Let's rev up some excitement for the 2013 Mac Pro!

[StephenCampbell]

Which processors would we be expecting in the new Mac Pro? I've been out of the loop of Intel's roadmap for a while.. but just began restudying it on wikipedia. It appears that the current Mac Pro's CPU is still based on the very outdated Nehalem architecture (the westmere variety) and even the recent speedbump only updated it to a CPU that was released in February 2011. Am I correct on all this?

Which Ivy Bridge Xeons do we want in the new machine?

 

[FluJunkie]

I think that regardless of how old the components of the current Mac Pro technically are, Apple is well aware that it is more than adequate to perform what any professional would need it to, and since they have been rapidly expanding their mobile platforms, that's where the focus was the last few years.

I think the core reality at the root of Apple's recent delays with upgrading the Mac Pro is that the current Mac Pro serves more than adequately anybody who needs a tower for professional reasons.

What is with this "any" thing you're asserting. I regularly run tasks on my Mac Pro that are either CPU or RAM bound.

"Many" perhaps. "StephenCampbell" obviously. But "any" just isn't true.

See, you're asking for a different product altogether, or the xmac, as some call it. While it's fine for you, I need dual-processors, a ton of ram and all the horsepower and stability I can get. All that means Xeon.

Yeah. I don't need a desktop iMac. I need a workstation.

The larger workstation vendors are selling the same stuff Apple is Westmere based stuff. They just have a broader line that includes the Sandy Bridge E5 models also. However, they haven't stopped selling the older versions. Those are "fast enough" for some people. Apple's line up is incomplete but it also isn't completely detached from competitors either.

It isn't completely detached, but it's noticeably lacking in some very important places.

 

[pagenotfound]

I think you are too college-centric. While the college market is huge and palpable, the Pro market is completely different 99% of the time. There are college kids that need a Pro as it is now, but very few need a computer like that. Hell, most college kids can get by with an iPad these days.

The Pro market is slim, but it is out there and dedicated. I doubt Apple will trash that market yet, but it appears they might drop the MacPro by the next decade.

I was using the college example to illustrate that what Apple defines as the Pro market has probably changed from the historical demographic and the creative professionals that kept the company going for so long are no longer needed. It isn't anticipation of the new MacPro in 2013 that is driving the share price up and making Apple the most valuable company in the world.

And the most valuable company in the world couldn't find the resources to update to E5 Xeons? I don't buy that thunderbolt had anything to do with this, I think far more people would have been happy to get a refresh without it rather than what they actually did do to refresh it.

If you really need a Xeon workstation with more power, I think you will have to start looking elsewhere. I personally think the next MacPro will be a Mini on steroids with desktop processors, 4 memory slots and 2 internal ssd slots. Really hope I'm wrong, but I'm no longer convinced that Apple want to be in the Pro Workstation market place any longer.

 

[OS6-OSX]

As I sit here at the “genius bar” sipping on my 5th Apple martini, I listen to the “bartender” tell stories of the past. When Apple computers and the OS’s had wow factors. The big moves from Motorola to IBM to Intel. Just then a youngster with a new iPod blaring walked by. He was listing to the iPod while talking on an iPhone and typing on an iPad. The bartender pointed at him and said that is the future! I turned to the bartender and asked “one for the road”! If you are going to EOL the MP make it a double. Give it the wow factor that will bring the HP Z820 users back into the fold. If you “water” it down trying to capture the iMac and MP crowd you are wasting time, energy and money! Bartender, make it top shelf and please keep the flowers and tiny umbrellas out of my glass!

 

[golf1410]

Get the fact, Apple doesn't care about professional users that much or Mac Pro. They are going crazy on post pc devices.

 

[StephenCampbell]

Get the fact, Apple doesn't care about professional users that much or Mac Pro. They are going crazy on post pc devices.

If that were true Tim Cook wouldn't have said this: "Our Pro customers like you are really important to us. Although we didn’t have a chance to talk about a new Mac Pro at today’s event, don’t worry as we’re working on something really great for later next year."

I think a lot of what they've done that has seemed anti-Pro lately (like Final Cut Pro X) is just typical Apple, giving people what they think they need, instead of what they want now. They're always looking to the future and trying to push things forward.

With the Mac Pro.. admittedly, they could have upgraded it more frequently, but there's no evidence that it's anywhere close to death.

 

[deconstruct60]

Which processors would we be expecting in the new Mac Pro? I've been out of the loop of Intel's roadmap for a while..

Not only out of the loop on Intel's roadmap but out of the loop on the context of this forums.

This is covered by gobs of threads already as sampling of a few:

"Sandy Bridge Everything we know"
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1178019/

"Dell Precision T5600 CPU Options and what it means for Mac Pro 2012 "
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1378164/

"New Dell Xeon E5-2667 Review - Mac Pro Soon?"
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1362202/

"New HP 420/620/820 Workstations now shipping "
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1357885/

Which Ivy Bridge Xeons do we want in the new machine?

If you want a new Mac Pro of same linage sooner rather than much later you'd want Sandy Bridge E5 1600 and 2600 series models.

Ivy Bridge Xeon E5 class aren't even roadmapped to appear before Q3 2013 and if lag is anything like this year that would mean between announcement and volume shipping a new model delay into Sept-November 2013. The notion that this Apple delay waiting for Ivy Bridge Xeon E5's is grossly flawed. There is extremely little upside to making that dubious move.

 

[StephenCampbell]

But those Sandy Bridge CPUs are already a year old now, aren't they? A new Mac Pro with Sandy Bridge was discussed back in June 2011.

 

[golf1410]

If that were true Tim Cook wouldn't have said this: "Our Pro customers like you are really important to us. Although we didn’t have a chance to talk about a new Mac Pro at today’s event, don’t worry as we’re working on something really great for later next year."

I think a lot of what they've done that has seemed anti-Pro lately (like Final Cut Pro X) is just typical Apple, giving people what they think they need, instead of what they want now. They're always looking to the future and trying to push things forward.

With the Mac Pro.. admittedly, they could have upgraded it more frequently, but there's no evidence that it's anywhere close to death.

When was the last time Apple redesign the Mac Pro? It took too long. Those devices are updated every single year. But Mac Pro was left behind. You see the Apple's priority on their products. What makes money for them.

 

[StephenCampbell]

When was the last time Apple redesign the Mac Pro? It took too long. Those devices are updated every single year. But Mac Pro was left behind. You see the Apple's priority on their products. What makes money for them.

I think the mobile device market is moving faster than the desktop/workstation market. I believe that Apple honestly felt that the current Mac Pro is good enough and that it's okay if they put their attention elsewhere for a little while and update it less frequently.

 

[JesterJJZ]

I miss the days where the Powermacs were updated in June/January like clockwork.

 

[StephenCampbell]

Well, the current trend has been going on for a while actually.. the wait times between Mac Pro updates get longer and longer, but in a very symmetrical way. Look:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Based on this, even if Apple waited approximately 420 days from WWDC 2012, (till approximately August 2013, when they could announce an Ivy Bridge Xeon Mac Pro), they would actually be beginning to reverse the trend, and have a wait significantly shorter than the last one. They may very well do this, as Tim Cook said "later next year."

I'm only slightly concerned about what the smoothness of an upgrade from 10.7 to 10.9 will be like (as the fall 2013 Mac Pros will be shipping with 10.9 and mine can only run 10.7) but other than that I'm comfortable with the wait time. It gives me even more time to save up.

 

[d-m-a-x]

When was the last time Apple redesign the Mac Pro? It took too long. Those devices are updated every single year. But Mac Pro was left behind. You see the Apple's priority on their products. What makes money for them.

I never realized the rMbp is a sealed box and cannot upgraded. Lets hope the same is not true for the new Mac Pro

 

[thekev]

I never realized the rMbp is a sealed box and cannot upgraded. Lets hope the same is not true for the new Mac Pro

That is old news. Notebook upgrades were somewhat limited. My primary irritation would be sealed in expendable components. If you're using it for work, paying $200 instead of $100-150 for 16GB of ram (dropped again recently, so now under $100) isn't anything more than mildly annoying. Having a glued battery, especially with prior swelling issues, and a proprietary stick drive seems like a bigger issue. These are things that will go bad, likely prior to other components. For users who depend on their computers, I see these things as a more significant issue than the notion of upgrades.

 

[derbothaus]

Which processors would we be expecting in the new Mac Pro?

I'm going out on a limb and say XEON processors? Unless it's not a workstation grade Mac Pro. In that case another "out there" theory... Core i7! Maybe Dodeca Atom. You drop them in like the Connect Four game.

 

[deconstruct60]

Well, the current trend has been going on for a while actually.. the wait times between Mac Pro updates get longer and longer,

In part that is driven by the classic Xeon workstation class product cycle getting longer and longer.

Intel's current roadmap has the mainstream desktop/laptop Haswell models coming out before the Ivy Bridge Xeon models arrive. That means Haswell Xeon models probaby won't arrive before Broadwell (2014) is rolled out. Maybe even after 2015's Skylake (if they run into any problems/bugs in Xeon Haswell and don't run into any major problems/bugs in Skylake).

[url=http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/5789/screenshot20120821at518.png]Image[/URL]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The major problem with that approach is that 1/2008 release date for the 2008 Mac Pro. For those folks on a 5 year deprecation cycle are going to be itching to jump to new boxes (2008 + 5 => 2013 time to move). If Apple waits till August-Nov 2013 a very large fraction of those folks will be gone.

Similarity, any users that have run out of performance on a 2009 or 2010 model... they are leaving. The relatively minor speed bump of the 2012 isn't going to appeal to them. The 2012 has some traction against truely "old" (2008 and earlier) Mac Pros. 2009 models against 2012 is extremely lame because it is the exact same foundation/infrastructure.

The number of folks who "can't wait" is substantially increasing with every month. Waiting till August is almost trying overtly trying to implode the Mac Pro market base so small that it won't recover.

If Apple does a Sandy Bridge model in Jan-March 2013 and an Ivy Bridge model in Nov-2013-- March 2014 that would do far greater of repairing the Mac Pro market segment to healthy standing.

Apple would be "off" Intel's announce dates for new Xeon E5's .... but since there seems to be 3-7 months gap until they actually appear in volume it is actually safer for Apple just schedule to arrive "late" ... since Intel is likely to also.

What Apple needs to do is get back on a 12 (+/- 3) months regular schedule of Mac Pro updates. That way it is roughly predictable without explicit roadmaps. The frequency largely matches the other Macs.

but other than that I'm comfortable with the wait time. It gives me even more time to save up.

That's the issue. There is another very substantial number of folks who have already saved up and are ready to go.

In part, the 2012 release was an escape route for the 2006-2007 folks to move to. Waiting till 7-9 months after the majority of 2008 folks want to move is going to be a large blow.


Ivy Bridge Xeon E5 will drop into a Sandy Bridge board with minor firmware upgrades. It isn't like there is going to be a huge gap between motherboards in waiting for Ivy Bridge. It is the exact same core I/O support chipset.

 

[StephenCampbell]

In part that is driven by the classic Xeon workstation class product cycle getting longer and longer.

Intel's current roadmap has the mainstream desktop/laptop Haswell models coming out before the Ivy Bridge Xeon models arrive. That means Haswell Xeon models probaby won't arrive before Broadwell (2014) is rolled out. Maybe even after 2015's Skylake (if they run into any problems/bugs in Xeon Haswell and don't run into any major problems/bugs in Skylake).




The major problem with that approach is that 1/2008 release date for the 2008 Mac Pro. For those folks on a 5 year deprecation cycle are going to be itching to jump to new boxes (2008 + 5 => 2013 time to move). If Apple waits till August-Nov 2013 a very large fraction of those folks will be gone.

Similarity, any users that have run out of performance on a 2009 or 2010 model... they are leaving. The relatively minor speed bump of the 2012 isn't going to appeal to them. The 2012 has some traction against truely "old" (2008 and earlier) Mac Pros. 2009 models against 2012 is extremely lame because it is the exact same foundation/infrastructure.

The number of folks who "can't wait" is substantially increasing with every month. Waiting till August is almost trying overtly trying to implode the Mac Pro market base so small that it won't recover.

If Apple does a Sandy Bridge model in Jan-March 2013 and an Ivy Bridge model in Nov-2013-- March 2014 that would do far greater of repairing the Mac Pro market segment to healthy standing.

Apple would be "off" Intel's announce dates for new Xeon E5's .... but since there seems to be 3-7 months gap until they actually appear in volume it is actually safer for Apple just schedule to arrive "late" ... since Intel is likely to also.

What Apple needs to do is get back on a 12 (+/- 3) months regular schedule of Mac Pro updates. That way it is roughly predictable without explicit roadmaps. The frequency largely matches the other Macs.




That's the issue. There is another very substantial number of folks who have already saved up and are ready to go.

In part, the 2012 release was an escape route for the 2006-2007 folks to move to. Waiting till 7-9 months after the majority of 2008 folks want to move is going to be a large blow.


Ivy Bridge Xeon E5 will drop into a Sandy Bridge board with minor firmware upgrades. It isn't like there is going to be a huge gap between motherboards in waiting for Ivy Bridge. It is the exact same core I/O support chipset.

I already have my money saved up as well. I meant that if I'm given even more time, I'll simply save up more and possibly even be able to leave the majority of my current savings untouched by the time I buy the machine.

I agree with what you've said though. It makes sense. And it raises a question for me. If Apple were to release a Sandy Bridge Mac Pro in January - March.. given that I don't Need an upgrade yet, would you recommend I wait for the Ivy Bridge models? Will there be a substantial difference there?

 

[Mactrunk]

What amazes me is that Apple is now the biggest company in the world.

If they consider the Mac Pro to be something worthy of development, they could make something insanely great...

That much money could bend some fences and break some "rules"

The next MP could/should be a masterpiece.

I appeal to Mr. Cook.

 

[Lesser Evets]

What amazes me is that Apple is now the biggest company in the world.

If they consider the Mac Pro to be something worthy of development, they could make something insanely great...

That much money could bend some fences and break some "rules"

The next MP could/should be a masterpiece.

I appeal to Mr. Cook.

They could also shovel money in a hole and crap on it.

My point is that MacPros only make "so much" money for Apple while Apple's extreme wealth is based completely on the iPod-iPad-iPhone. Where do you think they'll focus most?

However, Apple has and will again put appropriate effort into the Pro-form computers to make packaging and engineering to last for a decade (or near there). I'd expect a revised and improved box and board in 2013. That will probably last for the rest of the decade or more for the general engineering of the MacPro.

Just don't expect anything too great. Apple never made super-cool-ultra-edgy Pro hardware. They always made good, solid, dependable stuff that lasts and works and has better design than most others.

 

[xgman]

It's hard to be optimistic when you read stuff like this:

"We're told that the emphasis on iPad display space is coming at the expense of Apple's Mac Pro and Mac mini computers, which are reportedly being removed from display entirely at these locations. Displays of iPods and associated headphones are also reportedly being trimmed back to release space for the iPad"

 

[StephenCampbell]

They could also shovel money in a hole and crap on it.

My point is that MacPros only make "so much" money for Apple while Apple's extreme wealth is based completely on the iPod-iPad-iPhone. Where do you think they'll focus most?

However, Apple has and will again put appropriate effort into the Pro-form computers to make packaging and engineering to last for a decade (or near there). I'd expect a revised and improved box and board in 2013. That will probably last for the rest of the decade or more for the general engineering of the MacPro.

Just don't expect anything too great. Apple never made super-cool-ultra-edgy Pro hardware. They always made good, solid, dependable stuff that lasts and works and has better design than most others.

With Apple working on a new model of the Mac Pro (i.e. not just an updated version of the current model), I think they will do as they have always done and pour all they've got into it. The first Mac Pro in August 2006 was a marvel of engineering, and those of us who still own them can testify that they've run like champs now for six years, and the only reason to think of upgrading is because they can't run anything above 10.7.

I think when Apple redesigns the Mac Pro (which they are doing as we speak), it will again be a launch into a new paradigm of performance and perfection, very much like the shift from the G4 tower to the G5, and then from the G5 to the first Mac Pro.

----------

It's hard to be optimistic when you read stuff like this:

"We're told that the emphasis on iPad display space is coming at the expense of Apple's Mac Pro and Mac mini computers, which are reportedly being removed from display entirely at these locations. Displays of iPods and associated headphones are also reportedly being trimmed back to release space for the iPad"

This is for their September 12th Media Event, where they are releasing a new iPad and focusing on the iPad.

Think of it this way. Maybe as a few more years roll by there will become a distinction within Apple between their different product lines that will essentially render them two companies in the eyes of the public. The loyal professional user base will still have the computers they need, but nobody else will really know they exist, just like it was when that was All Apple had.

And then they'll also have the iPads and iPhones and the trillions of dollars... but there's no reason that will affect that branch of their company that will remain as it always has.. out of sight or interest of the majority of people, but serving a loyal user base.

 

[deconstruct60]

It's hard to be optimistic when you read stuff like this:

"We're told that the emphasis on iPad display space is coming at the expense of Apple's Mac Pro and Mac mini computers, which are reportedly being removed from display entirely at these locations. Displays of iPods and associated headphones are also reportedly being trimmed back to release space for the iPad"

Why? It is only temporary during the intial rush. Likewise at Christmas when smaller stores bump the Mac Pro to make room for extra space to hold stock for iPod and phone purchases. ( instead of having to run to the back room, they just hand the device they just bought. That moves those folks out of the store to make room for the next one. When the store if overcrowded this is the highly preferable solution. )

Probably a temporary move for about 4-6 weeks until the "try before buy" crowd dies down to normal levels.


There is a fixed amount of space in the store. If you get a skewed distrbution of people who want to come to the store to try out the product they devote more space to it. Making people stare at a Mac Pro when they are in the store to play with the new iPad mini is not going much to improve sells of either Mac Pros or iPad minis.

Frankly, since there will be no Mac Pro until next year the number of folks looking to buy is just going to go down. They've invoked the Osborne effect upon the product. That is far worse impact on sales than product placement in the Apple display showcases.

The folks who should be tweaked are the Mac Mini folks. Removing the Mini's (and TB display ) is highly suggestive that there will not be a new Mini until the initial crush of "hands on" visitors dies down.

 

[StephenCampbell]

Why? It is only temporary during the intial rush. Likewise at Christmas when smaller stores bump the Mac Pro to make room for extra space to hold stock for iPod and phone purchases. ( instead of having to run to the back room, they just hand the device they just bought. That moves those folks out of the store to make room for the next one. When the store if overcrowded this is the highly preferable solution. )

Probably a temporary move for about 4-6 weeks until the "try before buy" crowd dies down to normal levels.


There is a fixed amount of space in the store. If you get a skewed distrbution of people who want to come to the store to try out the product they devote more space to it. Making people stare at a Mac Pro when they are in the store to play with the new iPad mini is not going much to improve sells of either Mac Pros or iPad minis.

Frankly, since there will be no Mac Pro until next year the number of folks looking to buy is just going to go down. They've invoked the Osborne effect upon the product. That is far worse impact on sales than product placement in the Apple display showcases.

The folks who should be tweaked are the Mac Mini folks. Removing the Mini's (and TB display ) is highly suggestive that there will not be a new Mini until the initial crush of "hands on" visitors dies down.

Exactly. And to be perfectly realistic, there is hardly even a need for Mac Pros to ever have a display in the Apple Stores. I mean, there should be one machine set up, no doubt, so that pros can try it out, but essentially those who want a Mac Pro know that they don't want anything else, and those who don't know if they need a Mac Pro don't need it. So why a big representation in the stores? They can have the item in their inventory for those who want it... but it would be close to useless to advertise the Mac Pro to the average Apple Store customer who walks in.

 

[twietee]

Exactly. And to be perfectly realistic, there is hardly even a need for Mac Pros to ever have a display in the Apple Stores. I mean, there should be one machine set up, no doubt, so that pros can try it out, but essentially those who want a Mac Pro know that they don't want anything else, and those who don't know if they need a Mac Pro don't need it. So why a big representation in the stores? They can have the item in their inventory for those who want it... but it would be close to useless to advertise the Mac Pro to the average Apple Store customer who walks in.

This. Still, it's not so easy to be otimistic these days.

 

[StephenCampbell]

Well, I have faith in Apple.