It's telling that you can get one of these for LESS than an iPT.

[1458279]

Can you go back to the topic at hand? You are the topic starter. This has nothing to do with income level or whatever you want to brag about Chinese as an economy. Your main thread is about this unknown Chinese phone and how you thought it's a better solution than an iPod Touch.

Apple has a brand to protect. Regardless where the iPhone/iPod is made, there will be quality control and support.
This company is not even known. You can go to Amazon and browse dozens of unknown cheap Chinese phones with impressive spec on paper. Again, as I pointed out on my comment if you actually read it, if there are problems with the device, where would you go?

And I did not dismiss Chinese phones completely. I mentioned Xiaomi as a positive alternative in my own comment. That is again, if you actually read it before you went off the wall about China and robots.

Part of the "better solution than an iPod Touch" _IS_ the price as pointed out in the original post. The price/performance and how that ratio can be marketed as a solution is the point I was making, so I think it is on topic.

There's no evidence that this product has a poor performance or support. I, personally don't like Apple's support. What Apple wanted to eval and service my iPod for a battery replacement was more than the value of the device. I replaced the battery myself for < $20. That, IMO is a ripoff and NOT good customer service.

I did read what you wrote, but didn't dig into Xiaomi as I was just pointing out one device. The retail price point (given the specs) seems to break most any others that I've seen. Maybe others match that price/spec point, but that doesn't detract from the point that Apple is FAR from that price/spec point... and that was my point.

I didn't intend this to be a complete compare of all the products, just one was needed to make the point that for the same price range as an MP3 player from Apple, you can get a well spec'd complete phone. Apple didn't even bother to bring the iPT up to current sizes, add iBeacon or Apple Pay. That's the point, the iPT is overpriced and under spec'd to the market.

The talk about economics is about the global affordability of the product line. I can't see much reason for anyone in a poorer country to buy an iPT over this full spec'd phone.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Part of the "better solution than an iPod Touch" _IS_ the price as pointed out in the original post. The price/performance and how that ratio can be marketed as a solution is the point I was making, so I think it is on topic.

There's no evidence that this product has a poor performance or support. I, personally don't like Apple's support. What Apple wanted to eval and service my iPod for a battery replacement was more than the value of the device. I replaced the battery myself for < $20. That, IMO is a ripoff and NOT good customer service.

I did read what you wrote, but didn't dig into Xiaomi as I was just pointing out one device. The retail price point (given the specs) seems to break most any others that I've seen. Maybe others match that price/spec point, but that doesn't detract from the point that Apple is FAR from that price/spec point... and that was my point.

I didn't intend this to be a complete compare of all the products, just one was needed to make the point that for the same price range as an MP3 player from Apple, you can get a well spec'd complete phone. Apple didn't even bother to bring the iPT up to current sizes, add iBeacon or Apple Pay. That's the point, the iPT is overpriced and under spec'd to the market.

The talk about economics is about the global affordability of the product line. I can't see much reason for anyone in a poorer country to buy an iPT over this full spec'd phone.

But there will always be a 'cheaper' alternative for almost everything, if you look hard enough.

Cheaper doesn't mean better. I'd like to see someone try to win the Tour de France on a Huffy...

 

[1458279]

But there will always be a 'cheaper' alternative for almost everything, if you look hard enough.

Cheaper doesn't mean better. I'd like to see someone try to win the Tour de France on a Huffy...

Better doesn't do much good if you can't afford it. A Bentley is 'better' than most cars, but that doesn't do a poor person a bit of good.
Apple appeals to a certain crowd and that's fine for as long as they can make it work. But most of the world will never own one.

Not everyone will win the Tour de France, most use a bike to get around or exercise. If a $100 bike can do the job, why pay $1,000 for a 'better' one that you might not need?

Given the nature of the product, it devalues quickly. The 1st iPads are worthless now. Once a new standard comes out, the value drops.

In addition, what exactly is 'better' about the iPT vs this phone?

The iPT has less ram, smaller, no phone, no Apple Pay and costs more. What's 'better' about that?

 

[Pakaku]

I enjoyed that website's engrish.

The phone looks unremarkable, though. Just another uninspired iPhone knockoff.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Better doesn't do much good if you can't afford it. A Bentley is 'better' than most cars, but that doesn't do a poor person a bit of good.
Apple appeals to a certain crowd and that's fine for as long as they can make it work. But most of the world will never own one.

Not everyone will win the Tour de France, most use a bike to get around or exercise. If a $100 bike can do the job, why pay $1,000 for a 'better' one that you might not need?

Given the nature of the product, it devalues quickly. The 1st iPads are worthless now. Once a new standard comes out, the value drops.

In addition, what exactly is 'better' about the iPT vs this phone?

The iPT has less ram, smaller, no phone, no Apple Pay and costs more. What's 'better' about that?

But cheap, often ends up just being 'cheap'.

I paid over 3K for 'a bike'. Yes I did. (Note: It's actually easier to spend a lot more than a little less) The bike is just so 'Oh yeah baby!!!' that it makes me want to ride it more. It works smoother, it rides smoother, it shifts smoother, and I ride more, and faster with it.

Sure, I could have bought a 'WalMart Special', and had a bike that weighs 2 to nearly three times more, and rides like a cement mixer, shifts like a 2x4, and I really doubt that I'd want to ride it at all...

The thing is, about this 'free market', there are different solutions for every budget and personality. Don't like the Touch? Get a Sandisk, or a used Zune, or a Sony 'thing'. OR use your iPhone, or iPad, or droid thing... Do without. Get a shuffle, a nano, whatever...

The one thing that always is the hardest thing to knock is the interoperablity of the Apple devices (when it all works)...

But, hey, glad for you. Rock your cheap phone. Enjoy your cheap phone. Happy for you I am. Be glad there are options, because for many things, there are no options...

As far as crowds, I remember a frustrated guy in an electronics store I worked at. He was pissed because the cheap MP3 player he bought was a POS. 'It doesn't work well' he whined. 'It's too hard to get music on it. I can't figure out how to play random songs, the sound sucks.' Whine whine whine. I suggested an iPod. 'NOPE! Ain't going to have any of that commie hippy junk in my house!' be practically bellowed' 'And besides, they are going out of business soon. I read it on the internet!' *SIGH*

 

[1458279]

Misses the point of bang for the buck. You compared a "WalMart Special" to a 3K bike.

What I'm saying is that the "3K bike" doesn't have the same offerings as the "WalMart Special"

In this case:
The "WalMart Special" has
More memory
Larger display
More cores in the CPU
More storage
An actual phone

The "3K bike" has
Less memory
Smaller display
Less storage options
Slower CPU
No phone

As to the quality comparison, someone pointed out that the cost of an iPhone is about $200. So that means that I can have an iPhone made for $200 and sell it for $250 and it would be exactly the same thing.

You're assuming that this product is "cheap", meaning poor quality. It may or may not be poor quality, but the point is that it COULD be the same quality as an iPT. If an iPhone can be made for $200, maybe a company could use the exact same parts, made by the exact same people and sell it for $250.

There's a reason Apple has so much money. I'm not saying it's either good, bad or deserved. I'm saying that someone could produce the same thing and offer it at much lower price and have the same quality. I don't know if this company has done that, but they could have.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Misses the point of bang for the buck. You compared a "WalMart Special" to a 3K bike.

What I'm saying is that the "3K bike" doesn't have the same offerings as the "WalMart Special"

In this case:
The "WalMart Special" has
More memory
Larger display
More cores in the CPU
More storage
An actual phone

The "3K bike" has
Less memory
Smaller display
Less storage options
Slower CPU
No phone

As to the quality comparison, someone pointed out that the cost of an iPhone is about $200. So that means that I can have an iPhone made for $200 and sell it for $250 and it would be exactly the same thing.

You're assuming that this product is "cheap", meaning poor quality. It may or may not be poor quality, but the point is that it COULD be the same quality as an iPT. If an iPhone can be made for $200, maybe a company could use the exact same parts, made by the exact same people and sell it for $250.

There's a reason Apple has so much money. I'm not saying it's either good, bad or deserved. I'm saying that someone could produce the same thing and offer it at much lower price and have the same quality. I don't know if this company has done that, but they could have.

OK, I hesitate to continue this, but for the 'perceived value' of any product, I look at more than just the price of the device.

I value the ancillary software of the Apple 'eco-system', and that support is really hard to put a value on. Is it a really NICE thing to have that support. The ability to have that kind of 'one size fits all' makes the iPhone, the Touch, the Nano, even the lowly Shuffle look pretty darn deluxe...

But anyway... Have fun...

 

[Jessica Lares]

Yeah, this argument could just go on and on and on. You're arguing with people who've already made up their mind and are happy with their purchase.

And honestly, most of us don't care about whether or not this stuff is affordable for everyone. There's so many things in this world we SHOULD have a concern for, and yet we're here talking about how some people can't afford a ****ing iPod Touch and all the other tech things a lot of us do have the privilege of being able to afford. Come on, you're talking about a company who participates in World AIDS Day, takes donates for relief efforts whenever something big happens, among other things.

Another thing - I'd rather support a company who operates in my own country.

 

[1458279]

Yea, I think your right, this won't go anywhere. Some people will overlook markup and employee pay, but it's not like Apple is the only one that does that and they have created a lot of wealth for the investors and created a much better OS than the others. I guess the market will decide over time.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

"...you didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made it. You're here to try to understand *why* you made it. I thought you'd have figured that out by now."​

 

[1458279]

"...you didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made it. You're here to try to understand *why* you made it. I thought you'd have figured that out by now."​

I didn't make the choice to buy this device. I'm use these devices to test apps that I write for them, I actually have 3 iPods myself and use two for testing apps. I haven't purchased an Android test device yet because I haven't needed one yet.
What I was pointing out is that Apple is charging a steep price for their product based on market factors that are not likely to be sustained instead of actual product value.

Apples app ecosystem doesn't support the selling of outdated tech at over inflated prices. Once Android gets it's act together, Apples edge could be gone. Apple did the same thing with the Mac back in the old days and they came within a few months of being bankrupt in spite of being a strong company at the start of the PC era. They are repeating the same thing now.

Apple's handling of the Mac when trying to compete in the PC market nearly cost Apple their business. What they are doing now is the same thing, it just hasn't happened yet, but it must happen because all markets are free markets. Many will not see the point until it's too late.

Me and a group of investors jumped out of the stock market before the DotCom crash based on my call. Many other waited and they paid the price. Many experts did the same thing when the 08 housing market crashed. Only time will tell. The same people that went thru the DotCom crash didn't see the housing bubble and still don't see the bubble we're in now. Maybe that's why history keeps repeating itself, too many just don't see it.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

But if a 'free market' means less competition, how can it be a 'free'?

BTW, I'm typing this on a 6 year old MacBook Pro, running El Capitan, and quite well too, thank you.

Try that on a 6 year old PC notebook running Windows.

Other than that, I can't tell where you are going. Sorry.

 

[1458279]

Free market means that sooner or later Android could see that Apple has better security and AppStore. Just like all those people that play "follow the leader" with all the game clones, so to can Android copy Apple's ecosystem or at least elements of it.

This is pretty much what Apple did with iOS when they went with flat icons after MS had their updating tiles. Sooner or later, they all see who wins and follow those that win. That's part of the nature of the free market, you have to keep improving or you fall behind and lose customers (like black berry)

 

[1961 Scout]

I'm too poor to buy cheap products. You just end up spending more in the long run...

I'll stick with my iPod touch 6.

I could buy a KIA also, it's cheaper than a Jeep...I don't think I'll do that either...

 

[1458279]

I'm too poor to buy cheap products. You just end up spending more in the long run...

I'll stick with my iPod touch 6.

I could buy a KIA also, it's cheaper than a Jeep...I don't think I'll do that either...

You're assuming the product is low quality. Yet the iPhone costs $200 to produce. So if someone was to sell the exact iPhone for $210, would it fall apart sooner than the iPhone selling for $600?

If you think that, I'll buy a product for $100 and sell it to you for $1,000 and say that it'll save you money because it's better.

Did you miss the part where the iPhone actually costs $200? If Apple put the iPhone on sale for 1/2 price, would it break sooner?

 

[Septembersrain]

I used to always love Android phones. I still do like them but I have to modify all of them in order to keep up the current OS.

Add that into the resale value being exceptionally low, I've found it better to buy iPhones.

I still buy Android, WP, and BlackBerry just to experience the differences. However, I've found that iPhone just works for me.

The way the ecosystem functions, it's quite convenient.

Sure, I'll use Android again as a primary device someday. I don't blame anyone who does. Android and iPhone are the best out there in my opinion.

 

[ms_vala]

Finally found you. Miss you dearly ️

 

[Septembersrain]

Finally found you. Miss you dearly ️

Hi. Do I know you from another forum?

 

[Plutonius]

I don't know about IpT, but the Iph has quite the profit margin... for every $600 to $650 iPhone sold, it only costs Apple $200 or so to make.

You are only looking at the cost of the components in the device. There are many other cost included in the price including R&D and both the iPT and iPh have a profit margin between 37-39 %. That means on a $650 iPh, it actually cost Apple $396.50 with a $136.50 profit on each one sold.

 

[XTheLancerX]

You're arguing it's cheaper to buy this device and it has more stuff than the iPod, including phone and texting etc. It really isn't if you want to even consider those as extra features because you have to pay a carrier a ton to even allow the use of them. Shortly, in say a couple months, it would have been cheaper to just buy the iPod.

Now my argument doesn't apply if you just don't get a cell plan for it, but in that case your argument of having more functionality still takes a bit of a hit. It would go back to "do you want android or do you want iOS"

I would pick iOS over android 100 times just because of the ecosystem, and it's just what I'm more familiar with. Also it's easier to get help when you have a problem, and I like iCloud with its nightly backups. Also a fan of how much longer iOS devices last in terms of OS support and resale value. The iPod touch 6 is between the iPhone 5S and iPhone 6 for performance which is still great for today and many years to come! $200 is not bad at all for this device... $300-$400 is quite a bit more but still, considering what you get without any monthly fees following the initial purchase is really good.

 

[Digger148]

I enjoyed that website's engrish.

The phone looks unremarkable, though. Just another uninspired iPhone knockoff.

That's the exact vibe I get from all of this. Pawn shops and "knockoff stores" in my city are loaded with this kind of thing.
Buy at your own risk, I say.

 

[1458279]

You're arguing it's cheaper to buy this device and it has more stuff than the iPod, including phone and texting etc. It really isn't if you want to even consider those as extra features because you have to pay a carrier a ton to even allow the use of them. Shortly, in say a couple months, it would have been cheaper to just buy the iPod.

Now my argument doesn't apply if you just don't get a cell plan for it, but in that case your argument of having more functionality still takes a bit of a hit. It would go back to "do you want android or do you want iOS"

I would pick iOS over android 100 times just because of the ecosystem, and it's just what I'm more familiar with. Also it's easier to get help when you have a problem, and I like iCloud with its nightly backups. Also a fan of how much longer iOS devices last in terms of OS support and resale value. The iPod touch 6 is between the iPhone 5S and iPhone 6 for performance which is still great for today and many years to come! $200 is not bad at all for this device... $300-$400 is quite a bit more but still, considering what you get without any monthly fees following the initial purchase is really good.

So you're comparing a device that doesn't have a phone to one that has a phone? The iPod can never be a true phone, so why would you include the cost of phone service when you compare something that doesn't have a phone?

You assume the ecosystem will never improve? Wasn't one the arguments about Android vs Apple the fact that Apple had all the good apps? Is it the case today that Apple has an exclusive on good apps? Are there popular apps that go Apple only?

IMO, Apple doesn't put out there best in the iPT. It could have all the specs of the iPhone without the phone. They made it yesteryears specs at inflated prices. For that over inflated price, they could have brought it up to full iPhone without the phone specs.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

So you're comparing a device that doesn't have a phone to one that has a phone? The iPod can never be a true phone, so why would you include the cost of phone service when you compare something that doesn't have a phone?

You assume the ecosystem will never improve? Wasn't one the arguments about Android vs Apple the fact that Apple had all the good apps? Is it the case today that Apple has an exclusive on good apps? Are there popular apps that go Apple only?

IMO, Apple doesn't put out there best in the iPT. It could have all the specs of the iPhone without the phone. They made it yesteryears specs at inflated prices. For that over inflated price, they could have brought it up to full iPhone without the phone specs.

So you are comparing a device with an entire and robust ecosystem to a device that is just 'cheaper than an Apple Touch'?

I think you just slaughtered your own argument. It's dead.

For the cost of an iPod, you are paying for a LOT of simplicity, ubiquity, all encompassing 'ecosystem' support...

I can take my iPod Touch, and sync everything, or some of the stuff, or completely different stuff on to it in seconds, or minutes. How long will it take for an 'average' android phone? How long will it take for this 'gem'?

I can have books, games, apps, ring tones, movies, video clips, *everything* on my Touch, in seconds, possibly minutes, and I don't have to 'roll my own' to get it to be something that I'm used to, because the *same* stuff can me synced to my iPad, my iPod, and my iPhone.

So, keep flogging this horse.

But, thanks for being so persistent...

 

[XTheLancerX]

So you're comparing a device that doesn't have a phone to one that has a phone? The iPod can never be a true phone, so why would you include the cost of phone service when you compare something that doesn't have a phone?

You assume the ecosystem will never improve? Wasn't one the arguments about Android vs Apple the fact that Apple had all the good apps? Is it the case today that Apple has an exclusive on good apps? Are there popular apps that go Apple only?

IMO, Apple doesn't put out there best in the iPT. It could have all the specs of the iPhone without the phone. They made it yesteryears specs at inflated prices. For that over inflated price, they could have brought it up to full iPhone without the phone specs.

Yeah I'll give you that the android device *can* be a phone but that ruins your argument of it being cheaper. If you even use that phone it will shortly be more expensive than the iPod touch, thus making the feature pointless considering your whole argument has been cost-based.

Also the iPod Touch 6 with its "measly" dual core chip smashed your phone with the 8 core chip. iPod got 1385 and 2440. The phone you were talking about got 681 and 2242. Specs don't mean much at all, it's the real performance of them that counts. Dual Core > Octa Core in this case. And all 8 of those cores are very very unlikely to all be used, so iPod 6 will probably be faster a lot of the time since it only needs to power up 2 cores for max performance. For the other device to match that performance it will have to use ALL 8 which probably will never happen. Single core is what matters most, because 90% of the time only one core is being used. Single core score for the iPod was double that of the phone you mentioned. So again, it's going to be faster.

And even though one app may be on both platforms, it still will still usually be higher quality on iOS. Not ALL cases, but the majority of them.

 

[1458279]

Most of the argument is based on ecosystem, but the fact is any ecosystem can improve. It shouldn't be that hard for Android to improve it's ecosystem. I haven't used Android, but if the ecosystem is really that bad, it could be improved. It's not like Apple has a patent on good ecosystems.

I have 3 iPods and not one of them have been connected to the ecosystem in over a year. One hasn't been connected in probably 3 years. I load the song or apps, then I'm done, I just use it until I need something else loaded on it, which isn't very often.

I can't imagine that Android's ecosystem is so horrid as to justify that kind of price difference. After all, some people do seem to make it work.

The fact still remains that the iPT has outdated specs compared to other Apple products, yet the price is still 1st rate.