Is the new Mac Pro a failure?

[tuxon86]

Which most are preconfigured.



Under warrantee....A user replaceable part...Yes. A non-user replaceable part...No



If you are not early, you are late. Genius Bars tend to be very busy.



So does Apple, I know as my Mac Pro is covered for on site repair.



A good IT department will repurpose or already have a replacement ready. They are not going to have you wait around for an upgrade with down time in productivity.

1- Funny, since I work in IT for a leading energy and engineering firm in the world and yet we replace workstation part after the waranty expire quite often. A workstation cost a lot and if the part and labor cost less and the machine is already setup for production it is less of a hastle to just replace one part.

2- The Apple stores are in the middle of downtown. Try finding a parking space near one...

3- As an extra. On site is standard with Dell and HP.

4- A good IT department know how to balance the extra cost of buying new vs upgrading and not waste money and time having to reinstall the whole applications suite just to upgrade one piece of hardware, software or task. Some of our workstations takes up to three days to reinstall every piece of software on them.

People here think that their own limited mom & pop media creation experience is the panacea of use case. It isn't as has been demonstrated by me and many other here. You can't compare your personnal experience with a big corporation. What is trivial in your world just doesn't applies in big business.

 

[MacVidCards]

People bang on about upgrades and guess what in 90% of the hundreds of places I've worked - Computers are NOT upgraded beyond some memory and perhaps a second drive. most never even filled or even knew there were 4 hard drive slots in the old mac pro - this is not just Mac thing. Windows Workstations are bought with whatever config and then not touched. A lot of companies won't even upgrade the OS for fear of borking their editing machine.

Your use case doesn't represent the entire world.

Some people must be updating GPUs or I wouldn't exist.

But as I have posted "hundreds" of times, there won't be any updated GPUs for 6,1. The bootrom for the machine contains the EFI and BIOS for all 6 GPUs it can come with. So for Apple to offer GPUs, they would also have to offer a firmware flash including 2 sets of EFI/BIOS for each and every card they might offer, along with the 6 already in there. A very clumsy way to change parts, pretty obvious they never intended too. Or you can keep waiting at the Apple Store for Godot to bring those GPU upgrades.

Whatever is in 7,1 will be using different TB and different SSD so very little reason to think it will have any chance to plug in to 6,1. Would be incredibly difficult for Apple to keep it backwards compatable, issue new firmware, etc. All of which would run 180 degrees from the obvious direction the entire product line has been going. ("3 years old? It's junk, buy a new one!")

 

[thermodynamic]

Yeah b/c computers with dust explode.

Actually, dust clogs vents and thus causing heat inside the case to build up. Heat slowly wrecks components. In smaller cases with higher ambient heat, cooling becomes even more critical. A quiet small case is a stupid combination, if you want the 'puter to last more than three years without mysterious lockups and freezes, fewer than three years if one is constantly taxing it with video editing, production, and other high resource-consuming projects.

Otherwise the spec sheets from Intel, AMD, nVidia, et al, would all say "We encourage dust buildup and using any means to build up heat, including smoking all the cigarettes to your heart's content and because we also included these newly resized and smaller fans, since we design our chips to run hot because we know how to get around the laws of physics and pass the savings on to you!"

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Interesting thread/poll here for a video pro working on a documentary on if he should upgrade his cMP, get a new windows machine, or wait for the new new Mac Pro:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-production-work.1949889/page-2#post-22470352

So far no one has recommended waiting for the new new Mac Pro, and instead the votes are split between going windows or upgrading a cMP.

Of course now that I posted it here, I suspect we'll see all the usual suspects add their voices.

 

[flat five]

Interesting thread/poll here for a video pro working on a documentary on if he should upgrade his cMP, get a new windows machine, or wait for the new new Mac Pro:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-production-work.1949889/page-2#post-22470352

So far no one has recommended waiting for the new new Mac Pro, and instead the votes are split between going windows or upgrading a cMP.

Of course now that I posted it here, I suspect we'll see all the usual suspects add their voices.

poor guy.. you all just encouraged him to spend $700 on a GPU and he's not going to see any improvement.. he'll come back and say 'uh, i'm still crashing and exports are still too slow'.. then you all will get him to spend $1000 on cpu upgrade.. then you'll pipe in 'need more ram'... and "faster drives!!"

and by the end of it all, could of saved a lot of headache/time.. bought a 6,1 quad.. and of been better off for near equal dollars spent.

---
not to mention his computer is about a year away from eol via apple.

 

[linuxcooldude]

poor guy.. you all just encouraged him to spend $700 on a GPU and he's not going to see any improvement.. he'll come back and say 'uh, i'm still crashing and exports are still too slow'.. then you all will get him to spend $1000 on cpu upgrade.. then you'll pipe in 'need more ram'... and "faster drives!!"

and by the end of it all, could of saved a lot of headache/time.. bought a 6,1 quad.. and of been better off for near equal dollars spent.

---
not to mention his computer is about a year away from eol via apple.

Yeah, I would not spend $2000-2500 on upgrading a 6 year old Mac Pro. For one thing its crashing, I would find out the cause before spending a lot of money if its a motherboard problem. Going from Premiere Pro CC to FCP X would save him money over the long run he could buy a new 6,1 Mac Pro that is better at 4K and probably renders faster than Premiere with a warranty.

 

[Macsonic]

4- A good IT department know how to balance the extra cost of buying new vs upgrading and not waste money and time having to reinstall the whole applications suite just to upgrade one piece of hardware, software or task. Some of our workstations takes up to three days to reinstall every piece of software on them.

People here think that their own limited mom & pop media creation experience is the panacea of use case. It isn't as has been demonstrated by me and many other here. You can't compare your personnal experience with a big corporation. What is trivial in your world just doesn't applies in big business.

+1 Our IT dept here puts much weight on monthly, yearly expenses on computer equipments. They usually find it more cost efficient upgrading parts than buying a brand new computer specially if the parts are offered on sale as used parts from reliable sellers. Corporations have a different perspective on business expenses since they have a huge volume of equipments. On the new Mac Pro, once the Applecare expires, the cost of parts replacements and if they are easily sourced out like the GPUs should be taken into consideration.

 

[DearthnVader]

Your use case doesn't represent the entire world.

Some people must be updating GPUs or I wouldn't exist.

But as I have posted "hundreds" of times, there won't be any updated GPUs for 6,1. The bootrom for the machine contains the EFI and BIOS for all 6 GPUs it can come with. So for Apple to offer GPUs, they would also have to offer a firmware flash including 2 sets of EFI/BIOS for each and every card they might offer, along with the 6 already in there. A very clumsy way to change parts, pretty obvious they never intended too. Or you can keep waiting at the Apple Store for Godot to bring those GPU upgrades.

Whatever is in 7,1 will be using different TB and different SSD so very little reason to think it will have any chance to plug in to 6,1. Would be incredibly difficult for Apple to keep it backwards compatable, issue new firmware, etc. All of which would run 180 degrees from the obvious direction the entire product line has been going. ("3 years old? It's junk, buy a new one!")

Just because Apple didn't include an Option Rom on the AMD Dxxx, doesn't mean that a replacement card couldn't include an Option Rom. Tho it's a moot point, as I agree there will never be a Graphics Card upgrade for the MacPro6,1, Apple's not going to make one and no 3rd party is going to go to the trouble for such a low install base.

It's not like the iMac with the Mezzanine port, those were some of the best selling computers of all time. Micro conversions, the company that made the Voodoo 2 card for the iMac closed its doors just months after the Voodoo 2 for the Mezzanine port was announced.

To make it even less likely of a Graphics card upgrade, the Graphics cards are not identical, so that means two different PCB's need to be made. Then you have the connector cable, that includes Crossfire, making it likely that the only upgrade could be an AMD card.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

poor guy.. you all just encouraged him to spend $700 on a GPU and he's not going to see any improvement.. he'll come back and say 'uh, i'm still crashing and exports are still too slow'.. then you all will get him to spend $1000 on cpu upgrade.. then you'll pipe in 'need more ram'... and "faster drives!!"

and by the end of it all, could of saved a lot of headache/time.. bought a 6,1 quad.. and of been better off for near equal dollars spent.

---
not to mention his computer is about a year away from eol via apple.

Right, nothing like spending money on an outdated computer that is only 1 year out from EOL from the 2012 cMP, but less upgradeable and worse performing. But at you least you did him the favor of not giving your recommendation and running back hear to let everyone know that.

 

[flat five]

Right, nothing like spending money on an outdated computer that is only 1 year out from EOL from the 2012 cMP, but less upgradeable and worse performing. But at you least you did him the favor of not giving your recommendation and running back hear to let everyone know that.

sigh.
that gpu isn't going to help him

this thread and similar aren't the same as those kinds of threads.. that's dudes real world and real money.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

sigh.
that gpu isn't going to help him

this thread and similar aren't the same as those kinds of threads.. that's dudes real world and real money.

As always youre being super helpful bringing that info here to this thread.

 

[flat five]

As always youre being super helpful bringing that info here to this thread.

what?
#1704

?

 

[Bytehoven]

sigh. that gpu isn't going to help him...

He said he wants to be able to edit 4K and is working with Premiere/Adobe products.

While he could have gotten by with the GTX 980 with his current 3 monitor set up, that 980 Ti will give him the option to add a 4th monitor, while supporting higher resolutions on ALL 4 monitors.

A faster CPU(s) will help him.

Increasing to 48-64GB of RAM will help him.

Faster data I/O storage will help him.

Could he spend the same or less $$$ outfitting a new nMP with the equal capability on all fronts? Let's take a look at the math...

... his current rig, if he sold it might bring $300-500 if he's lucky. But investing $650 + $700 he'll have the fastest cMP processor package AND a great GPU. What would be the cost of a 6,1 nMP which can compete with his upgraded cMP with 2x 6 core 3.46HGz + 980 Ti? $6K? $5K? Sure he can pick up a used Quad in the $2000 range, but that's not performance competitive.

Let's talk fast storage... Pound for pound PCIe SAS on the cMP is a cheaper all around solution compared to nMP TB2.

Frustrating conclusion for all of us who love working on a Mac Pro... His 2010 cMP 5,1 remains a solid platform worth building upon, and cheaper to upgrade for increased performance.

 

[pier]

I'm a bit late to the party, but after having read almost 40 pages of this monster thread I'd like to add my 2 cents as well.

First things first, I voted for a failure. Not because I think the nMP is an absolute failure in itself, but because there's no way around the fact the nMP is closer to a Mac Mini than a Mac Pro. Does that mean the nMP is a useless product? Not at all, like any other product it has it's place and some people will love it. I think it's a great piece of engineering, although quite ugly if you ask me.

The problem as I see it, is Apple moving away from the pro industry and becoming mostly a consumer/prosumer oriented company. It's undeniable Apple hasn't been very focused in the pro segment, and we all have seen this coming. There have been signs of this for years. From the 'dumbification' of Final Cut, to the death of Aperture and the stagnation of Logic. We were their number one customer not so long ago, but times have changed. People are moving to Cubase, Premiere, Lightroom, After Effects, Avid, Live, etc.

And all this is not only about the death of the Mac Pro and Apple's pro software.

Look at the current line of MBP. Here is an interesting article at Motherboard: The 2012 Non-Retina MacBook Pro Is Still the Best Laptop Apple Sells. There's only 1 very expensive model with a dedicated GPU, almost as expensive as the nMP. The rest are simply fat Macbook Airs. 4 years later my 2011 MBP is in the same performance range as most current era retina MBPs. I know because I have both. So instead of getting 4 years of performance improvements in both CPU and GPU, we have thinner non upgradeable machines with lots of battery time. Why? Because performance is not a priority for Apple. Their focus now is on making anorexic lightweight products that generally meet most users performance needs, and that have to be renewed every 3 years.

( On a side note: It could even be argued that Apple never really cared about top performance. After all OSX has been consistently shipping with obsolete OpenGL versions, and Windows has had it's own "Metal" called Direct3D for 20 freaking years. )

An you know what? It's fine.

It's like a company that started making trucks and cars moving into the luxury car range. Is it wrong per se? Not at all, it's their business after all. If it works with the market so be it. The problem is of course if you want to keep buying their trucks in which case you have very few options:

1) You buy used or keep their last aging truck and pray the investment will last long enough
2) You buy one of their luxury cars with a relatively powerful engine and buy extra small trailers and attach them via thunderbolt
3) You get into the truckintosh thing, suffering every time you want to upgrade to a new OSX version (without ever having a 100% OSX experience)

All those options are compromises. From a business and practical point of view the most sensible option is simply to stop dreaming and move to a different truck company.

In my experience Windows 10 is as reliable as OSX. It is damn ugly and less user friendly, but it does every job you throw at it, and as a platform it's more flexible. On a hardware level a Windows workstation is a better investment than the nMP or an iMac. Not only because your money will last you longer, but also because you will be able to work with the latest and most powerful tech. Something that today is not possible with Apple. If you want to be on OSX you have to accept you are being left behind hardware wise.

There are rumours of a new Mac Pro in 2016 which will probably settle this argument once and for all, at least for me. So if/when the next Mac Pro is released we will see if Apple is saying a) "We don't make trucks anymore, if you want one go to the competition" or b) "We want to regain the truck market segment". I hope they release a new cMP, but I sincerely doubt it. After all they made a huge investment in the nMP.

Personally for the last 5 years or so Apple has let me down consistently. They just keep making decisions that don't make any sense to me, and I don't see why this should be any different now. 2016 will the year that either Apple wins me back or I completely move to Windows again.

 

[MacVidCards]

I'm a bit late to the party, but after having read almost 40 pages of this monster thread I'd like to add my 2 cents as well.

First things first, I voted for a failure. Not because I think the nMP is an absolute failure in itself, but because there's no way around the fact the nMP is closer to a Mac Mini than a Mac Pro. Does that mean the nMP is a useless product? Not at all, like any other product it has it's place and some people will love it. I think it's a great piece of engineering, although quite ugly if you ask me.

The problem as I see it, is Apple moving away from the pro industry and becoming mostly a consumer/prosumer oriented company. It's undeniable Apple hasn't been very focused in the pro segment, and we all have seen this coming. There have been signs of this for years. From the 'dumbification' of Final Cut, to the death of Aperture and the stagnation of Logic. We were their number one customer not so long ago, but times have changed. People are moving to Cubase, Premiere, Lightroom, After Effects, Avid, Live, etc.

And all this is not only about the death of the Mac Pro and Apple's pro software.

Look at the current line of MBP. Here is an interesting article at Motherboard: The 2012 Non-Retina MacBook Pro Is Still the Best Laptop Apple Sells. There's only 1 very expensive model with a dedicated GPU, almost as expensive as the nMP. The rest are simply fat Macbook Airs. 4 years later my 2011 MBP is in the same performance range as most current era retina MBPs. I know because I have both. So instead of getting 4 years of performance improvements in both CPU and GPU, we have thinner non upgradeable machines with lots of battery time. Why? Because performance is not a priority for Apple. Their focus now is on making anorexic lightweight products that generally meet most users performance needs, and that have to be renewed every 3 years.

( On a side note: It could even be argued that Apple never really cared about top performance. After all OSX has been consistently shipping with obsolete OpenGL versions, and Windows has had it's own "Metal" called Direct3D for 20 freaking years. )

An you know what? It's fine.

It's like a company that started making trucks and cars moving into the luxury car range. Is it wrong per se? Not at all, it's their business after all. If it works with the market so be it. The problem is of course if you want to keep buying their trucks in which case you have very few options:

1) You buy used or keep their last aging truck and pray the investment will last long enough
2) You buy one of their luxury cars with a relatively powerful engine and buy extra small trailers and attach them via thunderbolt
3) You get into the truckintosh thing, suffering every time you want to upgrade to a new OSX version (without ever having a 100% OSX experience)

All those options are compromises. From a business and practical point of view the most sensible option is simply to stop dreaming and move to a different truck company.

In my experience Windows 10 is as reliable as OSX. It is damn ugly and less user friendly, but it does every job you throw at it, and as a platform it's more flexible. On a hardware level a Windows workstation is a better investment than the nMP or an iMac. Not only because your money will last you longer, but also because you will be able to work with the latest and most powerful tech. Something that today is not possible with Apple. If you want to be on OSX you have to accept you are being left behind hardware wise.

There are rumours of a new Mac Pro in 2016 which will probably settle this argument once and for all, at least for me. So if/when the next Mac Pro is released we will see if Apple is saying a) "We don't make trucks anymore, if you want one go to the competition" or b) "We want to regain the truck market segment". I hope they release a new cMP, but I sincerely doubt it. After all they made a huge investment in the nMP.

Personally for the last 5 years or so Apple has let me down consistently. They just keep making decisions that don't make any sense to me, and I don't see why this should be any different now. 2016 will the year that either Apple wins me back or I completely move to Windows again.

Thank you for a voice of reason.

 

[edanuff]

There are rumours of a new Mac Pro in 2016 which will probably settle this argument once and for all, at least for me. So if/when the next Mac Pro is released we will see if Apple is saying a) "We don't make trucks anymore, if you want one go to the competition" or b) "We want to regain the truck market segment". I hope they release a new cMP, but I sincerely doubt it. After all they made a huge investment in the nMP.

Personally for the last 5 years or so Apple has let me down consistently. They just keep making decisions that don't make any sense to me, and I don't see why this should be any different now. 2016 will the year that either Apple wins me back or I completely move to Windows again.

Pretty sure they don't make trucks anymore. The nMP was an experiment to see if the customer base would take to Luxury SUVs. If Apple's data looks like this thread, then they'll throw in the towel. We're really not likely to see a big reveal at WWDC with a tower. OTOH, it's possible we see Apple so excited about Thunderbolt 3 that they even promote Thunderbolt e-GFX, which would take the wind out of the sails of a lot of the people who don't like the nMP because of GPU selection.

 

[Daisy81]

Pretty sure they don't make trucks anymore. The nMP was an experiment to see if the customer base would take to Luxury SUVs. If Apple's data looks like this thread, then they'll throw in the towel. We're really not likely to see a big reveal at WWDC with a tower. OTOH, it's possible we see Apple so excited about Thunderbolt 3 that they even promote Thunderbolt e-GFX, which would take the wind out of the sails of a lot of the people who don't like the nMP because of GPU selection.

Of course, because needing a expensive device that houses the PCIe graphics card and a expensive cable is cost effective to simply having a tower with a PCIe slot. I don't understand the drive to make everything external in what is supposed to be a professional device.

Why are you so thrilled at the possibility of them solving a rudimentary problem that they created with a super expensive solution that fixes itself if they simply revert back to the previous design?

 

[pier]

Of course, because needing a expensive device that houses the PCIe graphics card and a expensive cable is cost effective to simply having a tower with a PCIe slot. I don't understand the drive to make everything external in what is supposed to be a professional device.

Why are you so thrilled at the possibility of them solving a rudimentary problem that they created with a super expensive solution that fixes itself if they simply revert back to the previous design?

Indeed, it would be a convoluted solution to a problem that Apple created in the first place.

OTOH it would also allow OSX users some kind of performance upgrade, something not possible with the current line of products. It's either a new computer or the highway.

 

[namyrb]

If you thought my overall point was a half line parenthetical about windows then you misunderstood my point. You're arguing about linux's insignificance to creative professionals because of its market share. I'm arguing its significance because of the impact its creative users have had on world culture (ie, Hollywood blockbuster feature films and television). So although you're right about its relative insignificance to the vast majority who use computers in creative fields, you're wrong to call it irrelevant due to its extreme impact in pushing the mediums forward technologically as well as being the preferred vfx and animation platform for things that make billions and billions of dollars.

And its custom software isn't laughable, because as I listed, there's proprietary software initially developed on linux that has since expanded and is now sold on all 3 major platforms to anyone who wants to buy them. So although some software may fall under the "irrelevant niche" category at this point in time, you never know if they might one day be easily accessible to the public.

I think youre right regarding windows being the majority. But this was true even in 1997 when apple was circling the drain. But apple has always managed to have a disproportionally high number/percentage of creative users for every point of its marketshare. Thats just the way it is.

And with regard to custom software, this is laughable. It's an irrelevant niche even within the niche that are creative professionals.

That said, I think your overall point is very apt. Windows is ruling, and more so by the day. Apple not offering a real professional computer is only accelerating that. Regardless, they aint going to linux. Windows is the beneficiary.
[doublepost=1452595758][/doublepost]

That's like saying, NeXT had a high percentage of the back end custom web server market in 1997. And high end creative web designers were represented and target of that market. And.... irrelevant noise. Just like that mention.

 

[tralfaz]

Personally for the last 5 years or so Apple has let me down consistently. They just keep making decisions that don't make any sense to me, and I don't see why this should be any different now. 2016 will the year that either Apple wins me back or I completely move to Windows again.

You have echoed my feeling almost to the letter. Apple's computer offerings have seemed to become more and more unpalatable since I bought my 2011 MBP sporting a high res matte display. Remember when Apple made options for people that thought different from Apple itself. I now have issues with every Mac offering today. And this from someone with multiple Macs, iPads, and iPhones. Hell I still have a working NeXT cube in a closet. And still run a G4 cube as a server box. I'm not joking.

The trend towards zero serviceability, for the pursuit of the ultimate goal of achieving negative thickness, is infuriating. I have replaced failed parts in my MacPro and in my MBP multiple times. Not having to cart the machine into an Apple store, to be sent off for weeks of repairs, is a huge win to me. And its something I expect in top level equipment. Contemplating moving to a Win/Linux box for my main dev box depresses me. My MacPro 3,1 has been my one 'ring to rule all dev for OS X, Windows, Unix/Linux. Going back to multiple boxes to do that makes me sad.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

If you thought my overall point was a half line parenthetical about windows then you misunderstood my point. You're arguing about linux's insignificance to creative professionals because of its market share. I'm arguing its significance because of the impact its creative users have had on world culture (ie, Hollywood blockbuster feature films and television). So although you're right about its relative insignificance to the vast majority who use computers in creative fields, you're wrong to call it irrelevant due to its extreme impact in pushing the mediums forward technologically as well as being the preferred vfx and animation platform for things that make billions and billions of dollars.

And its custom software isn't laughable, because as I listed, there's proprietary software initially developed on linux that has since expanded and is now sold on all 3 major platforms to anyone who wants to buy them. So although some software may fall under the "irrelevant niche" category at this point in time, you never know if they might one day be easily accessible to the public.

Again, this is the NeXT computer argument. WWW.app was developed on a cube. The first mission critical web back ends were developed with next software. It's irrelevant. I love it personally, but it's irrelevant.

Linux makes great closetware backend stuff. But the rest is irrelevant. Doesnt matter what you prototype your stuff in. On a NeXT, on linux? The reality is, it's irrelevant and traditional creatives are not there.

Do I believe some bleeding edge techies make stuff for creatives there that may matter...yes, when they bring it to windows or the mac.

We can agree to disagree.

 

[MacVidCards]

Driving out to Palm Springs I had an epiphany of my own.

Picture a flipped universe where Apple was a cutting edge computer company who made phones as a sideline. Since they were a computer company they allowed the phones to lag a bit in the design department. Instead of an A9 they let them go a few years on the crusty A7 while Samsung moved on with latest Snspdragon 1000.

And maybe they wouldn't bother keeping the screen or graphics capabilities up to snuff, just keep the 2011 tech that worked for everyone else a few years back.

This phone would not sell well, but would have a shiny, well polished aluminum case extruded by sacred elves, etc.

Imagine how silly the apologists telling everyone that "real Pros use the tools at hand" and "is there anything keeping you from making a call on the Apple phone?" And of course the ever-popular "only tech snobs endlessly chasing artificial benchmarks would even want a faster phone like that."

Pretty funny when you think about it.

 

[gpzjock]

I'm a bit late to the party, but after having read almost 40 pages of this monster thread I'd like to add my 2 cents as well.

First things first, I voted for a failure. Not because I think the nMP is an absolute failure in itself, but because there's no way around the fact the nMP is closer to a Mac Mini than a Mac Pro. Does that mean the nMP is a useless product? Not at all, like any other product it has it's place and some people will love it. I think it's a great piece of engineering, although quite ugly if you ask me.

The problem as I see it, is Apple moving away from the pro industry and becoming mostly a consumer/prosumer oriented company. It's undeniable Apple hasn't been very focused in the pro segment, and we all have seen this coming. There have been signs of this for years. From the 'dumbification' of Final Cut, to the death of Aperture and the stagnation of Logic. We were their number one customer not so long ago, but times have changed. People are moving to Cubase, Premiere, Lightroom, After Effects, Avid, Live, etc.

And all this is not only about the death of the Mac Pro and Apple's pro software.

Look at the current line of MBP. Here is an interesting article at Motherboard: The 2012 Non-Retina MacBook Pro Is Still the Best Laptop Apple Sells. There's only 1 very expensive model with a dedicated GPU, almost as expensive as the nMP. The rest are simply fat Macbook Airs. 4 years later my 2011 MBP is in the same performance range as most current era retina MBPs. I know because I have both. So instead of getting 4 years of performance improvements in both CPU and GPU, we have thinner non upgradeable machines with lots of battery time. Why? Because performance is not a priority for Apple. Their focus now is on making anorexic lightweight products that generally meet most users performance needs, and that have to be renewed every 3 years.

( On a side note: It could even be argued that Apple never really cared about top performance. After all OSX has been consistently shipping with obsolete OpenGL versions, and Windows has had it's own "Metal" called Direct3D for 20 freaking years. )

An you know what? It's fine.

It's like a company that started making trucks and cars moving into the luxury car range. Is it wrong per se? Not at all, it's their business after all. If it works with the market so be it. The problem is of course if you want to keep buying their trucks in which case you have very few options:

1) You buy used or keep their last aging truck and pray the investment will last long enough
2) You buy one of their luxury cars with a relatively powerful engine and buy extra small trailers and attach them via thunderbolt
3) You get into the truckintosh thing, suffering every time you want to upgrade to a new OSX version (without ever having a 100% OSX experience)

All those options are compromises. From a business and practical point of view the most sensible option is simply to stop dreaming and move to a different truck company.

In my experience Windows 10 is as reliable as OSX. It is damn ugly and less user friendly, but it does every job you throw at it, and as a platform it's more flexible. On a hardware level a Windows workstation is a better investment than the nMP or an iMac. Not only because your money will last you longer, but also because you will be able to work with the latest and most powerful tech. Something that today is not possible with Apple. If you want to be on OSX you have to accept you are being left behind hardware wise.

There are rumours of a new Mac Pro in 2016 which will probably settle this argument once and for all, at least for me. So if/when the next Mac Pro is released we will see if Apple is saying a) "We don't make trucks anymore, if you want one go to the competition" or b) "We want to regain the truck market segment". I hope they release a new cMP, but I sincerely doubt it. After all they made a huge investment in the nMP.

Personally for the last 5 years or so Apple has let me down consistently. They just keep making decisions that don't make any sense to me, and I don't see why this should be any different now. 2016 will the year that either Apple wins me back or I completely move to Windows again.

Dammit, where were you 60 pages ago? We could have put this to bed before Christmas!

 

[flat five]

The rest are simply fat Macbook Airs. 4 years later my 2011 MBP is in the same performance range as most current era retina MBPs. I know because I have both. So instead of getting 4 years of performance improvements in both CPU and GPU, we have thinner non upgradeable machines with lots of battery time. Why? Because performance is not a priority for Apple.

what if your newer laptop was one-hundred-thousand times faster than your 2011 model..
and you open it up and start going about your normal routine on it.
do you notice anything different? what are the differences.. what are the similarities?

 

[AidenShaw]

what if your newer laptop was one-hundred-thousand times faster than your 2011 model..
and you open it up and start going about your normal routine on it.
do you notice anything different? what are the differences.. what are the similarities?

what is the point?