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MP 7,1 Is the new Mac Pro too niche?
- Thread starter maflynn
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Let us know when the Mini, iMac, or iMac pro can handle sustained loads.
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When you try to run long running, CPU intensive things, you’ll see how useful that cooking is. My mini shut itself down. My coworker’s iMac Pro lasted less than the mini.
Only way around it was to batch the processing into smaller chunks and introduce longer cooling periods and force the fans to go high from the get go.
I can say all Mac computers have a poor cooling system. Mac Pro 2019 may have a better cooling system but not other Mac computers for sure.
It’s why I can’t fathom an AIO or the mini for serious work .. or CPU bound work. Heck.. try with X-Plane
If people need the latest MacOS starting this fall, they will need to replace their cMP.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.... I don’t think those complaining actually live in the real world...
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Ah I see so ANYONE who earns money from something is a professional in that something, well that’s one flawed argument.. and no You Tubers are not professional videographers because they make videos on their favourite subject, and the earn money from ad campaigns because they have enough followers...
Buying 100 grand plus camera to produce the exact same quality work as someone with a 400 dollar camera is stupid willy waving, not being a professional.
And you wrote an opinion, I wrote what Apple themselves and the chief of the new Pro team said as posted in the story in this website, I didn’t post ‘opinion’ like you, sorry, I posted what Apple will be trying to make sure happens.
My comments are also fact, because as I said I can watch a video made in a 400 dollar camera and it looks just as good as one made on a 100 grand camera.. also I have no problem with people on You Tube, I’ve watched one Apple fan moan and scream about the new Pro because they basically can’t afford it..
And then watched a video about another tech You Tuber who lives in the real world and loves it and will be buying one and stares several tunes they absolutely do not need the Mac Pro or even there iMac Pro.. they make money from You Tube like many others and they do it without 100 grand cameras....
I think your the one with the narrowed view of the world, your argument is literally based around if someone does something that earns them money then automatically they are a ‘pro’ at that something, and therefore can justify spending 200 grand on cameras and computers and robots etc, when others in the exact same field mainly use equipment costing maybe 4 grand and they produce the same results. That’s. it being professional that’s being stupid and showing off... I actually do know a real professional who owns his own production company, they are small but work on TV and films and he has a pro Canon camera and it didn’t cost a 100 grand! He also uses a MacBook Pro....
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I’d say this isn’t a valid comparison. It is very likely that there’s a custom workflow that the software allows or that replacing it will cost more than having it in the first place.
I guess your billing software isn’t the core of your business but is critical for revenue protection and reporting requirements. When that software becomes unsupported and breaks, there will be someone batting an eyelid. When the cost of maintaining that thing outweighs everything else, people will start asking questions. It happens in all organisations, even those with larger legacy systems than yours.
Even after adjusting for inflation, the 2019 Mac Pro is nearly TWICE as expensive as the 2006 model (mid-tier). The price for the top-of-the-line 2019 Pro will most likely blow the gaskets off the top-of-the-line 2006 model.
Saying “it’s always been an expensive computer” is completely disingenuous. There are levels to “expensive”. It is also a relative term, but the vast majority of tech enthusiasts have been priced out of the Mac Pro market.
The Mac Pro is now a niche product mostly aimed at corporations, large businesses involved in video production and a small number of people who have more money than common sense. It is no longer a mass market consumer product.
I’m not necessarily saying this is a bad thing. It just is what it is.
Wouldn't it have been nice if Apple as a "one more thing" had released alongside the new MP something in a mini tower size (like 2 front fans worth rather than 3 - or even in the exact same case for that matter) that was built around Intel's Core processors (the i9 rather than Xeon) that came with half the RAM slots, half the PCI Express slots (with one of them being MPX), a pair of empty NVMe slots, and as a baseline, integrated graphics… at $2,500.
This would enable Apple to upset their upgrades as they wished and it would also give "something for everyone".
This would enable Apple to upset their upgrades as they wished and it would also give "something for everyone".
No question they could take advantage of the Mac Pro and that's my point. That classification of customers can, but the large majority of apple customers will not and that's my thought. Times change, to be sure but Apple used to provide a desktop computer that was upgradeable to masses. Now our only option is the iMac and Mini. Don't get me wrong, the iMac is a great computer, I've owned a number of them, but some people want a headless computer, and not an AIO. For many years, that was the Mac Pro.
I'm not down on the new Mac Pro, or knocking it, Its a fantastic computer, but it was designed to be so high end, that imo many of apple's traditional customers will not get it.
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So for non-personal injury work, attorneys generally earn income by billing hours. The software that allows you to keep and track billable time amongst the sometimes hundreds (or even thousands) of lawyers and support staff over tens of thousands of cases and also organizes those cases and the contacts information of thousands of clients and judges...etc. is what I am referring to.
If you are anything more than a relatively small shop, it is very hard to make money and bill clients without this software. It’s essential, which is why Lexis Nexis and the other vendors charge so much for it. So, we have millions of dollars in revenue but we need to spend what, like $20K, a year to earn that revenue....easy decision.
Yes. It’s too niche.
As I’ve said elsewhere, I’ve gone from PowerMac G4 to PowerMac G5 to Mac Pro (2010). I skipped the 2013 for the reasons many did and have hung on for this model for years.
And then they price me (us) out of it. It does feel like a slap in the face.
It’s not unreasonable “complaining” to have wanted a Mac Pro / headless expandable Mac desktop that started at a similar price as it has in the past (accounting for inflation). This new MP is basically triple the prices I paid, the way I see it. Will it last three times as long? I doubt it.
The reasons people like me never chose a Mac Mini or iMac as their main desktop computer still remain. At each stage it came to buy a new desktop I considered them. But there were always compromises I didn’t want to make. And as the years passed, I always felt correct and justified in my decision, for numerous reasons.
The current Mac Mini and iMac/iMac Pros are decent enough but they don’t solve all of the issues I always had with them. And yet I suppose I am going to have to decide which of them I will buy as my next desktop soon.
It’s just all very disappointing, to me and I guess others like me.
As I’ve said elsewhere, I’ve gone from PowerMac G4 to PowerMac G5 to Mac Pro (2010). I skipped the 2013 for the reasons many did and have hung on for this model for years.
And then they price me (us) out of it. It does feel like a slap in the face.
It’s not unreasonable “complaining” to have wanted a Mac Pro / headless expandable Mac desktop that started at a similar price as it has in the past (accounting for inflation). This new MP is basically triple the prices I paid, the way I see it. Will it last three times as long? I doubt it.
The reasons people like me never chose a Mac Mini or iMac as their main desktop computer still remain. At each stage it came to buy a new desktop I considered them. But there were always compromises I didn’t want to make. And as the years passed, I always felt correct and justified in my decision, for numerous reasons.
The current Mac Mini and iMac/iMac Pros are decent enough but they don’t solve all of the issues I always had with them. And yet I suppose I am going to have to decide which of them I will buy as my next desktop soon.
It’s just all very disappointing, to me and I guess others like me.
I would say the older Mac Pro’s were built for the hobbyists and Pro’s were an after thought, especially with the Trash Can!
So now they’ve done the complete opposite, hobbyists are an afterthought!
However whilst your statement is true, you need to remember back when the previous Mac Pro’s were launched, the ‘standard’ Macs didn’t have anywhere near the power they did today and the iMac Pro never existed! I mean that really is the machine for prosumers now so far as Apple is concerned.
As said I guess, Apple never have and never will make a cheaper headless upgradable Mac.
That the old cheese grater has gained such a cult massive following is testament to that.
Ok, so i just had enough with you, although i don't comment here more then few times a year you used a very offensive language in your first post(" Apple "developer community" and the Apple pundits and gadflies in general is they’re a bunch of whiny, spoiled and entitled brats and it’s kind of nice to watch them cry about this machine not being for them"). From the language you use to the absolute bul***t claims you are clearly NOT a lawyer(i worked with several big law firms and this will never ever be the language of a lawyer). First of all there isn't ever a law firm in US with 'staff over tens of thousands of cases". The total number of US courts cases in the year 2017 is about 40k, on federal level: https://www.uscourts.gov/caseload-statistics-2017-charts-federal-judicial-caseload-statistics-2017 And yes, this is the official statistic. You are probably one clerk or other type of low crap paid job that brags bulsh***ts around here.
Regarding the original post, Apple put this a bit higher because what they did with the original MacPro. Why? Because when you buy the stock and then upgrade yourself you will use it for 5-7 years without ever needing to go through Apple. So let's take the current machine: you buy the stock model and then add CPU, GPU, RAM etc yourself and never go back to Apple for 5-7 years or pay them for upgrades. Ok, but you pay a bigger upfront money to Apple so they can still have the thing produced. This is all about with this price, to improve a bit the margins on Apple revenue because let's faced it, this machines have a very long replacement cycle. Big companies will buy in troves, because if you check is at the HP Z8 price level. The HP Z8 comes with 8GB, 4 core XEON and FirePro w2100 for 4,3k, so actually Apple is offering a competitive machine. The only part i don't get is if the Apple is offering same 24/7 support HP is, because that is a big part of their price.
I think it is too niche. They are narrowing the definition of the word "Pro" to only mean video editors, 3D modelers and VFX people. Web developers and Graphics Designers are too "low end" for this machine. As a professional graphic designer who owns his own company with his wife, there is no way I'm spending $6,000 for a new machine. My last two pros cost under $3,000. And while the base model of the new MacPro has the potential to be a powerful machine, the base config falls short in the storage department. I'd probably do okay with the 580 Pro card, but at this price you really should have the Vega.
In order to communicate properly, you have to use common definitions of words. For some reason, you want to redefine the definition of "professional" without actually redefining it. You just want to exclude people you don't think are worthy. Why do you feel the need to denigrate people to justify your opinion? That isn't necessary.
Here is the definition of the word again: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/professional
I will say if someone on You Tube makes enough money to buy 100k cameras, I would classify them as a professional. If they can afford it, more power to them.
I would also say if they can afford 100k on cameras, they are probably included in the intended Mac Pro demographic. Which I think is too small of a niche. Only time will tell.
Mac Pro and the XDR display are expensive in the eyes of the consumer, equally for those that can utilise and make a living with such hardware it's not such a deep investment given the longevity of the system.
In comparison minimum spec MBP I'd consider is over $4K and I'd be looking at swapping it out after 24 months. A Mac Pro I would consider being good for at least 4-6 years, more depending on the ability to upgrade. Similar to the iMac Pro the Mac Pro is priced reasonably fairly for what you get in comparison to the likes of a HP Z Workstation, although the HP's chassis is more flexible at the cost of being a more utilitarian box.
Problem is many hoped Apple would offer a Mac Pro for the consumer & hobbyist at far lower price point, however that's not Apple's target audience for Mac Pro. The organisations and vast majority of individuals who purchase the Mac Pro will do so for one sole reason with it being an asset to their business and a function of profitability.
Personally if I was bound to an OS X workflow and not in a mobile role I would buy a reasonably spec'd Mac Pro, as for me it would pay for itself fairly rapidly and certainly offer far more longevity than any Mac notebook ever will...
The one big omission is the option for NVidia GPU's, other than that Mac Pro ticks a lot of boxes for a workstation, subject to the upgrade path being solid, admittedly I'd likely source other displays as I don't need the 6K XDR.
FWIW a fully spec'd Dell Precision portable workstation runs as high as $15K and that's just a notebook, they too are niche and they also sell...
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In comparison minimum spec MBP I'd consider is over $4K and I'd be looking at swapping it out after 24 months. A Mac Pro I would consider being good for at least 4-6 years, more depending on the ability to upgrade. Similar to the iMac Pro the Mac Pro is priced reasonably fairly for what you get in comparison to the likes of a HP Z Workstation, although the HP's chassis is more flexible at the cost of being a more utilitarian box.
Problem is many hoped Apple would offer a Mac Pro for the consumer & hobbyist at far lower price point, however that's not Apple's target audience for Mac Pro. The organisations and vast majority of individuals who purchase the Mac Pro will do so for one sole reason with it being an asset to their business and a function of profitability.
Personally if I was bound to an OS X workflow and not in a mobile role I would buy a reasonably spec'd Mac Pro, as for me it would pay for itself fairly rapidly and certainly offer far more longevity than any Mac notebook ever will...
The one big omission is the option for NVidia GPU's, other than that Mac Pro ticks a lot of boxes for a workstation, subject to the upgrade path being solid, admittedly I'd likely source other displays as I don't need the 6K XDR.
FWIW a fully spec'd Dell Precision portable workstation runs as high as $15K and that's just a notebook, they too are niche and they also sell...
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I work in film, vfx and tv. The budgets have progressively gotten worse over the years in this industry, and their is tons of consolidation in Los Angeles. A lot of big shops are blanketed under larger international conglomerates and when you break it all down, you realize just a handful of corporations own a lot the LA industry. It makes the environment very line item based, I would find it hard for a department head to be able to justify all the artists getting new MacPros over Linux or Windows builds. Outside of the corporate world of VFX, I am seeing people cut, color, finish entire 22min broadcast TV shows for 5k budgets. I see freelance editors making 55/hr, I see freelance colorists and VFX artists making 65/hr. Try raising a modern family in LA on 65/hr. A post producer told me the only place to squeeze costs are with the artists. Every year productions are expected to get cheaper and more efficient, paying artists less is how it’s been going. I saw entire VFX departments get 3 rounds of computers all from Apple, G5, a few rounds of Intel MacPro and lastly the MacPro 5,1, Most of those shops are PC or Linux now. I really don’t see them going back to the MacPro at 6k to 12k a head. Most all of those large VFX shops are Nvidia/Intel/SuperMicro/WhateverCrappy case and Linux or Windows.
That being said, there are still a few people making money, there are highly skilled Lighting/Texture/Look Dev people making money, One Person finishing shops that would buy these MacPro's. Profitable post shops could get the new MacPros as a Resolve finishing station, or AVID, but that is such a small market. If your company relied on One single efficient workstation, that could do work on AMD and doesn't need Nvidia or CUDA, then yeah the MacPro has a market.
I see more growth and money in tech and the software industry, and honesty those are the People that can afford the new MacPro's, it would just Be kinda overkill for most coders.
Also, 100% Apple needs to take the price down. Apple is getting national headlines about the price and the price of the monitor stand. Apple does not like bad press, they will lower the price, it is just a matter of how and when. Their biggest priority will be to make sure they never admit fault, so maybe a price drop during a refresh, or somehow lower it when it gets released.
FWIW - I concur with the above sentiment and think that, had the Pro started at $9,999 (with an actual non-joke configuration), then this product would make more sense. It IS niche - it is supposed to be niche - it is a massively powerful computer at the top end, built for video/audio professionals. And, that's great - I'm extremely happy that Apple is servicing this segment of the market and love the massive power they're throwing into this device. But the inclusion of a woefully under-specced $6k version just feels like a middle finger to the prosumer market, which certainly feels (anecdotal) like it should be a larger market share than the professional segment, and is not being served.
It's a goldilocks problem. Mac Mini is too small, underpowered (load-dependent); Mac Pro is too expensive, overpowered.... where's the prosumer version? Apple clearly thinks those folks should go to the iMac / iMac pro - but plenty of us aren't happy with disposable tech and wanted the "Mac" to the Mac Pro. Same chassis, non-Xeon, non-ECC Ram, etc. Give us that version as a midrange, from $3,500 - $5,999, with the same consumer-grade components that we can easily build ourselves in a windows box / hackintosh, and you eliminate every complaint in this thread about price/niche.
Apple seems to think this market segment isn't an important one. We seem to think they're wrong. They have a lot more research dollars poured into this question than we do, to be sure - but the enthusiast/hobbyist/gaming/prosumer computer market sure doesn't seem to be going anywhere based on everything I'm reading and seeing. Perhaps I'm just in a bubble of my own.
Lol, I'm not a lawyer? Okay.
What "very offensive" language did I use? That I called developers whiny, entitled and spoiled? That's offensive? Okay.
I am going to assume you're not from the United States--both because of your poor grammar and your ignorance of the court system.
You copied and pasted a link for the FEDERAL US dockets. There are FIFTY STATE COURT SYSTEMS PLUS THE FEDERAL COURTS (plus the territories, too). You do know that, right? (LOL---your "yes...official statistic"--you really got me there!).
There are about 40,000 tort claims in Illinois alone. That's one area of law. Don't believe me? Here: https://dockets.justia.com/browse/state-illinois/noscat-3. These don't count criminal cases and many other areas of law.
Although I will tell you California is down filings. How many cases in California, total? In 2012, there were 7.7 million. Don't believe me? Here: https://newsroom.courts.ca.gov/news/court-filings-decrease-in-fiscal-year-20122013
You can go ahead and browse every one of our beautiful 50 states (EXCEPT Jersey), plus the US District Court cases (which you cited) PLUS the territories of Guam and Puerto Rico and then tell me how many cases are a year are filed or are filed presently.
I normally wouldn't even respond to a post like this, but it was so incredibly ignorant, off base and frankly, low rent.
I guess I'm just a silly low paid clerk, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Probably think a little bit and do some research before running your mouth and revealing you don't have any idea what you are talking about.
100% Agree, the base config of the new MacPro is more overpriced considering the hardware specs, even for a premium product. As a pro user I want least 12 cores, 32 GB Ram, 64 be great, and the fastest biggest GPU possible, and the best monitor, the 6k base model has no hardware attractions other than just a getter CPU, TB3 and upgradability. It is great to have that expandability, but the base should have at least a Vega64 or whatever the latest GPU at that level, and 1tb SSD..
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If you make a ton of cash—millions and millions of dollars—using these things, you don’t care about the price. You don’t care about a stand either. You just buy them.
Of course they’re overpriced—they’re overpriced because Apple knows the intended audience will pay it—happily.
If you think you need this machine—truly NEED it—you probably don’t care about the price because you don’t have to pay it. Some manager somewhere approves the order on a company card or account.
Think about front row seats and skyboxes to NBA or NFL games—those aren’t meant for rapid sports fans or a guy taking his kids to a game. Those go to corporate clients who don’t care about paying thousands of dollars per ticket, as they are not paid for PERSONALLY.
This is an exclusive machine and display. It’s not for “prosumers.” I think most people know this and are just mad Apple’s newest shiny toy is for not podcasters and run of the mill YouTubers.