With this price? Yes. It is. I see many people who waited for Mac Pro for years will find price too restricting. Maybe off topic, but I do not think there was ever stronger reason to build Hackintosh than right now.
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MP 7,1 Is the new Mac Pro too niche?
- Thread starter maflynn
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You know, I'm also seeing another trend. People leaving Adobe Software. They are fed up with not being able to own their software and having to pay a subscription to access their artwork. I myself have purchased the full Affinity Software suite and I'm currently experimenting. Affinity Publisher will be out later this month and it looks interesting. Probably not ready for large publications, but I mostly do brochures, and trifolds so I'm curious to see how well it will work.
Apple is offering computers in extremes right now. I'm just going to concentrate on the Desktops below but this applies to their laptops too.
Mac Mini - Extremely dense and small with no expansion.
iMac - All in one, monitor whether you need one or not.
Mac Pro - Very pricey, ultimate expandability.
What they need really is a system that slots in between the Mac Pro and Mac Mini with the same specifications of the iMac but in a normal box form factor with PCIe slots. A normal Core i7/i9 CPU option, 4 DIMM slots etc
That's the kinda computer a lot of their customers actually want, that's the kind of computer being sold in 200+ million units a year world wide, that's the market Apple is not serving with the Mac Mini or Mac Pro. It's in the middle.
Mac Mini - Extremely dense and small with no expansion.
iMac - All in one, monitor whether you need one or not.
Mac Pro - Very pricey, ultimate expandability.
What they need really is a system that slots in between the Mac Pro and Mac Mini with the same specifications of the iMac but in a normal box form factor with PCIe slots. A normal Core i7/i9 CPU option, 4 DIMM slots etc
That's the kinda computer a lot of their customers actually want, that's the kind of computer being sold in 200+ million units a year world wide, that's the market Apple is not serving with the Mac Mini or Mac Pro. It's in the middle.
I still have a “30” apple monitor and a 5,1 and 32gb ram, a GTX 580 in my house. It is used for photoshop and illustrator, too slow for color or nuke or premiere or after effects, but it still works great for graphics. By any measure it has been an amazing investment. But now it is E.O.L. with 10.14 passing it by and now 10.15... I do remember the items being expensive when purchased and hurting a little, but this feels different, maybe it is because I am old now and it is not as exciting to sit in front of a computer for 12 hours a day to pay off your fancy gear.. 
But this hardware cycle seems more out of reach than ever. The first real video workstation that I personally owned, was the Blue and White "Power Macintosh G3" using Final Cut Pro 1.0 and that was base price $1,599, which accounting for inflation is $2,352.62 today. And the 6,1 trashcan was $2,999, now the entry level is $5,999. This doesn't feel like inflation anymore. Is this what Apple want's to be now? A company for only the very wealthy, rather than the more expensive, but worth the Price, alternative to a PC.
But this hardware cycle seems more out of reach than ever. The first real video workstation that I personally owned, was the Blue and White "Power Macintosh G3" using Final Cut Pro 1.0 and that was base price $1,599, which accounting for inflation is $2,352.62 today. And the 6,1 trashcan was $2,999, now the entry level is $5,999. This doesn't feel like inflation anymore. Is this what Apple want's to be now? A company for only the very wealthy, rather than the more expensive, but worth the Price, alternative to a PC.
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Cute, but only works if you mis-pronounce "niche".
If you got a niche, screech?
Shee. I have a lispth. Sho ish fine.
I agree, $6K for an 8 core Mac Pro with only a 256GB SSD is a crazy high price. I will keep my 6- core trash can since I use it with dual 4K 28" and 30" 1600p monitors and external TB2 PCIe SSDs.
I really admire the hackintosh scene but If you’re a professional and make your living with your Mac it should be a real one, with a fully licensed macOS.
Here's the view through my old eyes.
New Mac Pro is a tool... Hi tech tools cost big money. Look at the price of Tektronics scopes, I bought many of these in my day and cringed every time. (And the probes and carts were always big bucks extra). LOL
I'm moving toward VR /aVR and I see this:
I make a bare bones buy, no glitzy monitor. As time moves forward and my VR grows from headsets to surround displays, I build up this system as I go. At the end of, say 3-4 years, I sell the MP, or gift it to a relative or friend, and I move on to another interest. Have I won ? Or should I have just gone windows? Is there a VR nitche ? a2
New Mac Pro is a tool... Hi tech tools cost big money. Look at the price of Tektronics scopes, I bought many of these in my day and cringed every time. (And the probes and carts were always big bucks extra). LOL
I'm moving toward VR /aVR and I see this:
I make a bare bones buy, no glitzy monitor. As time moves forward and my VR grows from headsets to surround displays, I build up this system as I go. At the end of, say 3-4 years, I sell the MP, or gift it to a relative or friend, and I move on to another interest. Have I won ? Or should I have just gone windows? Is there a VR nitche ? a2
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Apple is really redefining the term "Pro" here to exclude a large base of users that they previously served and received strong brand loyalty from.
At least in the video production space, there's a wide market for a sort of "Mega Mini" with room for current i7 or i9 processors, a slot for a modern video card, 4 or 6 user accessible ram slots, and ideally a couple of drive bays or expansion slots. Such a computer could be made in the $2500-4000 price point and serve a lot of video pros who don't necessarily need to do 4k or 8k RAW on a daily basis. The majority of FCPX, Logic Pro and Creative Cloud users fall into this range.
Anyone with a trashcan who wants modern hardware is being told to be satisfied with iMacs, Minis or laptops with diminished specs and limited eGPUs, or moving to PCs. Apple is still leaving money on the table in this market.
At least in the video production space, there's a wide market for a sort of "Mega Mini" with room for current i7 or i9 processors, a slot for a modern video card, 4 or 6 user accessible ram slots, and ideally a couple of drive bays or expansion slots. Such a computer could be made in the $2500-4000 price point and serve a lot of video pros who don't necessarily need to do 4k or 8k RAW on a daily basis. The majority of FCPX, Logic Pro and Creative Cloud users fall into this range.
Anyone with a trashcan who wants modern hardware is being told to be satisfied with iMacs, Minis or laptops with diminished specs and limited eGPUs, or moving to PCs. Apple is still leaving money on the table in this market.
This is not without precedence. The Macintosh IIci listed for ~$8,800. The Macintosh IIfx for ~$9,000. The Quadra 950 for ~$8,500. Those are late 80's / early 90's prices.
Those machines have two things in common. They were introduced while Jobs was out, and Apple almost went bankrupt shortly after they were finally discontinued.
This machine by it's design is niche, [though] not sure where it falls on the continuum of niche-ness. Regardless, as I said in another post, my friends who are in industries (film/music production of various flavors ...) where they need this sort of machine are excited, and certainly customers. ECC RAM, massive power output, 2X2 GPUs, that's all niche (i.e. not more "general use"), the computer design defines it's position in the marketplace.
That being said, I __think__ the real discussion point: is there a "less niche" market, i.e., the more general computing space, and maybe some industry specific use where the hardware in the MP19 isn't needed? Sure, I probably fall into that buyer segment that includes some general/personal computing, but also use cases involving development (web/mobile/ML), running lots of local services, running multiple VMs/Containers, some lightweight photo/video editing. I could use a machine with half the slots, that runs off a standard PCI GPU, handles 64-128GB RAM, more than the Mini, less than the Pro, don't want an AOI (I prefer to source my displays independently), need much more flexibility than a notebook (and less thermal issues, have almost no need for portability / a backup machine when that is needed).
Again, I don't think this newly released MP is too niche, I think there's just a missing machine [from Apple's lineup] that's less so (and by design, would be less expensive).
That being said, I __think__ the real discussion point: is there a "less niche" market, i.e., the more general computing space, and maybe some industry specific use where the hardware in the MP19 isn't needed? Sure, I probably fall into that buyer segment that includes some general/personal computing, but also use cases involving development (web/mobile/ML), running lots of local services, running multiple VMs/Containers, some lightweight photo/video editing. I could use a machine with half the slots, that runs off a standard PCI GPU, handles 64-128GB RAM, more than the Mini, less than the Pro, don't want an AOI (I prefer to source my displays independently), need much more flexibility than a notebook (and less thermal issues, have almost no need for portability / a backup machine when that is needed).
Again, I don't think this newly released MP is too niche, I think there's just a missing machine [from Apple's lineup] that's less so (and by design, would be less expensive).
Yes, I'd say it is. The hardware is designed for a specific niche group and is overkill in certain areas for the majority of professional use cases such as graphic arts, music production and photography. Certainly we don't need massive graphics throughput or accelerators, ECC memory or Xeon processors but we do need powerful processors, tons of fast RAM and the ability to expand and upgrade the system moving forward. Apple have created a high end workstation for a very specific group and I suspect it will sell in small numbers (relatively) as a consequence. Apple have essentially made a cost-no-object piece of tech that while impressive, brings nothing to the huge middle ground of creative professionals.
As a person and artist that uses both, Adobe is still miles ahead, and with much better plug in support. And what do you mean you can't access your work. You can save your work anywhere you please. I use OneDrive and Local storage. I have never really used Creative Cloud for storage as I don't want another "cloud" to keep up with. There is also Adobe Elements if you want to own it. I myself prefer the sub. I rather that then $200 bucks every couple years for updates. And the bottom line is, you never own any software, it is all licensed.
This x1000.
I expect them to sell fewer than 100K Mac Pro units a year. Only a fraction of which will include a monitor sale. And a further fraction of which will be with the stand. LOL.
When I say <100k I mean >20k but <100k units a year.
I agree with your numbers. I think they'll sell be hard pressed to sell more than 30,000 a year. For sure under 100K like you said.