Other It’s not about privacy for Apple.

[Apple Fan 2008]

Also, DDG's app could be looking for different things than Safari is.

Bad news if you use DuckDuckGo - It's not quite as private as we thought

You have plenty of search engines that promote privacy, with DuckDuckGo the most popular. But it's been caught tracking IP addresses.

www.komando.com

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

Bad news if you use DuckDuckGo - It's not quite as private as we thought

You have plenty of search engines that promote privacy, with DuckDuckGo the most popular. But it's been caught tracking IP addresses.

www.komando.com

DuckDuckGo is not to be trusted

 

[moons_mooniverse]

Thanks for the setting on how to turn of music tracking!!

But komando.com doesn’t seem to be a serious source for me. Other sites like wired.com (which I personally trust more) state the opposite than what it says in the article.

 

[unrigestered]

something i've just accidently stumbled upon

Jeffrey Paul: macOS 11.2 Network Privacy

 

[SaguaroSeven]

It’s a business strategy only.

The pole is an question is interesting, but your points are all FUD. There are probably some interesting responses on both sides, but I'm not going to read 6 pages of this stuff. I have to wonder whether this is just trolling or serious, but I'll take the bait.

"Is Apple serious about privacy?" Absolutely, to a point. That point is far beyond most every other (tech) company. A more interesting question is whether Apple's privacy matches their marketing. Probably not, but what does live up to corporate marketing? And if something is "a business strategy" it doesn't mean it isn't for-real or Apple isn't serious about it. Companies can be very serious about their strategies.

1. "Hidden tracker on Apple.com" - Firefox using strict protection doesn't show any known trackers. Every site you visit has to use some kind of "tracker" which usually refers to 3rd party tracking. If Apple didn't follow what you're doing on their site, you couldn't put something in your cart, for example. Do you understand what DDG is telling you? You don't say what this tracker is, nor do you seem to know...
2. "Apple Notes collects the content of your notes and links it to your identity." This is called iCloud and most people think it's a feature -- and like it. BTW, there's a switch in settings to turn it off.
3. "Apple Music collects..." Not sure what "content" you mean, but Apple has to know who you are to provide the service you're paying for. They have to know what songs you listen to because they served them to you. Do they keep this history? Sure, to recommend more songs. So maybe try Spotify or Amazon Music. I'm sure they don't keep your play history...

Imagine a company you did buseines with did NOT keep any info about you. How exactly would that work? YOU: I would like you to repair this iPhone I just bought. Apple: Sorry, we have no recrodd that you bought that iPhone. YOU: Play my Running Playlist. Apple: I don't know who you are so I can' t play your Running list. By the way, you don't seem to have an Apple Music subscription...

This is like saying "I feel like Pluto should be a planet." Have you studies astronomy or astrophysics? "No, but I feel like like its not fair..."

Ok, I read on in your post it seems more likely that you registered an account just to troll this topic. Touché! You got me.

 

[Tagbert]

Because I’m making use of notes very heavily for years now. I have more than 9000 notes now. Export is nearly impossible. Apple offers only export as .pdf. Trying to switch right now since I got some help (automations) in another thread a couple of days ago.

What do you think that Apple is doing with your notes? What evidence do you have that they are reading them? Why would they? Or do you just mean that they are storing them on the iCloud servers as requested?

 

[cupcakes2000]

What do you think that Apple is doing with your notes? What evidence do you have that they are reading them? Why would they? Or do you just mean that they are storing them on the iCloud servers as requested?

I don’t agree with the ops entire premise, but unless the notes are e2e encrypted (perfectly possible in Apple Notes by adding a password), they could conceivably be read. Or, more likely AI scanned in someway, in a similar manner to what Google got caught doing with gmail.

I don’t think Apple do this, but they perfectly could. This is why, whilst I use Apple products and trust them to a point, you should use encryption when available and search for better options when not. I use iCloud Drive, for example - but with Cryptomator.

Regarding trust - I pay for stuff from Apple, they have all my details by necessity, and I feel you do have to decide to trust at least a couple of companies if you want to live a high tech life in a normal-ish manner, but it’s definitely better to strive to use software with the element of trust removed so there is less need to worry.

 

[Jackbequickly]

After reading all of the above, I will still pick Apple over Google. Neither are perfect but Google is in the same “basket” with the FBI and DOJ.

 

[dk001]

What do you think that Apple is doing with your notes? What evidence do you have that they are reading them? Why would they? Or do you just mean that they are storing them on the iCloud servers as requested?

That is the real question and unfortunately we as users are being treated as mushrooms.

 

[Tagbert]

That is the real question and unfortunately we as users are being treated as mushrooms.

Still, there seem to be some big assumptions and accusations in the original post but not much to backup the position.

 

[dk001]

Still, there seem to be some big assumptions and accusations in the original post but not much to backup the position.

Saw the same when the original discussion on CSAM and privacy came up in iOS14. Apple gives out no real information and folks tend to rely on supposition, rumor, and what can be pulled by examining code/data. If smoke is seen a number will yell fire while another claims all is well.

 

[platinumaqua]

1. "Hidden tracker on Apple.com" - Firefox using strict protection doesn't show any known trackers. Every site you visit has to use some kind of "tracker" which usually refers to 3rd party tracking. If Apple didn't follow what you're doing on their site, you couldn't put something in your cart, for example. Do you understand what DDG is telling you? You don't say what this tracker is, nor do you seem to know...

Firefox tracking protection doesn't catch everything. Here is what uBlock origin caught with EasyPrivacy list enabled

 

[I7guy]

Saw the same when the original discussion on CSAM and privacy came up in iOS14. Apple gives out no real information and folks tend to rely on supposition, rumor, and what can be pulled by examining code/data. If smoke is seen a number will yell fire while another claims all is well.

Yep, that's the nature of these discussions sometimes. However, the original premise of the thread: "It's not about privacy for Apple", I disagree with, it's all about privacy. Which is why Apple does CSAM scanning, while google does real time AI detection, flagging innocent people in the process.

If one wants absolute privacy, there are technical solutions out there, and the people who want that should stay away from apple, google and android.

 

[unrigestered]

so Microsoft it is 🤓

but it is correct, if you really want privacy, don't use the internet, telephones, televisions and while we're at it: electronic cash / credit cards too

that still requires that you aren't living in a country with cameras/microphones everywhere and the likelihood that the next person to you is not reporting everything you say or do to some institution.

 

[dk001]

Yep, that's the nature of these discussions sometimes. However, the original premise of the thread: "It's not about privacy for Apple", I disagree with, it's all about privacy. Which is why Apple does CSAM scanning, while google does real time AI detection, flagging innocent people in the process.

If one wants absolute privacy, there are technical solutions out there, and the people who want that should stay away from apple, google and android.

From what I have seen Apple does just enough to make the claim. The fact they are not ad driven does help. IMHO I feel Apple is doing this more for the sales / marketing than for the user directly. I do appreciate the fact that Apple's direction has pushed for others to change a bit. What I don't appreciate is Apple's claim they don't give out your data yet it vanishes down a rabbit hole that Apple remains totally mum about.

For CSAM, I know Apple scans email and scans iCloud at LEO request. It does the AI thing on iMessages. Beyond that I hope they are not doing anything else.

 

[I7guy]

From what I have seen Apple does just enough to make the claim. The fact they are not ad driven does help. IMHO I feel Apple is doing this more for the sales / marketing than for the user directly.

Yeah, I believe they are doing this because it's the right thing to do.

I do appreciate the fact that Apple's direction has pushed for others to change a bit. What I don't appreciate is Apple's claim they don't give out your data yet it vanishes down a rabbit hole that Apple remains totally mum about.

You can order up your data from Apple. I did.

Either you believe Apple doesn't give out your data or don't. However, if Apple made some claim and they were caught in a mistruth it could be bad for their image. Also, try to get all of your data from google or any other of the myriad of companies your have trusted with your name, address, social, cc, date of birth, etc.

For CSAM, I know Apple scans email and scans iCloud at LEO request. It does the AI thing on iMessages. Beyond that I hope they are not doing anything else.

We don't know, they never said one way or another. We can speculate, but that's where it ends.

 

[dk001]

Yeah, I believe they are doing this because it's the right thing to do.

You can order up your data from Apple. I did.

Either you believe Apple doesn't give out your data or don't. However, if Apple made some claim and they were caught in a mistruth it could be bad for their image. Also, try to get all of your data from google or any other of the myriad of companies your have trusted with your name, address, social, cc, date of birth, etc.

We don't know, they never said one way or another. We can speculate, but that's where it ends.

I have ordered up my data. Do each id at least 1x a year.

It isn’t that Apple gives it out to 3rd parties, it is rather I have no idea what they do with it or how they handle it.

 

[I7guy]

I have ordered up my data. Do each id at least 1x a year.

It isn’t that Apple gives it out to 3rd parties, it is rather I have no idea what they do with it or how they handle it.

I’m sure what they do with each piece of data is buried in their privacy policy.

For what it’s worth, we’re all different but I don’t ask my banks, cable company, cell phone provider, car dealers, electric company, gas company, streaming services, and etc how they handle my pii or extended pii.

So I trust apple adheres to its privacy policy at least mostly.

 

[Mark Stone]

Everyone is different. I hate ads, so if I'm doing something, even if it's looking for a product I wish to buy, I don't want to see ads.

Why? Because I won't be pushed. You can make me go from zero to white hot, all consuming rage in nothing flat by trying to push me. And that's what ads do.

And 9 times out of 10, the product being pushed at me is garbage. So now you're pushing me to spend my money on garbage.

No.

Responding to ads is not obligatory. If they appear, and you were not interested, scroll on . . . no one is “pushing” you 😊 —- but sometimes if you’re looking for a product, they are quite helpful.

For example, I was looking for “minimalist” small wallets recently. I checked out a couple of websites looking for one, and wasn’t happy with what I found. The next time I logged into Bookface, there were numerous ads from companies selling - and one stood out (Grip6 if yer interested).

No one is “pushing” you.

 

[eyoungren]

Responding to ads is not obligatory. If they appear, and you were not interested, scroll on . . . no one is “pushing” you 😊 —- but sometimes if you’re looking for a product, they are quite helpful.

For example, I was looking for “minimalist” small wallets recently. I checked out a couple of websites looking for one, and wasn’t happy with what I found. The next time I logged into Bookface, there were numerous ads from companies selling - and one stood out (Grip6 if yer interested).

No one is “pushing” you.

I guess it's down to our approach. The fact that the ads are there means I'm being pushed (to me). I'm one of those types that will mute the TV during commercials (or change the channel). I can't control ads on my TV, but I can control them on my computer.

If I'm looking for something, well, that's what Google is for. Take your example of wallets. I bought a Ridge wallet in late December because I wanted something different. So I did a Google search. After reading the reviews I went to eBay and bought one for less than what the manufacturer's website was selling them for - new in box.

And that's usually how I shop. I'll do a Google search for X, find something interesting, do my research and then hit up eBay or Amazon. We found a new Mexican restaurant about a month ago because I went to Google Maps and started clicking on stuff in my area. The Google reviews were fairly good so we tried it. Now our go to Mexican restaurant.

So this is why I think ads are invasive and pushy - because they're there and I didn't ask them to be. When I want/need something I'll go looking for it.

Note, I am not saying you're wrong and I'm right. We're just different in our approach.

 

[dk001]

Ads to me are like billboards. A couple / few are tolerated. When billboards proliferate they become more than annoying. They interfere and clog the landscape.
I do the majority of my shopping online and would say I have bought, because of an ad in the last year - well you can count that on one hand and have digits still available. I identify something I want or need. Do the research and then decide whether or not and from where to procure. Ads do not change that.

 

[SaguaroSeven]

I don’t agree with the ops entire premise, but unless the notes are e2e encrypted (perfectly possible in Apple Notes by adding a password), they could conceivably be read. Or, more likely AI scanned in someway, in a similar manner to what Google got caught doing with gmail.

Not sure stuff in iCloud can be read without significant effort by Apple. Indeed, a quick google reveals that Notes are encrypted in transit and at rest. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

However, ALL your iCloud datz belongs to Law Enforcement with a warrant. Just like Gmail... Meaning that Apple holds the key, but it's held by Apple somewhere else. So if Apple were hacked, your info is still encrypted.

Messages is a special case depending on whether you use messages in the cloud and iCloud backup for your devices.
(none of this worries me particularly)

 

[chama98]

Depends which country you live in. For example in the uk. This applies. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisation...rsonal-data-with-law-enforcement-authorities/

 

[SaguaroSeven]

I don’t like how they make use of their power. For examples turning IDFA of by default on iOS 15.4 although it was them who created it to attract more developers. The message “Ask app not to track” suggests for most user “Oh, the evil app wants to track me. No, I don’t want this.”
But it all started with Apple tracking their users and sharing this data with app developers without asking them.

ATT is about 3rd party tracking. You cannot stop the website you visit (or service you use in an app) from tracking what you do on the page or in the app. Does Apple play up the privacy in ATT, yes. Could they say more, sure.

But in general, I trust Apple to do things correctly (securely) and respect my privacy much more than 3rd parties, whether advertisers, trackers, or developers. Every service you use exposes your info (whatever the service has) to potential breach through hack or developer ineptitude. For example, Symantec released a report highlighting how *many* iOS developers have hard-coded AWS credentials into their apps, putting customer and corporate data at extreme risk, for anyone to see who examines the app.

Over 1,800 Android and iOS Apps Found Leaking Hard-Coded AWS Credentials

Researchers have identified 1,859 apps for Android and iOS containing hard-coded Amazon Web Services (AWS) credentials, posing a major security risk.

thehackernews.com

Mobile App Supply Chain Vulnerabilities Could Endanger Sensitive Business Information

Over three-quarters of the apps Symantec analyzed contained valid AWS access tokens that allowed access to private AWS cloud services.

symantec-enterprise-blogs.security.com

 

[SaguaroSeven]

Depends which country you live in. For example in the uk. This applies. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisation...rsonal-data-with-law-enforcement-authorities/

Fair enough. YMMV.