It will be fun to read all these forums in 10 years. Sometimes for kicks I go back and read the old iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch forums. Or maybe 🤔 in 10 years AI 🤖 will rewrite all of them and the truth will be lost 😞. Could be the Wally Syndrome is upon us and we don’t even know it. Maybe we are all just a 3d projection from a black hole or maybe we are just one of many in the Multiverse… this is giving me a headache.
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Kinda doubt about Vision Pros' future.
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I would wager you don't find the sheer amount of AVP related "I'm returning this", "half baked", "what's this thing useful for?" posts
Maybe I'm wrong though -- please do share some of those if you see them!
(I'm sure some exist, don't get me wrong ... the alacrity with with AVP sentiment has turned to "nah...too expensive for what it is" feels fairly unique IIRC)
I'm not convinced the Vision Pro will succeed. But the reasons given here are lousy.
You're carrying a laptop around with you everywhere you go and the laptop is identifying the manufacturer and model of an article of clothing that you see someone wearing just by saying "I want that", and then drafting up an order to that particular manufacturer with your sizing, billing and shipping information?
Where can I get that software? Also, isn't that kind of cumbersome, lugging that laptop around and pointing it at people?
Oh, wait, you said phone... where can I get a phone app that can do all that, without me typing a single thing into the phone?
Who said "laptop"?
iPhones are computers/devices, are they not?
I was just going off your description and didn't see anything that a VR/AR headset is doing better than just looking/buying on your phone.
Could you not point your phone at things and have them pop up on your screen and buy them?
We do that now in a variety of Apps at grocery stores, etc
I think a full blown AR glasses thing could be a game changer. I think we all think that.
The tech for that isn't coming anytime soon though (sadly)
It's still a fantastic feature in its Mac implementation with its accuracy, speed and reliability. Which is what Apple usually does with new features to the Apple ecosystem (not the world). The previous VR implementations, from what I can tell, haven't been as polished. And I probably should have added the finger tapping/clicking gesture refinement in combination with the eye tracking, when I said it deserves to be further developed and explored in the Apple AR/VR space. But yes, I know that this tech has been around a while (over a century), and has been featured in other VR headsets as well.
I don't think you read my entire comment... I'm not talking about VR/AR in its current state. I'm talking about where it needs to be.
Phones already have a market and yes I'm sure there'll be a step somewhere in the middle where phones have this technology but ultimately, if MR/AR/VR wants to enjoy the kind of widespread adoption that phones have, your very comment underscores my point: then the MR solution has to be even easier to use than the phone, ergo, no-click purchasing.
And again, I'm envisioning a form factor that is contained entirely in a normal eyeglass lens, not some bulky, goofy looking thing.
It was the shrewdest thing in the world for Apple to frame the question I was grappling with 30 years ago in a different light, though piracy was one of the key factors I analyzed (representing then about 325 million albums in estimated lost sales annually)... but the way Apple framed it was more elegant: How do you compete with free?
To put it in terms relevant to the current situation: How do you compete with reality?
That's the question that VR/AR/MR isn't solving yet... because they keep seeing the solution is bringing everyone away from reality into the meta/whateververse rather than the other way around.
Give me virtual superpowers I can make practical use of in the real world and I will mortgage my left arm to have them.
Make my real life easier, not less real.
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I think you are bang on that it doesn't do most things better in its current form factor vs a laptop/desktop/iPhone/iPad/4k display setup. One could argue that you just buy a 42" or larger 4k oled tv as a monitor or two, to get a similar level of immersion in specific workflows and with more comfort. That being said, there are two things that I can think of, does make it better vs the above; 1. the ability to take your large screens anywhere with you and 2. the media consumption immersion. In its current form, videophiles will most likely love this device just for that alone and will pay the money vs a large screen home theatre. The movie immersion, which I don't think even an iMax 3D movie in a theatre can match, may buy this device enough time to refine the other stuff.
100% with you
We are seeing very understandable pushback to anymore tech that further isolates and addicts us and/or steals us away from real life around us.
The desire for complementary tech is massive -- we just aren't there yet for many reasons, but mainly tech constraints I think. I do think there are vested business interests that won't help, even when the tech is ready.
We've got to find some way to fund things that isn't about monetizing our data, attention and incessant advertising, as one example.
It's going to be a tough sell, even for them, if they can't enjoyably wear it (or power it) for long enough to watch a movie...nor enjoy said entertainment with their friends or family
It definitely has novelty factor - but I question the long term staying power of a product that is so isolating
My pattern recognition says that these types of negative posts on the AVP remind me of similar posts on the iPhone 1, and the iPad 1. With the iPhone 1 people said why would you need to browse the web on your phone when a MacBook offers a better bigger screen. With the iPad people said it’s just a big phone. The phone is ultra portable, and if you need a bigger screen you have a laptop. The iPad they said has the limitations of a phone without the pocket ability.
I find this type of thinking unimaginative and limited.
I find this type of thinking unimaginative and limited.
We've covered this, and the differences between the AVP and iPhone and iPad launches, ad nauseam
These are different situations entirely
Apple Vision Pro is entering a different market and societal context, where concerns about isolation and the practicality of wearing such a device are pronounced.
Assuming that the AVP will follow the same path as the iPhone or iPad without considering its unique challenges is also a lack of imagination. Being open to the possibility that not all innovations will seamlessly integrate into our lives is a more nuanced and thoughtful approach. The success of the AVP is not a foregone conclusion, and its journey is more complex and uncertain than previous Apple products
"No for those who dislike major change and prefer slow refinement to what already works for them." That's me! I get that it benefits Apple. But how does it benefit humanity? OLED laptop please, Apple! Cheaper 6k monitor please, Apple!
I semi-agree wtih you. I think one big difference was the form factor. Im an apple fanboy, bought iPhone 1, iPad 1, Apple Watch one (returned it but now occasionally use my version 7), and AVP 1 (returned it). I think the big difference between AVP and the others, despite early unimaginative thinking, was the other products were largely there at day 1, whereas AVP most definitely is not.
iPhone 1: back in those days (as a working professional), I carried an iPad, personal flip phone and blackberry for work. iPhone 1 replaced 2 of those devices, and I could see how it would eventually replace the blackberry, which it did. Form factor was great, other than keyboard which they did an amazing job with predictive text/autocorrect and after a few days you could type well enough to not be too annoyed by it.
Ipad 1: never understood the "just a big iPhone" argument. The potential of a much larger touch based screen that was more portable than your Mac was pretty clear you could fit more on the screen and apps would be better than their iPhone equivalent simply because there was a bigger canvas.
Apple Watch 1: slow, ultimately didnt like the "fashion" of it (still dont) and actually couldn't use it one handed. But could see how if you could get over the fashion of it, its would be a good companion to iPhone as a notification device if anything else. And later health.
AVP1: form factor just didnt work, even tough I didnt find it too uncomfortable, but not comfortable enough to just through on my head, especially at home when better alternatives. That left travel and brining big screens with you. But the glare for me makes it a non starter, the virtual MacBook screen was cool but not sharp enough to make it a long term solution, and it messes up your hair and if applicable, your make up. For the last reason alone I don think you will ever see mass adoption in this general form factor because half the population wont wear it (women). So AVP form factor is DOA. The only way I can imagine AVP taking off is if tech got to similar to glasses, otherwise I dont think its going to succeed.
Fiction competes with reality, movies compete with reality. Sometimes people want something that isn’t reality.
Not sure I 100% agree. With iPhone 1 there was no App Store, and no 3G. So the usability was definitely limited compared with the iPhone 3G. Nonetheless the iPhone 1 was good for things like reading the news, getting the weather, checking a stock price - all things which were challenging on say a Blackberry.
Likewise I think the AVP is excellent for things like watching movies, viewing photos, and a handful of AR apps like the dinosaur one. I would say it has as compelling a limited use case as the iPhone 1 did, and I can see a much broader use case for this as the device and form factor evolve. Nonetheless for the basic use cases which it has nailed so far, it is excellent. To me the only reason I haven't bought one is price. I really want one for watching movies and viewing photos, and 3D documentaries. However $4000 is too much for me for this set of use cases.
100% THIS... One of the advantages Apple has is that the data aren't the point.
What use would ads be when everything you see is already a product? What use would it be to monetize my data if I can directly be connected to the best vendor for the chest that fits the dimensions in the corner of my bedroom (as calculated just by looking at it).
Apple's relationship with developers and distributors is one of the strongest there is, and the only ones complaining were people who don't understand what a pittance artists and developers were collecting before App Store and iTunes. The actual makers of products love the exposure and instant access to billions of consumers.
Capitalism in principle is not a bad thing when it connects buyers and sellers in a good faith, bona fide transaction where the buyer pays a decent price for a product and gets exactly what they were looking for.
I don't want AI to to send me into a virtual hellscape just to bombard me with DLC that compels me to stay longer in VR to buy more DLC to stay longer in VR to buy more DLC. I want AI to make the more stressful aspects of reality easier for me to navigate so I have more time to enjoy real experiences.
To paraphrase Joe Macmillan, VR/AR/MR isn't the thing. It's the thing that gets you to the thing.
And I don't think you have to worry about Apple slowing or stopping progression of their core hardware business. It is what funds their endeavours in the first place (along with services), and is the realistic cushion if AVP does in fact fail like some think here. Both things can progress at the same time. AVP will not prevent or slow the release of future OLED laptops or cheaper 6k monitors. Apple has to find ways to make money after all and AVP won't for a long time.
Is that true? I remember in 2007 Blackberry was all the rage. As was the sidekick.
Then there were the HP Windows Mobile devices that were pretty widespread.
So there were proven demand, the tech just had not caught up yet. Steve Jobs saw the demand and found a way to orchestrate his team to leapfrog the tech.
In contrast to today...we're being taught to want this. It worked with the apple watch, but that had some connection to existing demand - people already wore watches, just not necessarily smart watches. VR headsets have no real connection to existing human behaviours. It would have been easier to make smart sunglasses.
They were popular with tech nerds and business people, but absolutely not with consumers. I’d say similar to how VR headsets are popular with tech nerds and gamers.
To be clear, not saying AVP is going to be the next iPhone. Just that in 2007 it wasn’t a given smartphones would be a mass consumer product.
I recall trying a coworker's Crackberry Pearl... I wanted to throw it through a window after barely a couple minutes of use. The UI was a giant pain in the ass. I never bought a Crackberry or any other kind of "smartphone" and I had been using cell phones since 1996.
That said, iPhone was a more fleshed-out game changer than iPod which was met with some very ho-hum reactions, including this legendary gem.
The problem with iPod was that they were still bootstrapping the product ecosystem, and it really wasn't until 2003, with the iTunes Music Store, that it started to take off.
The biggest hindrance for AVP is VR adoption in general being limited by form factor. I don't care what people rationalize about it... Using it intrudes, rather than simplifies... whereas with iPod the thing it was replacing was things like the Discman or Walkman, and thus simplifying that aspect of an existing relationship with technology.
To that end, by the time iPod was ten years old, digital downloads and streaming had replaced physical media as the dominant format for music. VR is already ten years old. It is a niche product in maturity.
In the era of mobile computing, where "device" is synonymous with "computer that fits in your shirt pocket", VR goggles are a big step backward in terms of usability. That's where we are now, and VR needs to catch up. For those of us who can afford these (myself included) reality is still more convenient.
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It definitely has some v1 shortcomings right now, but I don't doubt its future at all. This is the future of computing for sure.
Thanks for your graciousness. Apology accepted but not necessary as no offense was taken. I think we are mostly in agreement with some fuzziness due to semantics and maybe differing perspectives on the timeline for realizing the spatial computing vision and potential. I personally think that we’ll see significant improvement within 3-5 years in form factor (weight and size) and product-market fit (spatial computing apps for key consumer and enterprise use cases). We are all speculating right now but to paraphrase your reality comment, time will tell.