Is nMP processor changable?

[flat five]

Oi vey. Do you seriously not understand? This is a simple, straightforward matter.

No, because Apple explicitly states RAM is user serviceable and provides instructions on how to change it. Hence, it is not a modification under the terms of the warranty.

so if i look at the warranty agreement as a means to figure out what may/may not void my warranty, then i'm also required to read the user manual because some of the warranty info is included there instead of in the actual warranty agreement?

is that what you're saying?

(and, by the way, neither of those two documents ever say you can't swap parts without voiding the warranty.. i mean, if you weren't allowed to swap parts and maintain the warranty then it would explicitly say "if you change (this part), your warranty is voided"..

the reason it doesn't say that is because of how ridiculous (and illegal) it would be for apple to no longer cover a faulty GPU because the user put in a different airport module..

why you insist on thinking that apple can write whatever they want in an agreement and that writing holds true is beyond me.. further, why you insist the language they have written actually says if i change a cpu then no other parts of the computer are covered by the warranty-- is also beyond me.. they never wrote that anywhere.

 

[Naimfan]

so if i look at the warranty agreement as a means to figure out what may/may not void my warranty, then i'm also required to read the user manual because some of the warranty info is included there instead of in the actual warranty agreement?

is that what you're saying?

Yes, because Apple (and just about every other company) incorporates a variety of documents as part of the limited warranty. Your use of whatever the device is constitutes your acceptance of those terms.

Ever read the entire warranty? Of course not. The following might be of interest:

Apple Inc. of One Infinite Loop, Cupertino, California 95014, U.S.A. (“Apple”) warrants the Apple-branded hardware product and accessories contained in the original packaging (“Apple Product”) against defects in materials and workmanship when used normally in accordance with Apple's published guidelines for a period of ONE (1) YEAR from the date of original retail purchase by the end-user purchaser ("Warranty Period"). Apple’s published guidelines include but are not limited to information contained in technical specifications, user manuals and service communications.

Still haven't made it to law school, eh? In the real world, it helps to read ALL the documents referenced in the warranty of a product. If you had, you wouldn't be asking the questions you have been.

----------

so if i look at the warranty agreement as a means to figure out what may/may not void my warranty, then i'm also required to read the user manual because some of the warranty info is included there instead of in the actual warranty agreement?

is that what you're saying?

(and, by the way, neither of those two documents ever say you can't swap parts without voiding the warranty.. i mean, if you weren't allowed to swap parts and maintain the warranty then it would explicitly say "if you change (this part), your warranty is voided"..

the reason it doesn't say that is because of how ridiculous (and illegal) it would be for apple to no longer cover a faulty GPU because the user put in a different airport module..

why you insist on thinking that apple can write whatever they want in an agreement and that writing holds true is beyond me.. further, why you insist the language they have written actually says if i change a cpu then no other parts of the computer are covered by the warranty-- is also beyond me.. they never wrote that anywhere.

Clearly you need a course in reading comprehension.

Go read the exclusion section of the MP warranty, specifically clause (g). If that doesn't explain it, you're just being willfully ignorant.

 

[flat five]

Yes, because Apple (and just about every other company) incorporates a variety of documents as part of the limited warranty. Your use of whatever the device is constitutes your acceptance of those terms.

Ever read the entire warranty? Of course not. The following might be of interest:

Apple Inc. of One Infinite Loop, Cupertino, California 95014, U.S.A. (“Apple”) warrants the Apple-branded hardware product and accessories contained in the original packaging (“Apple Product”) against defects in materials and workmanship when used normally in accordance with Apple's published guidelines for a period of ONE (1) YEAR from the date of original retail purchase by the end-user purchaser ("Warranty Period"). Apple’s published guidelines include but are not limited to information contained in technical specifications, user manuals and service communications.

Still haven't made it to law school, eh? In the real world, it helps to read ALL the documents referenced in the warranty of a product. If you had, you wouldn't be asking the questions you have been.

wake up dude.. you have rights as a consumer but you (and plenty of others) are simply bowing down and taking in the backside from the corporatocracy..
you're saying "such and such is clearly written in the warranty agreement" in order to back up your submissive stance.. i'm telling you "no, it doesn't say that in these documents" because it doesn't..

the problem is, you're so stuck on the "you're stupid because i went to law school" that you won't even stop to consider what i'm saying is true..
as in- everything i'm saying is automatically wrong since it's different than what you originally said.. it really makes no sense for me to even discuss this with you because you're not even listening to me or considering the possibility that you may be wrong.

----------

you're just being willfully ignorant.

if that's how you want to call it then fine..
likewise, i can say you're willfully giving up your rights as a consumer and probably in many other areas.. just like everybody else.. we, as a whole, get super ripped off because well, we let it happen (and in situations like this topic- not only are we letting it happen, we're supporting it)

 

[Naimfan]

wake up dude.. you have rights as a consumer but you (and plenty of others) are simply bowing down and taking in the backside from the corporatocracy..
you're saying "such and such is clearly written in the warranty agreement" in order to back up your submissive stance.. i'm telling you "no, it doesn't say that in these documents" because it doesn't..

the problem is, you're so stuck on the "you're stupid because i went to law school" that you won't even stop to consider what i'm saying is true..
as in- everything i'm saying is automatically wrong since it's different than what you originally said.. it really makes no sense for me to even discuss this with you because you're not even listening to me or considering the possibility that you may be wrong.

----------



if that's how you want to call it then fine..
likewise, i can say you're willfully giving up your rights as a consumer and probably in many other areas.. just like everybody else..

Ha.

This is why I don't do "retail" law - people think they have a clue when they are 180 degrees wrong - just as you are here.

You agree to all the terms of a warranty when you use a product. Provided nothing in the warranty is contrary to existing law or public policy, the warranty is valid, including the terms by which a warranty claim may be denied. Apple's limited warranty is squarely within applicable law. You are of course welcome to do whatever you'd like to an Apple product, but Apple is well within its rights to refuse a warranty claim if you've done something that Apple has given notice may result in their denying a warranty claim.

The problem here is that you simply don't understand how warranties and warranty law work, and apparently refuse to even attempt to understand. Walk in to an arbitration proceeding on a warranty claim where you have "upgraded" the processor on a Mac Pro and Apple has then refused your warranty claim. You will lose. Every time. And also note you can't run to court - you agree to use binding arbitration as one of the terms of use. You can only go to court to challenge the arbitrator's final decision if the process runs afoul of the AAA standards.

In the US, your warranty "rights" are clear. That you choose to not educate yourself on what those are is your own choice.

 

[antonis]

i guess your and my idea of 'very clear' are very different:



Do Not Make Repairs Yourself
Don’t open your Mac Pro except to install memory and solid
state drives (SSD), and don’t attempt to repair your Mac Pro
by yourself. Your Mac Pro doesn’t have any user-serviceable
parts, except for memory and SSDs. Please follow instructions
provided by Apple in memory and SSD kits. If your Mac Pro
needs service, contact an Apple Authorized Service Provider
or Apple for service.
If you open your Mac Pro or install items other than memory
and SSDs, you risk damaging your equipment. Such damage
isn’t covered by the limited warranty on your Mac Pro.



if it very clearly stated "if you repair or replace a part other than ram or ssd then your warranty is voided" then it would say so.. the only thing that it clearly states in regards to the warranty is if you damage your equipment then that damage isn't covered.

I guess it is, yes. Agreeing and comprehending is 2 totally different things. I don't agree or settle with this, but I can see what it means. I would be very nervous if I'd changed a non-user-upgradable component (that is anything except ram) within a very expensive machine (e.g. nMP). Especially since Apple says they'll consider the warranty as voided.

When the next problem happens, I'd have to convince the official service - somehow - that they should consider the warranty valid. Although I agree as a free-thinking customer with your arguments whether this should void the warranty or not, I think it boils down to that I'd take a big risk to be left without support on such an expensive machine.

 

[g4cube]

Forget what is online on a blog or forum or what you learn via the phone.

The only warranty that is valid is the one that is provided by a company in writing.

If you would ever need to make a claim, the default is consumer law in combination with what is provided in writing by the company.

If you pay by credit card, you may have some additional provisions.

If you want to entertin yourself, read a software license. Most essentially say that the software is provided as-is, and maynot even do what you expect it to do.

 

[Cubemmal]

OMG.

The question, if we dare grace it with the term, was whether changing RAM voided the warranty. Provided the use of appropriate RAM, and proper installation, it does not.

How did your statement contribute to answering that question?

I'm agreeing, and further saying that it's documented as such.

Sigh .....

 

[flat five]

The only warranty that is valid is the one that is provided by a company in writing.

that's not necessarily true.. legally binding agreements get fought, and overruled all the time.. regardless, that's not even the point of what i'm saying.. the main thing i'm saying is that apple's warranty does not clearly state what many of you all are saying.. further, it's arguable that the warranty doesn't even imply what you all are saying.

you (in general) are very clearly telling me "if i change a cpu in a nmp then my warranty is void"

that's plain english and i, without a doubt, understand what you're saying..
likewise, i'm saying the warranty does not say that and you can swap a part and maintain coverage.

based on that conflict alone, it should be clear that the warranty doesn't plainly state what a user may or may not do to an apple product in regards to the warranty agreement.


but, instead of you all considering that what i'm saying has ground, it's automatically "no, it clearly states this and you're just stupid"

well.. ok then.. i'm just stupid
thanks for making me see my problem in reading comprehension

 

[g4cube]

Not saying anyone is stupid.

If you have the resources to fight for a remedy, then go for it.

I know my pockets aren't deep enough to challenge a ruling that goes against my interpretation. And I'm not about to make a class action or federal case about anything written here.

I view things objectively. The computer may work fine after an upgrade.

If a problem arises afterwards, a company might look more closely and investigate. They may suspect an unapproved modification to the product, or they could look the other way. The controlling factors are consumer law, the written warranty, and the company's discretion.

Last would be what the customer might want.

Of course, all this is all speculation by a group of anonymous commentators to a public forum.

 

[flat five]

Not saying anyone is stupid.

If you have the resources to fight for a remedy, then go for it.

hmm.. seems like you're saying "apple won't honor a warranty if a computer has been upgraded and if you want to fight that-- go ahead and do it"

but that's not even what i'm saying-- that's like us agreeing that apple will void the warranty based on what we read in the documents.. but what i'm really saying is that the documents don't say this in the first place.. again, using the manual (which is also part of the warranty agreement according to the smart lawyer in the thread),

Do Not Make Repairs Yourself
Don’t open your Mac Pro except to install memory and solid
state drives (SSD), and don’t attempt to repair your Mac Pro
by yourself. Your Mac Pro doesn’t have any user-serviceable
parts, except for memory and SSDs. Please follow instructions
provided by Apple in memory and SSD kits. If your Mac Pro
needs service, contact an Apple Authorized Service Provider
or Apple for service.
If you open your Mac Pro or install items other than memory
and SSDs, you risk damaging your equipment. Such damage
isn’t covered by the limited warranty on your Mac Pro.

if that says "change something other than ram or ssd and you void your warranty" then this:

car manual
- only operate at safe driving speeds within posted speed limit
- do not drive drunk
- wear your seat belt
- if you speed, you risk crashing your car
- if you crash your car, that damage won't be covered by the warranty

...so, using your logic (not necessarily you specifically)... if i drive drunk then my warranty is void.

do you see the connection i'm trying to make?

 

[Naimfan]

the main thing i'm saying is that apple's warranty does not clearly state what many of you all are saying.. further, it's arguable that the warranty doesn't even imply what you all are saying.

No, it isn't. That's a fact - meaning it is not reasonably susceptible to dispute.

you (in general) are very clearly telling me "if i change a cpu in a nmp then my warranty is void"

that's plain english and i, without a doubt, understand what you're saying..
likewise, i'm saying the warranty does not say that and you can swap a part and maintain coverage.

You're simply wrong. Your willful ignorance of the warranty terms does not, contrary to what you may believe, create a dispute over what it means.

Yes, if you change the CPU in a nMP, the warranty is voided (at Apple's discretion) - or, the warranty no longer applies, if you prefer that language.

based on that conflict alone, it should be clear that the warranty doesn't plainly state what a user may or may not do to an apple product in regards to the warranty agreement.

Only because you insist on continuing your willful ignorance and selective reading.

but, instead of you all considering that what i'm saying has ground, it's automatically "no, it clearly states this and you're just stupid"

well.. ok then.. i'm just stupid
thanks for making me see my problem in reading comprehension

I hope you're better at whatever you're studying then you are at understanding a very basic legal concept.

 

[flat five]

I hope you're better at whatever you're studying then you are at understanding a very basic legal concept.

and i hope you understand that when every single post you make at me, in this thread and others.. in which you constantly point out my ignorance, stupidity, & inability to read coupled with how smart you are, how superior you are to most since you finished law school, yadayadayada..

is very telling indeed.. problem is, i don't think you actually see what it's telling so keep on keepin on #

(but just a word of advice- even if you don't understand the reasoning.. quit doing that because it makes you look like an insecure idiot)

----------

seriously, you're not even arguing me or showing me that you have a point of view and certainly not showing that you're trying to understand my point of view (which is required for a decent conversation)

all you're saying is "you're wrong and i'm smart".. so what, you know? that's just empty talk..

----------

so either A) change your attitude and show me that you're actually trying to converse.. or B) just keep doing what you're doing and i'll just quit talking to you.

 

[Naimfan]

and i hope you understand that when every single post you make at me, in this thread and others.. in which you constantly point out my ignorance, stupidity, & inability to read coupled with how smart you are, how superior you are to most since you finished law school, yadayadayada..

is very telling indeed.. problem is, i don't think you actually see what it's telling so keep on keepin on #

(but just a word of advice- even if you don't understand the reasoning.. quit doing that because it makes you look like an insecure idiot)

----------

seriously, you're not even arguing me or showing me that you have a point of view and certainly not showing that you're trying to understand my point of view (which is required for a decent conversation)

all you're saying is "you're wrong and i'm smart".. so what, you know? that's just empty talk..

----------

so either A) change your attitude and show me that you're actually trying to converse.. or B) just keep doing what you're doing and i'll just quit talking to you.

Thank you for the advice and the surrender.

What you're missing is that there's no room for a "conversation" on the topic - it's a well-settled question.

 

[flat five]

@anybody else who might be interested

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

some clips of note:

• the Magnuson–Moss act was enacted by Congress in response to the widespread misuse by merchants of express warranties and disclaimers

• The Act provides that any warrantor warranting a consumer product to a consumer by means of a written warranty must disclose, fully and conspicuously, in simple and readily understood language

• Under the terms of the Act, ambiguous statements in a warranty are construed against the drafter of the warranty.

• Likewise, service contracts must fully, clearly, and conspicuously disclose their terms and conditions in simple and readily understood language.

• Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty. This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions, and is frequently mentioned in the context of third-party computer parts, such as memory and hard drives.

 

[Riwam]

I do not envy you if you want to battle against Apple

@anybody else who might be interested

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

some clips of note:

• the Magnuson–Moss act was enacted by Congress in response to the widespread misuse by merchants of express warranties and disclaimers

• The Act provides that any warrantor warranting a consumer product to a consumer by means of a written warranty must disclose, fully and conspicuously, in simple and readily understood language

• Under the terms of the Act, ambiguous statements in a warranty are construed against the drafter of the warranty.

• Likewise, service contracts must fully, clearly, and conspicuously disclose their terms and conditions in simple and readily understood language.

• Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty. This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions, and is frequently mentioned in the context of third-party computer parts, such as memory and hard drives.

.........................................
I am not a lawyer and try to understand this matter using (my amount of) common sense.
What this above stated legal decision means in my humble opinion is simply that commonly available, easily exchangeable standard parts can be used and mounted by the customer even if bought from another supplier than the manufacturer.
Therefore you can add or exchange RAM in any nMP without voiding the warranty for all other parts, besides the self bought RAM, which will NOT be covered by the computer's manufacturer.

The change of a HD or a SSD Drive applies to standard ones and the nMP has no standard SSD Drive but a very special one with a special connector.
Therefore in the special case of a nMP just RAM is considered user upgradable, not the SSD, and this is common sense.

Any change of SPECIAL and ESSENTIAL parts of a computer as a CPU, has in one way or another evident consequences in the whole computer and could cause for instance over heating or many other problems not possible to assess in advance at the moment of the modification.
To believe that Apple will blindly in any case repair such a modified computer is being over optimistic or if you prefer very naïve.

You may print in a 2 meter long banner all the words of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and come with your not working nMP modified by a third part not agreed by Apple to Apple Service to try to FORCE them to ignore all the possible consequences of that modification which might be in one way or another connected to the problem of the computer and to FORCE them to repair free of charge any not working part of your nMP.

I can only wish you good luck in that task..
Your lawyers will cost you much more than the worth of several nMPs and the result of such a battle, which might take a very long time, is more than uncertain.

If you truly decide to have the CPU of your nMP replaced by a third part non agreed by Apple, you should better study in detail the coverage clauses and exclusions provided by THAT company, instead of pretending that Apple will be successfully forced by you and your view of the rights of the consumer in the USA, to do whatever you want them to do.

This is just an opinion of a non lawyer and relies on (my humble) common sense.
Take it or leave it, as you wish...
I am personally not concerned at all.
I am not in the USA and the coverage of Apple is an international one, which is what I need and can use.

 

[flat five]

hmm. I think you're missing the point in what I'm saying.. apple ISNT breaking the law and/or writing their warranty against what is stated in the Magnuson-Moss act.

its just that nowhere are they writing that you can't swap parts while maintaining your warranty.. if they did say that in the warranty or if it were apple policy, you could easily quote the portion of the agreement which says "your warranty will be voided if you replace a part other than ram or ssd"

they just aren't saying that at all and if they were, they'd be required by law to say it very clearly and precisely.


the law does not require them to say "you can replace parts and maintain warranty" nor does it penalize for writing ambiguous statements which may confuse some readers of the warranty into thinking they can't replace parts.

such is the case with the blurb from the manual-- it VERY clearly states if you personally damage the computer then it won't be covered under warranty.. and that is the ONLY thing it says regarding warranty.. the fact that the statement is included amongst other, non-warranty warnings will lead to confusion in some readers (as is obvious in these threads) but legally, apple has done nothing wrong.. (morally? yeah, but morals don't matter to corporations )

 

[jenzjen]

hmm. I think you're missing the point

I get your points, as painful as they may be but you're missing the larger and more important practical matter. Let's assume you're completely right, Apple is liable due to ambiguity in the contract. Are you going to fork over the tens of thousands maybe more to litigate this against Apple? If not, your argument while academically correct is practically worthless.

 

[flat five]

I get your points, as painful as they may be but you're missing the larger and more important practical matter. Let's assume you're completely right, Apple is liable due to ambiguity in the contract. Are you going to fork over the tens of thousands maybe more to litigate this against Apple? If not, your argument while academically correct is practically worthless.

huh? litigate what? I take the computer with a faulty part to the shop and they fix it.

not sure why you think the courts and/or $10000+ would be involved.
?

 

[flat five]

fwiw, i think it's becoming all too clear that nobody in these threads besides myself has any real world experience in the matter.. if you have, please share your experience.. i said it in a past thread but i'll say it again here..

i have a mbp in which, while under applecare, i replaced the hard drive with an ssd then took out the dvd drive and put the original hard drive in it's place..

the following year, the battery wasn't holding it's charge so i took it to apple and they replaced it at no additional charge.. the drives never even came up in the whole ordeal..

but you guys keep talking about voided warranties and going to court and litigation and all this other nonsense.. where, exactly, are you getting this information?
(please answer because i highly suspect you're just making it up - pulling it out of thin air -- based on, well, nothing)

 

[Naimfan]

fwiw, i think it's becoming all too clear that nobody in these threads besides myself has any real world experience in the matter..)

Kid, seriously - why is this so hard for you to understand?

Your one anecdotal experience is irrelevant - you might have had something if you had "upgraded" the CPU in your MBP.

In any event, hopefully people who were considering the OWC option will reconsider, or at least understand they'll be foregoing their Apple warranty.

 

[flat five]

Your one anecdotal experience is irrelevant - you might have had something if you had "upgraded" the CPU in your MBP.

why is that different or 'worse'?
from my pov at least, what i did to the laptop was much more of a modification than swapping a cpu.

so what happens in this scenario:

i buy a quad nmp then replace the cpu with another E5-1620..

is my warranty voided after that? has the product been "modified to alter functionality or capability" and/or damaged?


i take it you're saying that in this case, my warranty would not be voided since i've not violated anything in your educated interpretation of the warranty clause nor the user manual?

is that correct? or are you saying my warranty is still voided in this scenario?

or- are you saying that only if a user 'upgrades' a part will the warranty void and sidegrades are ok?

 

[Weaselboy]

fwiw, i think it's becoming all too clear that nobody in these threads besides myself has any real world experience in the matter.. if you have, please share your experience.. i said it in a past thread but i'll say it again here...

I have been following the thread a bit and I agree with your take on this and I also agree Magnuson-Moss applies. I think this OWC upgrade will complicate warranty work, but I part ways with others here when I see the phrase "automatically voids" your warranty.

Let me give you an example I am familiar with. I own a car with a turbocharged engine. There are companies that have reverse engineered the main engine management controller to boost power output. If you install that after market controller and your engine starts misfiring, the auto dealer will very likely blame the aftermarket controller and refuse to try and fix your car. Fair enough.

But if I bring the same car in and my windshield wiper motor has failed, the dealer will fix it without issue. They are not going to say my warranty is "automatically void" because I installed an after market engine controller.

This is the same way I see the CPU upgrade. If you do this and take your MacPro in because it is crashing, Apple will very likely say it is because of your CPU upgrade and refuse to help you with this issue. Take the same machine in with a noisy bearing in that top fan, and I suspect Apple will not care you have upgraded the CPU as that likely has no impact on the fan bearing... and they would replace your fan. So your warranty is not "void."

To me "automatically void" implies the entire warranty on anything ever on the entire machine is void, and that is not the case. The example you gave with the OptiBay is on point. If Apple does not think your mod is what broke the battery, they don't care.

The car analogy I gave is a little more clear cut because one can more easily isolate cause and effect from issues caused by the mod.

I guess to sum it up... I disagree this mod automatically voids your MacPro warranty, but it sure has the potential for putting you in a bad spot if Apple blames your warranty issue on this CPU upgrade.

 

[flat five]

Let me give you an example I am familiar with. I own a car with a turbocharged engine. There are companies that have reverse engineered the main engine management controller to boost power output. If you install that after market controller and your engine starts misfiring, the auto dealer will very likely blame the aftermarket controller and refuse to try and fix your car. Fair enough.

But if I bring the same car in and my windshield wiper motor has failed, the dealer will fix it without issue. They are not going to say my warranty is "automatically void" because I installed an after market engine controller.

right. exactly

 

[Brian Y]

Oh my god. The amount of drivel in this thread is ridiculous.

From someone who has experience on the matter, if you install your own CPUs:

- Apple probably won't refuse to repair a faulty PSU
- Apple probably won't refuse to repair your faulty (Apple Supplied) RAM
- Apple probably won't refuse to repair your <Insert part not directly related to CPU component> under warranty

- Apple probably will refuse to repair the logic board, etc, under warranty.

All that said - note the probability on all statements. The person who has the final say is the technician on the day. If they feel that you've caused damage whilst fitting the CPUs, then they can and will refuse service. If they're (read: You're nice to them) nice, they may overlook it. If you go in there like an ******* saying they're accusing you of breaking it, you'll get denied, 100%. It all depends on what happens on the day.

If they do however refuse, there's not much you can do to prove otherwise. Unless you can prove you didn't damage it, they're perfectly within their right to refuse warranty service. And how exactly would you go about proving that you didn't damage it? How could you prove you were properly earthed and didn't cause any ESD damage, or that you didn't mishandle components, or didn't short something out? It's very difficult, if not impossible.

And to the car example with drink driving - that's a very poor example. How about this, more realistic one. You buy a car. Remap the engine, and fit a bigger turbocharger. Then the head gasket blows. Would you expect the manufacturer to repair it under warranty? How about a faulty wing mirror?

Come on MacRumors, can we please apply some common sense to this thread?

 

[flat five]

Come on MacRumors, can we please apply some common sense to this thread?

would be nice except the side opposing me is running a hard-nosed "if you change anything besides ram- the warranty is void.. period!"

so my counters have to be incredibly nit-picky to steer through that (imo) madness.

idk- stick around the thread with the middle-of-the-road stance you came in on and you'll see how well that goes over.