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Zest28

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Jul 11, 2022
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What an amazing leap you’re making from next to no evidence just to try to prove some kind of point that is frankly non existent.

Wouldn’t it be much more reasonable to assume people bought the Air over another machine due to how small and light it is? I would, and as a Professional photographer power is very important. But I have my desktop, so the air would be a fine compliment over the bulkier, heavier with only minor performance improved mbp.

The m2 mbp is an oddity in the mb line up. The airs are close to as performant, whilst being considerably lighter and more portable. People who want power in a laptop wouldn’t find enough power in the machine. It seems quite redundant.

The MBA is small and light? I have hold the 14” MBP and 13” M2 MBA in both my hands and I couldn’t tell the difference in weight between the two.

So it would be even harder to tell the difference with the 13” M2 MBP vs 13” M2 MBA, which is only 160 grams.

If the MBA is considered “light”, then so are the 13” MBP and 14” MBP.

People really like to exagerate how light the MBA is.
 
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Zest28

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Jul 11, 2022
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You can’t say something is not true when anyone with eyes and a brain can confirm it.

You can throttle an RTX 3090 if you run a game at 8K with max settings and no DSLR.

You can throttle any device if the workload is intense enough.

And that is a fact.

You have to choose the right settings and the right workload for every type of computer you use if you want to minimize throttling.

If you are playing an intense game on an Air or a Pro, you adjust the settings to minimize throttling and maintain consistent performance.

If you are rending 4K or 8K video/CGI on an Air, you chose the wrong device.

If you are rending 4K or 8K video/CGI on an 16“ MBP, you might experience throttling.

If you are rending 4K or 8K video/CGI on a Mac Studio Ultra, you still might experience throttling but less than the laptops.

Do you even own a 16” M1 Max MacBook Pro?

If so, run WoW and max out all settings at the maximum resolution and you will see no thermal throttling happens as the FPS won’t dip over time.
 
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unrigestered

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1. use it at ambient temperatures of ~40C (104F)
2. put it on a deep blanket
3. start Cinebench

... are good preconditions for such a test (best done if all of these three criteria are met), though durig recharging from a pretty much empty battery or operation in direct sunlight on a hot summer day could do the trick too.
 

Bug-Creator

macrumors 68000
May 30, 2011
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Worst take ever (well at least pretty high up on the list).

And you can easily twist it around, the MBnonPro design dates back to Jony being involved, the M2Air not, hence:

"Jony Ives designs suck donkey b####" !!!!!!
 

Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
6,146
7,001
Ive was right in as much as design is the first and only thing many will see when purchasing a Mac. So many people don't care about specs at all, as long as they've got enough power to do what they need to (which often requires very little computing power indeed). The problem is applying this principle to the line of computers that is meant to be for those who do need more computing power (MacBook Pro) solely because you can make more money by selling everyone a Pro model, rather than Pros to those who need them and Airs to those who don't. Either way glad to see Apple seems to be back on track with the new performance optimised Pros and thin and light Air. Roll on the 15" Air to round out a near perfect lineup!
 
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LeeW

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Feb 5, 2017
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Play WoW and you will see it thermal throttle. It is pretty easy to thermal throttle these machines.

It's the only game I play and have played since about 2008. I did install it on my new M2 MBA but only out of interest to see how it would play, I wouldn't use it as a gaming device as I have a PC for that.

To be fair I left it installed, works perfectly, fine at high settings with no issues. It gets warm but not hot after an hour or so. It probably did throttle but I didn't actually check that fact as I didn't need to given it played just fine.

If you are upset because a fanless device throttles when playing something like WoW then I don't think you really get it.
 

Zest28

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Jul 11, 2022
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It's the only game I play and have played since about 2008. I did install it on my new M2 MBA but only out of interest to see how it would play, I wouldn't use it as a gaming device as I have a PC for that.

To be fair I left it installed, works perfectly, fine at high settings with no issues. It gets warm but not hot after an hour or so. It probably did throttle but I didn't actually check that fact as I didn't need to given it played just fine.

If you are upset because a fanless device throttles when playing something like WoW then I don't think you really get it.

I am not upset.

I am just saying Apple made a mistake getting rid of Jony Ive.

Design is very important with Apple devices and he was the best at it.

The 13” M2 MBP vs 13” M2 MBA is clear example of it as it is about design vs performance + battery life (as they weigh the same really).
 
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ponzicoinbro

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Aug 5, 2021
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Do you even own a 16” M1 Max MacBook Pro?

If so, run WoW and max out all settings at the maximum resolution and you will see no thermal throttling happens as the FPS won’t dip over time.

They were talking about the M2 14” Air and M2 13” Pro not the 16”. Scroll up.

They were talking about games in general and not just WoW.

But sure, if the graphics were advanced enough in WoW or any game you could use very high settings and throttle any top 15 and 16 inch laptop too.

If the graphics are advanced enough and the settings high enough you can throttle any computer.

I cannot even believe this needs to be said in 2022 when we knew this in 2005.
 

Zest28

macrumors 68030
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Jul 11, 2022
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They were talking about the M2 14” Air and M2 13” Pro not the 16”. Scroll up.

They were talking about games in general and not just WoW.

But sure, if the graphics were advanced enough in WoW or any game you could use very high settings and throttle any top 15 and 16 inch laptop too.

If the graphics are advanced enough and the settings high enough you can throttle any computer.

I cannot even believe this needs to be said in 2022 when we knew this in 2005.

You were suggesting the 16” might throttle and there is simply no evidence for it.

It literally runs WoW at max settings at max resolution without the fps dropping.

This is also backed up by synthetic benchmarks (such as done by Max Tech), where it is the 14” (32-core GPU) M1 Max that thermal throttles, but not the 16” MBP.
 
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exoticSpice

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You were suggesting the 16” might throttle and there is simply no evidence for it.

It literally runs WoW at max settings at max resolution without the fps dropping.

This is also backed up by synthetic benchmarks, where it is the 14” (32-core GPU) M1 Max that thermal throttles, but not the 16” MBP.
Yeah but some prefer a fanless design. The M1 Air was also fanless and that was made by Jonny Ive.
 

Zest28

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Jul 11, 2022
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Yeah but some prefer a fanless design. The M1 Air was also fanless and that was made by Jonny Ive.

That is a fair point. A fanless design is better on the bed for example, so dust will not go into the machine and clog up the cooling system.

But I do believe people buy the MBA for it’s design.
 
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hans1972

macrumors 68040
Apr 5, 2010
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If Apple customers care more about design rather than how a machine performs (including battery life), which you clearly see by the sales of the 13" M2 MBP vs the 13" M2 MBA, then Jony Ive is your man.

Apple made a mistake getting rid of Jony Ive clearly.

We care about silence, weight and footprint. And also how it looks and is designed.

What we don't care about is CPU and GPU performance and certainly not sustained performance.

I still have a 12" MacBook from 2015 and its CPU and GPU is enough for my professional needs.
 

unrigestered

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i bought it (M1 MBA in my case) for it's portability (and yes, having no fan is helping it greatly as far as i'm concerned), awesome battery life as my secondary, actual daily driver machine.
oh and yes, it was much cheaper than the 13" Pro, which actually doesn't even add anything worthwile for me. even the speed difference is minimal to non existent in most scenarios

my "desktop" workhorse is a 16" MBP though
 
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Zest28

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Jul 11, 2022
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i bought it (M1 MBA in my case) for it's portability (and yes, having no fan is helping it greatly as far as i'm concerned), awesome battery life as my secondary, actual daily driver machine.
oh and yes, it was much cheaper than even the 13" Pro, which actually doesn't even add anything worthwile for me. even the speed difference is minimal to non existent in most scenarios

my "desktop" workhorse is a 16" MBP though

Makes sense. The M1 MBA was significantly cheaper than the 13” M1 MBP when you spec’ed them out the same. So there was also a cost component involved rather than design.

But this year we get to see how important design actually is.
 
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MajorFubar

macrumors 68020
Oct 27, 2021
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I am just saying Apple made a mistake getting rid of Jony Ive.
Pretty sure their design team is exactly that, a team, and no one person designed everything. That said if he was entirely responsible for signing-off their array of nice looking underperforming Macbooks with faulty displays, crap keyboards and one type of port which spent most of its life with a dongle hanging out of it so you could connect your expensive 'Pro' computer to the real world, I'm happy to see him gone. Not that he will give a jot what I think.
 

AbhiAchShan

macrumors member
Nov 7, 2021
87
60
I have noticed the following:
- 13” M2 MBP, will be delivered next day
- 13” M2 MBA will be delivered in 2 weeks.

And both devices cost the same when configured with the same specs.

So the Apple customer prefers a thermal throttling, slightly thinner machine with worse battery life over a machine that weighs only 160 grams more while having none of those issues and superior battery life.

That is exactly what the MBP has been with Jony his obession with thinnes rather than designing a proper chassis that could handle the Intel chips.

Bring back Jony!!!
One of the Cringest Forums of the Year
 

stevemiller

macrumors 68020
Oct 27, 2008
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i try to avoid cult of personality too much, and just judge the products on their own merit. industrial design has always been part of the appeal with apple purchases. but also there have always also been instances where design choices felt quationable, and a few times were it crossed into making me reconsider the purchases.

the late stage intel machines fell into that category for me. the 2018 macbook pro i had always felt like it was struggling performance wise, it crashed with T2 'bridgeOS' errors almost daily at times. the keyboard failed. the touchbar would glitch out. in short, it looked nice, but it bordered on unusable.

the new chonkier apple silicon macs with m1 pro / m1 max chips have addressed almost all of my grievances. and orders are backlogged on them as well. so it seems a little weird to draw the sweeping conclusion that the OP has from the M2 air backorders argument.
 

cupcakes2000

macrumors 601
Apr 13, 2010
4,037
5,426
The MBA is small and light? I have hold the 14” MBP and 13” M2 MBA in both my hands and I couldn’t tell the difference in weight between the two.

So it would be even harder to tell the difference with the 13” M2 MBP vs 13” M2 MBA, which is only 160 grams.

If the MBA is considered “light”, then so are the 13” MBP and 14” MBP.

People really like to exagerate how light the MBA is.
Yes. It’s smaller and lighter than the mbp. It’s a fact and irrelevant as to whether it’s only this much or that much, or ‘you can’t tell the difference’. Your opinion on the matter doesn’t change the fact that the mba is smaller and lighter than the mbp.
 

spiderman0616

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Aug 1, 2010
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If Apple customers care more about design rather than how a machine performs (including battery life), which you clearly see by the sales of the 13" M2 MBP vs the 13" M2 MBA, then Jony Ive is your man.

Apple made a mistake getting rid of Jony Ive clearly.
Jony Ive's designs were one of the biggest problems with MacBooks for YEARS. They bred the butterfly keyboards and chassis that turn into hot plates. The other half of the problem was Intel. Ive leaving is the best thing that could have possibly happened to the Mac.

Steve Jobs once said that death is "life's great change agent". There was not a death here, but there was an end of an era at Apple and it was SORELY needed in the Mac department.
 

AbhiAchShan

macrumors member
Nov 7, 2021
87
60
It does seem plausible people prefer the new MBA. But that doesn't mean they're embracing Ive's design ethos. The 13" MBP, with its Touchbar, lack of Magsafe, and tapered case edges, was designed under Ive, while the new MBA rejects all of those design elements. So the only thing you're left with is people preferring a newer design with a smaller form factor, at the expense of some throttling under sustained all-core load. Since most MBA purchasers don't put their computers through the latter, that makes sense.

But that doesn't mean that Mac purchasers generally are willing to give up performance for form factor. Most buyers of the prosumer AS machines (the 14" and 16" MBP's, and the Mac Studio), are happy with their anti-Ive emphasis on function over form.

In summary, I'd say Ive, even with his missteps (like the Butterfly Keyboard) was brilliant at designing the entry-level consumer machines, but his form-over-function emphasis worked poorly when applied to Apple's prosumer devices—and that most buyers of that level of machine are breathing a sigh of relief at his departure.
So butterfly keyboard was not an engineering disaster, but rather a Design Disaster? What?
Let the forum Blame Jony as much as you want, but the thing is quite a few may have some real thoughts to process, blaming a designer for all failures than engineers, designs are quite tested and ratified by the product management team, so if the PMT found those 2016 devices to be good, well, then, blame actual engineers, designs are tested and if they don't work well, the designs are reviewed, had Jony had obsession of thinness, we wouldn't have seen thicker iPhones since iPhone 8, a larger, quite modular Mac Pro 2019, and also thicker MBP like the ones in 2019 Oct, whose designs as per rumours were confirmed by 2019 Q1, and lastly many say that performance and function over form has increased since Jony left, well I am pretty sure those who bought the Mac Studios are happy with chips than ports, under Jony too we had return of ports on the Mac Pros, and yes Apple still has obsession of thinness, without Jony, the new MacBook Air for Example, without Fan is the thinnest Mac Ever made
Even during Steve era too, we had obsession of thinness, with most products being thinner than their predecessors and also with repetitive mentioning of how thinner the device has become to its predecessor. So that all being said, lastly I just want to say, let us not blame Jony for all such mistakes and blame the actual guys, and I am sure, we all may realise at one point or another that Jony was quite important for what Apple stood for, we are now seeing the loss of design at Apple, which is quite fundamental to Apple
 
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Zest28

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Yes. It’s smaller and lighter than the mbp. It’s a fact and irrelevant as to whether it’s only this much or that much, or ‘you can’t tell the difference’. Your opinion on the matter doesn’t change the fact that the mba is smaller and lighter than the mbp.

It's lighter on paper. Any healthy adult will struggle to tell the weight difference between the 14" MBP and the 13" MBA.

Now I am sure there are people who will be able to find significant weight difference between the 14" MBP and 13" MBA, but they have other issues clearly.
 

dmr727

macrumors G4
Dec 29, 2007
10,667
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Yes. It’s smaller and lighter than the mbp. It’s a fact and irrelevant as to whether it’s only this much or that much, or ‘you can’t tell the difference’. Your opinion on the matter doesn’t change the fact that the mba is smaller and lighter than the mbp.

Yep. I travel for work and there's a noticeable difference between my MBA and the 13" MBP that it replaced. It's the reason I chose the MBA over the 14" Pro, and I don't regret the decision at all.
 
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