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Is Mac Pro 2009 or 2010 still relevant as video editing machine?
- Thread starter namethisfile
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Well... I think Avid, if I am correct, has the same interface as the old Final Cut Pro 7. In that it has the classic old interface of Trimmer and Viewer, Your Bin window, and then your timeline below it. Sort of like, Premiere Pro of old, too, as well.
But, I don't know what the new Avid looks like now, though.
Looks familiar! Lol! Except, it's gone dark mode!
Is the system requirement for Avid the same as Premiere Pro or FCP X? Does it leverage GPU's for realtime editing?
IMO, no, you don't need it, but it's the preferred option.
If you look at my signature, that's my config right now. It's upgrade from a single Quad 2.66 GHz CPU 4,1. The only config that should not exist on a normal Mac Pro is the dual HD7950. However, back in the date when there was only one 7950, and with the W3520, I can still edit 4K video without any issue. So, I can confidence to say that it's not a requirement to have 12 cores (or dual CPU machine) to edit 4K video. But again, for little extra money, it's preferred.
A base line dual CPU Mac Pro come with 2x Quad 2.26 GHz CPU, that's equivalent to 18.08GHz in total (if all core can be pushed to 100%). And a single CPU 4,1 can be upgrade to 1x Hex 3.46GHz CPU, that equivalent to 20.76GHz. So, indeed, a maxed out single CPU 4,1 can be more powerful then the baseline dual 4,1 in both single core, and multi core performance. If you can only choose an upgrade single processor model, or the base line dual processor model, I will go for the single CPU one. However, the dual processor machine gives you the upgrade ability in the future, which the single CPU model cannot offer.
For computation, the 280X is actually much more powerful then the 460. So, I will prefer that. And it's known to be working so well in FCPX, there is not much reason to go for the 460 at this moment (apart from using significantly less power). However, Since the 460 is just a 75W graphic card, you can easily install the 2nd card when you need more GPU power. For 280X, it's much much harder to do that.
Anyway, for your reference, my 4,1 now can finish BruceX in 15 seconds. Which is just with single processor, and a SSD that plugged in to the SATA 2 port. GPU can accelerate the rendering, and only a powerful enough GPU can give you real time play back ability (this requirement can be lowed by using proxy). For encoding, apart from some very specific case, only CPU matters. So, technically a dual processors Mac Pro can finish the encoding job in half time that the single processor does. But for the editing part, a powerful GPU setup can let you do the job easily, no dual CPU required.
My 2010 Mac Pro is still quite capable.
Hey, I just finished doing 40 hours of 4K television on a D700 trash can and it was hell. The thing is barely capable and has all kinds of render problems in Davinci Resolve (thankfully, I found the Baselight plugin for Media Composer).
I work on crazy deadlines and can tell you point-blank that Premiere failed us right out of the gate. It's probably great for short projects without a lot of media to manage, but for television it wasn't a good choice. Mostly issues with media linking and render management.
Media Composer never failed me. Some people moan and whine about the dated GUI and the learning curve, but it's a tank. For the 40 hours I onlined, I also had to make multiple versions (XDCAM op1a, textless masters, PAL versions) and Media Composer (with the proper hardware) easily managed all this.
Back to the Mac Pro. Now that I've got time to stop, I'm ditching the trash can and bringing in my old 5,1 Mac Pro. Going to install a Titan X and bounce back between Resolve and Baselight.
If you're doing serious colour-grading, I can't recommend Baselight plugin enough. Amazing tools, including excellent tracking, stabilization, power windows, etc, etc. For like a thousand bucks.
Good luck!
EDIT: what I hate most about the trash can...the nest of cables you end up with and the inability to easily plug/unplug cables. I learned quickly to never touch a thunderbolt cable when I had a show open. Most times, it will tug a TB just enough to send all your devices offline. Not fun.
Hey, I just finished doing 40 hours of 4K television on a D700 trash can and it was hell. The thing is barely capable and has all kinds of render problems in Davinci Resolve (thankfully, I found the Baselight plugin for Media Composer).
I work on crazy deadlines and can tell you point-blank that Premiere failed us right out of the gate. It's probably great for short projects without a lot of media to manage, but for television it wasn't a good choice. Mostly issues with media linking and render management.
Media Composer never failed me. Some people moan and whine about the dated GUI and the learning curve, but it's a tank. For the 40 hours I onlined, I also had to make multiple versions (XDCAM op1a, textless masters, PAL versions) and Media Composer (with the proper hardware) easily managed all this.
Back to the Mac Pro. Now that I've got time to stop, I'm ditching the trash can and bringing in my old 5,1 Mac Pro. Going to install a Titan X and bounce back between Resolve and Baselight.
If you're doing serious colour-grading, I can't recommend Baselight plugin enough. Amazing tools, including excellent tracking, stabilization, power windows, etc, etc. For like a thousand bucks.
Good luck!
EDIT: what I hate most about the trash can...the nest of cables you end up with and the inability to easily plug/unplug cables. I learned quickly to never touch a thunderbolt cable when I had a show open. Most times, it will tug a TB just enough to send all your devices offline. Not fun.
Interesting. What about FCP X? I know Avid is a mainstay in the industry. And, I think, in some capacity, the old Final Cut Pro from 7 down... was also a mainstay for smaller TV companies. How is FCPX now in terms of dealing with the same workload you mentioned above?
Why didn't you try FCPX?
I don't know. I have never owned the nMP or cMP, for that matter. But, I thought, the nMP would be like a post-house's wet dream machine. It's small, mobile, 2 freakin' GPU's, and has fast thunderbolt connections for your disk I/O and video needs.... yeah... external thunderbolt devices are expensive for individuals. But, for a post-house? Ppl can just willy-nilly plug, unplug drives, move their nMP to another location, etc... without losing any time...
But, I digress...
I am still on the fence about getting a cMP.... there are like more modern Macs like iMacs and even MBP's that trounce it (at least for the Quad-core Mac Pro's that are within my budget). And, I am afraid of a desktop worksation being so stationarily heavier to move around... if and when I do need to move...
(sigh) decisions, decisions....
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Agreed 100% on this. In the pursuit of minimalist plugs, they forgot that professionals need a positively locking interface.
The look can be adjusted but I don't know anyone that's looks at a bright/light setup for hours on end.
MC does not use any CUDA cores. EFX on PC and Macs are now leveraged through the GPU. For years it was only on the PC side.
Trouncing may be in the "geekbench" numbers!
Read online about the iMac rendering files and overheating!
Pertaining to MBP's, if it's your only machine you can deal with 8TB-24TB of drive space with TB boxes. Then you say to yourself, "what speed do i get for what price and will it be enough"?
By the time you finish all of your research, the question of a 7,1 coming may be answered. This of course may or may not lower the cMP prices.
Read this blog https://fcpxpert.net, preferably from beginning. The guy is a professional editor in Hollywood, he used FCPX a lot and explains his workflow.
I also suggest taking a look at this YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/svenpape
The guy edits a feature film in FCPX and explains the process.
The point I've seen made by many editors is that you must not depend on the tool. Whether it's Premiere, Avid or FCPX, you as a professional should be able to pick any of those. You are not defined by the tools you use, but by your knoweldge and experience.
If you have the money for something new, then sure, sometimes it's better. According to Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/imac5k18.html) iMac 5k in full setup is a quite capable machine. But as you can see in those charts, cMP is still there, fighting quite capably, often beating the competition.
Here's another comparison: http://barefeats.com/tube16.html
pick up one with a slow cpu and replace it yourself (it's a lot cheaper), i got a 5.1 with the quad 2.8ghz chip and swapped it out with the 6core 3.33ghz chip ^^ so much faster and the price was ok
mac pro cpu info https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-pro-cpu-compatibility-list.1954766/
the 4c 3.46 X5677 is cheep
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-Xeo...279331?hash=item3d18fd9e23:g:RrwAAOSwv9hW6Hez
or the 3.2ghz 6core W3670 is also cheep
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INTEL-Xeo...608046?hash=item488dad92ae:g:Mo0AAOSwxehXO7CG
there the two best value cpu upgrades, it's easy to do and takes about 20 mins
it's so much cheaper to do it that way than buying one with a fast cpu.
for gpu something like a GTX670/760 are two of the cheapest and easiest nvidai GPU's to use or the new ATI cards if you can wait a bit and see how well they run. (they run on native drivers and are cheep on ebay the 680 is overpriced & the 770 is cheaper and faster than the 680 but if your on a budget might not be worth it)
if you are going to work in 4K then you may want a GPU with 4GB vram
the ATI card shude be faster but in the UK the older ones are overpriced and hard to find maybe the new RX 470/480 will be the new go to cards (the RX 460 may be to slow to be worth it)
i relay dont think you need 58GB of ram (unless it's cheep) iv got 32GB and run fine
this is the ram i got http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hynix-4x8...306819?hash=item54270b5483:g:jMMAAOSwIwhWTZm0
good price,
here's my thread when i got my 5.1 and upgraded it with links to parts etc https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/just-got-a-5-1-looking-for-ram-cpu-tips.1968018/ might help
if your just editing video only FCX relay uses the GPU premier CS6/CC dose not relay tax the GPU that much most the time but it dose use VRAM 2gb is recommended for 1080p 4GB for 4K (3GB may be ok)
CUDA is not relay a thing now looks like it's being phased out for video stuff
you want 1HD for media files 1HD for scratch 1HD to export to 1SSD/HD to run the OS from (i use a 250GB one in the bottom CD slot)
you may also want a USB3 card but that's up to you
id not get a dual cpu unless it's at a good price, the 4.1 dual cpu is a lot harder to upgrade the cpu so if you do get one try to get a 5.1 + the 4c 3.46 X5677 CPU is an amazing option for the dual cpu macpros
for final cut 7/X kenstone's site is worth a look http://kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/fcp_homepage_index.html
most the more recent imacs are still faster they may thermal throttle but even then there still faster
mac pro cpu info https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-pro-cpu-compatibility-list.1954766/
the 4c 3.46 X5677 is cheep
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-Xeo...279331?hash=item3d18fd9e23:g:RrwAAOSwv9hW6Hez
or the 3.2ghz 6core W3670 is also cheep
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INTEL-Xeo...608046?hash=item488dad92ae:g:Mo0AAOSwxehXO7CG
there the two best value cpu upgrades, it's easy to do and takes about 20 mins
it's so much cheaper to do it that way than buying one with a fast cpu.
for gpu something like a GTX670/760 are two of the cheapest and easiest nvidai GPU's to use or the new ATI cards if you can wait a bit and see how well they run. (they run on native drivers and are cheep on ebay the 680 is overpriced & the 770 is cheaper and faster than the 680 but if your on a budget might not be worth it)
if you are going to work in 4K then you may want a GPU with 4GB vram
the ATI card shude be faster but in the UK the older ones are overpriced and hard to find maybe the new RX 470/480 will be the new go to cards (the RX 460 may be to slow to be worth it)
i relay dont think you need 58GB of ram (unless it's cheep) iv got 32GB and run fine
this is the ram i got http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hynix-4x8...306819?hash=item54270b5483:g:jMMAAOSwIwhWTZm0
good price,
here's my thread when i got my 5.1 and upgraded it with links to parts etc https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/just-got-a-5-1-looking-for-ram-cpu-tips.1968018/ might help
if your just editing video only FCX relay uses the GPU premier CS6/CC dose not relay tax the GPU that much most the time but it dose use VRAM 2gb is recommended for 1080p 4GB for 4K (3GB may be ok)
CUDA is not relay a thing now looks like it's being phased out for video stuff
you want 1HD for media files 1HD for scratch 1HD to export to 1SSD/HD to run the OS from (i use a 250GB one in the bottom CD slot)
you may also want a USB3 card but that's up to you
id not get a dual cpu unless it's at a good price, the 4.1 dual cpu is a lot harder to upgrade the cpu so if you do get one try to get a 5.1 + the 4c 3.46 X5677 CPU is an amazing option for the dual cpu macpros
for final cut 7/X kenstone's site is worth a look http://kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/fcp_homepage_index.html
most the more recent imacs are still faster they may thermal throttle but even then there still faster
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I am a film editor and I can vote for a old 2010. My machine (SSD, gtx970, internal raid) is very capable. I'm currently editing a feature in Premiere, I have to say I realoy enjoy how fast the System is with it, but the UI holds for a few seconds everytime I make a cut which is making me nuts. Before this experience, I have only edited features on MC and it's rock solid. I also cannot recommend enough the baselight plugin, also the connect feature for Fusion, now BM as well.
To be honest, please don't fall on this trap of 4K. Edit in HD, and online only the bits on 4K that you need. This is a great workflow since you are a storyteller! not a finishing house. You should get around 20:1 (sometimes more) footage ratio and it gets really cumbersome without a offline workflow. My current feature has 90 hours of footage... so you get the idea.
FCP7 is still used by a lot of indie productions... very odd but still kicking. FCPX is a no go without tracks for audio, even tho they got labels, it's still too much hassle to export audio for the audio editor/mixer. Premiere is surprisingly good in audio dept, I would say better than MC. Also, my setup is always using my whole 16 threads, speccially in MC. Very good CPU usage.
To be honest, please don't fall on this trap of 4K. Edit in HD, and online only the bits on 4K that you need. This is a great workflow since you are a storyteller! not a finishing house. You should get around 20:1 (sometimes more) footage ratio and it gets really cumbersome without a offline workflow. My current feature has 90 hours of footage... so you get the idea.
FCP7 is still used by a lot of indie productions... very odd but still kicking. FCPX is a no go without tracks for audio, even tho they got labels, it's still too much hassle to export audio for the audio editor/mixer. Premiere is surprisingly good in audio dept, I would say better than MC. Also, my setup is always using my whole 16 threads, speccially in MC. Very good CPU usage.
yep FC7 is still used by a lot of professionals as well as indie people still, it works it's stable and dose 99% of what you want. software is not cheep so if it works, hay stick with it.
i think my problem with the cmp is not that it will not work it's that for the cost to pick one up then upgrade/buy parts you can get a faster new windows box/hackbox or even faster used windows/hack box.
i think my problem with the cmp is not that it will not work it's that for the cost to pick one up then upgrade/buy parts you can get a faster new windows box/hackbox or even faster used windows/hack box.
Yes. These were my choices: hackintosh, new mac mini (2017, if it comes out), or used cMP. I basically had a budget of around $700, more or less. I also looked at used iMacs and found a couple fast 27" i5 iMacs with GT 755m under $800. And, they came with 7200rpm HDD's. I almost pulled the trigger. But, decided to go with a six-core 5,1 2010 Mac Pro, I found at around this price, from iPowerResale on eBay.
I use FCPX and Motion5. So, I am hoping that this machine will serve me well. At least, I can advertise myself as a "real" FCPX editor now since I have a proper workstation. Or, in the very least, I don't have to worry about whether or not my mid-2010 15" MBP is powerful enough for prospective editing jobs...
Anyone ever dealt with iPower Resale? They had the least expensive 6-core I found in very good condition, according to the description that I could find on the internet. It also came with 16 GB of RAM, which is nice since others make you pay extra to upgrade the RAM. And, I really wanted to get the RAM up to 16 GB from the get go, since RAM for the cMP are not easy to find...
So, thanks everyone for the inputs. Says my cMP should arrive next week. So, very excited! This will be my very first real Mac Pro.
I hackintosh my PC a couple of years ago when I still had a GTX 680 and it was nice and fast. And, I could have gone with it. But, I decided not to troubleshoot it one day when I upgraded OS X at the time, and the hackintosh was stuck in the verbose boot sequence. I threw up my hands and decided to just make it a windows gaming machine. I then sold my GTX680 for a GTX970. And, for some reason, when I tried to hackintosh the same PC a couple of months ago, I could not troubleshoot it to work again. Oh, well.
So, yeah. I think, a real Mac Pro is better for me, especially, if I want to edit other people's videos. Or, even my own, for that matter.
Will update next week when I get my Mac Pro 5,1 and write down what I think of it.
are you not willing to do the cpu upgrade yourself? it tends to be cheaper that way
rams fairly cheep on ebay so id buy it from there as upgrades tend to cost to much (32gb is about £50 UK)
are you going to have to buy a gpu?
if your total budget is $700 American it may still be tight once you add in a SSD & two HD's (i use WD black)
ps lots of people sell 4.1's that have been flashed to a 5.1 as a macpro 5.1 worth checking the lable on the back to see what the original model is
no need to feel bad about using a laptop to edit video i know pros that do it, nice big display at home with some fast drives & on the move you can still to quick edits on site and dump cameras
rams fairly cheep on ebay so id buy it from there as upgrades tend to cost to much (32gb is about £50 UK)
are you going to have to buy a gpu?
if your total budget is $700 American it may still be tight once you add in a SSD & two HD's (i use WD black)
ps lots of people sell 4.1's that have been flashed to a 5.1 as a macpro 5.1 worth checking the lable on the back to see what the original model is
no need to feel bad about using a laptop to edit video i know pros that do it, nice big display at home with some fast drives & on the move you can still to quick edits on site and dump cameras
I am familiar with PC's (been computin' since 1991 386sx PC, I upgraded with a Cyrix 386 cpu, if i remember correctly). So, I am not adverse to upgrading the cpu myself. As I said in my post above, I pulled the trigger on a 3.3 GHz, six-core 5,1 cMP (16GB RAM, 1TB 7200rpm HDD, HD5770, etc) from eBay already. It says that it is a 5,1 Mid-2010 model. So... hopefully, when the machine arrives next week that it will be as advertised. If, not, they do have a return policy and I think the system has a limited amount of warranty. 90 days, I think.
Anyway, the main reason that I didn't wanna deal with getting a 4,1 and then flashing it to a 5,1 and then upgrading the cpu, myself, is that I am lazy. Just kidding. Or, half-kidding, anyway. But, really, when I did the quick math in my head, for prices of 4,1 machines I saw on the internet and then adding the price for a cpu upgrade, the price comes out the same, anyway.
Also, some 4,1 machines don't come with airport card, for some reason.
And so, since this will be my first Mac Pro, I wanted the 5,1 one. And, getting the earlier ones and doing all those steps was too much at once, I think, for me to tackle at this time, if that makes sense.
There are some great threads on here regarding upgrading various components of the cMP. If you're looking for a MacNN-style series of articles, check out this index of posts on upgrading the cMP: http://pindelski.org/Photography/technical/mac-pro/. Of course, keep in mind the date each post was written when looking at prices, etc. The main area where there has been recent advancement in the cMP arena that may not be covered in these articles is in solid state storage.
Hey guys,
Thought I'd update y'all.
The Mac Pro just arrived today! 3.33Ghz 6-core, Mid-2010, 16GB RAM, HD5770 GPU and I added an SSD OS drive and an SSD scratch drive...
The Mac Pro has scuffs, scrapes, but no dents. So, it's in okay shape.
I did have a scary moment though when I first booted it up. NO VIDEO on my display when I had it connected using DVI to DVI. The MP was on and humming and the HDD that came with the MP was making a racket. After some troubleshooting, including switching out HDD's (I had a spare HDD with El Capitan on it)... I started to switch video cables. At first I put a DVI to miniDP adapter (Apple Brand) and used the mDP connection on the HD5770 card. No go. Then, what worked was using a DP cable that I had laying around and used a DP to miniDP adapter to connect to the MP. It worked!!!!
So, I'm so glad I didn't have to go through the hassle of calling and/or shipping the whole thing back!
The only upgrade I can foresee in the future is the GPU. Hoping Apple will support the new Polaris GPU's from AMD since they are inexpensive.
And, here are some pics:
Thought I'd update y'all.
The Mac Pro just arrived today! 3.33Ghz 6-core, Mid-2010, 16GB RAM, HD5770 GPU and I added an SSD OS drive and an SSD scratch drive...
The Mac Pro has scuffs, scrapes, but no dents. So, it's in okay shape.
I did have a scary moment though when I first booted it up. NO VIDEO on my display when I had it connected using DVI to DVI. The MP was on and humming and the HDD that came with the MP was making a racket. After some troubleshooting, including switching out HDD's (I had a spare HDD with El Capitan on it)... I started to switch video cables. At first I put a DVI to miniDP adapter (Apple Brand) and used the mDP connection on the HD5770 card. No go. Then, what worked was using a DP cable that I had laying around and used a DP to miniDP adapter to connect to the MP. It worked!!!!
So, I'm so glad I didn't have to go through the hassle of calling and/or shipping the whole thing back!
The only upgrade I can foresee in the future is the GPU. Hoping Apple will support the new Polaris GPU's from AMD since they are inexpensive.
And, here are some pics:
In this post, I was wrestling with whether to upgrade my mac pro 2009. Well, I put in a bid on a mac pro 2012 and just won it, so gonna sell my 2009 and upgrade the cpu in this one just like I did in my 2010. $800 before shipping. I will order another hex w3680 for $175 and off to the races. I suppose this will become the alpha dog of the pack--my wife gets the lesser one, and uses it very little.
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If, I were you, I would keep the 2009. There is no point of getting another 2010 MP, if you already have one. And, like, you said, you could mess around with the 2009 one by flashing it to 5,1 and finding deals online for dual CPU's, etc....
In this post, I was wrestling with whether to upgrade my mac pro 2009. Well, I put in a bid on a mac pro 2012 and just won it, so gonna sell my 2009 and upgrade the cpu in this one just like I did in my 2010. $800 before shipping. I will order another hex w3680 for $175 and off to the races. I suppose this will become the alpha dog of the pack--my wife gets the lesser one, and uses it very little.
Just in case, 2009 is completely identical hardware-wise to 2010 or 2012. But dual CPU is really something, as it's essentially doubles your performance in many applications, which is crucial for such old Xeons.
Thanks for the thoughts folks, your advice came after I bought a 2012 on ebay. As I mentioned in another thread, I was so impressed with the elegant over-engineering of the cMP when I recently took it apart and updated the cpu, that I decided to get a spare and see how many years I can nurse them along, leaving hackintosh thoughts for another day.
It may be irrational, but I just love the idea of ECC ram and xeon processors.
PS. Not interested in a trash can, not even a new way faster yet to be announced 1026 trash can--for my needs not helpful.
PPS. Got to thinking--I recall the 'free' version of vmware 6.0 used to install very nicely on a mac pro... That might be a nice use of those dual quads in my cMP 2009... I should try it again to see if I still have the install media.
It may be irrational, but I just love the idea of ECC ram and xeon processors.
PS. Not interested in a trash can, not even a new way faster yet to be announced 1026 trash can--for my needs not helpful.
PPS. Got to thinking--I recall the 'free' version of vmware 6.0 used to install very nicely on a mac pro... That might be a nice use of those dual quads in my cMP 2009... I should try it again to see if I still have the install media.
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