With a botched Catalina roll-out, Apple will not launch the 7,1 until the upgrade path from Mojave (or previous OSs) is risk free for all of their "pro" users...
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MP 7,1 Is the new 7,1 Mac Pro a failure on arrival
- Thread starter ZombiePhysicist
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But why, oh why is Apple baiting the luxury market with a case and a monitor stand that cost at least $1000 each?
Every CIO worth his/her salt should object at paying those ego stroking figures for what is essentially a tool...
Someone that wants more than the Intel integrated graphics included on most Macs and do not need a more expensive GPU. I used a 580 in my eGPU for a while and it was just fine for everything I did except a couple of the games I enjoy playing. So, someone like me who doesn't play games.
Those who have a combination of things
1. have stretched budget to get to a 7,1
2. have a major workload app that scales on GPUs used ( e.g. Da Vinci )
3. major parts of their workload that engages that part of the app.
4. not "Maxed out" of slot/MPX bay usage.
Yes combining all those factors gets to a smaller group of folks. But it likely enough to make a dent. ( especially with the substantive number of people Apple is throwing into bucket #1). Are most people going to fall into this category? No. (i.e., most folks could leverage to MP 6,1 GPUs. Some did though. )
If buying two 580X's costs $200 more that base system and is within 98% of the performance (or even worse for Apple higher performance) while the Vega II costs $1,400 more then ....
Yes you'll find a substantive number of folks who are will to apply that $1,200 to something else.
This number if relative to the 7,1 depressing Vega II variant sales also will only work with the 7,1. However, that is the major point. Apple doesn't have a vast market to sell the Vega II into in the first place. Causing a substantive chunk of fire sale priced MPX modules to flood the market is only going to make the market for new (from Apple) MPX modules that much smaller. Apple has nobody else to sell.
At Apple's "full price" for 580X modules. Probably won't sell that much. However, if folks are dumping them because the know Apple screwed them on the Vega II upgrades, then it is extremely likely they won't be sold at "full price". ( cost recovering being screwed of even $200 is better than nothing. )
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Until someone comes up with a eGPU box that can take a MPX module, those folks won't be in the mix. The 580X not having on board TBv3 controllers would make that a better fit also.
I'm not sure how Apple is going to down that path. They probably would have to be in the loop on developing such a box. It wouldn't be cheap as probably want two TBv3 controllers. It would probably only take half width MPX modules. ( a full width MPX module would be two TBv3 controllers (1 GPU , 1 on-board TBv3 controllers. and much bigger in more than 2 double wide. )
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I understand that. I was more talking to the quality of the 580 card(s) in general. It is not a bad video card compared to the Intel integrated graphics chipsets. If you are not going to be doing heavy GPU tasks with your new 7,1, then the 580X would be more than enough of a graphics card for you. If you are, well, those people will upgrade.
CIOs won't buy stands (unless they're one of those fecking idiots who wants to have one on their desk because they have inadequacies in other areas). The stand is meant to signal to those who would work with a monitor on a stand that "this is not meant for you." They'll take the money if someone insists on spending it, and it will partially cover the cost of the service nightmare these folx will be. These things go on a VESA mount for all uses that a CIO would be considering it for.
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Would it be able to go in a 5,1? If so, 5,1 owners might be interested. I am running a 580X in my 5,1 right now, and I know I'd love to get my boot screen back. I am, however, not so self-involved as to imagine that my use case represents a majority of 5,1 owners.
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No. It is an MPX module. So it has a MPX connector. From the Mac Pro specs.
"...
AMD Radeon Pro 580X
36 compute units, 2304 stream processors
8GB of GDDR5 memory
Up to 5.6 teraflops single precision
Two HDMI 2.0 ports on card
Four DisplayPort connections routed to system to support internal Thunderbolt 3 ports ...
...
Half-height MPX Module fits in an MPX bay and enables PCIe slot 2 for additional expansion.."
The 'routed to the system' part is via the MPX connector and associated pins.
Unless someone starts building external enclosures for MPX modules the Mac Pro 2019 is the only place the cards can go ( in that case , probably until Apple comes out with a Mac Pro 202x whatever x is. Probably not '0'. )
What is "special" about the 580X is the "half-height" ( or half width depending upon perspective). It doesn't completely block the secondary standard PCI-e slot in the MPX Bay. ( if put two 580X modules in, you'd still have two secondaries open. May not get extra power but something like drive cards or higher end network cards would work. )
The boot screen being there or not is more a function of the firmware ( which the 5,1 isn't going to get new versions supported by Apple. ). The Mac Pro is on the Obsolete list ( the "2012" is dangling on vintage, but that is more a formality. "It's dead Jim" in terms of support. ).
Yes, the utility of this card didn't collapse to zero now that the mid-range Navi cards are out.
If talking about who is buying it in the context of being the default GPU module .... Yes it is better than Intel iGPU but they also don't have a choice either. Most of the workstation vendors do tend to have something that is even slower than a 580X as the default GPU. But it really isn't a matter of could apple go even cheaper and still have 6 DisplayPort video streams.
If Apple turns the question of who is buying a 580X MPX module into "everybody who buys a MP 2019; you don't have a choice." then there would probably be substantive blowback on that.
The "those people will upgrade" carries a presumption that Apple is going to offer affordable upgrades. I suspect not for more than a few. I think the Vega II is likely over $1k. Folks who are looking for a another card whose budget just goes to $350, that isn't going to be an option for a second MPX module.
There will be other off-the-shelf non MPX modules but will the driver support be as well matched over the long term? For embarrassingly parallel GPGPU computation task two 580X is pretty close to what a Vega II can do. The $/performance ratio is much better, even folks with more substantive GPU needs will buy if Vega II prices are maximized in all contexts.
Well, dangit. My GPU needs extend to it being able to drive three decent monitors, no blingy graphics needed, and the 580 in my 5,1 fills that quite well, so I hadn't really looked past the base 7,1 card being the same card.
I'm sure you were a future customer of the new Mac Pro ... well ... wait ... you actually never were...
You guys keep going on and on about avx512 as if it's to justify your $60,000 machines or something...
1. AVX512 is only necessary for x.264. AVX2 is fully supported by AMD and runs on x.265, which is going to hobble your $60,000 machine sooner once everyone moves to x.265.
2. AVX512 is there to let your cpu do what gpus do. That's why the person said 64 core threadripper and 2080ti. That machine will do everything 3x faster then yours will.
1. AVX512 is only necessary for x.264. AVX2 is fully supported by AMD and runs on x.265, which is going to hobble your $60,000 machine sooner once everyone moves to x.265.
2. AVX512 is there to let your cpu do what gpus do. That's why the person said 64 core threadripper and 2080ti. That machine will do everything 3x faster then yours will.
Does it help at all with what afterburner does? Seems like if you have afterburner and work in pro-res, you kind of dont care. But I could easily be misunderstanding how that all works.
It should boost fcpx but you won't be able to use an nvidia card so the point about the 2080ti is moot.
One thing I should say in fairness to Apple is that while a threadripper build would be technically way faster, final cut is way better software then that garbage adobe makes. If I wasn't doing rendering and was doing video encoding I'd sadly have to consider it...
So... AMD didn't update the Radeon vii, which does seem to be unobtainable in Aus / NZ anyhow - so that means I am stuck with the 2080ti / 3960x.
Why is it that Apple won't offer the switch to AMD? - It's like Motorola / Intel all over again from decades ago.
Somehow they need to get more flexible and quicker with new CPU's / GPU's. The new 3990x is 25% the cost and faster than intels version.
And most of the PC cases look like crap.
Why is it that Apple won't offer the switch to AMD? - It's like Motorola / Intel all over again from decades ago.
Somehow they need to get more flexible and quicker with new CPU's / GPU's. The new 3990x is 25% the cost and faster than intels version.
And most of the PC cases look like crap.
I also find it equally ironic that so many are complaining about how pc boxes aren't just blocks of beige silver when you wouldn't have Apple if it wasn't for multiple colorful boxes of imacs ?
You can easily find a boringbeige silver pc box (Although for all of your arguments of rgb I don't see why you guys wouldn't find tempered glass cases nice), but admittitedly you can't find a replacement for final cut pro x which is why I see video encoders on osx
You can easily find a boring
You mean like ultra expensive Mac OS bundled with a mac as dongle?
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Pro Audio: Avid ProTools (& mutliple HDx cards), Nuendo, Cubase, Ableton Live, Digital Performer, Presonus Studio One, maybe even Apple's self proclaimed Logic 'Pro'. Even less of a GPU would be fine. More unsual for the base model is the silly 256GB boot disk (then jump to the 1TB), plus the slow 32GB ram. Maybe by next Xmas this may migrate up a little to something more sensible, 48GB minimum, 1TB minimum.
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As much as I lust after the greatest computer technology, I feel a bit uneasy using it for paying work as it would incur some unwanted risk. For this reason I'm happy to obtain the latest and greatest -1, such as this new MP7,1 that as many have claimed is at -1. So far, from the numerous MP7,1 reviews I read/viewed, the new MP7,1 appears to be a solid piece of computing gear, and will serve me as a good work-horse, as did the MP6,1 that has never given me troubles at all. I expect the same from this new MP7,1. The one component that could be subject to worries is the future macOS versions not delivering a rock solid software base to work on.
No, you can't arbitrarily say "this part is x amount of the total price". More importantly, you can't say "this part is the freebie included with the paid product, and therefore doesn't attract any sort of warranty protections or is worth nothing in refund if it's faulty".
I see the MacPro is currently unavailable at the online AppleStore so initial demand was high (or supply was very limited).