is that if you buy a macpro you spending more than you need to for the hardware, the 'apple tax thing' if you look on ebay you can get dell or HP workstations for more than half the price with the same CPU/RAM

simply your paying more than you need to for a older/slower computer (also ware and repairs may be a problem) so if the computer is for work then it's a less efficient option. it will work but will be slower than the same priced hackingtosh or windows computer.

but in the same way im using one for 1080p work seems fine for me most the time but i also know unless apple dose a u-turn on the macpro ill be moving to a hackingtosh for my next workstation and if you gave me the option of buying a hack or a 5.1 today id look at the hack.

ps ram needed relay depends on how complex your work is 32GB is a good start and fairly cheep but you will want a video card with 4GB vram if your doing 4K

pps my sisters macbook 13" a few years old with a i3 has faster single core speed than my macpro the main problem with laptops is having to plug in lots of USB drives (but usb3 has helped a lot with that)

So, A used mid-2010 Quad-core Mac Pro is like an upgrade path, for me, for the idea I have in mind, even though, it's an old computer....

But, the only thing... the only thing that I'm hesitant with in pulling the trigger to purchase a used Mac Pro.. is how much of an upgrade is it from my current machine? Will MotionX be significantly improved? I've tried using MotionX on my Windows PC under Yosemite, when I was able to dual boot it as a hackintosh and windows machine. And, MotionX ran very well on it. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to successfully hack my PC again to run El Capitan for some reason. Or, I'm too lazy to do it and troubleshoot it, anymore.

So... how well and how fluid is it during the editing process will a Mac Pro Quad-core be under FCP X and MotionX? Since I don't have first-hand experience with this Mac Po or its architecture... I don't know, if, it's worth investing in. I could care less about export time or whathaveyou. I could go have a cigarette for all I care. But, the editing process, when working in Motion X in real time, sorta speak, is the performance spectrum/data that I am looking for.

So, I guess, an ideal response would be from someone who is currently using a Mid-2010 Quad-core Mac Pro and works on it extensively in projects, either professionally or individually as an artist, using MotionX and FCPX.

Thanks!

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

I already have Windows 10 installed on a custom-built PC (i7-3770K, 16GB RAM & GTX970), which is my gaming PC. It is a very capable editing machine and I do have Sony Movie Studio on it. But, that's a consumer video editing program. I could get Premiere Pro, but, the subscription model is scary. Considering that I don't make money video editing, it would be dumb of me to subscribe to a monthly fee for Adobe's Creative Suite.

But, I am an aspiring filmmaker and I already invested in FCPX and MotionX, which I really like, anyway, as is on my MBP. I am only contemplating a Classic Mac Pro because I recently found out that I can afford a used one. And, if I do get one, a Mid-2010 Mac Pro, even if it's only Quad Core, would be at least 2x faster (more if I upgrade) than my 2010 15" MBP that is only dual-core (with hyperthreading).....



So, A used mid-2010 Quad-core Mac Pro is like an upgrade path, for me, for the idea I have in mind, even though, it's an old computer....

But, the only thing... the only thing that I'm hesitant with in pulling the trigger to purchase a used Mac Pro.. is how much of an upgrade is it from my current machine? Will MotionX be significantly improved? I've tried using MotionX on my Windows PC under Yosemite, when I was able to dual boot it as a hackintosh and windows machine. And, MotionX ran very well on it. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to successfully hack my PC again to run El Capitan for some reason. Or, I'm too lazy to do it and troubleshoot it, anymore.

So... how well and how fluid is it during the editing process will a Mac Pro Quad-core be under FCP X and MotionX? Since I don't have first-hand experience with this Mac Po or its architecture... I don't know, if, it's worth investing in. I could care less about export time or whathaveyou. I could go have a cigarette for all I care. But, the editing process, when working in Motion X in real time, sorta speak, is the performance spectrum/data that I am looking for.

So, I guess, an ideal response would be from someone who is currently using a Mid-2010 Quad-core Mac Pro and works on it extensively in projects, either professionally or individually as an artist, using MotionX and FCPX.

Thanks!

Nothing wrong with the subscription fee. I remember when Premiere cost £1200 and each upgrade every 12-18 months was £800. Count yourself very very fortunate. You have very powerful software that keeps getting cheaper and cheaper, and if you are a professional or business these are tax deductible running costs.

 

[orph]

if your learning and on a budget learn resolve on your windows rig https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/products/davinciresolve
it's free and can do most things you need

thats the best thing you can do to start, learn then look at upgrading software.

if you already have a i7-3770K, 16GB RAM & GTX970 then a mac pro will be slower :3 id gess (you can always see if you can fix it to boot back in to osx)

to see macpro cpu's (im assuming you will buy the macpro then upgrade the cpu)
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-pro-cpu-compatibility-list.1954766/
i7 990 is about the fastest CPU you can get in a macpro (the xeon counterpart is harder to find comparisons for but basically the same chip)
i7 990 v i7 3770K the 3770k has faster single core speed but might get edged out if you can use all cores, just tho

most of the time faster single core speed matters more.

now im not saying dont get a macpro im just saying dont think a computer with older parts is going do do magic, work out a budget and maybe look at a newer 6c i7 cpu with mobo and parts (and see which looks best for you)
if you need it to work in osx then check with the hack forums

ps it's simple there's no magic to a mac it's just ruining on normal hardware an i7 is a i7 a GTX 970 is a GTX 970 if anything things tend to run slower when booted in to osx not faster

 

[Synchro3]

As others have said, as long as you don't buy from rip-offs like OWC or MacVideoCards, you can actually edit 4k footage for your price range, or just a hair more. 64gb of ram can be had for $120, but you don't need it. 32 will do fine for around $75.

I disagree in all conviction. MacVidCards is not a rip-off, was never a rip-off. For time-consuming development of EFI's, flashing the card's, changing ROM's, testing each card, the prices are adequate. Benefits: Option Boot, PCI-E 2.0 in Windows etc are indeed important.

I would never use a Non-EFI-Card in a Mac Pro with multiple Boot Volumes, specifically Boot Camp Windows volumes. Without EFI its a PITA.

 

[STX535]

I'm a big fan of this thread. I bought a 2009 MacPro 2 quad core, 16gb ram and stock video card in '10 from a friend. Good machine. Ran hot working on Adobe apps or Civilization. After I got a '12 MBP, it's just been sitting there. As much as I like the esthetics of the new MP, I'd love to rehab this one or find it a good home.

I still have not flashed it to the 5,1. I'd love to max it out as much as I can for under $1000. MacNN had started a thread on upgrading them but then they shut down this summer. A step by step sticky, I think, would be a great service to the community. Tons of knowledge. I didn't even know that some video cards are better for FCPX vs Adobe.

And if you have advice one what components NOT to get, please, let me know. I had previously installed a pci-USB 3.0 card to add 4 usb 3.0 ports and it would constantly crash.Probably a cheapo part. But I digress.

Give us your best build advice and part recommendation.

 

[knowhate]

.

 

[namethisfile]

Nothing wrong with the subscription fee. I remember when Premiere cost £1200 and each upgrade every 12-18 months was £800. Count yourself very very fortunate. You have very powerful software that keeps getting cheaper and cheaper, and if you are a professional or business these are tax deductible running costs.

Yeah. I am, kinda, old, so I do remember the olden days, unfortunately. I had Final Cut Express for the longest time running on a 12" Powerbook, then a Mid-2007 iMac. Until, Apple released FCP X. It's the best video editing program in the whole wide world, considering its features and price. Lol!

But, in that time of the Final Cut Express days, Final Cut Pro 7 and prior releases were around $1200, too, for the studio bundle. I could never justify the price for it. So, I'm glad Apple decided to go bargain discount on FCP X, while still being very awesome, in my opinion. I guess, they foresaw something in the marketplace that made them, be like, let's make our professional apps be more affordable for everyone. Not just businesses and institutions and post-houses. I don't know.

Premiere Pro was also in the same price point as Final Cut Pro 7. But, never considered it since everyone at the time around me were using FCP 7. But, now, it seems like everyone is using Premiere Pro.

I think I have an adequate Premiere Pro PC. But, since I am not making money on video editing, I am hesitant to get on the subscription plan. Of course, being a subscription plan, it's easier to just get on the program at a moment's notice. As opposed to yesteryears, like you mentioned, when the software cost upwards of a grand. And, you're stuck with the "express" version, like me. Lol!

I think I am going to see what it's like in the coming months before spending money on hardware. Whether I should go hackintosh or classic Mac Pro... or maybe, an adequately powered new mac mini that everyone here is wishing will finally come out...

 

[Synchro3]

So you are saying the 2009-2012 cMP don't go above 56GB of ram?

The Xeon W3690/W3680 doesn't go above 56 GB of ram. The X5690/x5680 does indeed.

 

[DanSilov]

If you chase good deals on eBay or Craigslist, you can actually assemble a beast quite cheaply.

My MacPro 5,1 build cost me about $1500 total (most of which can be installed over time):

• MacPro4,1 with dual CPU on eBay - $550 - took me a few tries to get one in pristine condition for good price
• First X5680 - $133
• Second X5680 - $170 - no need buy a matched pair
• 8x8GB 1333MHz RAM - $110
• Inateck USB 3.0 - $40 - optional
• PCIe m.2 SSD Adaptor - $27
• Samsung m.2 512GB - $290 - system drive, can be smaller, obviously, can also be regular SSD, but I needed that 1500MB/s read speed
• Bluetooth/Wi-Fi card to support AirDrop - $120 - very very optional
• R9 280x - $160 - I flashed it myself, very simple procedure, but it worked OOB anyway

I can edit 4K RAW RED files in FCPX on it just fine. In the future it needs better GPU (fingers crossed for double RX480) and more SSD storage (planning to buy 2x1TB SSD to RAID it), but it's not just capable, it's actually much better than anything else for now, shows ~31000 in Geekbench.

And I believe it has about 4-5 years in it easily, because working with video is mostly GPU, which can be upgraded.

 

[namethisfile]

If you chase good deals on eBay or Craigslist, you can actually assemble a beast quite cheaply.

My MacPro 5,1 build cost me about $1500 total (most of which can be installed over time):

• MacPro4,1 with dual CPU on eBay - $550 - took me a few tries to get one in pristine condition for good price
• First X5680 - $133
• Second X5680 - $170 - no need buy a matched pair
• 8x8GB 1333MHz RAM - $110
• Inateck USB 3.0 - $40 - optional
• PCIe m.2 SSD Adaptor - $27
• Samsung m.2 512GB - $290 - system drive, can be smaller, obviously, can also be regular SSD, but I needed that 1500MB/s read speed
• Bluetooth/Wi-Fi card to support AirDrop - $120 - very very optional
• R9 280x - $160 - I flashed it myself, very simple procedure, but it worked OOB anyway

I can edit 4K RAW RED files in FCPX on it just fine. In the future it needs better GPU (fingers crossed for double RX480) and more SSD storage (planning to buy 2x1TB SSD to RAID it), but it's not just capable, it's actually much better than anything else for now, shows ~31000 in Geekbench.

And I believe it has about 4-5 years in it easily, because working with video is mostly GPU, which can be upgraded.

Nice. I am not up to your level of 4K RAW RED files, yet. But, when you say fine. Is it just fine, like, I wish it was better, fine? Or, fine, like, it's fast enough fine?

And, is that 1500MB/s read speed something you need for 4K RAW RED files?

My interest on cMP is for GPU upgrade path and AMD releasing the new Polaris GPU's. If, RX470 or RX480 are natively supported in MacOS Sierra, a classic Mac Pro (if MacOS Sierra still supoprts it) would look very enticing in, terms of, leveraging GPU horsepower for FCPX and MotionX. Even, if I only get the Quad-Core Mac Pro's... I was thinking that, if I paired it with an RX470 or RX480, or even R9 280X (can't find one anywhere at the moment for some reason), get at least 16GB of RAM (RAM for these Mac Pro's are tricky to find, btw) and a small 240 GB SSD for OS and Apps and like another SSD of the same size or higher for a scratchdisk that I would be good to go for an infinite period of time. I say that because I am happy with FCP X performance on my mid-2010 Macbook Pro and MotionX is only slight sluggish on it, I think, mainly due to my MBP only having 512MB of VRAM and a lowly GT330m. But, if I get a Mac Pro with a Quad-core CPU and a decent GPU, I am golden, as far as I am concerned.....

 

[Murray M]

FCPX vs Premiere is a hot conversation. I've been using FCP since version 1 and I really loved it. FCPX threw away a great interface (FCP7) and made IMovie Pro. Don't get me wrong: FCPX is a great program that meets the needs of the majority [which is true to Apple's mission to make products aimed at the middle].

However, there are issues that pop up when you aim for the middle. FCPX and MotionX are too automatic. They do too many things for you and are quick to make stuff slick instead of giving you the control to make it your way. That's where Premiere SHINES. You have much more control over everything. Premiere actually stole the interface of FCP7 when Apple discarded it so old FCP users are quite taken care of.

The devil is in the details. Premiere leverages the beautiful After Effects interface to make EVERYTHING keyframe controllable. SO BEAUTIFUL. Really elegant time controls for micro controlling small speed changes within the tiny frame level.

Summed up:

If you're new to video and want something fast and easy then FCPX is for you. Great product for that.
If you're a video pro and you want control over what you make then Premiere is much better.

Comparing MotionX and After Effects is very similar to this.

----

As far as the subscription model goes: it's the price of doing business. Software costs money. You can either pay a lot all at once or pay gradually.

----

BOTTOM LINE

None of this really matters. You can make a great video using either software and on any computer. I've seen killer things made with an phone and free editing software on a cheap computer. If you don't have the money and you're just starting out then keep your head down, invest minimally in gear and think a lot about how to tell your story.

 

[namethisfile]

FCPX vs Premiere is a hot conversation. I've been using FCP since version 1 and I really loved it. FCPX threw away a great interface (FCP7) and made IMovie Pro. Don't get me wrong: FCPX is a great program that meets the needs of the majority [which is true to Apple's mission to make products aimed at the middle].

However, there are issues that pop up when you aim for the middle. FCPX and MotionX are too automatic. They do too many things for you and are quick to make stuff slick instead of giving you the control to make it your way. That's where Premiere SHINES. You have much more control over everything. Premiere actually stole the interface of FCP7 when Apple discarded it so old FCP users are quite taken care of.

The devil is in the details. Premiere leverages the beautiful After Effects interface to make EVERYTHING keyframe controllable. SO BEAUTIFUL. Really elegant time controls for micro controlling small speed changes within the tiny frame level.

Summed up:

If you're new to video and want something fast and easy then FCPX is for you. Great product for that.
If you're a video pro and you want control over what you make then Premiere is much better.

Comparing MotionX and After Effects is very similar to this.

----

As far as the subscription model goes: it's the price of doing business. Software costs money. You can either pay a lot all at once or pay gradually.

----

BOTTOM LINE

None of this really matters. You can make a great video using either software and on any computer. I've seen killer things made with an phone and free editing software on a cheap computer. If you don't have the money and you're just starting out then keep your head down, invest minimally in gear and think a lot about how to tell your story.

I don't know what you're ranting about Premiere Pro having more control with key-framing when the same can be done with FCPX. The only thing automatic with FCPX are the titles, which comes with a few dozen pre-made title sequences. But, one can customize it within FCPX. Or, one can make their own custom title sequence from scratch using Motion.

I don't want this to be a Premiere Pro vs. FCPX debate, though. I've used Premiere Pro (trial verson) and it's capable and it's a great program.

And I completely disagree that Apple made FCP X to appeal to the middle. I don't even know what that means when you say middle. Do you mean mainstream? The consumers as opposed to the professionals? If so, the price might be "middle" priced. But, I think FCPX is a full featured video editing program.

But, I do agree that no one is looking for an FCPX editor. Lol! No one is hiring people with FCPX machines, which is funny because the cost of entry for a very capable FCPX workstation is so much less than, if, one used Windows and Premiere Pro, I think.

 

[Murray M]

Forgive me if I'm coming off as ranting--I'm just passionate about making videos and all aspects of the tech. I'm also WAY into key framing so it's not just a matter of one program "has it" it's a matter of how well it executes it.

Consider this: After Effects came out around 1998 [more or less]. It was then Cosa After Effects (Adobe bought it from Cosa). Cosa's interface WAS SO GOOD THAT IT HASN"T CHANGED IN ALL THESE YEARS. It's just a really good design. Premiere uses this same interface.

---

FCPX is a great program for most people making videos (particularly if you're new to it). If it works for you then go for it.

Apple has been philosophically moving away from Pro users and running towards the middle [by "middle" I mean average users] for some time. Other examples: Quicktime and the Mac Pro. The new version of Quicktime can't do many of the things version 7 could do. The "new" Mac Pro has comically behind video cards [and other things...].

I used to LOVE FCP. I switched to FCP from Premiere 5 [if I remember correctly], which was super buggy when it came to the early days of DV. Back in those days (this is around 1999-2000, it just made sense to go with the editor made by the people who also made the new firewire tech (Apple and FCP). If FCPX could have worked for me I would have stuck with it.

All the professionals I know came to the same conclusion about choosing Premiere over FCPX. I say this is a "hot conversation" out of respect--in reality it's kinda sorted out. I don't know any pro editors who use FCPX. I'm sure they're out there--they're just not common enough for me to run into them.

: )

----

Why this matters to your original hardware question is you have to really commit to one platform or the other because of the different video card structure. FCPX likes AMD and Premiere likes Nvidia.

Cool?

 

[h9826790]

I bought a single processor 2009 on ebay for $270 with no video card. Put in a hex w3690 for $75, added used HP server ram and installed an SSD and put in a GTX980ti. This machine is smoking fast and good for another 8 years all for under a grand. Building power can be done, just take your time, find the right pieces and have fun!

Nice build with that cost.
[doublepost=1474348067][/doublepost]

Thanks everyone for all your inputs.

I think my plan is to wait until MacOS Sierra comes out and see if it supports certain GPU's from AMD that were just released and then find out how these cards are viable for either the cMP or a hackintosh build to edit video using FCP X and MotionX. I am trying to learn Motion and although my current 15" MBP (mid-2010; GT330m; 8GB RAM; i7 Dual core) is competent enough for 1080P video editing in FCP X.... It is sluggish in MotionX.

I also wanna, perhaps, wait a bit longer (maybe save more money) and see what new macs Apple will release in the Fall, which is rumored that they will.

I am really hoping for a quad-core mac mini, even if it has intel iris pro... (I know this is a dream for a lot of y'all, too. LOL!!!)

Or, if new iMacs, maybe a 21.5" version that is just beyond my budget but stretchable due to specs that would make working in MotionX smooth and fast...

Or, go budget... and rethink the hackintosh route running MacOS Sierra with AMD RX470 GPU (if it is natively supported; and, OOB supported)...

...and/or look again for cMP available that I can use with MacOS Sierra and RX470....

...again, I want a desktop FCPX and MotionX workstation, really....

Thanks!

The best known OOTB up to date AMD GPU in Sierra is the RX460. For RX470, it's NOT OOTB, but need some kext mod. Also, not entirely trouble free at this moment. Someone still manage to find some bug in OpenGL.

I suggest the 7950 because it has native Mac Edition Card. Apple should keep supporting it (e.g. Provide driver) in short future. On the other hand 7970 also natively supported because has same deviceID as the D700. However, the power management is a bit more tricky then the 7950. And we know the fact that AMD card works better in FCPX (at least for the same cost), so, even though GTX680 also a good choice. I will pick 7950 in this case.

If you are looking for budget build, new Mac should not be a option. The new "powerful" Mac will cost a lot more then a used Mac Pro. And for FCPX, due to it's highly optimised for GPU computation and multi thread. I doubt how many entry level new Mac can beat a $700 upgraded 4,1. However, if you can / will use QuickSync. DO NOT go for the Mac Pro route. QuickSync can save you lots of time and that's NOT AVAIL on any Mac Pro yet.

 

[OS6-OSX]

So, I guess, an ideal response would be from someone who is currently using a Mid-2010 Quad-core Mac Pro and works on it extensively in projects, either professionally or individually as an artist, using MotionX and FCPX.
Thanks!

Since I use Avid I am out of the FCPX/PP part of this. One thing you can do until someone responds, is to test the limits of your laptop. Run it through the paces using various footage. GH4, Alexa, F55, F3, 5D, 7D, C300, P2, R3D, A7s etc.
All of these can be found online. Run the same footage with your Mac Pro when you get it. As an aspiring film maker you did not mention what type camera you will use.
When R3D raw was mentioned it seemed as if you paused. If you ever run into any 6K Dragon you definitely will not edit it on that laptop! Just a side note, Avid has the choice to import footage or use AMA. Using Avid Media Access is a big time savor. It pretty much just plays the footage from the drives.

 

[nerdynerdynerdy]

You can edit 4k in almost any machine, you will have to work with proxy media. Anyway, working with proxy is fast and reliable, and fast, very fast. The last render is gonna take time, but can be done.

To the OP, the above the single most relevant post in this thread.

As an aspiring film maker/editor, you should educate yourself on post production workflows. Building a system that can edit, grade and apply effects to 4k and remain fast and stable involves a reasonably serious investment with little pay off if you're not billing for that sort of thing.

I know this isn't the answer you're after, but spending your budget on some courses on post workflows will be of more benefit to you in the long term.

Concentrate on producing some quality work, and you'd be surprised how many production houses would be willing to help out when it comes to access to gear for your conform, grade and mastering.

 

[DanSilov]

Nice. I am not up to your level of 4K RAW RED files, yet. But, when you say fine. Is it just fine, like, I wish it was better, fine? Or, fine, like, it's fast enough fine?

And, is that 1500MB/s read speed something you need for 4K RAW RED files?

My interest on cMP is for GPU upgrade path and AMD releasing the new Polaris GPU's. If, RX470 or RX480 are natively supported in MacOS Sierra, a classic Mac Pro (if MacOS Sierra still supoprts it) would look very enticing in, terms of, leveraging GPU horsepower for FCPX and MotionX. Even, if I only get the Quad-Core Mac Pro's... I was thinking that, if I paired it with an RX470 or RX480, or even R9 280X (can't find one anywhere at the moment for some reason), get at least 16GB of RAM (RAM for these Mac Pro's are tricky to find, btw) and a small 240 GB SSD for OS and Apps and like another SSD of the same size or higher for a scratchdisk that I would be good to go for an infinite period of time. I say that because I am happy with FCP X performance on my mid-2010 Macbook Pro and MotionX is only slight sluggish on it, I think, mainly due to my MBP only having 512MB of VRAM and a lowly GT330m. But, if I get a Mac Pro with a Quad-core CPU and a decent GPU, I am golden, as far as I am concerned.....

It was mentioned already, that with proxy you can edit 4K quite easily almost anywhere. Of course, you need to generate that proxy, and you still need to store it somewhere. I can preview 4K RAW files in FCPX without proxy in real time, but only until I add a NeatVideo and Filmconvert layer. Then I must prerender, otherwise it stops to a crawls on those scenes. But that's more of a workflow discussion.

As for MacPro, I strongly suggest not wasting money for single CPU version. Even top CPUs for that model (X5680, X5690) are quite old and they are comparatively slow in single thread operation. With upgrading MacPro to the max what you are doing is essentially bruteforcing your operations with 12 cores. So, if you want this machine to serve to you a few years, find an octacore one (this will 2x Quad CPUs). You can always upgrade CPUs later. But buying 2xCPU tray separately is a pain, they are rare and expensive.

I was monitoring eBay for a month, when a company in Boston apparently decided to sell their old computers. They've listed 6 almost identical MacPros, with only a couple of pictures and no description. The only piece of information they've provided was the serial number. Using it I found out that all models had 2xCPU. Eventually all sold in an area of $400-500.

As for m.2 SSD and 1500MB/s read speed, you can always add it later. You do need a decent-sized SSD in the machine for modern day operations, but regular 2.5" drive will do in the beginning (just need a proper sled or an adapter).

 

[namethisfile]

Since I use Avid I am out of the FCPX/PP part of this. One thing you can do until someone responds, is to test the limits of your laptop. Run it through the paces using various footage. GH4, Alexa, F55, F3, 5D, 7D, C300, P2, R3D, A7s etc.
All of these can be found online. Run the same footage with your Mac Pro when you get it. As an aspiring film maker you did not mention what type camera you will use.
When R3D raw was mentioned it seemed as if you paused. If you ever run into any 6K Dragon you definitely will not edit it on that laptop! Just a side note, Avid has the choice to import footage or use AMA. Using Avid Media Access is a big time savor. It pretty much just plays the footage from the drives.

My own personal camera is a Sony NEX-6 (I know. Very professional). And, my MBP can edit the highest recording setting on this camera, which is 1080P, 60FPS, 28 MBps, AVCHD file format.

So, I figured I can edit 1080P footage, I think, from any camera, really. I guess when it comes to work, I am limited to my resources. But, I have never been able to test my gear before, or have come to this part since no one out there is really looking for FCPX editors. Well, there was one, which I think was a hoax, or a sneaky company/individual trying to edit their videos for them for free because they kept emailing me about an editing job and sent me files to edit as a test. Even, after they said I wasn't the right person, after I finished and sent out this test edit for them, they contacted me again a couple months later for another test. I said no the second time, you already said I wasn't the right person. And, they said, Oops, effectively. So, I thought, that was weird....

Anyway, yeah. I've tried 4K on my MBP and it's a no go. I think I am stuck with 1080P or using proxy media or something of that nature with my MBP.

So, I guess, my next question is, will a Quad-core classic Mac Pro with say, an AMD HD5770 gpu, 16 GB of RAM, be able to edit 4K, or RED RAW files?.... without spending a fortune?

Thanks!!!!
[doublepost=1474393097][/doublepost]

It was mentioned already, that with proxy you can edit 4K quite easily almost anywhere. Of course, you need to generate that proxy, and you still need to store it somewhere. I can preview 4K RAW files in FCPX without proxy in real time, but only until I add a NeatVideo and Filmconvert layer. Then I must prerender, otherwise it stops to a crawls on those scenes. But that's more of a workflow discussion.

As for MacPro, I strongly suggest not wasting money for single CPU version. Even top CPUs for that model (X5680, X5690) are quite old and they are comparatively slow in single thread operation. With upgrading MacPro to the max what you are doing is essentially bruteforcing your operations with 12 cores. So, if you want this machine to serve to you a few years, find an octacore one (this will 2x Quad CPUs). You can always upgrade CPUs later. But buying 2xCPU tray separately is a pain, they are rare and expensive.

I was monitoring eBay for a month, when a company in Boston apparently decided to sell their old computers. They've listed 6 almost identical MacPros, with only a couple of pictures and no description. The only piece of information they've provided was the serial number. Using it I found out that all models had 2xCPU. Eventually all sold in an area of $400-500.

As for m.2 SSD and 1500MB/s read speed, you can always add it later. You do need a decent-sized SSD in the machine for modern day operations, but regular 2.5" drive will do in the beginning (just need a proper sled or an adapter).

Ok. The beastly cMP's are still beyond what I am willing to spend after looking on the internet. I found a six-core Mac Pro that looks tantalizing, price-wise, but still a bit too much.

The only ones within what I am willing to spend are the quad-core ones. And, I guess, I have been naive in saying that it is an upgrade from my MBP. But, maybe, it isn't like you said.

I guess what I need to find out is if the Quad-core macs with minimal upgrades (RAM, SSD, affordable GPU) will not just be an "automatic" upgrade from my current MBP. But, something that can grow (without spending too much more) in the future, such as being able to edit RED RAW FILES, 4K and whathaveyou, even via proxy media or workflow conversions....

I guess, during the editing process, in real time, is what I am concerned about. Because I know my MBP cannot edit 4K in real time and is choppy as hell. I am wondering if a Quad-core Mac Pro with say, HD5770 can edit 4K files in FCPX without it being choppy. I guess proxy media can do that. But, I am talking about the 4K files from a prosumer or consumer camera, which I think is compressed and any decent PC should be able to handle it with ease, which my MBP being old and from 2010 (dual-core only with HT) cannot do without it being choppy.

Thanks!
[doublepost=1474393694][/doublepost]

Nice build with that cost.
[doublepost=1474348067][/doublepost]

The best known OOTB up to date AMD GPU in Sierra is the RX460. For RX470, it's NOT OOTB, but need some kext mod. Also, not entirely trouble free at this moment. Someone still manage to find some bug in OpenGL.

I suggest the 7950 because it has native Mac Edition Card. Apple should keep supporting it (e.g. Provide driver) in short future. On the other hand 7970 also natively supported because has same deviceID as the D700. However, the power management is a bit more tricky then the 7950. And we know the fact that AMD card works better in FCPX (at least for the same cost), so, even though GTX680 also a good choice. I will pick 7950 in this case.

If you are looking for budget build, new Mac should not be a option. The new "powerful" Mac will cost a lot more then a used Mac Pro. And for FCPX, due to it's highly optimised for GPU computation and multi thread. I doubt how many entry level new Mac can beat a $700 upgraded 4,1. However, if you can / will use QuickSync. DO NOT go for the Mac Pro route. QuickSync can save you lots of time and that's NOT AVAIL on any Mac Pro yet.

That's good news because the RX460 is very affordable brand new. It's considerably much lower spec'ed than the RX470, though, which is also affordable at $200 brand new, which is known to be very good at "gaming," which this thread isn't about. But, to me, if a card is good at "gaming," I hear, it's also good at editing. Lol.

Anyway, I have been sort of internet-window shopping and 7950's and 680's are so overpriced right now. I had a GTX680 before I got a GTX970 and I regret selling it for $200. Lol.

But, it would be cool if one cool slap a RX470 or RX460 or even RX480 in the old classic Mac Pro's and leverage them for FCPX. And, perhaps, game on the side via bootcamp or something.

We'll see... MacOS Sierra just came out today. So, we should hear more about compatibility for the new AMD Polaris GPU's.

 

[knowhate]

.

 

[DanSilov]

Ok. The beastly cMP's are still beyond what I am willing to spend after looking on the internet. I found a six-core Mac Pro that looks tantalizing, price-wise, but still a bit too much.

The only ones within what I am willing to spend are the quad-core ones. And, I guess, I have been naive in saying that it is an upgrade from my MBP. But, maybe, it isn't like you said.

I guess what I need to find out is if the Quad-core macs with minimal upgrades (RAM, SSD, affordable GPU) will not just be an "automatic" upgrade from my current MBP. But, something that can grow (without spending too much more) in the future, such as being able to edit RED RAW FILES, 4K and whathaveyou, even via proxy media or workflow conversions....

I guess, during the editing process, in real time, is what I am concerned about. Because I know my MBP cannot edit 4K in real time and is choppy as hell. I am wondering if a Quad-core Mac Pro with say, HD5770 can edit 4K files in FCPX without it being choppy. I guess proxy media can do that. But, I am talking about the 4K files from a prosumer or consumer camera, which I think is compressed and any decent PC should be able to handle it with ease, which my MBP being old and from 2010 (dual-core only with HT) cannot do without it being choppy.

What I'm saying is that you don't need to get a beast right away, but spend some time and effort looking for a good deal on an octa-core version with 2 CPUs. Quad-core is a bad investment. Then you need to a decent-sized SSD to put your footage, some RAM (16-32GB will be enough in the beginning). For GPU you can buy used R280x. In theory this should be enough, and you can probably do it all under $800.

 

[h9826790]

What I'm saying is that you don't need to get a beast right away, but spend some time and effort looking for a good deal on an octa-core version with 2 CPUs. Quad-core is a bad investment. Then you need to a decent-sized SSD to put your footage, some RAM (16-32GB will be enough in the beginning). For GPU you can buy used R280x. In theory this should be enough, and you can probably do it all under $800.

It was mentioned already, that with proxy you can edit 4K quite easily almost anywhere. Of course, you need to generate that proxy, and you still need to store it somewhere. I can preview 4K RAW files in FCPX without proxy in real time, but only until I add a NeatVideo and Filmconvert layer. Then I must prerender, otherwise it stops to a crawls on those scenes. But that's more of a workflow discussion.

As for MacPro, I strongly suggest not wasting money for single CPU version. Even top CPUs for that model (X5680, X5690) are quite old and they are comparatively slow in single thread operation. With upgrading MacPro to the max what you are doing is essentially bruteforcing your operations with 12 cores. So, if you want this machine to serve to you a few years, find an octacore one (this will 2x Quad CPUs). You can always upgrade CPUs later. But buying 2xCPU tray separately is a pain, they are rare and expensive.

I was monitoring eBay for a month, when a company in Boston apparently decided to sell their old computers. They've listed 6 almost identical MacPros, with only a couple of pictures and no description. The only piece of information they've provided was the serial number. Using it I found out that all models had 2xCPU. Eventually all sold in an area of $400-500.

As for m.2 SSD and 1500MB/s read speed, you can always add it later. You do need a decent-sized SSD in the machine for modern day operations, but regular 2.5" drive will do in the beginning (just need a proper sled or an adapter).

Some extra info to OP. if you consider the dual CPU model, it's definitely better to go for the real 5,1, but not a 4,1. The dual CPU 4,1 use lidless CPU, which may cause you trouble (or extra cost) on the CPU upgrade. However, dual CPU 5,1 usually cost quite a bit more than the 4,1. Also, the dual CPU model can only use X56xx CPU, which is usually more expensive then the W36xx CPU as well.

And since both single CPU 4,1 and 5,1 use normal CPU. So, for single CPU model, it's better to go for 4,1 because they are usually cheaper.

However, DanSolov is very right. Once you go for the Single, it's hard to upgrade to Dual (unless you buy another whole dual CPU Mac Pro). It's relatively very expensive to buy the dual processor CPU tray. Of course, that also means you can go for the Single now, and then buy the Dual, but sell the Single later on (if you want / need more then Hex cores in the future).

For SSD, and 2.5" SSD will work in the cMP, you don't even need an adaptor. Yes, the sequential speed will be limited to SATA2 speed, however, I can still edit 4K video without any issue (may be my 48G RAM helps). As long as you use proxy properly. expensive high performance SSD is not a requirement to edit 4K video. In fact, all my 4K video sources are stored on a HDD, and only the project / cache is on the 2.5" SSD which plunged into the native SATA 2 port.

That's good news because the RX460 is very affordable brand new. It's considerably much lower spec'ed than the RX470, though, which is also affordable at $200 brand new, which is known to be very good at "gaming," which this thread isn't about. But, to me, if a card is good at "gaming," I hear, it's also good at editing. Lol.

Anyway, I have been sort of internet-window shopping and 7950's and 680's are so overpriced right now. I had a GTX680 before I got a GTX970 and I regret selling it for $200. Lol.

But, it would be cool if one cool slap a RX470 or RX460 or even RX480 in the old classic Mac Pro's and leverage them for FCPX. And, perhaps, game on the side via bootcamp or something.

And NO, good for gaming is not necessary good for video editing. In fact, it's quite the opposite side in FCPX. Nvidia GPU always do better in gaming, but the same class AMD GPU always works better in FCPX. FCPX need high OpenCL performance GPU, but not OpenGL, DirectX, Metal...

If you already have a 970, then you don't need to buy any GPU. It's not the best card for FCPX, but sure powerful enough.

 

[namethisfile]

Some extra info to OP. if you consider the dual CPU model, it's definitely better to go for the real 5,1, but not a 4,1. The dual CPU 4,1 use lidless CPU, which may cause you trouble (or extra cost) on the CPU upgrade. However, dual CPU 5,1 usually cost quite a bit more than the 4,1. Also, the dual CPU model can only use X56xx CPU, which is usually more expensive then the W36xx CPU as well.

And since both single CPU 4,1 and 5,1 use normal CPU. So, for single CPU model, it's better to go for 4,1 because they are usually cheaper.

However, DanSolov is very right. Once you go for the Single, it's hard to upgrade to Dual (unless you buy another whole dual CPU Mac Pro). It's relatively very expensive to buy the dual processor CPU tray. Of course, that also means you can go for the Single now, and then buy the Dual, but sell the Single later on (if you want / need more then Hex cores in the future).

For SSD, and 2.5" SSD will work in the cMP, you don't even need an adaptor. Yes, the sequential speed will be limited to SATA2 speed, however, I can still edit 4K video without any issue (may be my 48G RAM helps). As long as you use proxy properly. expensive high performance SSD is not a requirement to edit 4K video. In fact, all my 4K video sources are stored on a HDD, and only the project / cache is on the 2.5" SSD which plunged into the native SATA 2 port



And NO, good for gaming is not necessary good for video editing. In fact, it's quite the opposite side in FCPX. Nvidia GPU always do better in gaming, but the same class AMD GPU always works better in FCPX. FCPX need high OpenCL performance GPU, but not OpenGL, DirectX, Metal...

If you already have a 970, then you don't need to buy any GPU. It's not the best card for FCPX, but sure powerful enough.

Cool. Thanks for delineating the two respective Mac Pro models. For someone on a budget, do you think a single trayed MP one will be "good" enough. Say, a quad-core Mac Pro with HD5770 or upgraded GPU like 280x or RX460?

I am not sure if I need dual cpu's for FCPX and Motion. Even, if I am dealing with 4K.

Does 4K RAW files, if ever I come across them, depend on CPU or GPU in FCPX workflow?

Also, thanks for letting me know that 2.5" SSD's are fast enough for 4K editing. I figured that they would be, even though, they will be limited to SATA2 speed.

PS--Yeah. I know about gaming GPU's and workstation cards. By gaming, I just mean, the ability to push pixels and thus the amount of silicon in the gpu. Such as the RX470, heralded as a great affordable gaming card, can be an awesome FCPX card on a mac if it is supported.

 

[DanSilov]

Cool. Thanks for delineating the two respective Mac Pro models. For someone on a budget, do you think a single trayed MP one will be "good" enough. Say, a quad-core Mac Pro with HD5770 or upgraded GPU like 280x or RX460?

I am not sure if I need dual cpu's for FCPX and Motion. Even, if I am dealing with 4K.

Does 4K RAW files, if ever I come across them, depend on CPU or GPU in FCPX workflow?

Also, thanks for letting me know that 2.5" SSD's are fast enough for 4K editing. I figured that they would be, even though, they will be limited to SATA2 speed.

PS--Yeah. I know about gaming GPU's and workstation cards. By gaming, I just mean, the ability to push pixels and thus the amount of silicon in the gpu. Such as the RX470, heralded as a great affordable gaming card, can be an awesome FCPX card on a mac if it is supported.

CPU power and number of cores both important during rendering and for general performance. macOS and FCPX are quite optimized to take advantage of CPU. I would say GPU is more important, but it's not used for everything, and CPU matters a lot. And old as those Xeons are, you need more cores to compensate for that.

You keep making a point, that you are on a budget, and while I certainly understand that, I don't understand why don't you at least try to look for a good deal. As I've said, it's possible to find dual CPU 4,1 in a range between $400 and $600 (tricky, but possible). Single CPU model will probably be between $300 and $500, which is not too drastic difference, in my opinion, considering you want something that will last.

If you're on a budget, then make it your goal to find the best possible hardware as cheap as possible. Set a limit and spend a couple of weeks monitoring eBay. If you don't find anything good, then you can consider simpler hardware options. But to start only with a weaker option in mind is a mistake, in my opinion.

 

[OS6-OSX]

So, A used mid-2010 Quad-core Mac Pro is like an upgrade path, for me, for the idea I have in mind, even though, it's an old computer.... Thanks!

Additional places to keep an eye on in case of "fire" sales if you continue the cMP route.
http://www.usedmacs.us/
https://www.powermax.com/productcategory/used-macs-mac-pro
http://www.macofalltrades.com/Refurbished-Used-Apple-Mac-Pros-s/298.htm
http://www.dvwarehouse.com/Apple-Mac-Pro-c-5210.html

Site for cMP info
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_pro/index-macpro.html
[doublepost=1474419721][/doublepost]

Interesting I've always wanted learn Avid because that's what the "professionals" use. What kind of setup do you have if I can ask. Does Avid have a preference?

Here is the link to the Avid Forums http://community.avid.com/forums/
Avid has Media Composer (editing app) for PC and Mac
Like Adobe and others they are now subscription!
My setup=MacPro 2008 3.1 | 26GB Ram | Quadro 4000 | MC8.4.4 | OS 10.8.5 10.10.5 | MOTU HDX-SDI | ATTO R644| LaCie 324
With the ATTO 8 drive RAID = 1436 Write 1076 Read
Make sure you read lots of threads on the AVID site because they are in a "strange" place in time.

 

[namethisfile]

Additional places to keep an eye on in case of "fire" sales if you continue the cMP route.
http://www.usedmacs.us/
https://www.powermax.com/productcategory/used-macs-mac-pro
http://www.macofalltrades.com/Refurbished-Used-Apple-Mac-Pros-s/298.htm
http://www.dvwarehouse.com/Apple-Mac-Pro-c-5210.html

Site for cMP info
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_pro/index-macpro.html
[doublepost=1474419721][/doublepost]
Here is the link to the Avid Forums http://community.avid.com/forums/
Avid has Media Composer (editing app) for PC and Mac
Like Adobe and others they are now subscription!
My setup=MacPro 2008 3.1 | 26GB Ram | Quadro 4000 | MC8.4.4 | OS 10.8.5 10.10.5 | MOTU HDX-SDI | ATTO R644| LaCie 324
With the ATTO 8 drive RAID = 1436 Write 1076 Read
Make sure you read lots of threads on the AVID site because they are in a "strange" place in time.

Cool. Thanks for those links. Yeah. So, undecided to invest in an a cMP due to the fact that the marketplace has gone away from FCPX. As is, I have a Windows 10 PC that should be capable as an AVID or Premiere workstation, should it be needed.

Does anyone have any experience buying cMP's from any of these sites? If, so, how was the buying experience? Like, did it ship on time? Does it come with somekind of return policy if the product is either DOA or stops working after a short period of time? And, in what quality are the used cMP's usually in?

Thanks!!!