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Let's rev up some excitement for the 2013 Mac Pro!
- Thread starter StephenCampbell
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I was under the illusion for a long time that Apple had a soul. They don't.
As long as they are making the big bucks, they are happy.
I believe there is some soul left to them. Capitalism could not drive it from them fully. I know there is still good in them.
That's not how publicly traded corporations work.
They put time and money into crafting a public image that gives the impression that they're not about money, but if you look at their balance sheets (MR even puts articles of this on their front page), that's not actually the case.
The real profits have shifted from professional products to consumer products, and that's reflected in Apple's product lines. All you have to do is look.
Now, I don't want to make the late Mr. Jobs a saint.
But considering iOS 6, I think it's fair that one "fears" what they'll come up with next year for the MP crowd. They botched Apple Maps and the Clock in iOS 6.
I wonder how much havoc they can wreck on a redesigned MP, if there's nobody there to "just say no" when something is stupid or doesn't work.
But considering iOS 6, I think it's fair that one "fears" what they'll come up with next year for the MP crowd. They botched Apple Maps and the Clock in iOS 6.
I wonder how much havoc they can wreck on a redesigned MP, if there's nobody there to "just say no" when something is stupid or doesn't work.
Some of Apple's UI decisions in iOS have been shaky for a long time, even when Mr Jobs was around. They basically break nearly all of the UI guidelines that their "evangelists" preach at WWDC. In 2011 the guy spent nearly 20 minutes going on about alerts and how they distract the user and suggested to use them sparingly or to use alerts that do not require user dismissal. Now take a look at Mail. It falls foul of everything that he said is bad.
There are plenty of things not quite right and stupid at Apple. They were not right even during Mr Jobs' reign. If it was up to him, there wouldn't be any iOS apps. I think something like a Mac Pro is hard to muck up, but you never know. I think the company needs more engineers and software developers and less evangelists or maybe they just want to be the new Google where all new products are released as Beta.
You want people to get excited about a machine that might never appear? Based on what?
A message from Tim Cook, the King Bean Counter?
No thanks.
There has been nothing to indicate a new Mac Pro is on the way at all. That message every one refers too does not mention the MacPro. It mentions something Pro users will really like. Pro users can go a p**s into the wind as far as Apple are concerned. The mass produced rip-offs are what Apple now considers it's priority.
Apple lost it's sole many years ago.
Note this sole, a Plaice would be better, give the Bean Counter at the top a smack round the face with a big wet fish.
This is only a valid argument if you actually put that extra horse power to use. If you don't use that extra power then you spend the extra money for no reason
His point doesn't rely entirely on using the horse power. The way I see it is that you could spend say $5000 on a Mac Pro today (assuming a potential 2013 Sandy Bridge 6 core, with a monitor and extra HDs/RAM) and have it last 6 years, or you could spend $2000 on a iMac today, and $2000 (in PDV anyway) on an iMac 3 years from now. So you're spending an extra $1000 on computing over the next 6 years, but you're getting a much better computer for the first 3 and probably about an equal computer or slightly better one for the final three. You're also getting a computer with expandability. So, while you need to buy a monitor, you don't need to buy more expensive and slower external storage. Plus, you save yourself some hassle with exchanging computers.
So, its not all about using the extra horse power. Even for relatively everyday things, you will see an improvement from the iMac to the Mac Pro. Things like importing and converting home videos, touching up your family photos, while all feel faster and smoother, and especially, you'll be able to more comfortably do other things while you're computer is working on something. Sure, an iMac will be able to get all these simple things done, but its just easier on a Mac Pro. I sure notice the difference going form my Mac Pro to my MBP (which is not that different than an iMac).
This route is certainly not for everyone, and if you don't use the extra horse power the Mac Pro certainly looses a lot of advantages, but it certainly isn't a bad way to for some people.
I'd strongly argue that a MacPro top-line model today will last until 2020. The 2006 Pros are still cooking and will be good for 2 or 3 more years. Mine is still faster than almost any other non-MacPro computer made today; ignore the benchmark ratings, because they mean little when you actually use the things and find the single processor computers are crap next to a dual processor of lesser speed.
I'd give the 2006 until 2015. Sure, the OS left it behind, but the programs will work with Lion until 2014 or later.
The way computing is stalling in power and backtracking/downscaling for iDevices, a new dual processor Pro might go through 2022. The iMacs and Minis and such... not even close and they will never launch over the pro in these years until they get dual processors.
Yes, this is exactly it. It's not about maximizing the potential of the horsepower.
The Mac Pro you purchase today is going to be as good or better than the iMac you can purchase three years from today. It's as simple as that.
On-Topic:
The 2012 "update" was very disappointing; you have to think that Apple was distracted with the rest of their products and the poor old Mac Pro line is getting the short end of the stick. The promises of 'something exciting' for pros in 2013 could either be a total redesign of the tower line or the death of the Mac Pro in the shape of a forced migration for all pros to a beefed up iMac (or people fleeing to Windows).
With that being said, I am looking at my upgrade options and will probably be buying a new Mac in Q3/Q4 2013. I would like to get a Mac Pro but I'll have to wait and see what the future brings.
Less On-Topic:
Getting Pro users to express anything approaching a consistent opinion on this subject is like herding cats. Many pros users have happily transitioned to iMacs, and the logical outcome of this is that Apple would begin to question the viability of their tower line. In the event they seem to have decided that some explicitly pro product is still called for, though whether the tower line will continue is still, I suppose, a matter for debate.
Ever since Jobs' return to the helm at Apple, the company has shared an uneasy existence with its tower line, because it is the most un-Steve Jobs-like Mac. Unlike the iMacs, laptops and iThings, it's still a big square box filled with techy things and uses a separate display. You can connect lots of third party stuff inside and out. It is not simple, it's not 'cool' in the sense that it will become part of core identity of the early 21st century alongside the Prius, HDTV and low-calorie alcoholic beverages. This is textbook Anti-Steve behavior.
But technical realities have forced Apple to continue with the tower line because it is impossible to build an iMac with equivalent performance and flexibility, and a large proportion of pro users are obsessively picky about machine specs to begin with (not always without justification, but obsessively picky nonetheless).
Perhaps with Jobs gone the Mac tower line will actually see something of a renaissance, since the man who saw towers as anathema is no longer around. Perhaps it will branch out into a more mainsteam desktop with consumer CPU lines and the gamer GPUs people (including me) have frothed at the mouth over for years. Then again, it is also possible that the company will continue to focus on gadgets and the "traditional" computer line (including the iMacs and laptops) will be further sacrificed in favor of an exclusive focus on iThings. I can see it going either way, although Apple will still be making PCs for year to come.
As for the whole sole/soul argument, it is completely fatuous. Corporations, even the most creative and vibrant, are still money-making endeavors first and foremost, and are subject to the pressures of the business world. This is particularly true of a corporation the size of Apple. Creative individuals, like Ive or Jobs, might through brillaint design efforts manage to imbue their products with intangible soul-like qualities but the entity that designs and manufacturers them (by the millions) is as soulless as any corporation. It's never been any different and to think otherwise is completely naïve.
The 2012 "update" was very disappointing; you have to think that Apple was distracted with the rest of their products and the poor old Mac Pro line is getting the short end of the stick. The promises of 'something exciting' for pros in 2013 could either be a total redesign of the tower line or the death of the Mac Pro in the shape of a forced migration for all pros to a beefed up iMac (or people fleeing to Windows).
With that being said, I am looking at my upgrade options and will probably be buying a new Mac in Q3/Q4 2013. I would like to get a Mac Pro but I'll have to wait and see what the future brings.
Less On-Topic:
Getting Pro users to express anything approaching a consistent opinion on this subject is like herding cats. Many pros users have happily transitioned to iMacs, and the logical outcome of this is that Apple would begin to question the viability of their tower line. In the event they seem to have decided that some explicitly pro product is still called for, though whether the tower line will continue is still, I suppose, a matter for debate.
Ever since Jobs' return to the helm at Apple, the company has shared an uneasy existence with its tower line, because it is the most un-Steve Jobs-like Mac. Unlike the iMacs, laptops and iThings, it's still a big square box filled with techy things and uses a separate display. You can connect lots of third party stuff inside and out. It is not simple, it's not 'cool' in the sense that it will become part of core identity of the early 21st century alongside the Prius, HDTV and low-calorie alcoholic beverages. This is textbook Anti-Steve behavior.
But technical realities have forced Apple to continue with the tower line because it is impossible to build an iMac with equivalent performance and flexibility, and a large proportion of pro users are obsessively picky about machine specs to begin with (not always without justification, but obsessively picky nonetheless).
Perhaps with Jobs gone the Mac tower line will actually see something of a renaissance, since the man who saw towers as anathema is no longer around. Perhaps it will branch out into a more mainsteam desktop with consumer CPU lines and the gamer GPUs people (including me) have frothed at the mouth over for years. Then again, it is also possible that the company will continue to focus on gadgets and the "traditional" computer line (including the iMacs and laptops) will be further sacrificed in favor of an exclusive focus on iThings. I can see it going either way, although Apple will still be making PCs for year to come.
As for the whole sole/soul argument, it is completely fatuous. Corporations, even the most creative and vibrant, are still money-making endeavors first and foremost, and are subject to the pressures of the business world. This is particularly true of a corporation the size of Apple. Creative individuals, like Ive or Jobs, might through brillaint design efforts manage to imbue their products with intangible soul-like qualities but the entity that designs and manufacturers them (by the millions) is as soulless as any corporation. It's never been any different and to think otherwise is completely naïve.
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A sobering, but great post!
I would like to think that the iPhone 5, and the safe route Apple are now taking is indicative of things to come. A lot of people are upset it was not more innovative, but I see this as a sign that Apple see the benefit in nurturing existing products.
The MacPro is a beast to move around with - recently moving overseas I shipped mine via courier and it set me back as much as a new iMac. And the MacPro doesn't look as cool, infact a lot of people don't know that there are even MacPro's. So I see that it is in opposition to this whole mobile-creative-world where we zip around in jets and cafes and create little iphone apps that tell each other where we are and what we're eating.
Everything goes in seasons, and the release of the iPhone5 that was not so innovative, but a refining of great technology says to me that this season of the iToy has reached a pinnacle that will now make way for another season.
People go through seasons as well. I came up through the following seasons, building my own PC's, to having a Powerbook, to having an iMac, to having a MacPro and Macbook, to upgrading my own MacPro outside of apple guidelines and so on, kind returning back to the origins. You can see many mac pro users have a similar seasonal flow, and many of us returning to that origin of the cycle of perhaps building our own machines again. The only holdup becoming the Os. If apple don't attempt to interject that cyclical pattern then it could be many generations before you return to the product cycle. Who knows, maybe Ubuntu make a jump in design and some new porting software comes out that makes it a very easy shift to an open source environment where all your tools run easily elsewhere.
Underlying all this, it reveals to me how much I rely on Apple. One update from them and my working environment changes in a heartbeat. They make a promise and potentially discontinue a line and that is worrying. And it should be worrying for them also, because I'm not just questioning my relationship to this one computer but to the company as a whole - last time I did this was with Microsoft and since I crushed that relationship, I never touched one of their products again.
Never a good idea to rely on one company. To risky. Allot of pro's moved away from apple after Final cut changed and Mac pro's not keeping up with the times. If the last time you used Microsoft XP, your missing out on Win7. Allot different and very stable. I came back to apple after XP for awhile. Enjoyed using my Mac pros. After building my own using win7 64, haven't regretted it. More options with hardware and cheaper too. Doesn't look promising for apple to continue with updating the Mac pro. Won't know for sure until next year but seeing what apple charges for the latest outdated Mac pro, the next one will be out of most peoples reach.
I agree to an extent, that its why when I finally made the choice to get a smart phone I took on a SIII. Despite having a house full of macs I'm happy to say I never voted with my cash on the iCools. And I can see that Windows has made steps forward, but I treat my companies like ex girlfriends. 'ex' being the key factor. I think if more people thought like I do, we would have far more innovation in the software arena, and less monopoly.
Certainly, if people put their heads to improving something like Ubuntu, or another open *nix platform, within a short time we'd have something that would rival OSx. Whatever the case one thing is for sure: you can't move forward with a new girl while you're still dating the old one... at least in my limited experience.
Win7 gets a boot here in parallels occasionally, but only out of absolute necessity, to discover how perfectly good code gets broken and interpreted by a corrupt OS. Don't forget: Microsoft decided once upon a time that it would try to dominate the internet and make its own rules which cast a mega shadow on future innovation and put the whole world into a cripple. As a web developer, what Microsoft did has had repercussions which have made my career twice as hard as it should have been. Over 10 years of needing to hack away to make things work on their terrible attempt to own the internet is just not forgivable.
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I thought we were past that? Not really an update at all. In any case, I'm finding it very hard to be optimistic, but am watching the imac situation and that is even more telling than the Mac Pro situation. Apple is clearly headed in another direction. That of mobility and not much else. Well, maybe a ling term TV plan.
I don't think Apple is "clearly" headed in another direction. In the late 90s Steve Jobs returned to Apple and simplified the Apple product line by cutting it down to "Consumer" (iMac) and "Pro" (PowerMac) lines with essentially one model each. It's been essentially the same ever since. Trust me, it's much better than the days of the PPC Performas and Power Macs, when Apple produced a rather bewildering array of desktops with overlapping capabilities. The major difference is the arrival and market dominance of the iThings. They make up a huge proportion of Apple's income and consume a majority of Apple's design resources.
I'm not always happy with Apple's design and specification decisions, but I don't see clear evidence of a massive change in direction. I also think people need to manage their expectations within realistic bounds. I find it sick that investors become "disappointed" when Apple's continuously record-breaking profits don't meet with their forecasts. That's just greed, and it could push the company in undesirable directions - but we have to remember that Apple is ultimately at the mercy of the shareholders. Similarly weird is the fact that every iThing launch is accompanied by media firestorms highlighting a few glitchy features and consumers whining because their pet feature was not included. After which, everyone goes and buys them anyway.
With that being said, I think dropping the Mac Pro line is a bad idea and Apple should show a stronger commitment to this segment, even though it is numerically the smallest by a large margin.
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Wouldn't want to be the first guy to exceed the weight limitations of the little things that hold all those stacks together when he picks up a server.
if only, right... I guess people have taken to making up there own news, rumors and now designs.
Some things that would make me excited about new mac pro:
slightly lighter - they manage to make everything else smaller but more powerful.. don't get me wrong: still want a big beast, but just a teeny bit smaller and lighter.
I think it would be cool if apple put some of their genius to building an even faster SSD setup than what anybody else is using in their machines... 9g or something ridiculous to lift the bar again. 5 second boot times or something silly like that. 0 second app load times. Like everything just lives in ram.
A less power hungry machine.
A quieter machine.
A cooler machine (less hot)
Obviously faster.
Design wise, a little bit of rubber insulation on the base wouldn't go astray to reduce vibration reverberation coming back into the MP.
Also perhaps some built in replaceable air filter - those fans accumulate a lot of dust which can eventually be the doom of a machine.
Rust proof casing and parts all throughout.
Just a wish list.
slightly lighter - they manage to make everything else smaller but more powerful.. don't get me wrong: still want a big beast, but just a teeny bit smaller and lighter.
I think it would be cool if apple put some of their genius to building an even faster SSD setup than what anybody else is using in their machines... 9g or something ridiculous to lift the bar again. 5 second boot times or something silly like that. 0 second app load times. Like everything just lives in ram.
A less power hungry machine.
A quieter machine.
A cooler machine (less hot)
Obviously faster.
Design wise, a little bit of rubber insulation on the base wouldn't go astray to reduce vibration reverberation coming back into the MP.
Also perhaps some built in replaceable air filter - those fans accumulate a lot of dust which can eventually be the doom of a machine.
Rust proof casing and parts all throughout.
Just a wish list.