Is the new Mac Pro a failure?

[Max(IT)]

Right, because your sample size is the right one. And an entire forum dedicated to Mac Pro usage is an irrelevant data point when 2/3s views it as a failure. Good to know we have perspective of others going on here.

The numbers involved on this poll are statistically irrelevant ....

Of course it's not statistically accurate. However it is relevant that on a traditionally fanboy site, that there is a negative result. You want to avoid that more than fair inference, you're free to do so, but it says more about wanting to be contrarian than open to reasonable inference.

Except this isn't (anymore?) a traditionally fanboy site, but quite on the contrary a site visited by some serious haters/ PC users.

You're three years in the future - the MP6,1 is a 2013 model.

And THIS is the real reason the MP is a partially failure: no upgrade since the release.

They were purchased because, news flash, only the computer literate give a flying **** about these things. A normal business says "hey our three year lease on Mac Pros is up, time to buy new ones."

I have no idea where in the world anyone is talking about core counts, if the last generation worked, the new one is more powerful and all these people care about is getting their work done.

exactly this !
people here keep confusing the forum with the real world.

my assertion is that the macrumors anti-nMP hivemind is not indicative at all of what professionals think, because professionals are too busy working than to be on here complaining about a computer.

correct.
I'm sure many (if not most) of the vocal complainer here wouldn't buy a Mac Pro in any case....

OK, I finally made the jump to experiment with a PC workstation. Dell was running another big Black Friday Sales, so I got an additional 35% off their already discounted alienware Area 51-R2 gaming rigs. I'm not a big gamer, but my kids are getting old enough that I figured I can peak their interest. While this system is huge, that does;t matter since it'll be sitting hidden under a desk. It's also liquid cooled and supposed to be very quiet, especially when no overclocked.

I got:
- Big-assed chilled cabinet with tons of drive and card space (future-proofness?)
- 6 core i7-5820K Processor (5th Gen, but I don't think they have skyline in this class yet)
- NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 with 4GB GDDR5 (not the mobile version)
- Room for a couple more GPUs, should I ever want to add them
- 16GB DDR4 2133 RAM
- 2565SSD (Small, but I'm ordering a 1TB)
- 2TB Spinner (I'll Probably use RAID to make the 256SSD a cache for this drive)
- 2 yr warranty
- 5 drive bays, including a double SSD 2.5 bay, all pre-cables and ready to go
- Supports three full-sized double-wide GPUs, if I ever went there
- A bunch of other stuff.... really these things are pretty loaded

- Added a refurb 27" 4k display for another $360.

This system is built to be overclocked, vs the systems I'm coming from which are built to be throttled. I'm not sure if I'll ever need the overcooling, but I'm absolutely 100% positive that I do not want throttling! This is big, for me!

Total system, with display and extended support, was about $1,850 including tax. But I figure my 1TB SSD will be another $350, so $2,200 total, with 4k display and sales tax (free shipping).

If the kids really do get into gaming, I may slap in another GPU? But for now, this thing will kill just about anything I need to do. best of all, if I need to upgrade anything, I'll pop open the case and make it happen.

For what I do, I might have actually preferred a quad core 4.0. But the price was right, and there was a time when I never thought I'd need more than 1 core, so who knows what the future will bring?

and this post, while interesting on some aspects, is the demonstration this thread is totally wrong .... a gaming machine has very little to do with a workstation.
A Mac Pro isn't a gaming machine by any means, and judged as a PC like the one you configured surely could be seen as a "failure".

 

[koyoot]

Please, do not say this while I already have an Amazon shopping cart up!!! LOL

But seriously, I figure I'll add another 970- in a couple months.

5820K has only 28 PCIe 3.0 Lanes. So your computer lacks full 16x in dual setup. Max what you will be able to get from SLI is PCIe 3.0 x8 on both GPUs.


P.S. Everybody for themselves decides if a computer is a failure or not. Opinions are like ***holes. Everyone has one.

 

[H2SO4]

Except this isn't (anymore?) a traditionally fanboy site, but quite on the contrary a site visited by some serious haters/ PC users.

Oh god. This broken record again. Can you stop with this rubbish please? You think people come here deliberately to bad mouth Apple products when they could actually be spending time on themselves, I mean really?
Get a grip man.
You spend, (in the case of Apple products), lots of good money on something you then have good reason to vent. That’s how it is with premium Apple, (their description), products, if you don’t like us I’m sure there are a number of fanboy forums you can frequent.

 

[bladerunner2000]

The inability to change the GPU is the #1 reason why it's a failure. Nice try, Apple.

 

[koyoot]

bladerunner, can you change a NVlink GPU? Or have you not payed attention? And it will be at first workstation and enterprise markets.

http://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/NVIDIA-Pascal-GPU-Overview.png

Yes, that is HBM Pascal GPU. Quite similar looking to some sort of cards in particular computer from one particular vendor and completely not replaceable easily as typical PCIex solution. This solution is made specifically for GPU racks to which you can connect your computer.

Yes, this is future guys.

Yes, as supporting old technology and old image of high performance computing, nMP is a failure. But as a technology that can support future idea of High performance computing?

 

[AidenShaw]

bladerunner, can you change a NVlink GPU? Or have you not payed attention? And it will be at first workstation and enterprise markets.

http://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/NVIDIA-Pascal-GPU-Overview.png

Yes, that is HBM Pascal GPU. Quite similar looking to some sort of cards in particular computer from one particular vendor and completely not replaceable easily as typical PCIex solution. This solution is made specifically for GPU racks to which you can connect your computer.

Yes, this is future guys.

Yes, as supporting old technology and old image of high performance computing, nMP is a failure. But as a technology that can support future idea of High performance computing?

Pascal: Two form factors: PCI-Express board and Mezzanine High-Bandwidth Board

http://gadgetgeeks99.blogspot.com/2015/10/nvidia-pascal-gpus-rumored-to-feature.html
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/34373-pascal-to-come-as-pcie-and-mezzanine

Nice try, show a picture of the mezzanine card to imply that PCIe won't be supported.

 

[koyoot]

That is only what you understood from my post, Aiden.

I never stated that there will not be PCIex version of Pascal GPUs. I referred only to "THAT" form factor of GPU.

P.S. Im wondering in what form factor will come Pascal professional GPUs .

 

[flat five]

Oh god. This broken record again. Can you stop with this rubbish please? You think people come here deliberately to bad mouth Apple products when they could actually be spending time on themselves, I mean really?
Get a grip man.

huh? this isn't even a matter of opinion
people in this exact thread are doing what you're saying isn't happening.
there are certainly prominent voices around here who do nothing except bad mouth apple and/or insult the people who chose to use apple computers..
not sure why you can't see this happening around here.. it's pretty obvious.

 

[AidenShaw]

That is only what you understood from my post, Aiden.

I never stated that there will not be PCIex version of Pascal GPUs. I referred only to "THAT" form factor of GPU.

P.S. Im wondering in what form factor will come Pascal professional GPUs .

PCIe and Mezzanine.

 

[H2SO4]

huh? this isn't even a matter of opinion
people in this exact thread are doing what you're saying isn't happening.
there are certainly prominent voices around here who do nothing except bad mouth apple and/or insult the people who chose to use apple computers..
not sure why you can't see this happening around here.. it's pretty obvious.

Yep, they went out of their way here to bad mouth Apple. Doesn’t matter what they really think.
Finished work and thought despite spending all that money over the years on Apple products they would come and bad mouth Apple like that’s the raison d’etre.
So they have a different opinion does that mean they can’t voice it? Whatever your perception I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that most here are Apple enthusiasts despite what that guy keeps on saying ad nauseum every where he posts.
Sometimes those people, (that have spent a lot of money), want to vent and put forward an opinion. The amount of money spent I’d say justifies it.
If, (dead horse coming up), Apple sell me a very expensive as advertised 64 bit machine that isn’t supported past Lion due to a 32 bit EFI I’m gonna be pi**ed, and I will vent.

 

[flat five]

Yep, they went out of their way here to bad mouth Apple. Doesn’t matter what they really think.
Finished work and thought despite spending all that money over the years on Apple products they would come and bad mouth Apple like that’s the raison d’etre.
So they have a different opinion does that mean they can’t voice it? Whatever your perception I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that most here are Apple enthusiasts despite what that guy keeps on saying ad nauseum every where he posts.
Sometimes those people, (that have spent a lot of money), want to vent and put forward an opinion. The amount of money spent I’d say justifies it.
If, (dead horse coming up), Apple sell me a very expensive as advertised 64 bit machine that isn’t supported past Lion due to a 32 bit EFI I’m gonna be pi**ed, and I will vent.

i'm not even sure if 'spending money justifies bitching' (especially when what was advertised etc is what has been delivered) but whatever.. to each his own..

that aside, there are people (not just person) in this thread and more spread throughout the forum who don't even own/use macs.. yet they're still in here complaining about them and more to the point-> insulting the people who do..

honestly, i don't care.. it's not my problem.. it's theirs.. my point is more to do with your 'get a grip' post.. what you said doesn't happen around here does actually happen.

 

[MacVidCards]

i'm not even sure if 'spending money justifies bitching' (especially when what was advertised etc is what has been delivered) but whatever.. to each his own..

that aside, there are people (not just person) in this thread and more spread throughout the forum who don't even own/use macs.. yet they're still in here complaining about them and more to the point-> insulting the people who do..

honestly, i don't care.. it's not my problem.. it's theirs.. my point is more to do with your 'get a grip' post.. what you said doesn't happen around here does actually happen.

Says the guy who changed course from nMP to iMac because nMP didn't fit your needs.

If you can come here and vociferously defend a computer you didn't see fit to buy, why can't others do the opposite?

I have a 12 Core 6,1 and 2 @ 12 Core 4,1/5,1s. By your fine logic I have more rights to complain than almost anyone here.

People LOVE Apple products. Apple abandons an entire market and instead offers a dead end toy with limited future while simultaneously raising prices.

Less computer but costs more money.

Most rational people would call that a bad deal and not try to claim an International Mac Hater Conspiracy.

It was a great mid level machine, in 2013.

Today it is a sad joke. A $10,000 sad joke if built up with Apple's upgrades.

Hopefully Tim Cook ordered a clown & cake, the GPUs just had their 4th birthday. Who wants to sing?

 

[flat five]

Says the guy who changed course from nMP to iMac because nMP didn't fit your needs.

it actually fits my needs just fine.
the problem is that my software doesn't yet take advantage of the mac pro design.

i don't know what to tell you.. you just don't ever listen to it.
i've posted multiple times around here the conversations i've had with my software's developers and the decisions i was faced with a couple of years ago when needing a new desktop.

why you continue to harp on the 'oh..oh.. you bought an iMac' thing is just silly.. if you were in any way/shape/form interested in anything other than your own agenda then you'd probably pretty easily be able to say "oh, right.. i see your game plan.. i see what your software's developers are doing.. all seems going according to plan and a 7,1 will probably be a very good fit for you as you'll be faced with an entirely different scenario than you were in 2013"
but for whatever reasons, you simply can't speak on that type of level.

If you can come here and vociferously defend a computer you didn't see fit to buy, why can't others do the opposite?

you're going to have a very hard time finding me defending a computer.. i just argue all the stupid crap/logic/insults you guys spew.

I have a 12 Core 6,1 and 2 @ 12 Core 4,1/5,1s. By your fine logic I have more rights to complain than almost anyone here.

you're also going to have a very hard time showing that as my logic.. especially when the post directly above yours has me saying pretty much the exact opposite of what you're telling me my logic is.

me: ""i'm not even sure if 'spending money justifies bitching' (especially when what was advertised etc is what has been delivered) but whatever.. to each his own..""

People LOVE Apple products. Apple abandons an entire market and instead offers a dead end toy with limited future while simultaneously raising prices.

thing is, they didn't abandon an entire market..

to say 'mac pro is a failure for traditional mac creative and professional customers' is borderline ludicrous and shows how very little some people understand about what it's like to be a creative user.

apple has simply never made a better computer/environment for the creative and professional user..
you might find one customer out of 100,000 who was using something like octane renderer who couldn't use it on a 6,1 whereas they could on a 5,1 but this is a very rare use case.. like a small percentage of 1%.. but you guys will focus on these 7 people in the entire world as if it's the end-all-be-all.. (even though octane is now, or very soon to be, supporting 6.1+.

Less computer but costs more money.

entirely subjective..
yes, it costs more.. but 'less computer'?.. sure, if you're talking physical size.
capabilities however.. idk, i think it can do more and at a faster clip than any cmp out there.

i think if you actually used computers for things other than benchmarks, you'd recognize this pretty quickly..

Most rational people would call that a bad deal and not try to claim an International Mac Hater Conspiracy.

heh.. hyperbolize all you wish.. there's no mac hater conspiracy insinuation going on.. a lot of you guys are simply jerks and are very rude to others.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

The numbers involved on this poll are statistically irrelevant ....


Except this isn't (anymore?) a traditionally fanboy site, but quite on the contrary a site visited by some serious haters/ PC users.

Because you say so, it must be so. MaxIT the last word in all things. Quite implicitly more than a touch full of yourself to make such a decree.

If over a hundred votes in a mac pro forum on a mac pro topic are statistically irrelevant, your decree is ever more so.

huh? this isn't even a matter of opinion
people in this exact thread are doing what you're saying isn't happening.
there are certainly prominent voices around here who do nothing except bad mouth apple and/or insult the people who chose to use apple computers..
not sure why you can't see this happening around here.. it's pretty obvious.

It's not a matter of opinion because you say so. This is becoming a theme here. Posts pointing out how anything negative is a sign that this forum has changed filled with irrelevant voices, except your own who sees so clearly for the rest of us irrelevant souls. What is obvious is your own bias.

why you continue to harp on the 'oh..oh.. you bought an iMac' thing is just silly.. if you were in any way/shape/form interested in anything other than your own agenda

Good lord, the levels of hypocrisy in this statement alone are just outstanding. Dr. heal thyself. Pot meet kettle.

to say 'mac pro is a failure for traditional mac creative and professional customers' is borderline ludicrous and shows how very little some people understand about what it's like to be a creative user.

Right, because anyone that needs more than 1TB of local storage is clearly not a pro. Clearly. And once you start snaking ugly storage boxes via thunderbolt, and making a mess of the pretty design, that's not a sign of the design failing at it's own design goals (aesthetics, low fan noise, low energy draw, etc.), and frankly, since you say so, that's all that matters, because this forum is just filled with anti apple haters, again, because you said so, and what more proof do you need than that.

Dude, you honestly don't see what a typical forum bully you are do you? BTW, that's rhetorical, and sarcastic.

 

[MacVidCards]

it actually fits my needs just fine.
the problem is that my software doesn't yet take advantage of the mac pro design.

i don't know what to tell you.. you just don't ever listen to it.
i've posted multiple times around here the conversations i've had with my software's developers and the decisions i was faced with a couple of years ago when needing a new desktop.

why you continue to harp on the 'oh..oh.. you bought an iMac' thing is just silly.. if you were in any way/shape/form interested in anything other than your own agenda then you'd probably pretty easily be able to say "oh, right.. i see your game plan.. i see what your software's developers are doing.. all seems going according to plan and a 7,1 will probably be a very good fit for you as you'll be faced with an entirely different scenario than you were in 2013"
but for whatever reasons, you simply can't speak on that type of level.


you're going to have a very hard time finding me defending a computer.. i just argue all the stupid crap/logic/insults you guys spew.


you're also going to have a very hard time showing that as my logic.. especially when the post directly above yours has me saying pretty much the exact opposite of what you're telling me my logic is.

me: ""i'm not even sure if 'spending money justifies bitching' (especially when what was advertised etc is what has been delivered) but whatever.. to each his own..""



thing is, they didn't abandon an entire market..

to say 'mac pro is a failure for traditional mac creative and professional customers' is borderline ludicrous and shows how very little some people understand about what it's like to be a creative user.

apple has simply never made a better computer/environment for the creative and professional user..
you might find one customer out of 100,000 who was using something like octane renderer who couldn't use it on a 6,1 whereas they could on a 5,1 but this is a very rare use case.. like a small percentage of 1%.. but you guys will focus on these 7 people in the entire world as if it's the end-all-be-all.. (even though octane is now, or very soon to be, supporting 6.1+.


entirely subjective..
yes, it costs more.. but 'less computer'?.. sure, if you're talking physical size.
capabilities however.. idk, i think it can do more and at a faster clip than any cmp out there.

i think if you actually used computers for things other than benchmarks, you'd recognize this pretty quickly..


heh.. hyperbolize all you wish.. there's no mac hater conspiracy insinuation going on.. a lot of you guys are simply jerks and are very rude to others.

Talk is cheap, gibberish even cheaper apparently.

And as it appears this thread attracts more intelligent and sensible people (the ones you just called "jerks") I'll let your diatribe stand on its own, no rebuttal required. Just more filler from "the most user friendly standard screw (ball) available"

 

[flat five]

It's not a matter of opinion because you say so.

what? ask aiden or tux or wally or blaze rudder etc what computers they're using.

it's not a matter of opinion because it's not. there are people here that don't use macs. that's a fact.
why so upset about me saying that?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

heh.. hyperbolize all you wish.. there's no mac hater conspiracy insinuation going on.. a lot of you guys are simply jerks and are very rude to others.

man, you are perhaps the most hypocritical and most self-unaware poster I've ever seen on the internet, which is saying quite a lot.

 

[flat five]

Good lord, the levels of hypocrisy in this statement alone are just outstanding. Dr. heal thyself. Pot meet kettle.

I don't even know what you're talking about.. srry
(like really, I don't)

 

[flat five]

man, you are perhaps the most hypocritical and most self-unaware poster I've ever seen on the internet, which is saying quite a lot.

ok?
thanks?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

what? ask aiden or tux or wally or blaze rudder etc what computers they're using.

it's not a matter of opinion because it's not. there are people here that don't use macs. that's a fact.
why so upset about me saying that?

No, let me give you a lesson in reasoning. You saying so, doesn't make it so. And so far, it's just you spouting off your opinions. Which is fine, that's what this forum is all about, and others like it. But you saying so, doesn't make it so. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT SIMPLE BASIC TENANT!? And I'm upset because you are obliviously insulting people and you think when you s**t on them they should thank you and tell you it tastes like chocolate and note how brilliant you are for it.

Let me be the first in the last minute to tell you it aint so.

I don't even know what you're talking about.. srry
(like really, I don't)

And, no doubt, that is the problem.

Ok, on the off chance that you honestly don't understand the problem, painting EVERYONE or most people on this forum as being anti mac/apple is an insultingly large broad brush. Put in any minority group in it's place, and think about what it would be like for that minority group to be labeled as a bunch of haters or whatever it is you want to label them.

I quickly granted to you that the poll is obviously not statistically relevant. However, you don't see how your broad strokes are way less statistically valid. Yet because you say so, we should take it on faith. That is hypocritical. One of many of your hypocrisies in the posts.

Try and be a little kindlier to the people that post here, is my advice. And if it's such a negative group of mac pro/apple haters, one wonders why you revel in it so and haven't found greener pastures.

ok?
thanks?

It's not a complement.

 

[flat five]

Because you say so, it must be so. MaxIT the last word in all things. Quite implicitly more than a touch full of yourself to make such a decree.

If over a hundred votes in a mac pro forum on a mac pro topic are statistically irrelevant, your decree is ever more so.

what do you think apple would say if you showed them a poll saying 40% of respondents think Mac Pro is a success?

bummed or hyped?
more or less than they'd expect?

further, do you think it's possible apple knows more about their users and users needs than you do?

you collect info from a hundred people and think it's relevant? they collect info from millions.. you get that, right?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

what do you think apple would say if you showed them a poll saying 40% of respondents think Mac Pro is a success?

bummed or hyped?
more or less than they'd expect?

further, do you think it's possible apple knows more about their users and users needs than you do?

you collect info from a hundred people and think it's relevant? they collect info from millions.. you get that, right?

First of all, way to change the topic.

And I think apple doesn't care about the pro market. They have spoken with their deeds. But as I know more than a few people that work there, I can say, what many of them think is also not a consistent pool. What matters is what the folks on top think, and sadly, Tim Cook and I are not part of the same bingo club.

And I think that there are MANY times when users know more about themselves than apple.

They missed the rip MP3 market instead focusing on DVDs (Steve Jobs himself said so).
They missed the large phone market that Samsung took advantage of.
They missed the boat with the cube, something that apple wanted and not their users.

So they are far from infallible. And in this case, yea, I think this poll is an indication that apple doesn't know what their pros want as much as the pros do. Then again, because you say so, this is only apple haters. Never mind that they own mac pros (older ones and clutch on to them), what the heck do they matter, because they are all such haters that they spent thousands to tens of thousands of dollars on their older mac pros just to spite apple! That'll show'em!

 

[MacVidCards]

The hilarious thing is Five Flat is actually agreeing with us.

In June of 2013 he was all excited about the shiny new computer and trying to decide if he was going to get the 4 core or the 8 core or...

But then, this owner of a cMP discovered that:

"the problem is that my software doesn't yet take advantage of the mac pro design"

Which was true for many in 2013, and even more true now as we enter into 2016. There just isn't a good way to put a nMP to use. So instead of buying what he PLANNED to buy (a 6,1 nMP) Flat Five went and got a different computer.

Which is exactly the point so many of us cMP lovers have been trying to make. The nMP fails to be an evolution of the machine we were using, and fails to be the machine we want to buy to get work done. And here is one of the most ardent, feverish supporters of nMP AGREEING with us. It wasn't good enough for him either, he too went and bought something else.

The hilarious thing is, not able to see the forest for the trees. Here he has been agreeing with us, without even realising he was. "The 6,1 is pretty, but doesn't do what I need it to do, so I can't justify buying one. It isn't the right computer for me." And while FF may not have voted so in this poll, he actually voted that way with his wallet.

The unpleasant smug arrogance is the repetitive "It may not be the right computer for me, but it is the right computer for lots of other people, I know it for a FACT".

 

[flat five]

It's not a complement.

i didn't think it was.
but read what you're saying. it's hot air with zero content except maybe in your own head.
i'm telling you i don't know what you're talking about but you just keep on blabbing the same crap

 

[flat five]

And I think apple doesn't care about the pro market.

then why the heck would you buy from them?
if you're in this pro market you speak of and don't think apple builds the computers you need.. then move on.
seriously, go buy a freaking computer that suits you.

so what.
who cares.
the only people interested in hearing you babble on about this are others who also like to babble on about this.