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Looking ahead on the 2010 iMac

Eidorian said:
There's an OpenCL limit message now? I'd sure love to see it. This is hilarious.
Click to expand...

Yes Adobe's not playing nice. No 64Bit and now this.

1nO9


These are small 4K files on my 13", when I use a 24" it's down to a 7 file limit. Cards with 512MB+ don't seem to have this limit.
 
shanmugam said:
i think price is not a real issue here

At $196 i5-750 Quad Core CPU possible at $1499 machine if not at $1199 machine.

two factors deciding what goes on 21.5"
  • Heat and thermal problems
  • apple differentiation between products

and another note prices from intel differs on common upgrade cycle CPUs versus EOLed CPUs. Intel is first one wants to see EOLed CPUs go away and promote the new one. They will be happy to see customers to pickup i5/i7s than a Core 2 Quads.
Click to expand...

With a company as big as Apple and intel, I agree with you price will probably not be a issue. Heat and thermal issues in the new processors are not really a issue since the current Core 2 Duo's give off more heat than the some of the new Quads and the i5 and i7's.

They can easily go Quad for the entire lineup as they went with
Core 2 duo for most of the Aluminum imac's lifespan.

The main issue is defiantly the integrated IGP and it being on the processor die. Apple doesn't want a integrated IGP from intel. And Intel is forcing it upon manufactures. Snow Leopard is built around Open CL. Unless Intel gives Apple a special IGP less Arrandale or Clarksdale they are not going to use those chips unless they use a discreet card in the entire lineup. They are not going to abandon Open CL regardless of any processor offering from Intel.

The intergrated IGP in the new i5's and i7's will be the determining factor in their lineup going forward.
NVIDIA isn't going anywhere. Since Apple is doing business with NVIDIA and using their IGP and not Intels's someone has to budge.

http://www.slashgear.com/nvidia-mcp89-and-mcp99-ion-successors-headed-to-apple-in-q1-2010-1452360/
http://www.slashgear.com/apple-reject-arrandale-request-non-gpu-mobile-core-i5-i7-chips-0765327/
 
justit said:
Yes Adobe's not playing nice. No 64Bit and now this.

These are small 4K files on my 13", when I use a 24" it's down to a 7 file limit. Cards with 512MB+ don't seem to have this limit.
Click to expand...
Do you have the same problem on your 13"? It also says OpenGL.
 
Eidorian said:
Do you have the same problem on your 13"? It also says OpenGL.
Click to expand...

Both MBP and Mac Pro, I'd like to know if this is an artificial ceiling from Adobe or if there is a failure in OSX not being able to swap system RAM for GPU RAM.
 
iamthedudeman said:
With a company as big as Apple and intel, I agree with you price will probably not be a issue. Heat and thermal issues in the new processors are not really a issue since the current Core 2 Duo's give off more heat than the some of the new Quads and the i5 and i7's.

They can easily go Quad for the entire lineup as they went with
Core 2 duo for most of the Aluminum imac's lifespan.

The main issue is defiantly the integrated IGP and it being on the processor die. Apple doesn't want a integrated IGP from intel. And Intel is forcing it upon manufactures. Snow Leopard is built around Open CL. Unless Intel gives Apple a special IGP less Arrandale or Clarksdale they are not going to use those chips unless they use a discreet card in the entire lineup. They are not going to abandon Open CL regardless of any processor offering from Intel.

The intergrated IGP in the new i5's and i7's will be the determining factor in their lineup going forward.
NVIDIA isn't going anywhere. Since Apple is doing business with NVIDIA and using their IGP and not Intels's someone has to budge.

http://www.slashgear.com/nvidia-mcp89-and-mcp99-ion-successors-headed-to-apple-in-q1-2010-1452360/
http://www.slashgear.com/apple-reject-arrandale-request-non-gpu-mobile-core-i5-i7-chips-0765327/
Click to expand...

I would think Apple shouldn't be blocking Intel's innovations. Innovation is King right? Go with the flow and all!
 
justit said:
Both MBP and Mac Pro, I'd like to know if this is an artificial ceiling from Adobe or if there is a failure in OSX not being able to swap system RAM for GPU RAM.
Click to expand...
It might be a limitation of what can be loaded into Video RAM before you have to hop down to system RAM. What does the Performance pane say about OpenGL?
 
I have to say, i'm holding out for a quad 21" iMac, i was actually expecting quads across the range with the last revision.

the 27" is sadly too big for me.
 
2010 iMac... I wouldn't expect updates until WWDC, maybe even longer than that.

IMHO the current iMac lineup is great and the 27" iMac possibly the most reasonably priced computer Apple has ever made. Apple has really started to set their hardware apart from the PC crowd again, not just in terms of design but also technically. First with the current MBP line (some of the best notebook displays on the market + incredible battery life) and now also with the iMacs (there are just a hand full of displays on the market that can match the 27" iMac's resolution and I can only find 4 that cost less than a 27" iMac - any they come without a computer included).

Don't know what will happen to the Core2 models in future ... we'll probably see which direction Apple is going with the next MBPs. All they can do to the Core i5/i7 models is some speed bumps until Sandy bridge comes out (probably in 2011). The only thing that will probably change is the dedicated graphics cards since the successor to the Mobility Radeon 4000 series is going to be released in Q1/2010. Well, at least I hope they will switch over to either the Radeon 5000 or GeForce 300 series. Apple has always been very slow with graphics updates.

Pachang said:
It can play it. But not at a resolution that does the beautiful 27" panel justice.
Click to expand...
AFAIR someone wrote that COD is playable at ~40fps on the 27" iMac in another thread.
If the card is too slow, you can always go to 720p (1280x720) resolution which should theoretically interpolate nicely (because it's simply factor-2) and it's just 1/4th the amount of pixels.

justit said:
Yes Adobe's not playing nice. No 64Bit and now this.

These are small 4K files on my 13", when I use a 24" it's down to a 7 file limit. Cards with 512MB+ don't seem to have this limit.
Click to expand...
I'm not a big fan of Adobe but this has nothing to do with playing nice, just with limited memory resources. The fault is clearly on Apple's side here.
But besides that: It's not stopping you from opening new windows, it just disables OpenGL acceleration on them making things a bit slower but it shouldn't be a big deal.

justit said:
Open more than 7 files in PS and you'll get an OpenCL limit message. The 256MB of video ram just doesn't cut it.
Click to expand...
Graphics cards always were the weak point of Apple's hardware. The 9400M is okay for entry-level models but it should be allowed to use more memory. As for their discrete GPUs: They're all mediocre at best. The 4850 is quite good but they should have released this card in an iMac when it was new, not 2 months before it's successor comes out. And 512mb in the high-end iMac...
Of course, not many customers need much more graphics performance, so why not make a BTO option for a higher-end graphics card? AFAIK the cards are socketed anyway...

ArrowSmith said:
I would think Apple shouldn't be blocking Intel's innovations. Innovation is King right? Go with the flow and all!
Click to expand...
You're kidding, right? There's nothing innovative about Intel's integrated graphics chips. The Arrandale package is just Intel's way of pushing nVidia and ATI out of the market. Apple might find a way around using Intel's IGP but most notebook makers won't put much effort into this. They'll just get the cheap all-in-one-package, no matter if it's slower than everything nVidia and ATI have to offer.
 
Yeah that's definitely what I thought it would say. You can only hold so much in the GPU's VRAM. 256 MB of VRAM is pathetic from Apple when even 4350/GT220 can fly by with 1 GB. They're not powerful GPUs but you have the address space.
 
There isn't any real reason apple can't spring for more GPU memory, they should at least double the memory available on the next update, anything else will be insulting.
 
ArrowSmith said:
I would think Apple shouldn't be blocking Intel's innovations. Innovation is King right? Go with the flow and all!
Click to expand...

Innovation? I wouldn't call Intel's IGP innovation. Nvidia's IGP is far superior. All intel is doing is forcing Nvidia out and the FCC is looking into the matter. It will be a mess for a year or more until Intel and Nvidia figures this out.

Apple has a dilemma on their hands. Will they go all i5 and i7 nehalms across the entire line and discreet graphics on all models, or will they go with i5 and i7's in the 27's and have Quad core 2's on the 21.5s.

I see a refresh within the next three months or shorter. No doubt.
 
it is officially 2010 :D

iMac 21.5" bound dual core i5s will be released in Jan 7th, another 6 days we will know the performance compared to Core 2 Duos...
 
Small question. Does Apple update their iMac's every year? I mean, there difference between whole new models and upgrades right? When did the model before the new iMac come out? And when can we expect the upgrades, and when can we expect a new model?

Thanks
 
Editor- said:
Small question. Does Apple update their iMac's every year? I mean, there difference between whole new models and upgrades right? When did the model before the new iMac come out? And when can we expect the upgrades, and when can we expect a new model?

Thanks
Click to expand...
Apple tends to update the iMac twice a year. A spring and fall update have been the most common over the years.
 
Editor- said:
Small question. Does Apple update their iMac's every year? I mean, there difference between whole new models and upgrades right? When did the model before the new iMac come out? And when can we expect the upgrades, and when can we expect a new model?

Thanks
Click to expand...

see http://guides.macrumors.com/iMac_Buyer's_Guide for release history.
Since iMacs were pretty broken this time around it may mean they will release them quicker.
 
Core i3 -540 is the CPU mostly will goto 21.5" $1199 and $1499 models in the next 21.5" upgrade in April to June time frame.

Dual Core i5s are expensive and it is very close to Core i5 750.
 
Lynnfield still appears to be king of the $180-200 market even without Hyperthreading.

The Core i5 6xx line is a bit of a let down to be honest. Core i3 is a better deal. It's tough against AMD's Athlon II X4 though. Clarkdale looks like a fine business processor with the AES hardware and the decent IGP. The jury is out on Mini-ITX HTPC with Clarkdale though. Intel really committed to making HD playback work this time around but beyond that is asking too much.
 
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