Japan Preparing EU-Style Law to Force Apple to Allow App Sideloading and More

[ryan102]

Apple operates in a worldwide market. Sadly for them, we don't live under 1 Government and so therefore they can't bribe themselves out of all these changes.

They are of course free to restrict US consumers (No Sim slot, return of lightning, no sideloading) as they have Biden in their pocket. For those us who don't live in the US, I doubt the majority would want to return to the Apple walled garden.

The EU & Japan (and others) are now just getting started. Apple's locking down everything over the years is now about to come back and haunt them. I'd imagine we might see Apple suddenly offer to reduce the 30% fee down to single digits but it's too late now, the ball is rolling against them.

 

[AlexESP]

All they would need to do is to put a clause in the warranty stating that if you do xxx then it's invalid - and this is legally binding, just like those legally binding software license agreements that nobody actually reads.

The second part of your comment explains why it’s a bad idea.

 

[koil]

We need to be mindful of the potential of this, with the introduction of the likes of the proposed CBDCs, this has the ability to ensure that freedoms are restricted - spend too much on water, beer, gas, food in a day, and that's it, nothing more for you till tomorrow / next week / year.... say something wrong to someone and you can't spend your hard earn money for a week...

Give a friend $10, and you could be taxed on that, or even buy a friend a beer in the local bar.

The whole thing stinks, and is nothing more than those at the EU/WEF/UN/FED to gain more and more world domination for their families.

The AppStore has been reliable and fine for years - people haven't been complaining from what I can see - so why the sudden desire to change it?

 

[xnsys]

Apple operates in a worldwide market. Sadly for them, we don't live under 1 Government and so therefore they can't bribe themselves out of all these changes.

They are of course free to restrict US consumers (No Sim slot, return of lightning, no sideloading) as they have Biden in their pocket. For those us who don't live in the US, I doubt the majority would want to return to the Apple walled garden.

The EU & Japan (and others) are now just getting started. Apple's locking down everything over the years is now about to come back and haunt them. I'd imagine we might see Apple suddenly offer to reduce the 30% fee down to single digits but it's too late now, the ball is rolling against them.

You say that, but this whole "locking dow"n has prevented a lot of older people from being scammed - and has also provided levels of safeguarding to children.

 

[5232152]

Once again governments thinking that they can tell people and companies what to do, this will not end well, and will not benefit anybody in the long-run.

If you don't like Apple's business model, quite simply - go else where...

As soon as people realize that the government is there to represent the people, not control the people - the world will become a better place...to many in power have the desire for world dominance, at any cost.

From this comment I assume you are American. You are applying American logic to two regions that will set their people before any company. And these regions are beyond fine with that.

 

[Muzzakus]

Imagine the power of a new phone unleashed. Not dissimilar to putting homebrew on a video game console.

Magic will happen.

 

[xnsys]

From this comment I assume you are American. You are applying American logic to two regions that will set their people before any company. And these regions are beyond fine with that.

I see the people before the companies - I also know what the EU's roadmap is, same as Japan - don't look at the here and now, look at the future and the potential all this will have.

The UN have been warning us for years over their plans, just like the open southern border of the US, and like the current situation in the EU - https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/412547

The 20th March 2000 "Replacement Migration" document states their plans all along - backed by the WEF, who are welcoming it.

The same will happen here - this is a step in the direction of ensuring tracking and control of the people will become a realty.

 

[AlexESP]

From this comment I assume you are American. You are applying American logic to two regions that will set their people before any company. And these regions are beyond fine with that.

Logic doesn’t have nationality. “People” have different opinions, you cannot put “people” before companies. Ah, and companies are also people!

 

[ryan102]

You say that, but this whole "locking dow"n has prevented a lot of older people from being scammed - and has also provided levels of safeguarding to children.

I do partly agree with you. We've managed to avoid virus's and whatnot and there's no reason why that can't continue. Any additional App stores may open but I'd imagine Apple will have the freedom to control what system services they can access. For example, FaceID info.

However the Safeguarding of Children can be looked at 2 ways. Yes there's parental controls to limit what a child can access. Alternatively, with the way Apple treats privacy, a child can be subject to images via iMessage/Facetime or be kidnapped and Apple plays the 'we can't access the data or location information' card therefore putting children at a much higher risk certain & people would also know this.

So far countries haven't gone after the Privacy side of Apple's system but It's coming. It will take 1 major terrorist attack or high profile incident where Apple refuses to unlock an Apple device and that will then lay the ground work.

 

[xnsys]

I do partly agree with you. We've managed to avoid virus's and whatnot and there's no reason why that can't continue. Any additional App stores may open but I'd imagine Apple will have the freedom to control what system services they can access. For example, FaceID info.

However the Safeguarding of Children can be looked at 2 ways. Yes there's parental controls to limit what a child can access. Alternatively, with the way Apple treats privacy, a child can be subject to images via iMessage/Facetime or be kidnapped and Apple plays the 'we can't access the data or location information' card therefore putting children at a much higher risk certain people would also know this.

So far countries haven't gone after the Privacy side of Apple's system but It's coming. It will take 1 major terrorist attack or high profile incident where Apple refuses to unlock an Apple device and that will then lay the ground work.

Many of the games that children use quite often try to take them to download another app - this could now be a side loaded app with a lot of nasties in it.

Apple will do what they can to ensure that the devices function well, but it will be a struggle to ensure the continued level of safety that we currently enjoy.

I believe that the UK has had some issues with iCloud+ Relay, and the EU with iMessage as I recall some of the ISPs being asked by the EU/WEF/UK to block access to iCloud+ Relay - sure I read something on here about it all and responded.


EDIT: Found it - Found it - https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...vate-relay-in-complaint-to-regulator.2337765/

 

[RemedyRabbit]

who knows what will happen if anonymous apps are allowed to be deployed

It’ll be absolutely fine. For reference see every mac and pc ever, where you have always been able to install whatever you like and yet the sky hasn’t fallen down.

 

[mattoruu]

Edit: Never mind. I just realized that I don’t actually want to engage in this (similar) discussion once more. It’s the same thing over and over again, lol. 😂

(I would delete my reply completely, but I don’t think that’s an option.)

 

[Sorinut]

No problem with side loading but it should void any reliance of Apple to fix it when something goes wrong. And it will.

If I put aftermarket parts on my car it doesn't invalidate the factory warranty, unless the manufacturer can prove that said part damaged the vehicle. The onus is them, not the owner. I'm fine with not offering tech support, but the warranty shouldn't be touched.

Same should go for everything, iPhones included.

 

[AlexESP]

Some people like closed ecosystems, some like open ones. Some think sideloading would hurt customers, some think it would help them. It’s okey, we all have different opinions and we like to discuss about them. What is not okey is that one side wants to force the other to operate the way they want.

Apple is on the first side. If a large amount of people agree with their vision, they’ll earn the prize. If people are overwhelmingly against it, they will be punished. We don’t need that any government shuffles all the incentive system to solve this question.

 

[ryan102]

Many of the games that children use quite often try to take them to download another app - this could now be a side loaded app with a lot of nasties in it.

To be honest, we got a little while to go until Sideloading becomes a thing and we don't know how it's going to work yet. I doubt very much it's going to be a case of Download what you want from DateX.

We don't work for Governments but they have a responsibility to keep people safe particularly children. No reason why turning on Safeguarding on an iPad wouldn't automatically disable Sideloading, problem solved.

 

[xnsys]

It’ll be absolutely fine. For reference see every mac and pc ever, where you have always been able to install whatever you like and yet the sky hasn’t fallen down.

That is just a hunch, I would like to think that it will always be fine - but in my cynical old age I have come to see that anything the governments enforce companies to do, only leads to more and more tracking and control of the people.

The OS on the Mac is a lot different to iOS/iPad OS - in theory there may not be the granular security control in place on the iXX OS's because it's all done through vetting the apps before they get published on the App Store.

We can only but guess what it will be like, but from what I've witnessed on Android, and the debacle over there with Apps being able to do as they please - I can't see anything beneficial from allowing side loading of apps.

If I put aftermarket parts on my car it doesn't invalidate the factory warranty, unless the manufacturer can prove that said part damaged the vehicle. The onus is them, not the owner. I'm fine with not offering tech support, but the warranty shouldn't be touched.

Same should go for everything, iPhones included.

They may still offer the warranty, but not device support.

 

[steve09090]

But why? What would be the difference between side loading on the iPhone and side loading on the Mac? Why should it void the warranty on the iPhone, but not void the warranty on the Mac?

Either way, if passed, the law would almost certainly make it so side loading wouldn’t void a warranty.

There are a lot of precedence set in the past for making alterations to devices, be it hardware or software. For example, Sony famously lost the ability to stop people 'chipping' the early PlayStations and blocking 3rd party mods. However they were never forced to fix them once this was done.

Apple are not required to fix a phone that has been jailbroken. And why should they?

And to directly counter your point on Not voiding warranty on the Mac. If you brick a Mac by putting software, not from the Mac store they will certainly not replace or fix it.

 

[steve09090]

If I put aftermarket parts on my car it doesn't invalidate the factory warranty, unless the manufacturer can prove that said part damaged the vehicle. The onus is them, not the owner. I'm fine with not offering tech support, but the warranty shouldn't be touched.

Same should go for everything, iPhones included.

I’m not talking about putting an exhaust extension on, but if you replaced the injectors with something else, or used U91 petrol instead of U98 (or whatever you have, wherever you are) then absolutely you will lose warranty. Ask Jeep about this who are notorious at not offering warranty.

 

[Skyscraperfan]

All they would need to do is to put a clause in the warranty stating that if you do xxx then it's invalid - and this is legally binding, just like those legally binding software license agreements that nobody actually reads.

No, that is not how it works here in Germany and probably not in the rest of the EU either. Companies have tried that before like in the example of the RAM modules. Those were not soldered RAM modules, just normal RAM modules you can buy in every computer store. If you opened the back of the notebook, clicked the new RAM modules into place and closed the notebook again, some companies no longer honored the warranty.

A clause that violates the law is not legally binding. Such a clause will be treated as if it does not exist.

Microsoft tried to stop people from reselling Windows if they no longer needed it. They had clauses in their licenses agreement. They even had "OEM versions". Those versions came with a new computer and they were only valid for that computer. Even changing the main board or the hard disk made in invalid. That goes against consumer laws in the EU though, even if that is written in the license agreement.

Imagine all stuff in the license agreement was binding. Then a company could write "With activation of this software, you transfer the ownership of your car and your house to us" in the license agreement.

The EU also made license agreements invalid if they are too long. That was a trick companies used in the past: Make the agreement 200 pages long, so nobody will have the time to read it. That is no longer possible. I do not now the exact maximum length though.

Also all "essential" points must be highlighted and can't be "hidden" somewhere deep in the agreement.

 

[JosephAW]

I just hope they enable this for older iOS devices that way they can get the latest and greatest browser without using WebKit.

 

[GoofyCyborg]

Side-loading is no more a risk than installing third party software on a MAC. I have side-loaded apps on android devices for many years and never had a device fail as a result.

 

[Sorinut]

I’m not talking about putting an exhaust extension on, but if you replaced the injectors with something else, or used U91 petrol instead of U98 (or whatever you have, wherever you are) then absolutely you will lose warranty. Ask Jeep about this who are notorious at not offering warranty.

Then someone needs to sue Jeep, because it's absolutely legal to change any part you want on a vehicle without affecting the warranty. I was a mechanic for several years in college, and managed an auto shop during grad school..

Running the wrong fuel can invalidate the warranty, same as adding the wrong weight of oil, or putting diesel in the gas tank, but I can change alternators, injectors, spark plugs, anything I want, with any brand I want, and the warranty is intact. They wont warranty the 3rd party part, nor should they, but they can't invalidate the entire vehicle warranty unless that part damaged the vehicle, and it can be proven.

I've done such things on my VWs more than once, with no issue, and no problem with warranty work.

 

[steve09090]

Then someone needs to sue Jeep, because it's absolutely legal to change any part you want on a vehicle without affecting the warranty. I was a mechanic for several years in college, and managed an auto shop during grad school..

Running the wrong fuel can invalidate the warranty, same as adding the wrong weight of oil, or putting diesel in the gas tank, but I can change alternators, injectors, spark plugs, anything I want, with any brand I want, and the warranty is intact.

I've done such things on my VWs more than once, with no issue, and no problem with warranty work

And if you used a side loaded software in the operating system if one was available, that would be okay? Genuine question.

 

[H2SO4]

As a lifetime Android user, I'm somewhat baffled by these mandates.
I've always voted with my wallet, but never thought that Apple had to be forced to add missing features to iOS.

I'd suggest that you think, you've always voted with your wallet. There are lots of things that happen behind the scenes that your wallet never actually gets to finds out about and if it did might change its view. I suppose it's a bit like the religious free will thing.
Lots of things that we as consumers could have had input in and chose not to.
The powers that be are here to take care of those, I only wish they'd do a little more open and honest consultation though.

 

[Sorinut]

And if you used a side loaded software in the operating system if one was available, that would be okay? Genuine question.

I don't think Apple should provide tech support, but the hardware warranty shouldn't be affected. I have no problem with letting the end-user decide.

I've been using Apple products since 2003ish, and I've never once contacted Apple tech support, but I've had things replaced under warranty, so I personally wouldn't care.