Is the new Mac Pro a failure?

[whodatrr]

Probably best to differentiate Pros from Power Users.

For example, I'm a Power User. I can do almost all of my professional stuff, with the MBA or MacBook Pro my work issues me, provided I hook it up to a few external displays. I professionally produce a dozen or so videos a year, which are laughably light work think 3 minute YouTube Segments). Like many piping in on this board, I have no real professional need for Xeon 8-core CPUs or big GPUs.

However, I am a Power User. I do like to fiddle with 4K video and such, and have even dabbled my middle-aged toe back into gaming (because my kids are getting into it). I sometimes run a few VMs, and always have lots of apps open, along with dozens and dozens of docs. I also currently run three big displays on my main system, but really feel that I could be more productive with four heads. In other words, I tend to push my iMac very hard, and it shows.

I do believe that the nMP is a good tool for pros. With my work issued system, for example, I fiddle with nothing. I keep it in the exact same condition that my IT gave to to me, and I'll ship it back to them when they green-light my refresh. I don't install games on it, swap out components, nada. I think this is the same thinking that went into the nMP - IT can provide their constituents with a system that they won't need to touch, just plugging things into its ports.

But a Power User has different requirements. We fiddle with and tweak things, constantly. We try to save nickels and dimes by doing stuff ourselves. We can often trade a bit of downtime, for the prospect of some improvement down the road. we are different animals. For my use case, as a power user, the nMP isn't a good fit.

Have to agree with this. This forum obviously does attract a larger proportion of nerds and tinkerers than would be represented in the Mac's market share.

 

[NT1440]

Probably best to differentiate Pros from Power Users.

For example, I'm a Power User. I can do almost all of my professional stuff, with the MBA or MacBook Pro my work issues me, provided I hook it up to a few external displays. I professionally produce a dozen or so videos a year, which are laughably light work think 3 minute YouTube Segments). Like many piping in on this board, I have no real professional need for Xeon 8-core CPUs or big GPUs.

However, I am a Power User. I do like to fiddle with 4K video and such, and have even dabbled my middle-aged toe back into gaming (because my kids are getting into it). I sometimes run a few VMs, and always have lots of apps open, along with dozens and dozens of docs. I also currently run three big displays on my main system, but really feel that I could be more productive with four heads. In other words, I tend to push my iMac very hard, and it shows.

I do believe that the nMP is a good tool for pros. With my work issued system, for example, I fiddle with nothing. I keep it in the exact same condition that my IT gave to to me, and I'll ship it back to them when they green-light my refresh. I don't install games on it, swap out components, nada. I think this is the same thinking that went into the nMP - IT can provide their constituents with a system that they won't need to touch, just plugging things into its ports.

But a Power User has different requirements. We fiddle with and tweak things, constantly. We try to save nickels and dimes by doing stuff ourselves. We can often trade a bit of downtime, for the prospect of some improvement down the road. we are different animals. For my use case, as a power user, the nMP isn't a good fit.

That's probably the best description of what separate what I referred to earlier as "the nerds" and Pros who just want to get their work done.

The underlined is exactly my experiencing working IT for both Academia and ESPN.

 

[nerdynerdynerdy]

Fair point whodatrr, well argued. The new design is not for everyone.

For me working in broadcast TV, it's a good fit. And given this topic was about whether the computer is a success for the traditional Mac creative audience, I think it's a success.

 

[ActionableMango]

I will try to keep my posts here respectful and factual. No personal attacks, insults, dripping sarcasm, etc. If you respond to me personally, I hope and ask that you provide me with the same courtesy.

In my opinion, if the 2013 MP was simply an updated cMP design, I suspect everyone would be happy. For example, new Intel architecture, Thunderbolt, USB 3.0, WiFi AC, SATA3, etc., but still in the cMP chassis or something similar.

Here is, in my opinion, what we've lost by switching to the nMP design:

• 2 CPU sockets (now only 1)
• 8 memory slots (now only 4)
• Nvidia/CUDA video card option (now only AMD)
• A flexible number of video cards, from 0 to 4 (now exactly 2, no more, no less)
• Internal and external storage expansion (now external only)
• The ability to use many specialized video/audio/storage/interface PCIe cards, such as very high speed local storage, Blackmagic, Universal Audio, etc. (now limited to Thunderbolt options)
• The ability to upgrade video cards to options beyond what Apple initially offered

Here is, in my opinion, what we've gained by switching to the nMP design:

• Smaller, lighter case
• Fewer fans
• Less electricity and heat

I freely admit I'm not a pro, I'm an enthusiast. But I've seen a lot of pros here use features in that first list. Personally, I feel like we've lost an astonishing amount of options and flexibility, and gained very little in return.

I ask, respectfully, are my lists accurate? If they are accurate, do pros really prefer the gains in the second list over the losses in the first list? (Put another way, do you think the 2013 nMP is superior to a theoretical 2013 cMP?)

 

[nerdynerdynerdy]

I think your list is fair, although a plus you've missed (for my usage) is that an external, portable RAID means I can move a job to a laptop and take it on the road or to a client by unplugging one cable. My video hardware is already external on the old style Mac.

But I take your point that if the design was still a tower, but updated with all the fancy new connectors, then both our usage scenarios would be accommodated.

The new design does appeal to me in a way that the old one doesn't (not a practical concern of course), and was actually what made me start to think about upgrading.

 

[AidenShaw]

• A flexible number of video cards, from 0 to 4 (now exactly 2, no more, no less)

...
I ask, respectfully, are my lists accurate?

I would argue that it has exactly one video card, and exactly one headless GPGPU card.

 

[poematik13]

I freely admit I'm not a pro, I'm an enthusiast.

Then you shouldn't be talking, as the problem is that enthusiasts make negative threads about the 6,1 on all websites and it negatively affects the perception when the machine is perfectly fine and many PROS use and rely on it for projects- but they aren't the vocal minority who are posting so much FUD online

 

[ActionableMango]

Then you shouldn't be talking

Please explain how my position is wrong instead of just responding with an ad hominem* attack.

(* An argument or reaction directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.)

 

[996085]

Then you shouldn't be talking, as the problem is that enthusiasts make negative threads about the 6,1 on all websites and it negatively affects the perception when the machine is perfectly fine and many PROS use and rely on it for projects- but they aren't the vocal minority who are posting so much FUD online

Is it your assertion every professional is happy with the nMP?

 

[afterworks]

Well, for me it's been a huge success.

I went from a 3.1 to a 6 core.

I'm a lighting designer for shows and also a record producer/mixer. Weird combo I know.

Logic projects that were overloading the 3.1 suddenly dropped to hovering at 25% Cpu usage. It's incredibly quiet too, living next to my mixing console and I don't notice it.

I can understand some people with older Pro Tools cards not liking it. But then when it comes time to upgrade, Avid offer thunderbolt solutions now, and I'm pretty sure the nMP offers more than enough power to negate needing cards to run plug ins etc.

Same goes for UAD users. But then I just think UAD cards are just expensive anti piracy devices anyway, regardless of how nice the plug ins sound. Not sure I'd buy one these days anyway, the tech is pretty old and they're newer plug ins are pretty power hungry.

I guess for me, it came round at the perfect time. I needed a new powerful machine, I wasn't tied to any PCIE cards so it just made sense. It runs my Antelope and Metric Halo just fine.

I didn't really want to throw money at an ageing machine, and quite frankly, I just needed something to work without any messing about. Time is money and all that.

It doesn't look like the video cards actually add a lot of cost to it, so I don't mind them. Plus, they allow me to play the odd video game when I need a break. At least they're better than the **** the older machines came with!

I guess, if your at the point where things need upgrading, new sound card etc etc, it makes more sense than if you want to stick with older hardware.

So thats my little success story.

 

[DPUser]

You are right. I know for sure that Apple are losing professional audio users. Composers mainly I believe, but possibly also ProTools users. Because many people are questioning Apple's commitment to pro computers because of the nMP... Many people are jumping from Mac/Logic to PC/Cubase these days.

I have tried converting to Cubase many times but I just prefer OS X and Logic, but sometime if Apple don't commit to providing pro solutions I might as well be forced to go PC/Cubase.

Or try Digital Performer. Mac or PC.

 

[poematik13]

Is it your assertion every professional is happy with the nMP?

my assertion is that the macrumors anti-nMP hivemind is not indicative at all of what professionals think, because professionals are too busy working than to be on here complaining about a computer.

 

[MacVidCards]

my assertion is that the macrumors anti-nMP hivemind is not indicative at all of what professionals think, because professionals are too busy working than to be on here complaining about a computer.

Then I wonder who all of the digital Post Houses are that keep buying cards from us? Hollywood must be crawling with amateurs I guess.

Got an email last week to start upgrading a series of DIT carts at one of the bigger places here. Hadn't heard from them in years and thought they had moved to nMP or Windows. Worked out a quote and will be delivering the first couple next week.

The 580s I sold them 3 years ago are still working fine, they have a fleet of these carts all over the globe and are ready to try Maxwell cards in them. When I asked why they weren't using 6,1s the guy just laughed, he thought I was joking.

I get emails every single day from "Pros" around the world wanting info on cards for their cMP. There may very well be plenty of people using nMPs in the biz, but saying that all the real Pros are using 6,1s is utter nonsense.

There are use cases for both machines, but heavy GPU work requires....real GPUs.

 

[OS6-OSX]

because professionals are too busy working than to be on here complaining about a computer.

How many "U's" in presumptuous?
Let's see. After a "professional" finishes his or her's "busy work" does one have time for other activities or hobbies? Can visiting a forum be looked upon as a hobby or a "non-working"
activity? I was going to sit across from this gentleman and do what he is doing but I stopped by here instead!

 

[Mactrunk]

I will define myself as a professional, based on the fact that I have earned my living using a mac pro for many years.

Definition: (of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime: a professional boxer.

I have used a mac since the old 128K.

The latest mac pro was disappointing to me, but I wouldn't consider it a failure.
It is a really elegant design and for some professionals, I'm sure it is wonderful.
It is not for me.
First time I didn't jump in to the newest MP offering.

I sure wish Apple had continued the desk top aluminum paradigm.
If the cheese grater box was released with current hardware, I'd jump at the chance.
Not sure why Apple can't honor the loyal users.

They might even find some money there.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

my assertion is that the macrumors anti-nMP hivemind is not indicative at all of what professionals think, because professionals are too busy working than to be on here complaining about a computer.

Very scientific. We'll cite that you think that next to the scientific paper right after your problems with the scientific problems with this poll and no irony in that. Also, good to know everyone here is living the life of leisure and so listless as to have plenty of time, and there is no bias there. And I'm sure on the polls here if everyone loved the nMP or some other piece of hardware, those might be much more scientific. And there is no sign of perceptional bias or insulting position there at all. /s

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Then I wonder who all of the digital Post Houses are that keep buying cards from us? Hollywood must be crawling with amateurs I guess.

Got an email last week to start upgrading a series of DIT carts at one of the bigger places here. Hadn't heard from them in years and thought they had moved to nMP or Windows. Worked out a quote and will be delivering the first couple next week.

The 580s I sold them 3 years ago are still working fine, they have a fleet of these carts all over the globe and are ready to try Maxwell cards in them. When I asked why they weren't using 6,1s the guy just laughed, he thought I was joking.

I get emails every single day from "Pros" around the world wanting info on cards for their cMP. There may very well be plenty of people using nMPs in the biz, but saying that all the real Pros are using 6,1s is utter nonsense.

There are use cases for both machines, but heavy GPU work requires....real GPUs.

Why would you think you are some kind of professional when you are here posting. Dont you know that someone thinks different about your status so that means you're not professional. If you had a more positive attitude about the nMP and didn't visit this site, your opinion might have some worth.

 

[Simon R.]

Or try Digital Performer. Mac or PC.

No thank you. I don't like it. Tried it - Cubase is much better for me, but I still prefer Logic.

 

[Infrared]

Obviously, it is not for everyone, but it's an almost perfect match for what I need.

It's compact, quiet and allows me to get on efficiently with what I want to do (coding). Because it's quiet, operational noise does not distract or tire. Because it's compact, I have more choice over where to put it.

The MP I had before, I didn't add much to it internally. So it was a huge box half-full of air, an unfilled cabinet of sorts. That was not an optimal use of space. That old MP was a great machine in many ways. But I prefer the new one.

Not to mention the brilliantly conceived design of the nMP.

 

[H2SO4]

my assertion is that the macrumors anti-nMP hivemind is not indicative at all of what professionals think, because professionals are too busy working than to be on here complaining about a computer.

Please answer the question definitively.
Also please define ‘professional’.
Are you sure that Pro’s don’t frequent forums, I mean really?

 

[Lesser Evets]

Failure. Kinda.

The redesign was ahead of its time for such a machine, and it should have been released next year or beyond in that form. Future processing would allow that design to be a "Pro" machine.

"Pro" = super CPUs. The GPUs are also fairly necessary, but the CPU is more important.

Instead of upping the game, figuring out how to make 20 XEON CPUs in concert with 6 cores each, they chose to crimp the CPU down and make something unexpectedly average. The nMac Pro is a very nice desktop for average people or semi-Pro use. However, the price makes it stay comfortably out of nearly everyone's reach.

Thus: FAIL.

It would be nice if they update the Pros the very moment new CPUs are available. Again, another fail by Apple.

I think that part of the design direction was caused by "green" interests--carving back substance and watts--instead of user need. If I am going to render "the most complex crap ever", I want to do it in two minutes rather than 24 hours. Having a monster machine that eats electricity doesn't bother me when I get crazy speed and have 10x yearly productivity.

Apple's approach to computing is again a FAIL.

Their focus on iDevices is valid, but they aren't differentiating Pro computing from consumer computing.

 

[996085]

my assertion is that the macrumors anti-nMP hivemind is not indicative at all of what professionals think, because professionals are too busy working than to be on here complaining about a computer.

That doesn't answer my question.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

36 core zeons, 5 GPUs...
http://www.mediaworkstations.net/i-x2.html

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2887...-36-core-five-gpu-workstation-looks-like.html

64cores exist too
http://www.titancomputers.com/category-s/706.htm

Some crazy powerful boxes out there...

 

[NT1440]

Then I wonder who all of the digital Post Houses are that keep buying cards from us? Hollywood must be crawling with amateurs I guess.

Got an email last week to start upgrading a series of DIT carts at one of the bigger places here. Hadn't heard from them in years and thought they had moved to nMP or Windows. Worked out a quote and will be delivering the first couple next week.

The 580s I sold them 3 years ago are still working fine, they have a fleet of these carts all over the globe and are ready to try Maxwell cards in them. When I asked why they weren't using 6,1s the guy just laughed, he thought I was joking.

I get emails every single day from "Pros" around the world wanting info on cards for their cMP. There may very well be plenty of people using nMPs in the biz, but saying that all the real Pros are using 6,1s is utter nonsense.

There are use cases for both machines, but heavy GPU work requires....real GPUs.

Why is you're advertising account allowed to be active here? ALL I've ever seen you post is ways to drive traffic to your business?

 

[filmak]

Is the new Mac Pro a Failure for traditional Mac Creative and Professional customers?

This issue came up as part of another thread <#603> and thought it was an interesting topic.

I purposefully gave only two options to polarize this issue. No middle ground. Take a stand one way or another. I think this can be good feedback for Apple. Feel free to post your comments and reasons below.

So as we see by the results for some people it is a failure for some not so. Isn't this valid for every computer system? Yes, the difference is that other platforms have a great range of choices, but in Apple's line there aren't any of them, it's take it or leave it.

I personally think, as other MP users before me have also posted, that, there is a chance that it was too early for a system like this, as many pieces are still missing so it cannot be considered as a complete solution, of course for many people, and no I certainly don't and cannot know how many, its new form was very well accepted.

The perfect way to implement this transition would be, in my opinion, to have the two versions in parallel for a certain period of time, or forever, as different products, a more powerful cMP-like tower with dual CPUs, PCIe slots, as a more expandable system and this nMP for the people who really love it.

Many people have said that this is the new Cube, ok but there is a big difference, the Cube was placed - marketed as a single product, PowerMacs of the time were in a different category and stayed untouched.

Also many would say that this may be too much for Apple, (they already have too many other products) to maintain two similar lines, but as it seems the gap the cMP left wasn't covered by the nMP, because if it was covered, as we all understand, there wouldn't be any complaints, and this situation will certainly lead to a loss for Apple.

Me, and obviously other people, may be ok with our nMP but too many people complain about its shortcomings (and I do so some times) so there must be a problem, which no-one can reject, and this is a sign of a partial failure.

Anyway, failure or not, we have to rename at some point this nMP, as time passes, and this 2013 model is not so new anymore after two and a half years.

or is the lack of an update a failure too?