Kinda doubt about Vision Pros' future.

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

First iteration of AVP is enough of an iPad/MacBook that has a far bigger “display” and lets you use it without touching or typing on anything even if it’s really flawed right now and lacks support for most great apps.

But regardless, consumers want something that lets them do what they’d otherwise do on an iPad/iPhone/MacBook but anywhere, with a much bigger display, and without the need for a mouse or keyboard.

iPad is just a bigger iPhone that Apple artificially doesn’t let you use for cellphone calls but lets you use with Apple Pencil.

But once you take out Apple’s product segmentation efforts, it’s still just a big iPhone. There are no unique features or a killer app apart from all of the ones you couldn’t use well on iPhone because Apple artificially bars iPhone from Pencil.

And yet, iPads have been a huge success. Best selling and most recognizable tablet computer device on the market.

AVP doesn’t need to be more than iPhone/iPad with a dash of MacOS that you can operate with nothing more than your eyes and fingers, and something that fits inside a pair of VR goggles.

As it comes down in size and battery life goes up, it will cannibalize sales of several millions of iPads and MacBooks annually.

If hundreds of millions are buying 8"-13"-ish simcard-less iPhones (iPad) just to be able to use their media content and apps on a bigger display(and a minority to draw using a premium, over-priced stylus (Apple Pencil)), then I'm close to 100% sure there's a huge market to have portable "4K" "displays" show all their iPhone, iPad, Mac content inside a comparatively portable hub-device that you can setup and use almost anywhere.

*Not saying this first iteration achieves this goal. It's too clunky, not optimized well enough, and not enough support from third-parties. But AVP will(!) replace iPads at the very least. It's just a matter of time as size and price comes down, support and usability gets improved.

 

[zakarhino]

Why such negativity? I just don’t understand it.

Why such positivity? I just don't understand it.

See if someone posted that everyone would think it's strange. Why? Why is the expectation praise and not critique? It's a forum, we all want to hear different opinions and thoughts. I'm not here to hear endless praise and positivity. If that's your expectation don't click on threads which are clearly not to your taste, respectfully.

 

[zakarhino]

Your insistence on referring to Vision Pro as AR/VR/MR then applying your personal assessment of AR/VR/MR to Vision Pro is telling. The device creator (Apple) refers to Vision Pro as a Spatial Computing device (a new product category), explained what Spatial Computing is and how it is different from AR/VR/MR, and deliberately avoids the term AR/VR/MR because it is an incorrect categorization of the device. Is it that hard to approach this new device with an open mind and respect for the vision and life energies of its creators?

lol it's marketing, nobody actually thinks Apple's "Spatial Computing" terminology is a new type of product except for those living under a rock that have never been exposed to AR/VR/MR. There is nothing that distinguishes Vision Pro/"Spatial Computing" as a brand new paradigm separate from existing AR/VR/MR devices. It's the same thing, just different hardware and software decisions than Valve Index, Meta Quest, etc.

There hasn't even been a single instance of Apple explicitly explaining how it's different from AR/VR/MR, you're gaslighting yourself. What Apple did is avoid directly comparing their product to existing products from competitors because that would violate their own marketing attempt to distinguish themselves as "the first Spatial Computer." You fell for it (NOT, since I refuse to believe this isn't a troll post).

If Meta unveiled the Quest 4 as a "Hypercomputer" are we supposed to pretend like it's some brand new category of product?

 

[gerald.d]

Why such negativity? I just don’t understand it.

Me neither. It really is a complete mystery.

 

[0s and 1s]

I stopped reading after your first paragraph, OP. I don’t think you have an understanding of where this is going.

This is only scratching the surface. Let us enjoy the experience while you sit on the sidelines.

 

[Klae17]

You say that but don’t forget that both Google and Samsung entered and exited the VR market SEVERAL years ago. Go ahead and revisit this thread years down the line and see what a true failure AVP is. Have you even done research on XReal Air Pro 2? Lightweight glasses form factor that offers TRUE AR and the ability to dim the lenses from clear to dark “sunglasses”. And yet you have this idea that AVP in 5 to 10 years will be so advanced that you come back to this thread?

We are speaking about Apple and its road map. Mentioning other companies and their failures doesn’t help your case. Apple has repeatedly proved themselves by taking over entire industries. I bet they know more than you.

 

[boss.king]

You, in 2007:
Because that’s the reality of the smartphone consumer market. Literally none of them ever succeed so I see negatives perspective especially since iPhones lack some features that smartphones have such as a hardware keyboard and App Store.

BlackBerry was pretty successful in 2007. We have yet to see a successful VR platform. People need to stop pretending that this is anything like the iPhone launch.

 

[G5isAlive]

The problem is that AR/VR/MR markets are still niche and failed several times. They are more optimized for B2B, not B2C. Unlike other categories, it has been proven to be a failure which is a huge concern. As of today, most of people are not convinced to use AR/VR/MR devices.

You’re repeating yourself. You’ve got one major point. The market has already failed for VR. True, history has not been kind. Another perspective is that history shows a lot of interest in this area, a lot of people keep trying, but the right combination of capability and features has not been found. The Wright brothers were not the first to try heavier than air flight. Plenty of failed previous attempts often resulting in death. The Wright brothers were just the first to succeed. Does Apple have the answers? Only time will tell. I’m not betting against them. History tells me someone will eventually succeed.

 

[Ghost31]

BlackBerry was pretty successful in 2007. We have yet to see a successful VR platform. People need to stop pretending that this is anything like the iPhone launch.

People use the iPhone to justify everything Apple does assuming success. I remember people bringing up the iPhone when I didn’t think HomePod would be a giant success. “But iPhone! They can’t do any wrong”.

Same for AirPods Max that hasn’t been updated in 4 years. I wouldn’t be surprised if vision occupies the same space as HomePod for awhile. Something people think is kinda neat but mostly don’t buy

 

[G5isAlive]

People use the iPhone to justify everything Apple does assuming success. I remember people bringing up the iPhone when I didn’t think HomePod would be a giant success. “But iPhone! They can’t do any wrong”.

Same for AirPods Max that hasn’t been updated in 4 years. I wouldn’t be surprised if vision occupies the same space as HomePod for awhile. Something people think is kinda neat but mostly don’t buy

Problem with your analogy is the HomePod market didn’t fail with the discontinuation of v1. The next iteration, the HomePod mini is doing well. We all know AVP is V1 and just the first step. Apple is betting on the next iteration, the AV. Meanwhile some of us are fine enjoying the AVP for what it is.

 

[kimjongbill]

Wrong perspective. AR/VR/MR markets already failed several times unlike iPhone as it grew up continuously since 2007.

Probably because it was either for gaming or ~metaverse~ stuff, so most people have no need or desire for it. The Vision Pro is more like an extension of the iPhone on your face, while also being a whole ass computer. While your average mom would have no need for a Meta Quest, I’m sure they desire the Vision Pro and might purchase one when the price comes down

Also the iPad is not and never was, essential.

 

[heretiq]

lol it's marketing, nobody actually thinks Apple's "Spatial Computing" terminology is a new type of product except for those living under a rock that have never been exposed to AR/VR/MR. There is nothing that distinguishes Vision Pro/"Spatial Computing" as a brand new paradigm separate from existing AR/VR/MR devices. It's the same thing, just different hardware and software decisions than Valve Index, Meta Quest, etc.

There hasn't even been a single instance of Apple explicitly explaining how it's different from AR/VR/MR, you're gaslighting yourself. What Apple did is avoid directly comparing their product to existing products from competitors because that would violate their own marketing attempt to distinguish themselves as "the first Spatial Computer." You fell for it (NOT, since I refuse to believe this isn't a troll post).

If Meta unveiled the Quest 4 as a "Hypercomputer" are we supposed to pretend like it's some brand new category of product?

The only gaslighting going on here is from a handful of know-it-alls who lack either the capacity or discipline to suspend judgment, listen critically and change their minds when presented with new information. If you took the time to either listen to Apple or read some of the thoughtful analysis from others who started by listening to Apple, you might see just how shortsighted your assertions are.

Apple is building a platform for spatial computing. This includes everything from the computing device to spatial computing UI/UX, data modeling/representation/persistence, app design/development/deployment/distribution, privacy and other frameworks required to bootstrap an end-to-end spatial computing ecosystem. It’s obvious that this encompasses AR/VR/MR **plus a whole lot more ** — so the know-it-alls are adding nothing but noise and distraction to the discussion by harping on just the overlap.

Suspension of judgment and an honest effort to inform oneself about Apple’s vision (vs trying to confirm preexisting beliefs) might allow an honest skeptic to see that what Apple is trying to do is much more expansive than prior failed AR/VR/MR attempts — including current Quest/XReal and the other examples harped on by the know-it-alls.

Net-net: Apple is using the term Spatial Computing because they are doing something related, but legitimately different and much bigger. Deriding this extraordinary effort by equating it to “just marketing” shows a lack of understanding and respect for Apple’s seriousness and investment of money and life energies into this platform. That is to be expected from trolling, not honest discussion.

 

[heretiq]

Wrong perspective. AR/VR/MR markets already failed several times unlike iPhone as it grew up continuously since 2007.

Bingo. And Apple would be foolish to repeat the same mistakes — hence they are building a Spatial Computing platform that transcends previously failed AR/VR/MR experiments. I think the AR/VR/MR bone is obscuring the bigger picture.

 

[PsykX]

I think the future of those things is to end up having just a normal pair for glasses on you.

But tech's miniaturization level is still very far from that and at some point Apple's software team was ready to release something and the hardware team found a MVP.

 

[surferfb]

You say that but don’t forget that both Google and Samsung entered and exited the VR market SEVERAL years ago. Go ahead and revisit this thread years down the line and see what a true failure AVP is. Have you even done research on XReal Air Pro 2? Lightweight glasses form factor that offers TRUE AR and the ability to dim the lenses from clear to dark “sunglasses”. And yet you have this idea that AVP in 5 to 10 years will be so advanced that you come back to this thread?

I hope xreal is paying you well. You shill that them every time you post. The reviews of are terrible, and all they are are monitors.

 

[jclardy]

You might say I'm trolling but hear me out: Unlike iPhone, Apple Watch, iPad, and Mac, Vision Pro is NOT an essential device which is a huge problem.

Your premise is rose-tinted here. The iPhone was not essential at launch. People didn't see a reason to use a smartphone before an iPhone. I had a windows mobile 7 phone, but those phones were for nerds. The biggest player at the time for smartphone acceptance was blackberry.

Apple Watch - everyone said "who wears a watch anymore" when it came out. Now the watch industry has been revived and Rolex along with the entire watch industry is at an all time high.

iPad - everyone asked "why do I need a big iPhone", yet now it is just accepted as a device category.

If you see a trend here...there is a market that exists, but is a niche. Apple moves in, then in 3-5 years it becomes mainstream. The difference here is the $3500 price point that basically nobody can swallow, whereas everything else listed was < $1k.

Already AVP is adjusting Meta's trajectory, which was basically 100% gaming after the failure of the Quest Pro.

 

[surferfb]

BlackBerry was pretty successful in 2007. We have yet to see a successful VR platform. People need to stop pretending that this is anything like the iPhone launch.

I had a blackberry - they were popular with business people but they weren’t mass consumer products.

Not saying the Vision Pro will be like the iPhone. But for those of us who’ve been Apple fans for a while, we also heard these same posts about how the iMac will fail, the iPod will fail, the iPhone will fail, the iPad will fail, and the watch will fail, and it gets old after a while.

 

[AdonisSMU]

It’s probably just best to let things play out as they will rather than try to wish cast the future.

 

[AdonisSMU]

The problem is that AR/VR/MR markets are still niche and failed several times. They are more optimized for B2B, not B2C. Unlike other categories, it has been proven to be a failure which is a huge concern. As of today, most of people are not convinced to use AR/VR/MR devices.

Look at them. They are big and ugly. Of course no one is interested yet. We still need to refine the tech into something for average consumers. I don’t think the Vision Pro is doing anyone any favors by trying to be a slightly better iPad rather than a MacBook. I tend to think the Vision Pro should try to be a MacBook more because then it becomes easier to develop apps and websites for.

 

[Jarutais]

I think it just needs to mature both in hardware and in software before going mainstream. Imagine if in 10 years they manage to put Apple Vision Pro capabilities into normal glasses frames or in contact lenses... The current interaction of AVP is what the Motorolla cell phone was in the 80s: Big, clumsy and unaffordable but 10~20 years later we got to the iPhone

 

[tornadowrangler]

Just because the iPhone, Apple Watch, and iPad were eventually successful even though people doubted them at first, is not evidence that the AVP will be.

It's the survivors fallacy. Picking out the things that were successful as examples without also considering all the things that didn't succeed. Examples include things like 3Dtvs, Segway, Xbox Kinect, and even the Juicero! Likewise, saying that those things failed is also not good evidence that the AVP will.

If you want to convince people one way or the other, look at WHY the products were successful or not, and see which the AVP has more in common in.

By the way, go watch the Virtual Reality episode of Computer Chronicles from 1992!

 

[Hastings101]

I don't think essential has anything to do with it. Most Apple products aren't essential except for tiny niches beyond the iPhone.

But I do agree that the Vision Pro is a blunder at the moment. It is not getting the positive feedback I would expect from a "game changer" product. Also, I think it was rushed out too soon.

I saw a YouTube video that said essentially this product only exists to start making VR/AR headsets socially acceptable while they improve the design, and I think I agree with that sentiment right now. Maybe in the future Apple will improve the device, make it less cringe looking, and do something about the creepy front facing screen that makes it feel like interacting with a cyborg.

But as it is right now at this moment, this device has no big future. Vision (without the pro) might have a future.

 

[CooperBox]

Well I reckon it will be as big a success as 3D tv's.........
Now where did I put my 3D tv glasses. Damn! The last time I saw it the dog was chewing on it!

 

[surferfb]

I don't think essential has anything to do with it. Most Apple products aren't essential except for tiny niches beyond the iPhone.

But I do agree that the Vision Pro is a blunder at the moment. It is not getting the positive feedback I would expect from a "game changer" product. Also, I think it was rushed out too soon.

I saw a YouTube video that said essentially this product only exists to start making VR/AR headsets socially acceptable while they improve the design, and I think I agree with that sentiment right now. Maybe in the future Apple will improve the device, make it less cringe looking, and do something about the creepy front facing screen that makes it feel like interacting with a cyborg.

But as it is right now at this moment, this device has no big future. Vision (without the pro) might have a future.

I think this is a bit harsh (I wouldn’t call it a blunder at all - I love mine and am so glad they released it now), I think there is truth here. At a certain point you need to ship something to get feedback, learn how people use it, get developers thinking about app ideas, etc.

Apple Watch is a great example - the first watch was barely acceptable (I think AVP is way, way better as a 1.0 that the first Watch) and Apple wasn’t entirely sure what it was for. Not saying the AVP will become as ubiquitous as the watch, but think there is a similarity there as far as “version one of a wearable.”

 

[akidokraja]

All of Apple's products were 'not essential' when they launched. For some people, they aren't essential even now - there's plenty who don't own an iPad, or a Mac, or a Watch.

I do agree that the VR/AR market has proven to be a bit tough to crack thus far...but so was the tablet market, and the smartphone market, and the smartwatch market. Apple wasn't the first in any of those. They survived just fine.

Yes, they are essential. You can’t work in the office type of job without a PC or Mac. You almost can’t live without a smartphone. iPad and watch are less of essential.