My hot air is in response to your totally rude and obnoxiously opinionated degradation of all posters here. Your failure to comprehend is fair and telling enough.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Is the new Mac Pro a failure?
- Thread starter ZombiePhysicist
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
My hot air is in response to your totally rude and obnoxiously opinionated degradation of all posters here. Your failure to comprehend is fair and telling enough.
for clarity.. the problem was that the rewrite was (and has) going to take a couple of years.. instead of a few months as i was originally hoping.
dude.. all you're saying is insults.
there is zero content.
there's not even anything to respond to unless i just want to throw blind insults back at you.
i'm absolutely positive i could throw some real zingers back at you but they'd be just as hollow as your words.
Um that is exactly the problem. A lot of people DO NOT WANT to move on. They want apple to make a product broad enough to serve the pro market. Not the pro market according to flat five, but the pro market that they have traditionally served for decades. The fact that apple has shifted away from lots of users is problematic to those users. Your glib 'hit the road jack' comments are pretty obnoxiously condescending and insensitive to that plight. Lots of people have invested tons of money in the platform over decades, and to be abandoned, isn't a fun time for them.
Well you seem quite interested in demeaning them. If you're so not interested in them or this thread, why don't you prove it with deeds and not deeds that are completely counter to your words.
Last edited:
You are not suppose to see any of this! Give in and have a piece of cake, blow out the candles and wash it down with some kool-aid!
the computer works.. it's in just about every possible way faster than anything they've built before.
it seems your entire premise for it no longer being a professional machine is that you can't put 5 hard drives inside. is that right?
am i understanding you correctly?
----
edit- by the way
what , exactly, do you use your computer(s) for? what software? got any samples of your work?
and what, exactly, can't you do on a 6,1 that you could on a 5,1?
just looking for some perspective here..
i've seriously never seen someone answer these types of questions in a way to back up the claims of 'creative pros have been abandoned'.. or "i can no longer do ____" because apple has abandoned me.
as far as i can gather, every 6,1 user who has responded in this thread has responded positively.. and you guys just ignore those posts and focus on the ones that say "i can't sip mvc's koolaid and put one of his hacked gpus in a 6,1"
Last edited:
Not entirely. It doesn't have to be 5 drives. They don't allow the changing of video cards, the use of PCI cards, and greater storage capacity. So basically 2 things. PCI and more storage flexibility. So if they had say 2 3.5" drives and 2 PCI slots, maybe 3 more SSD slots, in addition to what is currently in the trashcan mac, I suspect that the poll results would be 90% think it's a success and 10% a failure. It just needs a little bit more flexibility.
Apple cannot make a machine that will satisfy all pros in all walks of life. But the point is did they succeed in making a machine that would serve a really healthy middle portion of that pro market. They have failed at that. No doubt, there is a smaller portion of the pro market that the trashcan mac is a hugely great machine for them, but did apple address enough of that pro market in breadth. As much as they used to with the cMP? The answer is clearly no.
And the question is why abandon them? Did apple knowingly abandon that extra breadth of pro user or was the trashcan more of an experiment with their thinking it would work well for the same breadth. I have no idea. But I do know that a sizable and very traditionally mac portion of the pro market is not being served well by the new model. Maybe apple doesn't care. Maybe they do and will change the next mac pro to help that now unaddressed portion of pro users out! Maybe this kind of feedback is useful. Maybe they just laugh at it. That I don't know.
But I'm not so callous as to put down people that have spent tens of thousands of dollars on apple equipment in the past and start calling them haters when they have fair reasons for feeling that apple has abandoned them after they have invested decades of time and money on the platform.
I was in love with my 2008 Mac Pro. Upped it over time with the Radeon 7950, 16 GB RAM and SSD.
Later I made the choice to go iMac as the nMP couldn't fit my needs.
Does anyone have sales-figures regarding the adoption of the nMP?
i.e. how many cMP users have upgraded to the nMP, and how many have ditched it (either gone to Windows-based WorkStations or iMac)
Later I made the choice to go iMac as the nMP couldn't fit my needs.
Does anyone have sales-figures regarding the adoption of the nMP?
i.e. how many cMP users have upgraded to the nMP, and how many have ditched it (either gone to Windows-based WorkStations or iMac)
right.. you want to modify the thing.. i get that.
but what really matters (at least to me) in the way you've worded your poll etc is if macs are downshifting to toys and serious work can't be done on them.
but to me, now is a better time than ever to use mac in a professional setting.. there is more professional grade software available than ever before that has gained mac support.. and, according to the developers of my software, apple themselves have been a great help in making this happen.
if you want slots and huge drives in your machine then you're not going to get that with nmp.. obvious, right? but at least word your poll more like "did apple abandon slots and drives in 6,1?" instead of "did apple abandon creative users?".. because the former is true.. the latter isn't.. you can do everything on a 6,1 as you could on a 5,1.. in fact, you can do more.. much more.. there's more software now for mac than there was in 2012.. and the software that was available in 2012 now runs better than it did back then.. apple didn't break anything.. they haven't prevented you from getting work done.. they haven't made it harder to get work done.
---
i don't need 5 drives in my machine.. if i need 5 drives, i'd much rather have them available to all my computers/devices.. such is the set up i have now.. i have 5 drives and they can all be accessed by any computer/device i use at any given time.. either single local drive or wirelessly (and seamlessly i should add) from any of the other computers.
this is a huge advantage to me and as far as i can gather, just about any professional computer user out there.. way (way!) better than having all that data locked up inside one box.
while you can sit there and say you need 5 drives in one, i think you should also at least be able to say 'hmm, i understand that this dude has a point.. i understand that he actually prefers to have easy access to all data from multiple points.. i understand that it's possible putting all eggs in one basket may be an older paradigm and i'm simply not ready to shift into the next decade and find more beneficial storage methods'
(or at least something along those lines)
My understanding is that apple doesn't report any break down of mac sales and report it all as a big monolithic block. I'm not even sure if they report laptop vs desktop anymore? But would love to hear the breakdowns if someone knows otherwise.
Um, "toy" is not part of the poll. That's YOUR read. It asks if you think it's a success or a failure. If you want to ask a different question, feel free to make your own poll.
So you get your one vote. But apparently you think your one vote is the only that matters and that the rest must be haters. Because you don't need more drives, then no one does! Because a wireless connection works for YOU, then everyone else is a hater when it doesn't work for them.
That's fair enough for you. But for others, they may need 4TB of super fast SSD work because when they work on 4K video or huge heavy photoshop work, that helps them as it means they can composite in real time and not load video clips for hours over wireless. Or, they may need say 15-30TB of fast local array storage because they're working on a movie or several video projects, because, again, the local storage is the difference between real time compositing vs. downloading clips over hours of time on wireless networks (and not needing to deal with space management, as 1TB of local storage might not even be enough for small scenes of video they are compositing).
Pros will have a larger diversity of needs than the consumer market. There are pro writers that maybe do podcasts, and for them, the Mac Pro is perfect (if not overkill). But there are pros in the sciences. There are pros in illustration. Pros in web development. Pros in video work. Pros in photography. And I'm sure a bunch I can't think of off hand. They will have disparate needs. And what the cMP pro offered them was flexibility to tailor the tool to their specific weird needs. That flexibility is diminished for THEM.
Putting down others as haters simply because their needs are different is rather intolerant and insulting. More over, look how insulting you are. I said maybe 2 drive's and for rhetorical effect you go back to your 5 drives. You just denigrate others with different needs from your own, just saying, they don't really know what they need, you know better.
Zombie, be very careful.
Flat Five wants this thread shut down and you silenced. This is his standard modus operandi. If a thread veers into a place that makes the nMP or he look ridiculous/foolish/wrong, etc he will wander in, drop his drawers and take a poo in the thread. When others come and argue with him, he incites to a point where some TOS get crossed. Then SOMEONE on the Kool-Aid Aficionado team hits the "report" button. The mods are mildly interested at best and don't see the pattern.
Another thread gets shut down and quickly sinks to the bottom, another voice of reason silenced. You can't win an argument with someone who refuses to acknowledge when they are clearly wrong. For a great example, search for "the most user friendly standard screw available".
I only point this out because I think the existence of this thread is important and it is clearly being assaulted using those tactics.
Flat Five wants this thread shut down and you silenced. This is his standard modus operandi. If a thread veers into a place that makes the nMP or he look ridiculous/foolish/wrong, etc he will wander in, drop his drawers and take a poo in the thread. When others come and argue with him, he incites to a point where some TOS get crossed. Then SOMEONE on the Kool-Aid Aficionado team hits the "report" button. The mods are mildly interested at best and don't see the pattern.
Another thread gets shut down and quickly sinks to the bottom, another voice of reason silenced. You can't win an argument with someone who refuses to acknowledge when they are clearly wrong. For a great example, search for "the most user friendly standard screw available".
I only point this out because I think the existence of this thread is important and it is clearly being assaulted using those tactics.
My personal home workstation has a hex core Xeon E5-1650v2 (3.5Ghz) with 128 GiB of RAM (eight slots with standard 16GiB 1866 MHz DIMMs), a 4GiB GTX960 with two Dell 4K P2715Q monitors and a 1920x1200 monitor, four internal SSDs, a BD-RE optical and a DVD-RW optical.
For external storage, there's an LSI-9750-8e SAS RAID controller (48 Gbps) connected to an 8-bay Sans Digital chassis with a 20TB (usable - 6x4TB) RAID-5 volume and a 16 TB (usable - 2x8TB) RAID-0 volume. There are two Highpoint 644LS external 4 port eSATA controllers (24 Gbps each) with an additional 70+ TB of storage in Sans Digital SATA port multiplier enclosures.
I have a couple of PCIe slots unoccupied for future needs.
Which MP6,1 model would you suggest to replace this?
But, of course, a cMP could come close.
___________________
At work a low end system would be 24 cores with 256 GiB of RAM and dual 10 GbE. The file servers have quad or hex GbE, and whatever storage (DAS or SAN) is needed. I have two standard storage buys -
- For performance storage, a 2U shelf with 30TB in 25 2.5" 1.2TB 10K SAS drives (24TB usable in 4-way RAID-50 with hot spare).
- For archival or non-performance critical stuff - a 2U shelf with 72 TB in 12 3.5" 6TB SAS drives (48TB usable in 2-way RAID-60).
Last edited:
you really think i voted in the poll?
yeah.. because that's what i said or even implied
look.. the computer is designed to be used with mass storage being outside the case.. you, at the very least, recognize this, right?
i'm just saying there are some serious advantages to using any computer in that manner.. nowhere did i say 'this works for me so it will work for everybody'.. nowhere
i'm saying there are advantages to using computers this way.. do you recognize them? (regardless of what you want or wish or whatever)
so if someone needs 4TB of fast ssd, are you saying they can't do this with a mac pro.. (or any modern mac for that matter).. i mean, you're talking like they can't but i know (and you know) they can. and do.
all you're saying is they can't have the drives inside the case.. what kind of point is that? do you really think any single person doesn't recognize this? are you trying to explain to me that there's only one 1TB drive inside a mac pro that's currently available in a configuration? because if so, i already know that. ok?
why not just say "i want drives inside the case instead of outside" instead of trying to imply "i can't edit videos on mac pro" when in fact you can.. and people do. pros do. pros in this thread do..
that's why your argument comes off as baloney.. you're not calling it for what it really is.
do you know what 'haters' means? it's basically the opposite of apologist.. they're both fairly mellow words that sometimes get misinterpreted by the insultee..
apologist: aperson who offers an argument in defense of something controversial
hater: a negative or critical person
actually-- i've asked you directly what your needs are and you won't answer.. so i just fill in the blanks with my own whatever.. if you want to clarify then feel free.. from #162 but here it is again:
by the way
what , exactly, do you use your computer(s) for? what software? got any samples of your work?
and what, exactly, can't you do on a 6,1 that you could on a 5,1?
just looking for some perspective here..
i've seriously never seen someone answer these types of questions in a way to back up the claims of 'creative pros have been abandoned'.. or "i can no longer do ____" because apple has abandoned me.
as far as i can gather, every 6,1 user who has responded in this thread has responded positively.. and you guys just ignore those posts and focus on the ones that say "i can't sip mvc's koolaid and put one of his hacked gpus in a 6,1"
Last edited:
uhh.. what?
i told the dude there are people in this thread that don't use macs.. and he told me that was just my opinion.. and i say no, it's a fact.. and used you as an example that it's a fact.
i don't care what computer you use.
why the heck would i want that? seriously, that's just stupid.
i could give a flying duck about what zombie or you or half the people here says.. if everyone here just said smart or helpful stuff then it wouldn't be funny around here anymore. (though it might actually change from an entertainment center to a valuable resource)
you'll never be silenced.. that is until the exact second you figure out a way to hock your wares to nmp owners.. then you'll change your tune very quickly "oh.. it's not so bad after all"
it's not a matter of if but when.
And you utterly failed to see the point that Apple is failing to support a big class of prosumer and professional users, and forcing them to move to Linux or Windows. An MP6,1 would be a total fail for me.
I've always said that the MP6,1 is a great upgrade to the MiniMac - and a tragic downgrade for the cMP.
ps: Take your keyboard to the Genius Bar and have it checked. It looks like the shift key is broken.
Last edited:
again- uhh..what?
what are you responding to? is it anything to do with what was said or why i mentioned your name?... as a refresher:
that's the chain of posts that led to your name being mentioned.. not sure where you're getting linux and whatnot from
Exactly what have you done for the mac community? Huh? Any big contributions you can speak of? MVC provides a service that many benefit from? What's your big contribution? If you don't have one, have the state of mind to understand how unimpressively your petty comments look.
Key words, traditionally/decades. I don't think we will be going the traditional box with slots forever. We can see this with how desktops have a downward spiral. I think eventually it will carry over to the Pro side eventually. While some people think Apple is abandoning the pro market, perhaps the Pro's don't want to adapt to the changing technology and market.
Well this is a very fair point. And there certainly is some 'art' to choosing when something needs to be abandoned. It's a question of timing. Apple has abandoned the floppy, the optical drive, the spinning hard drive with a lot of deftness. And perhaps when we get to thunderbolt 5 or something, it will be good enough for most pros bandwidth wise that a lot of their needs can be handled externally.
Apple/Steve Jobs has also been profoundly premature in the past too. The NeXT cube magneto optical drive as a sole drive was way way too early and they ended up going back to hard drives and even floppy drives because people just practically still needed them.
So here, there is a fair amount of debate, but I'd put forth, the numbers on the poll are telling that perhaps we could still do with PCI and some more internal storage flexibility for another few generations of mac pro before, most pros are well served by something dramatic.
I actually dig that apple tried it. It's good to try and push the envelope. Here, i think they pushed a bit early, and hope that they are deft enough to understand that, and provide something a bit more traditional in design for a while longer while it's still needed.
- Status