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jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,079
19,072
US
Does anybody here actually get excited by this trend? I personally find it pretty damn alarming. Having one platform control such an overwelmingly high percentage of the mobile OS market doesn't benefit the consumer in any way. And I'm not claiming we should all be cheering for iOS to make a huge resurgence. I don't like seeing one 2 players with one of those having over 85% of the market. Sadly, I don't see a third player breaking through in the mobile market's existing form. It took a paradigm shift with the introduction of the iPhone to shake up the industry back in 2007-2009 and I think this scenario won't change unless an outside force has the same kind of effect in the future.
But it is not just two players. Android is not controlled by one OEM. In fact quite the opposite. Samsung the biggest Android OEM is actually losing to the upstarts like Huawei, OPPO, Xiaomi, ZTE and a few others. It is with them that all the growth lies. Apple is losing because it has become complacent with spoon feeding technology and features to its customer base.
It is not two players at all. It is Apple followed by the above listed Android OEMS and more are popping up all the time.
Technology and the components to bring them all together in a smartphone has evolved.

Now even $300 to $400 smartphones can compete with the Galaxy and Note and iPhones.
I think this is very good for the consumer. It is pushing the very big players to bring more to the table or lose the market share they have to the lower cost feature rich OEMs
 

Wildo6882

macrumors 6502a
Sep 12, 2015
522
561
Illinois
But it is not just two players. Android is not controlled by one OEM. In fact quite the opposite. Samsung the biggest Android OEM is actually losing to the upstarts like Huawei, OPPO, Xiaomi, ZTE and a few others. It is with them that all the growth lies. Apple is losing because it has become complacent with spoon feeding technology and features to its customer base.
It is not two players at all. It is Apple followed by the above listed Android OEMS and more are popping up all the time.
Technology and the components to bring them all together in a smartphone has evolved.

Now even $300 to $400 smartphones can compete with the Galaxy and Note and iPhones.
I think this is very good for the consumer. It is pushing the very big players to bring more to the table or lose the market share they have to the lower cost feature rich OEMs

Yeah, that chart doesn't even show how much market share a little known company (at least in the US) named Huawei has. In Q12015 they had a 5.4% market share. Now in Q12016 they have jumped to an 8.3% market share. That's pretty big, and I'm sure it coincides with making their devices more readily available in the Western markets. By the same token, Apple dropped from 17.9%-14.8% over the same time period.

I would never say that Apple is doomed, but it's going to be tough to regain that lost market share when these cheaper upstart companies are gaining ground in sales and capabilities. Like you said, a $400 Android phone can work INCREDIBLY well, take great pictures, and have a great screen - all for half the price of an iPhone.
 
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epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
6,517
5,353
As we all know, Apple would never mind more marketshare, but that's also not their primary objective (like it might be for Google whose profits come from propagating Android as much as possible). Apple will just focus on what they do best, make profit. That's not bad for any company.

However, it's becoming more apparent to me that such a focus isn't always the best for the consumer. There have been rather solid rumors throughout the first half of the year that Apple was going to introduce three phone options: the standard 4.7" iPhone, the 5.5" iPhone Plus, and some form of a "Pro" model that bests the Plus model for even more features (namely, the dual camera). For whatever reason, Apple has scrapped this and will likely save this three-tier model for next year (more on that later...). Why have they done this? They know a third "Pro" model would likely have been very profitable. Is it because they took their first dip in sales? Is it because of Samsung and other competitors stealing marketshare and attention away? I mean, the OnePlus 3 does make it harder to justify a "Pro" model that could easily hit or be close to, what, $1000 unlocked? That's hard to justify.

So Apple will likely stay with the two-tier system that everyone is now familiar with, and lucky for us consumers, that means the 5.5" Plus model will likely adopt some if not all the features that they were going to save for the Pro model. Consumers are better off for this. I'm sure the iPhone 7 sales will do great. As I've said before, I still wouldn't bet against Apple despite how their devices compare objectively to the competition.

So looking ahead to 2017... there are now rumors that Apple will save this three-tier idea for next year where it might make a lot more sense. But, once again, it begs the question, is this the best for the consumer? They'll likely have a big redesign across all three models (all glass?) that'll lead to features that are sorely missing from the iPhones. And this time, the third super high-end "Pro" model (or whatever they will call it), will have edge displays. That'll really help differentiate it from the two other options and will make it easier for Apple to justify a third model and the price it'll likely come with. Again, what are we talking about? It's not hard to imagine close to or hitting $1000 for even the base version.

So again, the same question, is this what we want? Is this the best for consumers? I have no doubt Apple can get away with it. 1) It'll make more sense saving it for next year and it'll be easier to justify and sell; and 2) History has proven their base will purchase high-end expensive versions, so why not, right?

Of course, most will know where I stand on this subject. I think it straight up sucks that Apple isn't able to provide their latest and newest features across more models. Sure, there could be supply issues cause no doubt Apple's demands are far greater than any other OEM at the moment. And sure, Apple is in it for the profits and they know their base will likely pay for it, so why wouldn't any smart CEO approve this plan? I get all that. But it doesn't change the fact that it sucks for the consumer like me who wants the latest Apple tech, but doesn't want it in a large device and/or doesn't want to spend what is likely nearly or even over a grand to get it.

It's especially a sore point when you consider the rumor that Samsung will actually be expanding their edge screen tech to more models in their lineup. The one I'm particularly excited about is the S8. Imagine a 5.2" device with the refined edge screen from the Note 7; can you imagine how ergonomic or what a small footprint such a device could be? And if Samsung holds true to what they've been doing with their models, it means the standard S8 won't miss out on any features other than the obvious ones (screen/battery size).

There's nothing inherently wrong with what Apple is doing. Some of it is even understandable (again, why not, right?). But it still sort of sucks, and it begs another question: should we really be celebrating with so much pride that Apple is king of profits? Does that really make a difference to us in our day to day use of our iPhones? I have no doubt some of that profit is being invested back into the economy, environment, R&D, marketing, maintaining Apple stores, etc., but what about the actual technology itself and the offerings there? They really couldn't get the dual camera into the standard iPhone 7? They really can't offer all their features across all their lineups? Wouldn't that be better for the consumer?

If you made it this far, thanks for listening. Looking forward to the discussion.




EDIT: I was going to put up a TL;DR, but Michael Goff has already summed it up for me perfectly, so thank you as I borrow your quote:

Am I weird to think that I don't really care who makes more money or has more market? I just want good phones, darn it.

No, you are not. :)
 

Surf Donkey

Suspended
May 12, 2015
1,541
1,434
Android is a great alternative. But don't confuse Samsungs bloated laggy UI with the other OEMs that a doing a great job giving a clean Android experience. HTC, LG, OP are all very smooth.
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,079
19,072
US
As we all know, Apple would never mind more marketshare, but that's also not their primary objective (like it might be for Google whose profits come from propagating Android as much as possible). Apple will just focus on what they do best, make profit. That's not bad for any company.

However, it's becoming more apparent to me that such a focus isn't always the best for the consumer. There have been rather solid rumors throughout the first half of the year that Apple was going to introduce three phone options: the standard 4.7" iPhone, the 5.5" iPhone Plus, and some form of a "Pro" model that bests the Plus model for even more features (namely, the dual camera). For whatever reason, Apple has scrapped this and will likely save this three-tier model for next year (more on that later...). Why have they done this? They know a third "Pro" model would likely have been very profitable. Is it because they took their first dip in sales? Is it because of Samsung and other competitors stealing marketshare and attention away? I mean, the OnePlus 3 does make it harder to justify a "Pro" model that could easily hit or be close to, what, $1000 unlocked? That's hard to justify.

So Apple will likely stay with the two-tier system that everyone is now familiar with, and lucky for us consumers, that means the 5.5" Plus model will likely adopt some if not all the features that they were going to save for the Pro model. Consumers are better off for this. I'm sure the iPhone 7 sales will do great. As I've said before, I still wouldn't bet against Apple despite how their devices compare objectively to the competition.

So looking ahead to 2017... there are now rumors that Apple will save this three-tier idea for next year where it might make a lot more sense. But, once again, it begs the question, is this the best for the consumer? They'll likely have a big redesign across all three models (all glass?) that'll lead to features that are sorely missing from the iPhones. And this time, the third super high-end "Pro" model (or whatever they will call it), will have edge displays. That'll really help differentiate it from the two other options and will make it easier for Apple to justify a third model and the price it'll likely come with. Again, what are we talking about? It's not hard to imagine close to or hitting $1000 for even the base version.

So again, the same question, is this what we want? Is this the best for consumers? I have no doubt Apple can get away with it. 1) It'll make more sense saving it for next year and it'll be easier to justify and sell; and 2) History has proven their base will purchase high-end expensive versions, so why not, right?

Of course, most will know where I stand on this subject. I think it straight up sucks that Apple isn't able to provide their latest and newest features across more models. Sure, there could be supply issues cause no doubt Apple's demands are far greater than any other OEM at the moment. And sure, Apple is in it for the profits and they know their base will likely pay for it, so why wouldn't any smart CEO approve this plan? I get all that. But it doesn't change the fact that it sucks for the consumer like me who wants the latest Apple tech, but doesn't want it in a large device and/or doesn't want to spend what is likely nearly or even over a grand to get it.

It's especially a sore point when you consider the rumor that Samsung will actually be expanding their edge screen tech to more models in their lineup. The one I'm particularly excited about is the S8. Imagine a 5.2" device with the refined edge screen from the Note 7; can you imagine how ergonomic or what a small footprint such a device could be? And if Samsung holds true to what they've been doing with their models, it means the standard S8 won't miss out on any features other than the obvious ones (screen/battery size).

There's nothing inherently wrong with what Apple is doing. Some of it is even understandable (again, why not, right?). But it still sort of sucks, and it begs another question: should we really be celebrating with so much pride that Apple is king of profits? Does that really make a difference to us in our day to day use of our iPhones? I have no doubt some of that profit is being invested back into the economy, environment, R&D, marketing, maintaining Apple stores, etc., but what about the actual technology itself and the offerings there? They really couldn't get the dual camera into the standard iPhone 7? They really can't offer all their features across all their lineups? Wouldn't that be better for the consumer?

If you made it this far, thanks for listening. Looking forward to the discussion.




EDIT: I was going to put up a TL;DR, but Michael Goff has already summed it up for me perfectly, so thank you as I borrow your quote:



No, you are not. :)
Great points as always Epicrayban!
I for one can't wait to see what is next in 2017...the S8 should round out to be the best Samsung phone yet.
Then we all know Apple is bringing it for the 10th anniversary of the iPhone.
Will 2017 be the year Samsung brings a fordable phablet to market?

I think if phones start getting to where the 1K price range is the norm for flagships.....you will see an explosion in sales for OEMs like Huawei, OnePlus, Xiaomi, ZTE and so on. The value\technology they bring for smartphones in the $300 to $400 price range is phenomenal.
 
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epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
6,517
5,353
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Repo...-first-time-during-the-second-quarter_id84528

Report: More iOS than Android devices failed for the first time during the second quarter

The big headline here is that performance failures were spotted on 58% of iOS devices in the period. That is double the amount spotted in the first quarter. During the same time period, 35% of Android devices had a performance failure which means that for the first time in this history of the report, more iOS devices failed than Android devices.

65% of the iOS devices that experienced a problem in the second quarter had a problem with apps that crashed.

According to the report, apps crashed on 50% of iOS devices that went through the diagnostic test in the second quarter, compared to 23% of Android devices.




I said this in another thread: I still cannot remember the last time an Android app has crashed on me.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,157
25,268
Gotta be in it to win it
Yeah, that chart doesn't even show how much market share a little known company (at least in the US) named Huawei has. In Q12015 they had a 5.4% market share. Now in Q12016 they have jumped to an 8.3% market share. That's pretty big, and I'm sure it coincides with making their devices more readily available in the Western markets. By the same token, Apple dropped from 17.9%-14.8% over the same time period.

I would never say that Apple is doomed, but it's going to be tough to regain that lost market share when these cheaper upstart companies are gaining ground in sales and capabilities. Like you said, a $400 Android phone can work INCREDIBLY well, take great pictures, and have a great screen - all for half the price of an iPhone.
And a Samsung flagship as well.
 

Wildo6882

macrumors 6502a
Sep 12, 2015
522
561
Illinois
And a Samsung flagship as well.

Yup. I think the market is trending well for the cheaper phones. I'd be shocked if Samsung and Apple didn't follow suit, at least in some form or fashion. Samsung has midrange devices now, but they aren't nearly as premium as Honor, OnePlus or ZTE.
 
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Loco Emperor

macrumors regular
Jun 17, 2016
199
96
Eh depends. Feature wise yes but performance android is still inferior and not something I can use without cringing.
 

iRock1

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Apr 23, 2011
1,081
144
Am I weird to think that I don't really care who makes more money or has more market? I just want good phones, darn it.

In fact, all the discussion has turned into nonsense. I just wanted to know if android devices are good enough.
 
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marcociccone

macrumors member
Sep 29, 2014
66
21
I've read this thread, as I'm really tempted by the dark side. Just got really excited about latest Google news (daydream, home...), I wonder what the difference will be between demos and real life. I'm looking to buy a Nexus 6P, used, and try it... last time I got an android phone was a Galaxy S3, it became so laggy to be unusable... that's the only thing that kept me away from android: lagginess over time.

I hope it doesn't happen anymore with the nexus devices and android stock.
[doublepost=1473120488][/doublepost]
Does anybody here actually get excited by this trend? I personally find it pretty damn alarming. Having one platform control such an overwelmingly high percentage of the mobile OS market doesn't benefit the consumer in any way. And I'm not claiming we should all be cheering for iOS to make a huge resurgence. I don't like seeing one 2 players with one of those having over 85% of the market. Sadly, I don't see a third player breaking through in the mobile market's existing form. It took a paradigm shift with the introduction of the iPhone to shake up the industry back in 2007-2009 and I think this scenario won't change unless an outside force has the same kind of effect in the future.

Same thing that happened with desktops and windows and apple. Win dominate the market, Apple is niche. Same will happen with smartphones. But Apple now has apps, so if it can keep a good relationship with developers... will be a so different story. But I agree that this trend is alarming, especially considering that Google is a data mining company...
 

BlueGoldAce

macrumors 68000
Oct 11, 2011
1,951
1,455
I've read this thread, as I'm really tempted by the dark side. Just got really excited about latest Google news (daydream, home...), I wonder what the difference will be between demos and real life. I'm looking to buy a Nexus 6P, used, and try it... last time I got an android phone was a Galaxy S3, it became so laggy to be unusable... that's the only thing that kept me away from android: lagginess over time.

I hope it doesn't happen anymore with the nexus devices and android stock.
[doublepost=1473120488][/doublepost]

Same thing that happened with desktops and windows and apple. Win dominate the market, Apple is niche. Same will happen with smartphones. But Apple now has apps, so if it can keep a good relationship with developers... will be a so different story. But I agree that this trend is alarming, especially considering that Google is a data mining company...
Apple mines data, they just don't directly profit from it. It's in the licensing.
 

marcociccone

macrumors member
Sep 29, 2014
66
21
Apple mines data, they just don't directly profit from it. It's in the licensing.

Yes I know, I was just saying that Google mines data and sell it. I'm not bothered (I work in digital marketing so I know pretty damn well what are they doing being a google customer myself for their advertising products), but in general having a "monopoly" it's never good.
 
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mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,625
11,298
Fear mongering non-sense.

On the other hand, I opted in to Google Now and when I took pictures of an event it asked me if I wanted to share them on Google Maps. Being that we're in a social network sharing era of course I wanted to share since that's the reason for taking them. It just made it easier and the point is everything is opt-in from enabling Google Now personalization to sharing content. As for Google Play, some apps use location as piracy protection. If you're not a criminal or pedophile you have nothing to worry about.
 
Last edited:

iRock1

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Apr 23, 2011
1,081
144
Fear mongering non-sense.

On the other hand, I opted in to Google Now and when I took pictures of an event it asked me if I wanted to share them on Google Maps. Being that we're in a social network sharing era of course I wanted to share since that's the reason for taking them. It just made it easier and the point is everything is opt-in from enabling Google Now personalization to sharing content. As for Google Play, some apps use location as piracy protection. If you're not a criminal or pedophile you have nothing to worry about.

Please don't refer to other people's comments as 'non-sense'. Even if you don't care (or don't know a lot of what you are talking about), the point has perfect sense. There is a 'subtle' difference there.

Cheers.
 

BlueGoldAce

macrumors 68000
Oct 11, 2011
1,951
1,455
Please don't refer to other people's comments as 'non-sense'. Even if you don't care (or don't know a lot of what you are talking about), the point has perfect sense. There is a 'subtle' difference there.

Cheers.

He was referring to the article, not you, and he is correct.

Google harvest data and profits from it. Apple harvest your data, but downs profit from it....directly. They use it to create better services and products.

But then so does google. Both are for concerned about your privacy, and both mix your data into a data pull of millions. Your completely shielded based on the way the data is treated, and the sure number of user.

Facebook, apple, twitter, google, Microsoft, the 76ers team iOS app (yeah, read about it) all collect your data.

It is up to you to take the time and effort to read the user agreement. If you don't, your fault.

The fear mongering over google is nonsense, and it's something apple is happy to exploit...just like they exploit Chinese labor laws.

No company is perfect or benign.

Also....Apple maps tracks you too. Google it, or read the agreement.


**I love my apple products, and just purchased new IPhones and watches, so no, I don't hate Apple**
 

iRock1

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Apr 23, 2011
1,081
144
He was referring to the article, not you, and he is correct.

Google harvest data and profits from it. Apple harvest your data, but downs profit from it....directly. They use it to create better services and products.

But then so does google. Both are for concerned about your privacy, and both mix your data into a data pull of millions. Your completely shielded based on the way the data is treated, and the sure number of user.

Facebook, apple, twitter, google, Microsoft, the 76ers team iOS app (yeah, read about it) all collect your data.

It is up to you to take the time and effort to read the user agreement. If you don't, your fault.

The fear mongering over google is nonsense, and it's something apple is happy to exploit...just like they exploit Chinese labor laws.

No company is perfect or benign.

Also....Apple maps tracks you too. Google it, or read the agreement.


**I love my apple products, and just purchased new IPhones and watches, so no, I don't hate Apple**

I don't even know where to start.

We are not talking about advertising here (where, in fact, there is a HUGE difference in the way both Google and Apple treat your data).

Did you ever read the article?

On a side note, what I find plain non-sense is the rhetoric "if you care about your privacy you must be a pedophile or a terrorist", or "come on, privacy? We are so social media now—that other train departed a long time ago".
 

BlueGoldAce

macrumors 68000
Oct 11, 2011
1,951
1,455
I don't even know where to start.

We are not talking about advertising here (where, in fact, there is a HUGE difference in the way both Google and Apple treat your data).

Did you ever read the article?

On a side note, what I find plain non-sense is the rhetoric "if you care about your privacy you must be a pedophile or a terrorist", or "come on, privacy? We are so social media now—that other train departed a long time ago".

Yes. I also have read other articles, etc and formed my own opinion. Anyone can find an article supporting their argument.

Also, where did they come from? Never even inferred those arguments were legit. I do care about my privacy, and that is reflected in how I sue my tech.
 

nickchallis92

macrumors 6502a
Mar 4, 2012
906
469
London
I've been forced to use an iPhone 5S for the last week (my daily driver is a Galaxy S6 Edge +) as my galaxy's touch buttons stopped working and its being repaired. Using this iPhone is driving me mad. It's fast enough, but iOS is ridiculously stupid to use compared to android - namely the back button.

You get used to swiping back instead of having to reach up to the top left to go back, but as soon as you want to cycle back through apps, the iphone hits a brick wall. So if you ever open a link from a website, or via twitter, you're taken to safari (even though I want Chrome) and you cant swipe back.

Android on the other hand always goes back, irrespective of what you're trying to do.

drives me insane!!
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
I've been forced to use an iPhone 5S for the last week (my daily driver is a Galaxy S6 Edge +) as my galaxy's touch buttons stopped working and its being repaired. Using this iPhone is driving me mad. It's fast enough, but iOS is ridiculously stupid to use compared to android - namely the back button.

You get used to swiping back instead of having to reach up to the top left to go back, but as soon as you want to cycle back through apps, the iphone hits a brick wall. So if you ever open a link from a website, or via twitter, you're taken to safari (even though I want Chrome) and you cant swipe back.

Android on the other hand always goes back, irrespective of what you're trying to do.

drives me insane!!
You can using the back link at the top in the status bar, and on 3D Touch devices using a 3D Touch swipe from left to right.
 

nickchallis92

macrumors 6502a
Mar 4, 2012
906
469
London
You can using the back link at the top in the status bar, and on 3D Touch devices using a 3D Touch swipe from left to right.

That doesn't make sense. I've been swiping back and then suddenly you have to use that half baked back link at the top. Why not just swipe back to the previous app?!

Inconsistent UI that Android trumped day 1 with a back button
 
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