Is the new Mac Pro a failure?

[lowendlinux]

I'm also going to strategically dismiss it going to plan 9, to Pick system, to DOS, to OS/2, to solaris, to PRIMOS, to AMIGA OS, to automobile firmware, as all have equal weight and relevance to linux for creative professionals: none.

I guess you missed the MP demo where much the rage was the Mari demo Mari was developed for Linux and Linux only and was being ported to OS X.

When you get into the big cost per seat stuff you find quite a bit of Linux SW

https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/mari

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

ZombiePhysicist: Ever heard of Gimp? My Linux fanatic friends tell me Gimp really outcompetes Photoshop these days!
:Sarcasm:

I've actually heard about a few ad agencies using blender (in Linux) to make their CGI-based ads. But still, a few ad agencies doesn't make up for a large percentage of the whole market

Im sure in between bouts of playing many rounds of 'magic the gathering' lots of the same demographic fire up gimp on their linux boxes and amuse themselves with how they either are not actual creative professionals or they are living breathing walking statistical insignificants.
[doublepost=1452588726][/doublepost]

I guess you missed the MP demo where much the rage was the Mari demo Mari was developed for Linux and Linux only and was being ported to OS X.

When you get into the big cost per seat stuff you find quite a bit of Linux SW

https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/mari

I guess you missed the fact that they are statistical insignificants (e.g., with regard to adoption of mari or any other product on linux) with regard to actual creative professionals using linux (and back end render farms dont count...thats not for creative professionals but for the IT guys manning the closets).

 

[bogg]

Im sure in between bouts of playing many rounds of 'magic the gathering' lots of the same demographic fire up gimp on their linux boxes and amuse themselves with how they either are not actual creative professionals or they are living breathing walking statistical insignificants.

Yeah, I'm no creative professional (I'm a network engineering educator primarily teaching Cisco CCNA and CCNP), but every time I try out GIMP I'm about to throw my computer out of the window, I understand that no "real" creative professional deals in GIMP. I've never heard of ANY serious "creative professional" using Linux for something real...

 

[JoSch]

It really becomes easy when thinking that TB3 is a total new connector and for every cable, you now need an adapter. This is truly "pro" and "hassle free", right? RIGHT, APPLE?

I believe the owner of Thunderbolt is not Apple, it's Intel. So much for bias. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface))

 

[lowendlinux]

Im sure in between bouts of playing many rounds of 'magic the gathering' lots of the same demographic fire up gimp on their linux boxes and amuse themselves with how they either are not actual creative professionals or they are living breathing walking statistical insignificants.
[doublepost=1452588726][/doublepost]

I guess you missed the fact that they are statistical insignificants (e.g., with regard to adoption of mari or any other product on linux) with regard to actual creative professionals using linux (and back end render farms dont count...thats not for creative professionals but for the IT guys manning the closets).

I think you should tell the foundry that as well as Pixar.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/14/apple-let-developers-from-the-foundry-and-pixar-test-out-the-new/

I agree with you if your independent or freelance.

 

[bogg]

I think you should tell the foundry that as well as Pixar.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/14/apple-let-developers-from-the-foundry-and-pixar-test-out-the-new/

I agree with you if your independent or freelance.

What does that link have to do with Linux? It's about Pixar and Foundry getting to try out the nMP?

 

[lowendlinux]

What does that link have to do with Linux? It's about Pixar and Foundry getting to try out the nMP?

Only that it was developed for Linux and that piece of SW was one of the things that allowed Pixar to use the nMP.

There's also Modo and Maya if you don't like that one but their obviously different. The point being is yes the CS is not on Linux and yes it's harder to find creative SW for Linux but to say it's irrelevant and comparing to OS/2 is also not correct

 

[bogg]

Only that it was developed for Linux and that piece of SW was one of the things that allowed Pixar to use the nMP.

There's also Modo and Maya if you don't like that one but their obviously different. The point being is yes the CS is not on Linux and yes it's harder to find creative SW for Linux but to say it's irrelevant and comparing to OS/2 is also not correct

Mari might have been developed for Linux, but it is now available for Windows as well (the Windows version was available before the OS X version).. I wonder why?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I think you should tell the foundry that as well as Pixar.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/14/apple-let-developers-from-the-foundry-and-pixar-test-out-the-new/

I agree with you if your independent or freelance.

Mari is available on windows, and mac OS and linux:
https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/mari/system-requirements/

Linux will not hold majority, and likely close to no statistically (or monetary) significant marketshare as from creative professionals running it on linux...just like most every other product used by creative professionals.
[doublepost=1452589993][/doublepost]

Only that it was developed for Linux and that piece of SW was one of the things that allowed Pixar to use the nMP.

There's also Modo and Maya if you don't like that one but their obviously different. The point being is yes the CS is not on Linux and yes it's harder to find creative SW for Linux but to say it's irrelevant and comparing to OS/2 is also not correct

It's closer to OS/2 than it is to MacOS or Windows and statistically and monetarily insignificant for the creative professional market.

 

[lowendlinux]

Mari might have been developed for Linux, but it is now available for Windows as well (the Windows version was available before the OS X version).. I wonder why?

They're a company who wouldn't want the broadest market share.

Mari is available on windows, and mac OS and linux:
https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/mari/system-requirements/

Linux will not hold majority, and likely close to no statistically (or monetary) significant marketshare as from creative professionals running it on linux...just like most every other product used by creative professionals.
[doublepost=1452589993][/doublepost]

It's closer to OS/2 than it is to MacOS or Windows and statistically and monetarily insignificant for the creative professional market.

There you went and moved goal posts like you accuse F5 of I never said it was going to be the majority or it was going to overtake *pick an OS*.

Here is what you said:

"I'm also going to strategically dismiss it going to plan 9, to Pick system, to DOS, to OS/2, to solaris, to PRIMOS, to AMIGA OS, to automobile firmware, as all have equal weight and relevance to linux for creative professionals: none."

If it was insignificant it these companies wouldn't be making SW for Linux, they're not FOSS they need to show an ROI and software devs are not cheap. Linux is absolutely more relevant than any of the OS's you brought up but it's not relevant to people like most of us here. I probably wouldn't build a linux box to do those things but then I wouldn't pay for RHEL either all those companies are successful.

As I google more Houdini is also available on Linux..

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

They're a company who wouldn't want the broadest market share.

Apparently these guys:
http://winsupersite.com/windows-phone/exodus-windows-phone-ecosystem

And these guys:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/why-ad...g-deal-and-why-this-could-be-bad-for-mozilla/

There you went and moved goal posts like you accuse F5 of I never said it was going to be the majority or it was going to overtake *pick an OS*.

Here is what you said:

"I'm also going to strategically dismiss it going to plan 9, to Pick system, to DOS, to OS/2, to solaris, to PRIMOS, to AMIGA OS, to automobile firmware, as all have equal weight and relevance to linux for creative professionals: none."

If it was insignificant it these companies wouldn't be making SW for Linux, they're not FOSS they need to show an ROI and software devs are not cheap. Linux is absolutely more relevant than any of the OS's you brought up but it's not relevant to people like most of us here. I probably wouldn't build a linux box to do those things but then I wouldn't pay for RHEL either all those companies are successful.

As I google more Houdini is also available on Linux..

The fact that it's available for linux doesnt mean it represents a statistically significant revenue and/or numbers of creative professionals from linux. There are versions of iOS apps ported to windows mobile, yet, that usage is statistically insignificant. It, like your argument, is noise.

 

[linuxcooldude]

I'm also going to strategically dismiss it going to plan 9, to Pick system, to DOS, to OS/2, to solaris, to PRIMOS, to AMIGA OS, to automobile firmware, etc... as all have equal weight and relevance as linux to creative professionals: asymptotically approaching zero.

Funny you mentioned a lot of software which is dead or not actively being developed. A lot of major visual effect software is used on Linux which could use VR but Oculus Rift has stopped active development on ( Along with the Mac )

 

[lowendlinux]

The fact that it's available for linux doesnt mean it represents a statistically significant revenue and/or numbers of creative professionals from linux. There are versions of iOS apps ported to windows mobile, yet, that usage is statistically insignificant. It, like your argument, is noise.

It's statistically relevant enough to either build it initially for Linux or port it over these companies are not charities nor are they FOSS.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

They're a company who wouldn't want the broadest market share.



There you went and moved goal posts like you accuse F5 of I never said it was going to be the majority or it was going to overtake *pick an OS*.

Here is what you said:

"I'm also going to strategically dismiss it going to plan 9, to Pick system, to DOS, to OS/2, to solaris, to PRIMOS, to AMIGA OS, to automobile firmware, as all have equal weight and relevance to linux for creative professionals: none."

If it was insignificant it these companies wouldn't be making SW for Linux, they're not FOSS they need to show an ROI and software devs are not cheap. Linux is absolutely more relevant than any of the OS's you brought up but it's not relevant to people like most of us here. I probably wouldn't build a linux box to do those things but then I wouldn't pay for RHEL either all those companies are successful.

As I google more Houdini is also available on Linux..

It's statistically relevant enough to either build it initially for Linux or port it over these companies are not charities nor are they FOSS.

No, they were hopeful it would lead to something, but in fact lead to dead ends and software gets dropped. Why, because the number of users remains statistically insignificant in revenues and numbers of users. Word perfect and Adobe products were made for NeXTstep too. It amounted to nothing significant.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/why-ad...g-deal-and-why-this-could-be-bad-for-mozilla/
http://winsupersite.com/windows-phone/exodus-windows-phone-ecosystem

 

[linuxcooldude]

The fact that it's available for linux doesnt mean it represents a statistically significant revenue and/or numbers of creative professionals from linux. There are versions of iOS apps ported to windows mobile, yet, that usage is statistically insignificant. It, like your argument, is noise.

So Linux does not have enough market share to matter. But somehow Macs only having 8% of the desktop market is not an issue, only the lack of GPU support. Its funny how that works.

 

[lowendlinux]

No, they were hopeful it would lead to something, but in fact lead to dead ends and software gets dropped. Why, because the number of users remains statistically insignificant in revenues and numbers of users. Word perfect and Adobe products were made for NeXTstep too. It amounted to nothing significant.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/why-ad...g-deal-and-why-this-could-be-bad-for-mozilla/
http://winsupersite.com/windows-phone/exodus-windows-phone-ecosystem

No they build it, actively maintain it, and the companies make money this isn't complicated. Linux bounces between 1% and 3% using web stats but the important key is where those percentages are. When I used Macs they were in about the same percentage brackets yet they were the "computer for creatives"

 

[namyrb]

Everybody already knows what that the majority of creatives don't use linux (or macs - the majority would be windows)... but nobody is making that point and nobody can argue with you there because it's just so completely obvious. But the majority of high end vfx software is developed for linux. Many of these companies also develop their own proprietary software on linux. Dreamworks, Pixar, and Disney all animate on proprietary software (on linux) that isn't for sale, but is used to make lots and lots of money. That's what makes linux significant in relation to creative professionals - the fact that most people who go to the movies are watching creations that were made on linux.

Another thing - if you're a creative professional trying to paint on linux, you're not going to use gimp. Gimp is terrible. You're going to use krita.

 

[linuxcooldude]

Everybody already knows what that the majority of creatives don't use linux (or macs - the majority would be windows)... but nobody is making that point and nobody can argue with you there because it's just so completely obvious. But the majority of high end vfx software is developed for linux. Many of these companies also develop their own proprietary software on linux. Dreamworks, Pixar, and Disney all animate on proprietary software (on linux) that isn't for sale, but is used to make lots and lots of money. That's what makes linux significant in relation to creative professionals - the fact that most people who go to the movies are watching creations that were made on linux.

Another thing - if you're a creative professional trying to paint on linux, you're not going to use gimp. Gimp is terrible. You're going to use krita.

Great post. Yes, independent creative professionals are likely not to use Linux. But the major special effects houses, scientific engineering firms, animation studios ( Which use Linux ) would greatly benefit from VR technology. Even on Mac although it may not currently support it hardware wise. So we need development in those areas too.

 

[MacVidCards]

I just wish that the collection of Apple apoogists would give us 1 (one) day of honesty.

Nobody with a brain is buying the tripe anymore, why not stop posting gibberish trying to obfuscate the facts?

Macs as computers are slipping further and further into "insignificant" and "irrelevant" yet the Gibberati continue to expound upon the joys of a shiny, extruded case.

Those Rift specs aren't an accident. They require ACTUAL performance. Not paper tigers.

 

[linuxcooldude]

I just wish that the collection of Apple apoogists would give us 1 (one) day of honesty.

Like the nMP uses mobile graphic cards? Honesty at its finest. Something you've been posting on several occasions.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

So Linux does not have enough market share to matter. But somehow Macs only having 8% of the desktop market is not an issue, only the lack of GPU support. Its funny how that works.

Yep. And I agree, linux is funny on the desktop.

Linux has maybe 1.5% of the desktop, and yea it doesnt matter in general, and in particular because not only is mac os x probably have orders of magnitude more user base, it has disproportionately higher creative number of users. So, bluntly, linux is irrelevant in general, and particularly so among creatives.
[doublepost=1452595366][/doublepost]

No they build it, actively maintain it, and the companies make money this isn't complicated. Linux bounces between 1% and 3% using web stats but the important key is where those percentages are. When I used Macs they were in about the same percentage brackets yet they were the "computer for creatives"

Exactly like they active maintain apps for windows mobile. As irrelevant zombies.

 

[linuxcooldude]

Yep. And I agree, linux is funny on the desktop.

Linux has maybe 1.5% of the desktop, and yea it doesnt matter in general, and in particular because not only is mac os x probably have orders of magnitude more user base, it has disproportionately higher creative number of users. So, bluntly, linux is irrelevant in general, and particularly so among creatives.

But as namyrb has mentioned, Linux also has the high percentage of the high end creative professionals too.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Everybody already knows what that the majority of creatives don't use linux (or macs - the majority would be windows)... but nobody is making that point and nobody can argue with you there because it's just so completely obvious. But the majority of high end vfx software is developed for linux. Many of these companies also develop their own proprietary software on linux. Dreamworks, Pixar, and Disney all animate on proprietary software (on linux) that isn't for sale, but is used to make lots and lots of money. That's what makes linux significant in relation to creative professionals - the fact that most people who go to the movies are watching creations that were made on linux.

Another thing - if you're a creative professional trying to paint on linux, you're not going to use gimp. Gimp is terrible. You're going to use krita.

I think youre right regarding windows being the majority. But this was true even in 1997 when apple was circling the drain. But apple has always managed to have a disproportionally high number/percentage of creative users for every point of its marketshare. Thats just the way it is.

And with regard to custom software, this is laughable. It's an irrelevant niche even within the niche that are creative professionals.

That said, I think your overall point is very apt. Windows is ruling, and more so by the day. Apple not offering a real professional computer is only accelerating that. Regardless, they aint going to linux. Windows is the beneficiary.
[doublepost=1452595758][/doublepost]

But as namyrb has mentioned, Linux also has the high percentage of the high end creative professionals too.

That's like saying, NeXT had a high percentage of the back end custom web server market in 1997. And high end creative web designers were represented and target of that market. And.... irrelevant noise. Just like that mention.

 

[lowendlinux]

Yep. And I agree, linux is funny on the desktop.

Linux has maybe 1.5% of the desktop, and yea it doesnt matter in general, and in particular because not only is mac os x probably have orders of magnitude more user base, it has disproportionately higher creative number of users. So, bluntly, linux is irrelevant in general, and particularly so among creatives.
[doublepost=1452595366][/doublepost]

Exactly like they active maintain apps for windows mobile. As irrelevant zombies.

They don't actively maintain them on WP that's one of the big gripes on WP users; if they have the app it's old and out of date this is not the case with Linux.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

They don't actively maintain them on WP that's one of the big gripes on WP users; if they have the app it's old and out of date this is not the case with Linux.

Yea, early on the windows mobile apps were maintained for a while too. Not that there is a great see of creative commercial software for linux, but if it's being maintained, then that's great. And perhaps, those packages and other geekery things may be maintained on linux moving forward.

In the mean time, it's still a statistical irrelevancy compared to MacOS much less Windows, no more meaningful than NeXT's 'success' with custom programed web server back ends among the creative web development market.