Is the new Mac Pro a failure?

[koyoot]

Wow. You just don't understand the difference between meeting customers' needs and furthering Apple's agenda. And only with an Apple desktop are you "stuck" with a particular video card....

Sooner or later if you continue to tell people that "you're holding it wrong" they're going to say "goodbye - I'm not holding it any more".

Find what meet your needs and get over. The problem, as I said before in another thread is not with the computer but with people needs.

Top of the line D700 cards vs mid range cards in SLI. That is nothing to boast about. Keep in mind my graphics cards in total cost ~$600.00.

Plus to compare my results to the OS X results.

Face Detection: Mac Pro: 70.387 mPixels/s Mine: 122.2 mPixels/s
TV-L1 Optical Flow: Mac Pro: 16.514 mPixels/s Mine: 23.241 mPixels/s
Ocean Surface Simulation: Mac Pro: 1277.726 Frames/s Mine: 1548.1 Frames/s
Particle Simulation - 64k: Mac Pro: 430.375 mInteraction/s Mine: 1272.2 mInteraction/s
T-Rex: Mac Pro: 6.427 Frames/s Mine: 8.5835 Frames/s
Video Composition: Mac Pro: 91.549 Frames/s Mine: 99.822 Frames/S
Bitcoin Mining: Mac Pro: 421.183 mHash/s Mine: 474.42 mHash/s

So there you have it. nVidia with a Core i7 and two mid range cards beats the dated 2013 Mac Pro with a old CPU and junk D700 cards in every single test on what is supposed to be Apple's strong suit. Then on the other tech solution the results are more like a slaughter.

Edit:

It's important to note I am not bashing Apple. Instead I am frustrated the they have an awesome platform but they are always crippling their machines and ripping people off with old chips.

http://cdn.sweclockers.com/artikel/diagram/10130?key=6e3c39edaaa5f182742dac364baf5b54
Luxmark is proper OpenCL compute benchmark. 7970 has the same core which is in D700. And in Mac Pro there are two of them. Fair enough?

P.S. Explain to me. Why Mac Pro 5.1 with R9 280X is 3.5 times faster in Final Cut Pro using OpenCL than the same machine with GTX970 in the same application?

 

[linuxcooldude]

Wow. You just don't understand the difference between meeting customers' needs and furthering Apple's agenda. And only with an Apple desktop are you "stuck" with a particular video card....

Sooner or later if you continue to tell people that "you're holding it wrong" they're going to say "goodbye - I'm not holding it any more".

Lol...its not about Apple meeting customers needs, its about a customer not meeting their own needs. A Pro needs to decide what product is best for their own use, not forcing that product to conform to what they think is best for everybody. If that means moving to a PC windows or even a Linux box, fine.

If Apple choices are not for you then its probably time to decide on another platform. Do I wish windows did not have a registry and a fragmenting file system? You bet! But Im not going to try to redesign it or go on a windows forum to complain about it. I go to the products that best suit my needs and thats Linux & Mac OSX.

Find what meet your needs and get over. The problem, as I said before in another thread is not with the computer but with people needs.

Did not see this this until I already posted, but exactly!

 

[Daisy81]

I can bring it up to a 980 and Nvidia still gets destroyed in benchmarks skewed towards pro apps:
https://compubench.com/compare.jsp?benchmark=compu15d&did1=27734468&os1=OS X&api1=cl&hwtype1=dGPU&hwname1=AMD+Radeon+HD+-+FirePro+D700+Compute+Engine&did2=22357886&os2=OS X&api2=cl&hwtype2=dGPU&hwname2=NVIDIA+GeForce+GTX+980

Nvidia cards just aren't great for pro applications. That's the problem Apple has with them. Nvidia tries to hide the performance issues by using CUDA, which can't be benched against an AMD card. It's going to be embarrassing for Nvidia if AMD's new CUDA transcoder runs CUDA faster on AMD cards vs. Nvidia cards, but I think it's probably going to happen.

As far as I can tell, this is just a single D700. This is your dual cards against a single D700, and your dual cards are just barely staying ahead of a single AMD card.

You should know very well that OS X only supports one card. You tried to pull a fast one with a dual card windows benchmark to try to make up for the bad performance. If you want to compare against two D700s running under Windows, I'm sure I can dig that up, but all the numbers I've provided so far are single card.

You are dead set on only looking at OS X results. You do realize that the only machines running nVidia and OS X are hacks with questionable drivers and cMPs which bless their hearts where awesome machines but are hopelessly outdated to even be a fair comparison.

You act like I cheated. Oh I'm sorry better results don't count because I'm using a different OS. I must be doing it wrong. You tried to say AMD was better. Clearly it's not.

You have your head in the sand. This is exactly the reason why I'm running Windows on my main machine instead of OS X and why I voted the nMP a failure. Thank you for proving my point earlier.

You may not like the truth but there it is. The nMP is a expensive machine that gets beat in every way by what in PC land is a very nice machine but no where near as top end as Apple claims to be. The nMP could have been so much more if they where not trying to dictate to the customer and save money while gouging ridiculous amounts of money. They claim it is because the machine is small. My view on it, no one asked them to make the thing small.

Apple doesn't care about the Pro market. Apple perceives them as a pain in the butt. Apple has created their own monopoly where you can not get OS X anywhere else and as such they don't have to compete with hardware. This is why their machines are usually outdated and slow. However Windows has improved significantly in the last ten years.

I didn't try to pull anything fast. I'm insulted. You're the one that pulled a fast one. I was very upfront about benching my windows machine. The screen shot is Windows 10. It's the machine I built because the nMP was disappointing in 2013 and now it is old and disappointing. You said nVidia sucks and can't do professional tasks. I showed you two consumer cards by nVidia beating the D700 in the Mac. So I guess we see see some very real evidence that Apple needs to improve their machines to be good for professional software if Windows can run consumer equipment and be faster in professional software.

You keep fixating on the fact that I have two GTX 970 cards. You need to focus on price to performance ratio. Two GTX 970 cards cost $600. Two D700 cards for Apple cost roughly $1500. (Link) That is not a good return on investment.

 

[Daisy81]

Find what meet your needs and get over. The problem, as I said before in another thread is not with the computer but with people needs.

http://cdn.sweclockers.com/artikel/diagram/10130?key=6e3c39edaaa5f182742dac364baf5b54
Luxmark is proper OpenCL compute benchmark. 7970 has the same core which is in D700. And in Mac Pro there are two of them. Fair enough?

P.S. Explain to me. Why Mac Pro 5.1 with R9 280X is 3.5 times faster in Final Cut Pro using OpenCL than the same machine with GTX970 in the same application?

I don't have a Mac Pro to be able to look at it and tell you. I don't use Final Cut Pro. I use Premiere.

Give me a moment and I'll install that bench and run it on my machine as long as it is free.

 

[koyoot]

http://www.luxmark.info/node/1514

For comparison, single D700 in this test.

 

[flat five]

You are dead set on only looking at OS X results. You do realize that the only machines running nVidia and OS X are hacks with questionable drivers and cMPs which bless their hearts where awesome machines but are hopelessly outdated to even be a fair comparison.

(just sayin)

 

[Daisy81]

View attachment 608567

(just sayin)

I'm getting a error when I click the link.

 

[flat five]

I'm getting a error when I click the link.

not a link.. it's an embedded attachment/image.. probably something wonky on your end..
just a screenshot of a late 2013 imac with nvidia 780m

 

[Roykor]

Its easy to say that ppl simply need to find a other machine to fit there needs, while they would love to stay with an Apple machine or OSX. I know thats the reality, it is also very frustrating. My history with Apple is not so long. But the tools i use (adobe) has an very long history with Apple and hey, Apple was "the" machine to buy when you are creative. Even my customers say it.. off course, your work with an Apple machine right?

The older Mac Pro's where much more flexible for all kind of sectors to use. Heavily video editors to hardcore still image manipulators like me.

I feel frustration. For me its a missing machine in the middle. A Mac Pro light. A headless Mac with a bit more muscle than the iMac. I don't want to leave, but i have to. I don't want to spend 7000 euro + an file storage solution only to stay and barley use 50% of the hardware inside (my tools don't care about an dual gpu or ECC memory). So, keep in mind that some here are bashing because they are sad.

 

[Daisy81]

not a link.. it's an embedded attachment/image.. probably something wonky on your end..
just a screenshot of a late 2013 imac with nvidia 780m

That's odd it seems to be working now.

That is a consumer mobile graphics chip that is old. No offense it is a very nice iMac but that is not a fair comparison to a D700.

I ran the LuxMark 3.1 bench mark and got this for a result for CPU + GPU. I'll run the test with each part on it's own shortly.

 

[koyoot]

So, keep in mind that some here are bashing because they are sad.

Your post is exact epitome of what Im experiencing with Mac Pro. I do not need ECC, and Dual GPU setup, I would rather have one big GPU in a headless computer. And yet, I'm not bashing Mac Pro for that.

That's odd it seems to be working now.

That is a consumer mobile graphics chip that is old. No offense it is a very nice iMac but that is not a fair comparison to a D700.

I ran the LuxMark 3.1 bench mark and got this for a result for CPU + GPU. I'll run the test with each part on it's own shortly.

You've checked the LuxBall benchmark, not Hotel one.

Here you have a benchmark of the same as your test made on nMP 2013 with D700 and 8 core CPU: http://www.tonymacx86.com/graphics/147035-post-os-x-luxmark-opencl-benchmarks-7.html#post1150080

And here is the same benchmark with another renderer http://www.hardwareluxx.com/index.p...d-gigabyte-gtx-970-xtreme-gaming.html?start=5 , but with you dual GTX 970 setup. By the looks of things, dual D700 still will be much faster(Fury Nano).

 

[flat five]

That's odd it seems to be working now.

That is a consumer mobile graphics chip that is old. No offense it is a very nice iMac but that is not a fair comparison to a D700.

hey, you're the one that said:

"You do realize that the only machines running nVidia and OS X are hacks with questionable drivers and cMPs which bless their hearts where awesome machines but are hopelessly outdated to even be a fair comparison."

it's starting to sound like you're one of those people who never say anything wrong

I ran the LuxMark 3.1 bench mark and got this for a result for CPU + GPU. I'll run the test with each part on it's own shortly.

how about just using the computers to do something then tell the difference you're experiencing between all these various cards.. i'll bet a thousand dollars you won't be able to tell what gpu is inside what machine.

this benchmark battle thing is just silly.. sorry.

 

[Daisy81]

Your post is exact epitome of what Im experiencing with Mac Pro. I do not need ECC, and Dual GPU setup, I would rather have one big GPU in a headless computer. And yet, I'm not bashing Mac Pro for that.


You've checked the LuxBall benchmark, not Hotel one.

Here you have a benchmark of the same as your test made on nMP 2013 with D700 and 8 core CPU: http://www.tonymacx86.com/graphics/147035-post-os-x-luxmark-opencl-benchmarks-7.html#post1150080

And here is the same benchmark with another renderer, but with you dual GTX 970 setup. By the looks of things, dual D700 still will be much faster.

Hang on let me change to the hotel. This is the first time I have used this software.

 

[AidenShaw]

View attachment 608567

(just sayin)

Be careful with simply blurring PII - if it's a mathematical blur the reverse transform can restore the original.

 

[Daisy81]

hey, you're the one that said:

"You do realize that the only machines running nVidia and OS X are hacks with questionable drivers and cMPs which bless their hearts where awesome machines but are hopelessly outdated to even be a fair comparison."

it's starting to sound like you're one of those people who never say anything wrong




how about just using the computers to do something then tell the difference you're experiencing between all these various cards.. i'll bet a thousand dollars you won't be able to tell what gpu is inside what machine.

this benchmark battle thing is just silly.. sorry.

I know it is. But the only way to get through to them is to show them the numbers.

What are you talking about? I've been wrong. I ate crow in another topic because I didn't realize a iMac 27Inch fusion drive had a 7200RPM drive.

 

[Daisy81]

Your post is exact epitome of what Im experiencing with Mac Pro. I do not need ECC, and Dual GPU setup, I would rather have one big GPU in a headless computer. And yet, I'm not bashing Mac Pro for that.


You've checked the LuxBall benchmark, not Hotel one.

Here you have a benchmark of the same as your test made on nMP 2013 with D700 and 8 core CPU: http://www.tonymacx86.com/graphics/147035-post-os-x-luxmark-opencl-benchmarks-7.html#post1150080

And here is the same benchmark with another renderer http://www.hardwareluxx.com/index.p...d-gigabyte-gtx-970-xtreme-gaming.html?start=5 , but with you dual GTX 970 setup. By the looks of things, dual D700 still will be much faster(Fury Nano).

You do realize that my machine is a 6 core? We're comparing 6 core D700 to mine to get a more baseline comparison of the AMD D700 not my CPU is better then yours.

 

[koyoot]

http://www.luxmark.info/node/1511 Here is 3.1 with dual D700 - Fury Nano from upper benchmark, by the looks of things.

 

[flat five]

Be careful with simply blurring PII - if it's a mathematical blur the reverse transform can restore the original.

thanks.
i'm not too concerned with someone un-blurring the serial# but i'll remember this next time i share an image with a cc# etc on there.

 

[Daisy81]

Here is the result of the CPU + GPU Hotel benchmark.

 

[koyoot]

Without CPU. We need only GPUs.

 

[Daisy81]

Without CPU. We need only GPUs.

Interesting the GPU only test is actually faster.

 

[linuxcooldude]

Apple doesn't care about the Pro market. Apple perceives them as a pain in the butt. Apple has created their own monopoly where you can not get OS X anywhere else and as such they don't have to compete with hardware. This is why their machines are usually outdated and slow. However Windows has improved significantly in the last ten years.

I see Apple focusing more on the prosumer user that eventually will creep up to the pro users. Kind of ironic considering PC/Windows has the real monopoly here. But I suppose people will create a monopoly where none exists, if that suits them. Each operating system has its own Pros and Cons. While Windows has/will always improve still has its own quirks like Metro tablet interface / fragmented file system ect. But it is, what it is.

You keep fixating on the fact that I have two GTX 970 cards. You need to focus on price to performance ratio. Two GTX 970 cards cost $600. Two D700 cards for Apple cost roughly $1500. (Link) That is not a good return on investment.

Since you built your own system, your price/performance comparison is really apples/oranges on many fronts. First off, BYO system will always be cheaper, and you will always provide your own support. Self support is not an option for many as they want most of their time making money and not troubleshooting a computer when it breaks down. Second, you are comparing consumer/gaming parts to workstation parts which are much more expensive.

Return on investment is relative to how much money you make in relation to how much money you invest in your equipment. If you don't make much, you can't spend as much on your equipment to justify the cost. Which is fine, depending on what income bracket you work.

 

[koyoot]

Good result, however, still it should be higher. Luxmark benefits a lot on core clock. And you have OC'ed GPUs.

 

[Daisy81]

Good result, however, still it should be higher. Luxmark benefits a lot on core clock. And you have OC'ed GPUs.

Nope I lowered mine to 3.5GHz to be a fair comparison to the Mac Pro.

Give me one moment and I'll prove it.

 

[koyoot]

GPU core clock. Not the CPU. Im talking about your score without CPU. It should be higher considering they are OC'ed GPUs.