It's telling that you can get one of these for LESS than an iPT.

[1458279]

Just read about this: http://bluboo.com.cn/xtouch_d.html

For less money than the latest iPT, you can get a FULL PHONE with better camera, larger screen, and 8X core processor. I'm not sure how all the specs compare, but I just don't see how Apple will be able to continue more that a few years with the real growth being in poor nations.

I'm a fan of Apple products, but this is really telling about the profit margin they are asking (and many are paying). If I wasn't so invested in Apple ecosystem as an app developer, I'd switch, even if I just needed an MP3 player, this is really a better deal. I can't see people in Asia dishing out the same money for an iPT when they can get a higher spec'd phone.

 

[Jessica Lares]

It's a better deal for you because you might be well invested into Apple's ecosystem, but you are not well invested into iTunes itself. Some of us use every little thing in that program, we run many of the DougScripts stuff, and might have complex setups just for dealing with our various storage sizes.

We are like the guys who won't ditch their Blackberry phones because of the physical keyboard.

 

[Shirasaki]

Comparing specs with other devices just shows half of the picture.
What Apple sells to us is not only a single device. It's an ecosystem, mature, and huge.
I cannot say you can find all what you want in here, but mostly basic stuff and basic need can easily be found in Apple ecosystem with little to no effort.

 

[thatanonymoususer]

Ecosystem is what Apple devices are all about. I've always told myself that if I ever bought into Android and bought all android phones from here on out, I would probably still keep an up-to-date iPod Touch just to have continued access to my huge app collection that iTunes lets me keep backups of, not to mention having access to iTunes Match, etc.

 

[Plutonius]

Just read about this: http://bluboo.com.cn/xtouch_d.html

For less money than the latest iPT, you can get a FULL PHONE with better camera, larger screen, and 8X core processor. I'm not sure how all the specs compare, but I just don't see how Apple will be able to continue more that a few years with the real growth being in poor nations.

I'm a fan of Apple products, but this is really telling about the profit margin they are asking (and many are paying). If I wasn't so invested in Apple ecosystem as an app developer, I'd switch, even if I just needed an MP3 player, this is really a better deal. I can't see people in Asia dishing out the same money for an iPT when they can get a higher spec'd phone.

You can also get a cheaper PC with better specs then a Mac but I would not want one.

The profit margin is between 37% and 39% so it's not all about profit margin.

 

[1458279]

I understand the ecosystem and actually iOS is MUCH better than anything Droid has and might be for quite a while, but this is like an iPhone at the cost of an iPT. That's huge because the price factor is what 3X? between the iPhone and the iPT?

One other point is that the ecosystem vs price point isn't going to help the vast majority of humans that simply can't pay a years wages for a phone. It's like saying a Bentley is better than a cheap pickup, but those that can't afford a Bentley aren't in that market and Apple has nothing in the market place for most people and the ecosystem won't make those people rich enough to afford that.

 

[maxsix]

Apple has brilliant marketing, a price is no object game for them. With Billions and Billions spilling out of the coffers Apple can afford to hype the product world wide. Android and the handset makers haven't the money, or the organization to match the Apple juggernaut. With a head start prior to even getting in the smartphone business Apple was a very well known name. The talk about the ecosystem is but a small part, since the Google Play store has become mature and the apps are just as good as iPhone apps.

Those who are living in the past when comparing them were correct 5 years ago, but that was then, this is now, both my Android phone and iPhone are running Evernote, Chrome, Gmail, Google Calendar and on and on it goes, these apps are all smooth fast and in the area of stability, the Nexus / Android combo is crash free. I cannot say that about any of the iPhones I've had, and I've had them all up to the current model. My iPhone is quite nice, but it's not as fast, stable and reliable as my Android. Neither are the other five iPhone 6S models I bought for my family members. Actually one of the best iPhones if we're talking about real world day to day use, was the 5S. We had four of those and they were terrific. Totally trouble free.

 

[1458279]

That's another interesting point, the ecosystems will balance out at some point when the number of users is so great that the market can't be ignored. Android has been seen in the past as the home for "crapware" but given the vast numbers, it's hard for a developer to ignore for too long.

Even if Apple users spend more per app, the sheer number of Android users will force the market to mature.

Given that hardware advances are short lived, soon you'll find that whatever advances Apple offers will soon be mainstream. I just can't see how Apple will be able to continue with over price devices like the iPT when better, cheaper options are out there.

Remember, this is a comparison of the iPT to a REAL FULL phone. It's bigger, faster, better cameras and cheaper, and has a real phone.

 

[Jessica Lares]

I've had both Android and Windows Phones, they're fine, I just like iOS better. And even if they came in all the same price points, the same casing, I'd still buy an iOS device.

Why does the technology have to be cheap? Why do we have to make a 4K screen affordable to the person who can't even afford to subscribe to Netflix?

 

[1458279]

If you look back at PC OS's you see that the lines became blurred. The PC vs Mac became hard to tell the difference. The same things will happen with phones are they are really computers more than phones.

Remember that Windows phones had the 'flat' OS 1st while Apple was still "3D". Things like active tiles, etc become more universal. Same as the laptop race, they all start looking the same after awhile.

As far as tech getting cheap, it's about businesses offering something to a market that others aren't addressing. Clearly, Apple isn't addressing the low income crowd. That's their choice, but others see that all tech comes down in price and they look for a point where they can gain huge market share by addressing it.
You could reverse the question and ask "why does the tech have to be expensive?" Thus allowing more people all over the world to enjoy something they wouldn't have been able to otherwise.

Not to mention, these phones are outdated about every year. I pad new $300 for my 2nd iPT and now it has a value of about $30 and won't support anything over iOS 6. Once the battery needs replacement, it might not be worth saving.

If you look at the life span of these devices, it changes the whole cost factor. Apple seems to play on this as well. Consider the latest Mini, it has not iBeacon and can't to Apple Pay. They've made it outdated before it was produced.

 

[thatanonymoususer]

I understand the ecosystem and actually iOS is MUCH better than anything Droid has and might be for quite a while, but this is like an iPhone at the cost of an iPT. That's huge because the price factor is what 3X? between the iPhone and the iPT?

One other point is that the ecosystem vs price point isn't going to help the vast majority of humans that simply can't pay a years wages for a phone. It's like saying a Bentley is better than a cheap pickup, but those that can't afford a Bentley aren't in that market and Apple has nothing in the market place for most people and the ecosystem won't make those people rich enough to afford that.

You could also use this argument for used BMW's. A used car can be significantly cheaper than the current crop and still function well if it was well-designed from the start. I recently got a 5s for $200 from eBay. It's not scratch-free on the back, but the front is great. It's only a 2-year old device.

It's still possible to get into the BMW club at under 10k, but you need to be willing to get the older stuff.

 

[Jessica Lares]

The latest Mini actually DOES have Apple Pay according to the website.

It has to be expensive because it has to be sustainable. It's not just about the components of the device either. Do you really think that all that extra money just goes into someone's pockets?

I don't agree about PC operating systems being not much different now. No way. There are a lot of things I can do out of the box on OS X that I still have to get an extra app for on Windows.

 

[1458279]

You could also use this argument for used BMW's. A used car can be significantly cheaper than the current crop and still function well if it was well-designed from the start. I recently got a 5s for $200 from eBay. It's not scratch-free on the back, but the front is great. It's only a 2-year old device.

It's still possible to get into the BMW club at under 10k, but you need to be willing to get the older stuff.

This is very true and offers a good option, however, sometimes the specs or standards change and you need something newer to take advantage of certain things. In poorer countries, being able to have a fully secure device that allows for mobile transactions could be very important. Otherwise, having a 2 year old device can work very well.

The latest Mini actually DOES have Apple Pay according to the website.

It has to be expensive because it has to be sustainable. It's not just about the components of the device either. Do you really think that all that extra money just goes into someone's pockets?

I don't agree about PC operating systems being not much different now. No way. There are a lot of things I can do out of the box on OS X that I still have to get an extra app for on Windows.

Looks like I was wrong about the finger print thing on the mini.

On the PC vs Mac, I was thinking about the old days when the GUI became standard. Windows changed things for the PC at a time when the Mac was simply a better machine. Macs where much more expensive and used for desktop publishing, Windows changed things by adopting some of the functionality that Mac had.

The point is that there will always be leap frogging, but whatever one platform offers, others will usually follow in time, more so if other platforms have large numbers. Android has large numbers and will someday offer better security and an improved ecosystem. Might not see that with the Windows phone as they don't have large numbers.

Even Windows vs OSX, Windows is jumping around trying to save themselves by offering more (too bad for them it might be too little too late)

 

[thatanonymoususer]

@KarlJay, the problem with Microsoft is that they've gotten stuck in the image of ye olde Microsoft where they use Windows Phone 10 for their marketed phone OS name. They've essentially been using the same name all throughout, and no one knows that they've changed. Their old name for a completely different OS to compete with Palm OS was Windows Mobile. I think a lot has changed. They just need to market it as such.

 

[raccoonboy]

I think for a heavy user, I mean those who play with their phone (devices) all the time will find ios a lot smoother. The scrolling on FB and news feed ... whatever. On the other hand, their products are getting redundant. You can simply own an iPhone and ditch ipad and ipod touch. Latters are just useless. You can pretend you have a use for them but really you don't. If you carry an android then you will probably want to have ipod touch or ipad.

For me, I own an IPhone 6 already so I will spend money getting a Vita with real games.

 

[1458279]

@KarlJay, the problem with Microsoft is that they've gotten stuck in the image of ye olde Microsoft where they use Windows Phone 10 for their marketed phone OS name. They've essentially been using the same name all throughout, and no one knows that they've changed. Their old name for a completely different OS to compete with Palm OS was Windows Mobile. I think a lot has changed. They just need to market it as such.

That's a good point, they should drop everything and come up with a whole new name and spend some money marketing it just to get people to look at what they have to offer. They tried that somewhat a while back when they had active tiles, but it didn't seem to be enough.

IMO, they would be wise to buy BlackBerry and come up with a universal OS for mobile devices that offers BB's level of security and a wicked fast native OS with a dev platform based on a true native compiled language like C# or C++/VB combo.

This would bring in tons of developers because Apple has the OS and native compiled fast apps, but odd, goofy languages that nobody knows or aren't based much on past OO languages. Android has a non-secured platform with a slow language that's not native compiled.

As a platform matures, the demands for advanced programs do too. The problem with mobile is the processors can't run faster, too much heat. So they go with more cores and this requires advanced programming knowledge and native code is always faster.

These are the main reasons I picked iOS over others. Although the languages for iOS suck, they at least have the power to get the job done and make advanced products.

 

[theluggage]

Just read about this: http://bluboo.com.cn/xtouch_d.html
For less money than the latest iPT, you can get a FULL PHONE with better camera, larger screen, and 8X core processor.

Wow, yes, I mean (to quote a few choice phrases from the website):

"It shocks you with how it looks and feels with excellent technology craft of perfect combination of metal and glass."
"Tough front shape but with subtle radian. 3D mirror back craft, shine no matter where you are!"
"Charming appearance make you drunk"

Now, let me be perfectly clear: I'm not deriding a non-native English speaker because of their awkward language (I might chuckle privately, but never publicly deride). That would be hypocritical since their English is infinitely better than my Mandarin. If this were some free/open-source software project or a specialist device from a tiny company not geared up for export then I'd have boundless tolerance and gratitude for whatever English they could muster in the face of my pathetic monoglot-ness.

However, this is not a person trying their best to communicate in a foreign tongue. This is a company that wants to market their products in the English-speaking world. They have resources - you don't mass-produce consumer electronics from your mum's garage any more - so they have the resources to employ a professional translator or, at least, get an English speaker to proof-read their website.

In the past, I've written software for Japanese clients, and even at the tiny, sole trader, cottage-industry scale that I was working at, I managed to have an actual Japanese person translate the text and test the result. How hard can it be?

Why are you surprised that a product direct from an unknown Chinese supplier appears, at least superficially, to offer more bangs-per-buck than a premium brand name product? If they can't be bothered to translate their marketing material into proper English, what do you think their English-language after sales support is going to be like? What other corners might they have cut?

 

[nifta]

I was looking forward to trying their 'intimate gesture function'. Sounds sexy.

Joking aside, it's a bargain at $149 (or $99 for the lucky few), even if the customer support will suck.

 

[pika2000]

A cheap chinese Android device is a dime a dozen. They can have all the greatest spec on paper, but in the end, they are cheap Chinese Android devices.

Reliability and support. With the amount of electronics packed in such small space, there's always room for failure. Even high profiled devices from big names like Apple/Sony/Samsung/etc can fail. But there's quality control and the failure rate is probably low. Do you want to pay less and risk higher possibility of device failure? And if it does fail, where do you go? I can just go to an Apple store and get my iDevices replaced.

Having said that, I do think that a lower cost mid-range Android phones can be a great MP3 player, especially those that have SD card slot. Xiaomi, Sony Android devices are great alternatives (if you don't need the convenience of iTunes).

 

[ackmondual]

I don't know about IpT, but the Iph has quite the profit margin... for every $600 to $650 iPhone sold, it only costs Apple $200 or so to make. For this reason, many cell phone vendors push Androids onto customers b/c they get a bigger cut of profits for themselves.

Specs aren't everything (although to be fair, Iphones have had some nice ones), but there are those that matter to both sides. I know there have been some iOS users that have been clamoring for iPads and iPhones with 2 GB of RAM for the longest times now.

A great deal of apps and stuff that you can do on an iPhone OS device can also be done on Android phones. I still keep my IpT5 around b/c I've purchased about $200 worth of games on there, and still have a huge backlog of games. With 1 or 2 exceptions, I haven't spent ANY money on any new games, I probably won't for the next few years.

It would be neat if Apple could offer even cheaper Iph (and no, the Iph5C didn't work out quite well), but if it was too cheap, it probably wouldn't be an Iphone anymore. I remember somebody here on MacRumors asking for alternatives to Iphones because to buy one from Brazil costs $1300! Many of the OSX computers cost 10 to 50% more when buying from other countries, of which they're already more expensive than PC or Linux alternatives even in the US!

 

[1458279]

Another issue the Microsoft has is that their whole business model was "use contracts to get our product on other devices" ... So if you bought a Dell, Compac, or HP computer, it came with Windows pre-installed.

They can't do this with mobile devices at this point. Every device has an OS already, and MS didn't make a "better" OS they could sell as pre-installed by the OEM.

The fact is that MS's success was based on volume, they owned the PC market simply because their OS was pre-installed and reached critical mass where nobody could compete against it.

So they tried to make inroads by making mobile hardware, but the ship has already left the port. The eco systems have already matured enough to where MS doesn't have a natural leverage.

Kind of sweet payback, Linux and others had a great product for free, yet Windows became the leader and MS made HUGE $$$ based on a second rate product in a market where people could get a comparable or better product FREE!

Now that whole mafia business model is dead in the water even if MS comes up with an awesome product line, they'll still be 3rd place for the foreseeable future. Even their long standing money makers are going to struggle in a mobile world.

 

[1458279]

A cheap chinese Android device is a dime a dozen. They can have all the greatest spec on paper, but in the end, they are cheap Chinese Android devices.

Reliability and support. With the amount of electronics packed in such small space, there's always room for failure. Even high profiled devices from big names like Apple/Sony/Samsung/etc can fail. But there's quality control and the failure rate is probably low. Do you want to pay less and risk higher possibility of device failure? And if it does fail, where do you go? I can just go to an Apple store and get my iDevices replaced.

Having said that, I do think that a lower cost mid-range Android phones can be a great MP3 player, especially those that have SD card slot. Xiaomi, Sony Android devices are great alternatives (if you don't need the convenience of iTunes).

Remember, the iPhone is made in China.
Saying this product is "a cheep Chinese Android device" is at least premature, it hasn't been released (AFAIK) so nobody really knows if it's cheep quality or cheep price. Or at least most of us don't know of it's quality yet.

Keep in mind, again, most of the people on this planet can't afford an iPhone. Look at the income levels in developing nations. Most of the world is broke. Most nations at this point don't even have a reasonable path to get out of the economic stalemate they are in, meanwhile, China is spending $180,000,000,000.00 on new robots to replace human workers. Most humans are dependent on selling their time to earn their keep, they're selling into a shrinking market.

 

[pika2000]

Remember, the iPhone is made in China.
Saying this product is "a cheep Chinese Android device" is at least premature, it hasn't been released (AFAIK) so nobody really knows if it's cheep quality or cheep price. Or at least most of us don't know of it's quality yet.

Keep in mind, again, most of the people on this planet can't afford an iPhone. Look at the income levels in developing nations. Most of the world is broke. Most nations at this point don't even have a reasonable path to get out of the economic stalemate they are in, meanwhile, China is spending $180,000,000,000.00 on new robots to replace human workers. Most humans are dependent on selling their time to earn their keep, they're selling into a shrinking market.

Can you go back to the topic at hand? You are the topic starter. This has nothing to do with income level or whatever you want to brag about Chinese as an economy. Your main thread is about this unknown Chinese phone and how you thought it's a better solution than an iPod Touch.

Apple has a brand to protect. Regardless where the iPhone/iPod is made, there will be quality control and support.
This company is not even known. You can go to Amazon and browse dozens of unknown cheap Chinese phones with impressive spec on paper. Again, as I pointed out on my comment if you actually read it, if there are problems with the device, where would you go?

And I did not dismiss Chinese phones completely. I mentioned Xiaomi as a positive alternative in my own comment. That is again, if you actually read it before you went off the wall about China and robots.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Eco-system, eco-system, eco-system...

How many times has iTunes store gone down in the past 6 months? The App store? How many issues have people had with rather significant bugs on the releases of updates. How much of a mess has iTunes gotten from a ui standpoint over the past few years or so.

Sure, it IS an eco-system, but it's showing a lot more rough edges at this juncture than it ever has in the past, IMO...

I've got Mail rules that don't work, and that don't replicate to the other macs, and my iDevices. I've had my iTunes database crash several times over the past 5 years, twice having to rebuild and reload everything from physical media into an empty database because Apple engineers thought that the database had been corrupted for months leading up to the fetal position crashes.

Maybe I'm just barking at the moon, and need a holiday, but the little flaws seem to be getting larger, and the UI for many products seems to be getting more abusive. (Find shuffle on Music on an iPhone!)

Don't get me wrong, I'd beat someone to death rather than give them my iPhone, iPad, etc, but the little issues are getting more annoying, and seem to be getting more numerous...

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Can you go back to the topic at hand? You are the topic starter. This has nothing to do with income level or whatever you want to brag about Chinese as an economy. Your main thread is about this unknown Chinese phone and how you thought it's a better solution than an iPod Touch.

Apple has a brand to protect. Regardless where the iPhone/iPod is made, there will be quality control and support.
This company is not even known. You can go to Amazon and browse dozens of unknown cheap Chinese phones with impressive spec on paper. Again, as I pointed out on my comment if you actually read it, if there are problems with the device, where would you go?

And I did not dismiss Chinese phones completely. I mentioned Xiaomi as a positive alternative in my own comment. That is again, if you actually read it before you went off the wall about China and robots.

To me, it's absurd to talk about getting a phone instead of a Touch.

One, I already have a phone, and two, the places I use my Touch make it inconvienient to use a 'phone'. Traveling: I use my Touch so I have a charged phone when I get where ever I'm going. To me, I use the same chargers, the same ear buds/headphones, having both traveling isn't a burden. PLUS I get to have the same content, if I want, on both devices...