Is really Android a competitive iOS alternative?

[jamezr]

RIM/BlackBerry didn't just lose market share; their sales declined as well. Apple has been steadily losing market share for a while now, but only recently did sales peak. Apple has nothing to worry about until sales start dramatically declining. Market share means very little at the moment.

I agree to a point....but sales are declining. YoY and QoQ iPhone sales along with market share have declined.

I don't think it is doom and gloom for Apple. I think they have some great things left in them. I'm a customer and will continue to be one. Looking forward to the iphone 7 next month

 

[Channan]

I agree to a point....but sales are declining. YoY and QoQ iPhone sales along with market share have declined.

I don't think it is doom and gloom for Apple. I think they have some great things left in them. I'm a customer and will continue to be one. Looking forward to the iphone 7 next month

They are declining, but like I said, it's a very recent thing. It's not necessarily because of the competition. The market was bound to get saturated at some point. Apple couldn't increase sales forever.

What remains to be seen is if sales start dropping dramatically. That's when Apple needs to worry.

 

[jamezr]

They are declining, but like I said, it's a very recent thing. It's not necessarily because of the competition. The market was bound to get saturated at some point. Apple couldn't increase sales forever.

What remains to be seen is if sales start dropping dramatically. That's when Apple needs to worry.

I beg to differ....if iPhone sales are dropping due to a saturated smartphone market? Why are their competitors gaining market share and sales? The answer is the competitors are taking sales away from them. The market space is not saturated as other companies are gaining sales and market share from Apple right now. I agree with you that this is a recent development and can be erased with a solid product release. But I think that release might not come until 2017 with the iPhone 8.

 

[Channan]

I beg to differ....if iPhone sales are dropping due to a saturated smartphone market? Why are their competitors gaining market share and sales? The answer is the competitors are taking sales away from them. The market space is not saturated as other companies are gaining sales and market share from Apple right now. I agree with you that this is a recent development and can be erased with a solid product release. But I think that release might not come until 2017 with the iPhone 8.

iPhones just saw a decline in sales for the first time recently. Worldwide smartphone growth went flat at the beginning of this year. Apple has kept a pretty consistent market share percentage for a while, even with the hundreds of cheap phones out there.

The manufacturers seeing growth are the ones churning out dirt cheap phones with tiny profit margins, and the only way for Apple to counter that is to release budget phones themselves. They're not that type of company.

 

[v0lume4]

Here are some screen shots of my Nexus 6 if your interested, which is still one of my favorite phones of all time. https://goo.gl/photos/DW2vj1nR7ofcAVGu5

I saw Top Gear in those screenshots that you posted. Good man

 

[BlueGoldAce]

iPhones just saw a decline in sales for the first time recently. Worldwide smartphone growth went flat at the beginning of this year. Apple has kept a pretty consistent market share percentage for a while, even with the hundreds of cheap phones out there.

The manufacturers seeing growth are the ones churning out dirt cheap phones with tiny profit margins, and the only way for Apple to counter that is to release budget phones themselves. They're not that type of company.

Are you sure on this? Samsung has seen an increase in market share, and an increase in the demand for their flagship devices.

 

[jamezr]

iPhones just saw a decline in sales for the first time recently. Worldwide smartphone growth went flat at the beginning of this year. Apple has kept a pretty consistent market share percentage for a while, even with the hundreds of cheap phones out there.

The manufacturers seeing growth are the ones churning out dirt cheap phones with tiny profit margins, and the only way for Apple to counter that is to release budget phones themselves. They're not that type of company.

Sorry but the actual data says otherwise. While Apple is losing sale the rest of the smartphone space is actually growing and gaining marketshare and sales YoY and QoQ

The data below shows Apple losing more market share and sales than the others. Overall Gartner says the smartphone space is growing in 2016.

2016 Q2

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS41636516

http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/3323017

 

[Channan]

Sorry but the actual data says otherwise. While Apple is losing sale the rest of the smartphone space is actually growing and gaining marketshare and sales YoY and QoQ

The data below shows Apple losing more market share and sales than the others. Overall Gartner says the smartphone space is growing in 2016.

2016 Q2

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS41636516

http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/3323017

Your data is only from the past year, which is the only time the iPhone has ever seen a drop in sales. Ever. The iPhone had one bad year in almost a decade since launch.

The charts also don't break down high end phones from cheap budget phones.

But it's so convenient that the only chart that shows a decent jump for Samsung (only 4 million too, BTW) is the quarter they launched their newest flagship. The others show only a very minor bump or even a decline.

Also, how do you figure the charts show the smartphone market is growing? Your first chart shows less than a million more devices shipped in Q2 this year than last year. That's nothing when you're talking about over 1/3 of a billion sales.

 

[C DM]

Are you sure on this? Samsung has seen an increase in market share, and an increase in the demand for their flagship devices.

Would the release of a new flagship phone have something to do with that?

 

[jamezr]

Your data is only from the past year, which is the only time the iPhone has ever seen a drop in sales. Ever. The iPhone had one bad year in almost a decade since launch.

The charts also don't break down high end phones from cheap budget phones.

But it's so convenient that the only chart that shows a decent jump for Samsung (only 4 million too, BTW) is the quarter they launched their newest flagship. The others show only a very minor bump or even a decline.

Also, how do you figure the charts show the smartphone market is growing? Your first chart shows less than a million more devices shipped in Q2 this year than last year. That's nothing when you're talking about over 1/3 of a billion sales.

The data is pretty clear...it shows Apple losing sales and market share YoY from last year to present. You might not like the data but that doesn't change the the facts it presents.
You're right it doesn't differentiate between high end or low end sales. Why would it? Sales are sales and they all count to the data.
Apple is still in a great position. They have enough cash reserves to wait out the drop in sales and market share. If rumors are true they intend to have a great product out in 2017 with the iPhone 8

Now I have backed up my position with data and articles to back up everything I have said.
Now it's your turn.......... what do you base your position on?

Then to your last statements....
Gartner Says Worldwide Smartphone Sales Grew 3.9 Percent in First Quarter of 2016
http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/3323017

 

[Channan]

The data is pretty clear...it shows Apple losing sales and market share YoY from last year to present. You might not like the data but that doesn't change the the facts it presents.
You're right it doesn't differentiate between high end or low end sales. Why would it? Sales are sales and they all count to the data.
Apple is still in a great position. They have enough cash reserves to wait out the drop in sales and market share. If rumors are true they intend to have a great product out in 2017 with the iPhone 8

Now I have backed up my position with data and articles to back up everything I have said.
Now it's your turn.......... what do you base your position on?

Then to your last statements....
Gartner Says Worldwide Smartphone Sales Grew 3.9 Percent in First Quarter of 2016
http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/3323017

You've done nothing to disprove anything I've said. I admitted Apple saw a decline in sales and market share long before you posted your charts. I'm not arguing that the iPhone didn't have a bad year. I'm saying they had ONE bad year. Their very first bad year. That doesn't make a pattern. Your charts have only shown what I've said all along.

Also, yeah the smartphone market saw a 3.85% increase at the beginning of this year, but the most recent quarter saw only a 0.26% increase. That's a forth of 1%. Go back and look at previous year's growth and you'll see even 3.85% is very little comparatively.

 

[BlueGoldAce]

You've done nothing to disprove anything I've said. I admitted Apple saw a decline in sales and market share long before you posted your charts. I'm not arguing that the iPhone didn't have a bad year. I'm saying they had ONE bad year. Their very first bad year. That doesn't make a pattern. Your charts have only shown what I've said all along.

Also, yeah the smartphone market saw a 3.85% increase at the beginning of this year, but the most recent quarter saw only a 0.26% increase. That's a forth of 1%. Go back and look at previous year's growth and you'll see even 3.85% is very little comparatively.

I don't think you are disapproving him either.

Facts: Apple saw a year over year decrease and Samsung see an increase. The reason for this is only speculative. Its also only speculative whether this year of year decrease will remain atypical, or if it will become a new trend.

Overall, both arguments are speculative.


Here's the better fact: Android dwarves iOS in the user base. It doesn't matter how expensive the phone are. When can make an argument that the platform that runs efficiently on the cheaper phones, it's a more competitive and efficient platform. The Android is a very competitive platform with iOS.

 

[Channan]

I don't think you are disapproving him either.

Facts: Apple saw a year over year decrease and Samsung see an increase. The reason for this is only speculative. Its also only speculative whether this year of year decrease will remain atypical, or if it will become a new trend.

Overall, both arguments are speculative.


Here's the better fact: Android dwarves iOS in the user base. It doesn't matter how expensive the phone are. When can make an argument that the platform that runs efficiently on the cheaper phones, it's a more competitive and efficient platform. The Android is a very competitive platform with iOS.

I'm not trying to disprove anyone. All I'm saying is Apple saw a decrease in sales for the first time recently and that it was inevitable. Sales can't continue to increase forever. There has to be peak at some point.

"Its also only speculative whether this year of year decrease will remain atypical, or if it will become a new trend."

This was my entire point. Just because the iPhone saw a decrease in sales doesn't necessarily mean the iPhone is failing Apple. There's no pattern.

 

[jamezr]

I'm not trying to disprove anyone. All I'm saying is Apple saw a decrease in sales for the first time recently and that it was inevitable. Sales can't continue to increase forever. There has to be peak at some point.

"Its also only speculative whether this year of year decrease will remain atypical, or if it will become a new trend."

This was my entire point. Just because the iPhone saw a decrease in sales doesn't necessarily mean the iPhone is failing Apple. There's no pattern.

We don't know if the trend will continue. But there is a pattern. The data shows the pattern. Will it continue? We don't know yet.

 

[Channan]

We don't know if the trend will continue. But there is a pattern. The data shows the pattern. Will it continue? We don't know yet.

The first and only iPhone to sell less than previous iPhones. Since when does one make a pattern?

 

[jamezr]

The first and only iPhone to sell less than previous iPhones. Since when does one make a pattern?

it might be the first for sure and there is a 12 months and more of data to show that fact. That is a pattern of losing sales and market share. You just want to mince words for some reason. The data is right in front of you that shows the pattern....be it a 12-14 month pattern or not...it is still a pattern. The next quarters data will be out soon that will show and even longer time period of losing sales and market share.

 

[Channan]

it might be the first for sure and there is a 12 months and more of data to show that fact. That is a pattern of losing sales and market share. You just want to mince words for some reason. The data is right in front of you that shows the pattern....be it a 12-14 month pattern or not...it is still a pattern. The next quarters data will be out soon that will show and even longer time period of losing sales and market share.

It's not 12-14 months. It's 2 quarters. It's one iPhone model. There was barely a gain from Q1 '15 to Q1 '16, but it wasn't a loss, and there was no loss before that.

 

[jamezr]

It's not 12-14 months. It's 2 quarters. It's one iPhone model. There was barely a gain from Q1 '15 to Q1 '16, but it wasn't a loss, and there was no loss before that.

Scroll back up and look at the data again.....there is YOY loss and QoQ loss. Soon when the new data is out it will show even more loss of sales and market share. The new iPhone 7 will help a little. But remember the 6s sold really well so the IP7 might not hold up against those numbers. Especially with the enormous amount of rumors pointing to the iPhone 8 being truly remarkable.
Foxconn Apple's chief supplier has reported a huge loss in demand as well. See below for more data to prove what I am saying..... You have yet to post anything to back up your claims

http://www.wsj.com/articles/foxconn-profit-drops-on-iphone-sales-slowdown-1463055500

Foxconn Technology Group, Apple’s main iPhone assembler, on Thursday said its first-quarter net profit fell 9.2% to 27.58 billion New Taiwan dollars (US$848.2 million), from NT$30.39 billion a year earlier.

Pegatron’s first-quarter net profit dropped 35% to NT$4.1 billion from a year earlier.

Some component suppliers fared worse. Sharp Corp., which supplies screens for iPads and other companies’ gadgets, said on Thursday that its display unit posted an operating loss of ¥129.1 billion (US$1.19 billion) for its fiscal year ended in March, from a profit of ¥500 million in the previous year.

Sharp Chief Executive Kozo Takahashi said orders from major smartphone makers have slowed drastically in the final quarter of the year.

 

[Channan]

Scroll back up and look at the data again.....there is YOY loss and QoQ loss. Soon when the new data is out it will show even more loss of sales and market share. The new iPhone 7 will help a little. But remember the 6s sold really well so the IP7 might not hold up against those numbers. Especially with the enormous amount of rumors pointing to the iPhone 8 being truly remarkable.
Foxconn Apple's chief supplier has reported a huge loss in demand as well. See below for more data to prove what I am saying..... You have yet to post anything to back up your claims

http://www.wsj.com/articles/foxconn-profit-drops-on-iphone-sales-slowdown-1463055500

There is YOY loss because the first two quarters didn't make up for the last two quarters within that year. iPhone sales never declined until this year.

I don't need to back up my claims because you're doing a good enough job finding charts yourself. You just need to do a bit better job reading them.

 

[jamezr]

O

There is YOY loss because the first two quarters didn't make up for the last two quarters within that year. iPhone sales never declined until this year.

I don't need to back up my claims because you're doing a good enough job finding charts yourself. You just need to do a bit better job reading them.

k dude......like the old saying about leading a horse to water....

Have a great day!

 

[Channan]

O

k dude......like the old saying about leading a horse to water....

Have a great day!

You want a chart? Here you go:

http://www.statista.com/statistics/263401/global-apple-iphone-sales-since-3rd-quarter-2007/

First quarter Apple saw a decline from the previous quarter was Q2 this year.

Also, maybe consider the iPhone isn't doing as great this year because so many people upgraded last year when Apple finally introduced larger screens and most people don't upgrade every year. Look at that massive gain when the iPhone 6 was introduced.

 

[jamezr]

You want a chart? Here you go:

http://www.statista.com/statistics/263401/global-apple-iphone-sales-since-3rd-quarter-2007/

First quarter Apple saw a decline from the previous quarter was Q2 this year.

Also, maybe consider the iPhone isn't doing as great this year because so many people upgraded last year when Apple finally introduced larger screens and most people don't upgrade every year. Look at that massive gain when the iPhone 6 was introduced.

Sorry....but I have posted enough data and charts to prove beyond doubt Apple ahs lost sales and market share in more than just Q2 of this year. They continue to lose while others gain sales and market share at their expense.

Sure looks like a pattern to me and not just the last quarter!

Sales have been dropping since the iPhone 6 first came out in 2014

By comparison, Apple shipped 44.4 million iPhones in Q2, down from 51.63 in Q1 and 71.53 million when the iPhone 6s came out late last year. But even that figure couldn’t match the 74.83 million iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Pluses shipped in Q4, 2014..

http://www.androidauthority.com/android-posts-highest-ever-market-share-figures-711517/

 

[Channan]

First of all, and again, who cares about market share when you're making more money than everyone else combined?

Second, this chart shows Apple has maintained pretty much the SAME market share percentage for YEARS. It goes up and comes back down. Repeat. It's a wave, not a cliff. What do you mean they're losing market share?

Again, and I feel like I'm just going to have to keep repeating myself at this point, I don't need to provide any sources. You're doing an excellent job at finding the data. You're just doing a less than stellar job reading it.

 

[BlueGoldAce]

First of all, and again, who cares about market share when you're making more money than everyone else combined?

Second, this chart shows Apple has maintained pretty much the SAME market share percentage for YEARS. It goes up and comes back down. Repeat. It's a wave, not a cliff. What do you mean they're losing market share?


Again, and I feel like I'm just going to have to keep repeating myself at this point, I don't need to provide any sources. You're doing an excellent job at finding the data. You're just doing a less than stellar job reading it.

Bud....not providing sources makes your argument look weak, and you look lazy. Period. Is that how you present you argument at work,school, etc?

Don't rely on other peoprsl sources, and just try and pick them apart.


Also, who cares? Others may be catching up to Apple. Based on your own argument, bound to happen eventually. It's happened on other industries, time and time again.

What point are you trying to make here?

 

[jamezr]

First of all, and again, who cares about market share when you're making more money than everyone else combined?

Second, this chart shows Apple has maintained pretty much the SAME market share percentage for YEARS. It goes up and comes back down. Repeat. It's a wave, not a cliff. What do you mean they're losing market share?


Again, and I feel like I'm just going to have to keep repeating myself at this point, I don't need to provide any sources. You're doing an excellent job at finding the data. You're just doing a less than stellar job reading it.

Thats when you know they have no leg to stand on....they dump their position and throw in profits. Apple makes an insane amount of profits for sure. I am sure they are the envy of most companies. The data clearly shows losing sales from 2014 to now. It will be very interesting to see how well the new iPhone does against previous years sales.
We will soon find out......


Do you see the black line below? It has peaks and valleys for sure but it is moving downward.