Let's rev up some excitement for the 2013 Mac Pro!

[pagenotfound]

Not sure I can get excited about a 2013 Mac "Pro". Doubt it will be anything like the current range, unlikely to be Xeon, unlikely to be for the current Pro market. Will be similar to the laptop range, standard for school kids, pro for college students. Who needs anything else, I mean a college student can probably knock up a $100BN oh wait no 80BN hang on 60BN just a bit 40BN...... company on a laptop these days so they are the new "Pro" market, do they need the Mac Pro in the current form?

Oh and...

Is that a pic of your daughter? She looks pretty.

..that's just disturbing.

 

[Lesser Evets]

... Doubt it will be anything like the current range, unlikely to be Xeon, unlikely to be for the current Pro market. Will be similar to the laptop range, standard for school kids, pro for college students.

I think you are too college-centric. While the college market is huge and palpable, the Pro market is completely different 99% of the time. There are college kids that need a Pro as it is now, but very few need a computer like that. Hell, most college kids can get by with an iPad these days.

The Pro market is slim, but it is out there and dedicated. I doubt Apple will trash that market yet, but it appears they might drop the MacPro by the next decade.

The laptop market will probably morph into a tablet market, the Apple notebooks going to chunky pad form. I'd bet the iMac will blend with the iPad by 2020, and we'll see iMacs being tricked out base/storage/connectivity units for iPad-like screens which can be carried away to the field. Non-mobile computers will be only for true computer geeks in the next decade.

But the MacPro won't morph so quick. It will be around a few more years to provide the power processing to the few that want it.

 

[twietee]

The laptop market will probably morph into a tablet market, the Apple notebooks going to chunky pad form. I'd bet the iMac will blend with the iPad by 2020, and we'll see iMacs being tricked out base/storage/connectivity units for iPad-like screens which can be carried away to the field. Non-mobile computers will be only for true computer geeks in the next decade.

But the MacPro won't morph so quick. It will be around a few more years to provide the power processing to the few that want it.

50% agreed. But being true for the way Apple is heading towards, doesn't mean it's true in general. It sounds as if Apple kills it's Pro-Tools (hasn't it already now?) there are no Pros around anymore. But that won't be the case for, well, I would say as long as the earth as we know it is spinning.

Put into more general words: just because the second and the tertiary sector is/was growing substantially doesn't mean there is no need for industrial production anymore. That would be stupid reasoning. I think this analogy (if comprehensable, sorry for my bad English + I'm at work) is not so bad, because one can see that industrial production is seen or was for quite a long time as the black sheep (dirty) and therefore neglected. But it's still there, bigger as ever, just hidden for those who doesn't look closely enough. The MacPro is the embodiment of work, hard work and is therefore an outsider withing the whole new Apple product-line which is more about light, entertaining and smart devices..no Trucks wanted anymore!

No problem for the majority, those who need a truck and want a beautiful one will be disappointed.

 

[StephenCampbell]

If the next Mac Pro is not Xeon, etc, and is essentially more like a tower version of the iMac, that would actually be just fine for me, especially since that would mean that it would be more affordable.

I need a tower for the customizability, upgradeability and superb lifespan, but I don't need it to be a 30,000 geekbench machine.

 

[JesterJJZ]

If the next Mac Pro is not Xeon, etc, and is essentially more like a tower version of the iMac, that would actually be just fine for me, especially since that would mean that it would be more affordable.

I need a tower for the customizability, upgradeability and superb lifespan, but I don't need it to be a 30,000 geekbench machine.

See, you're asking for a different product altogether, or the xmac, as some call it. While it's fine for you, I need dual-processors, a ton of ram and all the horsepower and stability I can get. All that means Xeon.

 

[twietee]

If the next Mac Pro is not Xeon, etc, and is essentially more like a tower version of the iMac, that would actually be just fine for me
(...)
I need a tower for the customizability, upgradeability and superb lifespan

While it's fine for you, I need dual-processors, a ton of ram and all the horsepower and stability I can get. All that means Xeon.

Hopefully Jesters needs will be served as it is what I want too, but have to admit that I suppose both scenarios aren't too realistic (long term) imho. The iMac is going to be less and less user upgradeable, they will make it as thin as possible, I would bet money on that. Maybe not this year but the next - same case with anything towerlike ("customizability, upgradeability and superb lifespan") - but that thing already exists and is called MacMini which is not about to replace the MacPro, that's just impossible.

And the Apple workstation as we know it won't be alive much longer. Maybe we'll see a machine with 6-core desktop CPUs (later 8-core and so on) but that's about it..hopefully not.

Man, I really try to be excited but it just doesn't work!

 

[StephenCampbell]

See, you're asking for a different product altogether, or the xmac, as some call it. While it's fine for you, I need dual-processors, a ton of ram and all the horsepower and stability I can get. All that means Xeon.

I would like all of that as well... I was just saying it wouldn't be the end of the world for me if the next tower is more like an iMac in terms of power.

And, given that Apple has the means, easily, to continue to satisfy the pro users, and that they have always associated themselves closely with creative media of all kinds, I just doubt that they'll actually be killing the pro tower anytime soon. Film editors for example, will be editing on towers for a long time. Why would Apple want to not be a part of those markets anymore?

 

[Wolf1982]

I think that regardless of how old the components of the current Mac Pro technically are, Apple is well aware that it is more than adequate to perform what any professional would need it to, and since they have been rapidly expanding their mobile platforms, that's where the focus was the last few years.

Even my 2006 Mac Pro is still a beast and perfectly capable of doing any video/photo/etc work that a professional would need.

The current 12 core Mac Pro is 400% faster than mine.

And Tim Cook has confirmed that an all-new Mac Pro is coming. There is no need to update the pro tower every year, but there's no reason they wouldn't create an all-new, cutting-edge machine next year.

Although for most pro users a 2006 is still ok to get work done.... I wouldnt say its adequate for "any" as you say.

I have an 2x4 3.0 1,1 (upgraded from the 2x dual core)

Although I like my machine, its slow as all hell dealing with my large aperture libraries and files from my d800 and scans from my med format 6x8 camera. I would very much like a mac pro with a current gen video card. Its time to add things like crossfire and sli support for those with gpu intense apps.

Also...although my mac pro 2x4 3.0ghz is alright the rest of the components like ram are slow as well too.

Apple has neglected these machines. It's time.

 

[deconstruct60]

I would very much like a mac pro with a current gen video card. Its time to add things like crossfire and sli support for those with gpu intense apps.

OS X video drivers and OpenGL support lag behind now. Usually that is about a year for GPU cards and multiple years for OpenGL. If add crossfire/SLI complexity to the process that is far more likely to make them lag behind even more.

Secondly, Xfire/SLI are largely aimed at increasing frame rates and/or by passing the PCI-e oversubsciption limitations. That is not necessarily increasing GPU intensive apps. Anything that is sending shared memory computations to the GPU "card' isn't going to benefit from XFire/SLI.

The most recent generation GPU with a greater than or equal to 2 GB VRAM buffer would obviate the need for XFire/SLI for the vast majority of users.

If Apple got to the point that video drivers and OpenGL support was roughly equal to Windows then could start talking about maybe adding Crossfire/SLI support. The latter is a "nice to have" not a basic "need to have".

 

[JesterJJZ]

I would like all of that as well... I was just saying it wouldn't be the end of the world for me if the next tower is more like an iMac in terms of power.

Well I'm on the ledge about to jump ship. Was ready to spend $5k+ on a new MacPro in June. Apple failed to deliver and all we got was an empty promise of "something great" on the horizon. Whatever this new MacPro will be, it will show the roadmap of where Apple is headed in the pro and power tower market. If it's not a total knock out I'll have no choice but pull the trigger on a Z820 from HP. It really is Apple's last chance to get it right here.

 

[deconstruct60]

I would like all of that as well... I was just saying it wouldn't be the end of the world for me if the next tower is more like an iMac in terms of power.

Apple could do a Xeon E3 "smaller" tower for folks that was parked on the $2,000 border with the iMac. It would be less expensive than the top end iMac with lots of BTO extras. That's more like the iMac in terms of CPU power. Apple could be very generous in power supply levels (same 900W) and PCI-e zone cooling and allow for a higher end PCI-e GPU card configurations.

The Mac Pro price point is not solely or even mostly driven by the CPU cost. So dropping Xeon (or not) isn't going to necessarily move the price much. There are a wide variety of Xeon price points so there is no need to drop it from an alternative tower configuration.

Apple is extremely not interested in either moving the Mini up to cannibalize the iMac or the Mac Pro down to do the same thing. There is a mythical xMac that would exist in the middle, but the reality is there seems to be not even enough resources around to move the Mini and Mac Pro forward on a timely basis. If resources were spread even thinner on yet another model that largely cannibalizes and existing Mac model ....... err no.... highly not going to happen.

There is a problem with the Mac Pro line up in that it has drifted too far off of the $2,000 border. Whether they plug that gap with an Xeon E3 or E5 has different tradeoffs in component and design reuse.

lm editors for example, will be editing on towers for a long time. Why would Apple want to not be a part of those markets anymore?

If that market becomes a very stagnant fixed size they will be inclined to drop it because it has no growth potential.

This is yet another flaw in the current Mac Pro.... it largely pigeonholed as being only useful for a small number of relatively fixed niches. The Mac Pro has to find new markets to be useful in where folks need the additional horsepower and see the value. Some workloads are going to drop down to iMacs.
iMacs now can do the vast majority of the work Mac Pro class machines were doing 5-7 years ago. For folks who are going to do exactly the same sort of stuff for the next 3-4 years an iMac will work. Effectivlely Apple can use the performance increases that come across all models to capture more workloads over time if those workloads aren't increasing faster than the hardware gets better.

 

[StephenCampbell]

I think the core reality at the root of Apple's recent delays with upgrading the Mac Pro is that the current Mac Pro serves more than adequately anybody who needs a tower for professional reasons.

The high end machine with the best CPU has a geekbench fully double that of the best, maxed out iMac. We here on Macrumors are a fringe group of fanatics who keep up to date with all the news and technology and everything, so to us it seems a little outdated, but to any professional who says "I need the most powerful Mac Apple offers" and buys the current Mac Pro, they'd never suspect that it is outdated in any way or that it could be better.

 

[twietee]

I think the core reality at the root of Apple's recent delays with upgrading the Mac Pro is that the current Mac Pro serves more than adequately anybody who needs a tower for professional reasons.

The high end machine with the best CPU has a geekbench fully double that of the best, maxed out iMac. (..) but to any professional who says "I need the most powerful Mac Apple offers" and buys the current Mac Pro, they'd never suspect that it is outdated in any way or that it could be better.

That's just not true. Why do you compare a supposed to be state of the art workstation with a prosumer iMac? They have nothing in common. Compare it with other workstation vendors, then you'll see what professionals can buy and what Apple offers to them.

 

[beaker7]

That's just not true. Why do you compare a supposed to be state of the art workstation with a prosumer iMac? They have nothing in common. Compare it with other workstation vendors, then you'll see what professionals can buy and what Apple offers to them.

+1. I have a 2010 12 Core 2.93 Mac Pro and I am migrating more and more work to my new Windows workstation as it is significantly faster.

 

[StephenCampbell]

+1. I have a 2010 12 Core 2.93 Mac Pro and I am migrating more and more work to my new Windows workstation as it is significantly faster.

Okay, my bad.

 

[deconstruct60]

That's just not true. Why do you compare a supposed to be state of the art workstation with a prosumer iMac?

Implicit is a presumption that migration costs to Windows (or Linux) are prohibitively expensive so looking only inside the Mac product line up. That's not just software but training and integration change costs.

For some those are larger than others. Some folks dual boot into Windows a significant amount of time anyway. For those folks the costs are going to be much more easy to absorb. For another set the apps may be the same ( e.g. , Adobe CS ) but some integration costs are more expensive. There is only a smaller group for which there are no apps to move to or integration

Compare it with other workstation vendors, then you'll see what professionals can buy and what Apple offers to them.

The larger workstation vendors are selling the same stuff Apple is Westmere based stuff. They just have a broader line that includes the Sandy Bridge E5 models also. However, they haven't stopped selling the older versions. Those are "fast enough" for some people. Apple's line up is incomplete but it also isn't completely detached from competitors either.

 

[twietee]

Implicit is a presumption that migration costs to Windows (or Linux) are prohibitively expensive so looking only inside the Mac product line up. That's not just software but training and integration change costs.

That's true. My bad.

The larger workstation vendors are selling the same stuff Apple is Westmere based stuff. They just have a broader line that includes the Sandy Bridge E5 models also.

I didn't say that there is no pro out there for whom the current line is sufficent. But there is not one convincing argument why they didn't refresh. Working on something new is no excuse at all - even more so if it's more or less only a new Motherboard and chipset to be implemented. Not even speaking about graphics here.

Edit: just to make my position clear: I work with 5-6 programs professional wise and they're all crossplatform (including licenses) except one. So I'm very relaxed. I was about to jump ship and buy me the 6-core refurb last week, partly because I love the case, partly because of my other apple devices and partly because the power would be sufficent for 2-3 years.
Now reading all these threads I'll just pimp my Pc a bit for a fraction of the cost and see what happens within the next 1-2 years.

 

[StephenCampbell]

That's true. My bad.




I didn't say that there is no pro out there for whom the current line is sufficent. But there is not one convincing argument why they didn't refresh. Working on something new is no excuse at all - even more so if it's more or less only a new Motherboard and chipset to be implemented. Not even speaking about graphics here.

Edit: just to make my position clear: I work with 5-6 programs professional wise and they're all crossplatform (including licenses) except one. So I'm very relaxed. I was about to jump ship and buy me the 6-core refurb last week, partly because I love the case, partly because of my other apple devices and partly because the power would be sufficent for 2-3 years.
Now reading all these threads I'll just pimp my Pc a bit for a fraction of the cost and see what happens within the next 1-2 years.

Good choice. Something extraordinary will most certainly happen within the next year. There is no way that Tim Cook would blatantly and maliciously lie to the entire pro user base in his email. The rumors of an all new 2012 Mac Pro were just rumors. Now Apple has actually confirmed they're working on something new and great. Apple doesn't just lie...

 

[OS6-OSX]

Along with some excitement for the 2013 Mac Pro, rev up some specific needs/wants from it. I just so happen to upgrade to a 3.1 8-core Two 2.8Ghz Quad in 11-11 from a 2.0 dual G5. So I fall into the category of “all is fine on the western front”.
I say to rev up specific needs/wants because:
a. Just because apple engineers can put it together does not mean they can think of what’s really needed/wanted!
b. Apple is reading and paying attention
On a “Pro” forum a couple of years ago there was hype about “Phenomenon”. This was the app that was to replace Shake. In a nut shell:
a. Shake is a professional compositing app
b. Developed in Santa Monica CA by Nothing’s Real
c. Apple bought Nothing’s Real. Nothing’s Real thinking Apple’s $ and our knowledge = greater pro app to compete with The Foundry’s app Nuke
d. The next thing the forum knew was that the “Nothing’s Real” team was at The Foundry working on Nuke!
e. During this time Apple announced that “Phenomenon” would be based on the apple app Motion! Motion, a “nothing” app that is no more pro than the mac mini!
f. After all the laughter on the forum died down, there were words of wisdom with ^#@%! words included. The forum pretty much put their middle finger in “Motion” to Apple!
Someone at Apple got wind and Phenomenon was scrapped!
Revving up specific needs/wants “might” see those items on the 2013 Mac Pros. Don’t leave it up to iApple!

 

[PowerPCMacMan]

Well thought out!

Along with some excitement for the 2013 Mac Pro, rev up some specific needs/wants from it. I just so happen to upgrade to a 3.1 8-core Two 2.8Ghz Quad in 11-11 from a 2.0 dual G5. So I fall into the category of “all is fine on the western front”.
I say to rev up specific needs/wants because:
a. Just because apple engineers can put it together does not mean they can think of what’s really needed/wanted!
b. Apple is reading and paying attention
On a “Pro” forum a couple of years ago there was hype about “Phenomenon”. This was the app that was to replace Shake. In a nut shell:
a. Shake is a professional compositing app
b. Developed in Santa Monica CA by Nothing’s Real
c. Apple bought Nothing’s Real. Nothing’s Real thinking Apple’s $ and our knowledge = greater pro app to compete with The Foundry’s app Nuke
d. The next thing the forum knew was that the “Nothing’s Real” team was at The Foundry working on Nuke!
e. During this time Apple announced that “Phenomenon” would be based on the apple app Motion! Motion, a “nothing” app that is no more pro than the mac mini!
f. After all the laughter on the forum died down, there were words of wisdom with ^#@%! words included. The forum pretty much put their middle finger in “Motion” to Apple!
Someone at Apple got wind and Phenomenon was scrapped!
Revving up specific needs/wants “might” see those items on the 2013 Mac Pros. Don’t leave it up to iApple!

 

[deconstruct60]

Good choice. Something extraordinary will most certainly happen within the next year.

That is unlikely. It is far more likely that something ordinary will happen within the next year. The Mac Pro will get an update to technology that is readily available right now and probably some non-revolutionary adjustments to the case.

There will likely also be some ordinary, relative to the workstation market, PCI-e cards have a good chance of being available too.

Now Apple has actually confirmed they're working on something new and great. Apple doesn't just lie...

LOL. "lie" isn't quite the correct word. However, they engage in hyperbole ( "it's magical" , "it is insanely great " , ..... ) all the time. Reading mountains into "great" is extremely misguided. Everything Apple releases is a "great product".

 

[thekev]

Along with some excitement for the 2013 Mac Pro, rev up some specific needs/wants from it. I just so happen to upgrade to a 3.1 8-core Two 2.8Ghz Quad in 11-11 from a 2.0 dual G5. So I fall into the category of “all is fine on the western front”.
I say to rev up specific needs/wants because:
a. Just because apple engineers can put it together does not mean they can think of what’s really needed/wanted!
b. Apple is reading and paying attention
On a “Pro” forum a couple of years ago there was hype about “Phenomenon”. This was the app that was to replace Shake. In a nut shell:
a. Shake is a professional compositing app
b. Developed in Santa Monica CA by Nothing’s Real
c. Apple bought Nothing’s Real. Nothing’s Real thinking Apple’s $ and our knowledge = greater pro app to compete with The Foundry’s app Nuke
d. The next thing the forum knew was that the “Nothing’s Real” team was at The Foundry working on Nuke!
e. During this time Apple announced that “Phenomenon” would be based on the apple app Motion! Motion, a “nothing” app that is no more pro than the mac mini!
f. After all the laughter on the forum died down, there were words of wisdom with ^#@%! words included. The forum pretty much put their middle finger in “Motion” to Apple!
Someone at Apple got wind and Phenomenon was scrapped!
Revving up specific needs/wants “might” see those items on the 2013 Mac Pros. Don’t leave it up to iApple!

Someone at Apple got word of disgruntled individuals on an internet forum and scrapped the project on that basis? I'd suggest going on forums for such things whether they are macrumors, creativecow, robgalbraith (well, it used to be a forum) isn't a very good form of market research. The point is to ensure people can and will integrate your products in some way.

 

[StephenCampbell]

Well, I'd like to see them maintain an option for optical drives, but have it designed so that you can BTO hard drives or SSDs there instead, giving pro users the choice whether they're ready to give up optical drives yet.

They could even have a different face for the tower depending on whether you BTO an optical drive (or two) or none at all. It would just affect whether those slots are there or not.

State of the art CPU, GPU, etc. Xeon chips. Radeon HD 7000. Thunderbolt, USB 3.0, four hard drive bays (in addition to the potentially optical drive bays), 8GB ram standard, 2TB hard drive standard, and more affordable SSD options. Perhaps a 1TB SSD option for $799 or something.

 

[LeandrodaFL]

As longas it gets a case redisign, Im happy

 

[JesterJJZ]

As longas it gets a case redisign, Im happy

So glad you'd be pleased with the least important aspect of it. I don't care what the thing looks like, just make it big and powerful with all the right stuff inside.