Looks like the end of the road for mac pro

[linuxcooldude]

No, it was a lousy deal. You got stuck with 2 GPUs whether you needed them or not, and they were over-hyped for most people's usage, you needed an expensive external housing for supplemental storage, you had the Apple Tax on RAM and the SSD Array, and the 12-core option had very disappointing single core performance.

In contrast, my oMP 12 core 3.46GHz with much more storage, better single GPU performance, better single core performance, very good 12-core performance and more RAM, cost less than 5 grand, that's a good value.

Apple came out with a pretty good pricing as far as configuration. If you don't need a powerful GPU choose the D300 with more cores, Or more powerful GPU's with less cores or somewhere in between.

Single core performance on the 12 core...not much can be done with that. It affects nearly all processors. More cores you have, the lower the clock speed and vice versa. Yeah, I know. Dual 6 cores, but more fans/power/size would be affected.

 

[lowendlinux]

The vast bulk of corporate PC purchases are POS HP/Dell machines to run MS Office, email and whatever internal apps run through a browser. Where I'm currently working it's mainly mix of 13" Dell i7 laptops with docking stations and 1080 monitors. They buy them by the truckload and use them until the keyboard or trackpad stops working. When they need arises for something more powerful, you will find it, but for the most part its laptops and iPads.

My PC is fist gen i3 and works fine for MS office and SharePoint more would be overkill my Mac Pro is what I do my actually work on. Mac's are not allowed on the network and since most of the SW I use has pAple licences it's just easier to use the PC for connectivity and the Mac for the rest. If I'm still around when the time comes to start changing out SW I'll rebuy with PC licenses so I can move to one computer to simplify my life.

 

[Ethosik]

Guys, unless Apple allows Windows to build iOS apps natively, there is NO WAY OS X systems will go away. Where would the developers go then? It would be suicide for Apple.

 

[Umbongo]

Apple came out with a pretty good pricing as far as configuration. If you don't need a powerful GPU choose the D300 with more cores, Or more powerful GPU's with less cores or somewhere in between.

Single core performance on the 12 core...not much can be done with that. It affects nearly all processors. More cores you have, the lower the clock speed and vice versa. Yeah, I know. Dual 6 cores, but more fans/power/size would be affected.

Come on dude (no pun), they were selling a $300 CPU and two sub $300 GPUs for $3,000. It wasn't competitive against the same performance you could get elsewhere, just wasn't terrible compared to the old ones at full retail price or Apple's other products.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

I will give you the benefit of what I'm seeing as a freelancer in NYC. I've worked in almost the large banks/financial houses, most major ad agencies and am in and out of prepress/output places. As I said above, the vast majority of corporate PC purchases are for machines to run Office, Outlook and whatever internal apps run through a browser. For this you don't need anything more powerful than a cheap i5 laptop. Give the desk a docking station and an external monitor and you're set.

When you find a need for more powerful machines, the companies will but them. But easily 85% of the people working never need anything outside of Office and Outlook. Depending on what you do, you might not even need a laptop. I'm seeing more and more senior people, who spend most of their time answering email and massaging clients, use an iPad for almost everything.

It's the same where I'm working now. Several floors of 13" Dell i7 laptops, with a smattering if MacBook Airs, and one part of one floor with all the powerful machines. The handful of guys we have looking into VR have nicely spec'd out ASUS towers with i7-5x six-core processors and 980s. The retouchers have cMPs. The programmers have MacBook Pros. They run OS X, and Windows through VMWare. The RIPS run off of OEM Windows machines. The designers are all on MacBook Pros, and the production people are on Mac Minis, except for one guy who refuses to give up his slowly dying cMP. And it's the same in the several global offices of the larger company. The video and motion graphics people, obviously, have all the best toys, but there are nine of ten of them in the entire company, and they are supported by teams of people answering emails and using Excel to forecast.

So while I haven't done a survey, I feel pretty confident in saying that. Personally, to me, it's a little terrifying how quickly American Business would grind to a halt without Powerpoint.

I guess what I don't understand is, a low performance desktop is cheaper than a low performance laptop that is dockable, plus the dock, plus the monitor, mouse and keyboard. Everyone assumes when you say "desktop" you mean a 6-core beast with huge storage capabilities. Laptops, to me and my clients, mean portability. Frequent travelers that also work in the office. Dock, undock, go.

If you say people only need a low powered CPU to run Office, email and web apps, why are they buying more expensive laptop configurations when a desktop will be cheaper, last longer, and (in most cases) can be upgraded?

 

[throAU]

It's been done. They replaced the Xserve RAID with an officially blessed third party replacement they directly marketed.

The Xserve never really was a mac product.

 

[jweinraub]

@ Moonshot

I agree. If Apple can't make money from a product, they are not afraid to kill it. I don't like the situation, but I can't really blame them. They need to make money and they have to answer to share holders.

I'm not sure it will ever happen, but it would be fun to see the rebirth of Mac clones.

Since when did Apple care about those things? Didn't Tim or Steve say they have money to burn and they will burn it to make a great product people want/need. While MP isn't what it used to be, regardless of form-factor/cool-factorness, and the fact it looks like a rubbish bin made no sense. The lack of upgradeability in any of the core computer markets is really upsetting. While I am old enough to know about their tinkering past it is upsetting that if I wanted to change my battery in my mbp or upgrade the hard drive I need to use proprietary equipment to do the said upgrade never mind the fact the RAM is soldered on.

This really bothers me. They are closing down the hardware so much I can't even make the equipment have a future. Even changing the dvd drive if it were to go bad on a dell i pull it out, i dont even need to open it.

All to save 0.2 mm and make it prettier? I would gladly sacrifice the thinness if I can have a larger battery, a camera flush to the endge on my phone for example. The new Apple isnt what it used to be and yes i know that apple almost went out of business but treating your customers like moronic children is a pity and shameful to be quite honest and i do own a significant amount of shares of AAPL anyway!

this really isnt about Tim Cook being in charge either the cool factor from why i originally liked apple but the part why i never liked them as a child is the same reason why i am starting not to like them now and that is the dumbing down of everything to it is a seamless user experience, i get that, but the lack of ability to allowing me to do advanced things even if it voids the warranty so be it, allow me to tinker away!

 

[navaira]

I am surprised they didn't make the logical step of making El Capitan way more resource hogging than Yosemite, thus forcing people with pre-2012 computers to upgrade...

 

[Derived]

No, it was a lousy deal. You got stuck with 2 GPUs whether you needed them or not, and they were over-hyped for most people's usage, you needed an expensive external housing for supplemental storage, you had the Apple Tax on RAM and the SSD Array, and the 12-core option had very disappointing single core performance.

In contrast, my oMP 12 core 3.46GHz with much more storage, better single GPU performance, better single core performance, very good 12-core performance and more RAM, cost less than 5 grand, that's a good value.

This comment doesn't even make sense..."over-hyped for most people's usage" - what does that even mean? What does that have to do with its pricing? Good storage is expensive, internal or external. Internal RAID cards aren't cheap either, you know. Apple RAM has always been expensive, this is a non-point for this machine or any other, as you can always buy third-party. There's one SSD, and frankly there's only recently been a way to get something like it from anyone else. And yes, it's still expensive. Large, cutting edge, fast PCIE SSD storage is expensive. Obviously the one with the lowest clock speed has the lowest single-core performance, that's nothing new since multi-core CPUs were invented.

 

[dpny]

Laptops, to me and my clients, mean portability. Frequent travelers that also work in the office.

Because portability is the new norm. You can take your laptop to the five or six meetings a day you're involved with. You can take your laptop with you so you're available on the weekends and on vacation, which is now expected behavior. Last week we had a guy updating files during his band's set break.

 

[Derived]

Come on dude (no pun), they were selling a $300 CPU and two sub $300 GPUs for $3,000. It wasn't competitive against the same performance you could get elsewhere, just wasn't terrible compared to the old ones at full retail price or Apple's other products.

This is simply false, they were workstation GPUs. Newsflash, workstation GPUs are just slightly tweaked standard GPUs, have been for a while. They're not worth the extra money, unless you need them. Then you have no choice. Nvidia and AMD know this, and that's why they can ask what they do for workstation GPUs. You sound like one of those guys that thinks comparing a pro workstation to an i7 gaming computer with a 950Ti, non-ECC RAM, a SATA SSD and a cheap case filled with cheap, loud fans is somehow valid. Not the same thing at all.

And if you are, your issue is with all workstations, not Apple. Apple uses AMD GPUs, Intel CPUs, and Samsung SSDs. Just like everyone else.

 

[linuxcooldude]

Come on dude (no pun), they were selling a $300 CPU and two sub $300 GPUs for $3,000. It wasn't competitive against the same performance you could get elsewhere, just wasn't terrible compared to the old ones at full retail price or Apple's other products.

As Derived mentioned, Apple uses workstation parts in its Mac Pro...Xeons...AMD Fire pro....ECC Memory. Same as most PC workstations that come with a higher price tag. So come on, stop using consumer prices in a workstation computer.

 

[Larry-K]

This comment doesn't even make sense..."over-hyped for most people's usage" - what does that even mean? What does that have to do with its pricing? Good storage is expensive, internal or external. Internal RAID cards aren't cheap either, you know. Apple RAM has always been expensive, this is a non-point for this machine or any other, as you can always buy third-party. There's one SSD, and frankly there's only recently been a way to get something like it from anyone else. And yes, it's still expensive. Large, cutting edge, fast PCIE SSD storage is expensive. Obviously the one with the lowest clock speed has the lowest single-core performance, that's nothing new since multi-core CPUs were invented.

That means the GPUs were not the conquering heroes thay were touted as, and for most people, using most Apps that don't benefit from 2 GPUs, they were a waste of money, since you're forced to buy 2 whether you need them or not.

How about this radical concept: one good GPU, preferably not from AMD.

I'm comparing it to a oMP using a PCIe SSD RAID, and the oMP with an extra 8TB of storage was still half as much.

Funny, I'm not hamstrung by bad single core performance on my oMP, guess that issue doesn't exist when "Form follows Function".

It's a great machine if you're going to run Final Cut or Mari all day, and you want to flush $5K down the toilet because you want something cute on your desk, and don't mind Thunderbolt cables all over the place.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

As Derived mentioned, Apple uses workstation parts in its Mac Pro...Xeons...AMD Fire pro. Same as most PC workstations that come with a higher price tag. So come on, stop using consumer prices in a workstation computer.

The argument from creative PC and Mac users for many years is that they don't need a Xeon or ECC memory or a GPU with enhanced Z buffer and double precision for most creative work. They just want a system that has enough processing power and enough upgradability so they don't end up with a **** computer after only two years. Or even an office full of **** computers.

 

[linuxcooldude]

The argument from creative PC and Mac users for many years is that they don't need a Xeon or ECC memory or a GPU with enhanced Z buffer and double precision for most creative work. They just want a system that has enough processing power and enough upgradability so they don't end up with a **** computer after only two years. Or even an office full of **** computers.

Thats why many opt for the iMac instead of the Mac Pro. Some people still need the workstation class hardware in their line of work.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Thats why many opt for the iMac instead of the Mac Pro. Some people still need the workstation class hardware in their line of work.

This is the typical response but iMacs are also ****. If anyone says they can colour grade or do proofs on one at the very top level then they are deluding themselves. Then there's the mobile GPU. We don't need workstation graphics but we certainly don't want some overheating laptop graphics. We don't need to continue talking about that machine.

 

[goMac]

Everyone complained with the cMP that they wanted a dual GPU machine. Now with the nMP everyone is complaining they want a single GPU machine...

 

[lowendlinux]

People complain about a lot of stuff..

FirePro and Quadro are nice in Windows where you can get an optimized driver for the SW your using. Mac and Linux have a unified driver on Linux I can give nVidia or AMD a call with the Mac I can't.

 

[tuxon86]

Everyone complained with the cMP that they wanted a dual GPU machine. Now with the nMP everyone is complaining they want a single GPU machine...

You could have a dual gpu oMP if you NEEDED to. You were not oblidge to buy two if you only needed one.

 

[OG_Macintosh]

That means the GPUs were not the conquering heroes thay were touted as, and for most people, using most Apps that don't benefit from 2 GPUs, they were a waste of money, since you're forced to buy 2 whether you need them or not.

How about this radical concept: one good GPU, preferably not from AMD.

I'm comparing it to a oMP using a PCIe SSD RAID, and the oMP with an extra 8TB of storage was still half as much.

Funny, I'm not hamstrung by bad single core performance on my oMP, guess that issue doesn't exist when "Form follows Function".

It's a great machine if you're going to run Final Cut or Mari all day, and you want to flush $5K down the toilet because you want something cute on your desk, and don't mind Thunderbolt cables all over the place.

I just woke up from a coma, so bear with me...

Is Apple Inc. the only computer hardware maker left? What year is it? You can't go buy a computer from another manufacturer or pieces and parts and put together what you want? OMG, Apple has a monopoly on the market now?!?!

Wow, just, wow! How times change...

 

[Larry-K]

You could have a dual gpu oMP if you NEEDED to. You were not oblidge to buy two if you only needed one.

Yes, I think people wanted a choice.

 

[linuxcooldude]

Yes, I think people wanted a choice.

Apple always had a more limited choice and will continue to have a limited choice. We bring that up now? People have the choice to go PC if paying for dual GPU is an issue for them.

 

[Larry-K]

Apple always had a more limited choice and will continue to have a limited choice. We bring that up now? People have the choice to go PC if paying for dual GPU is an issue for them.

Wow, I guess that 1984 ad didn't sink in.

Just for the record, PCs have way better GPU choices than Macs do.

 

[Larry-K]

I just woke up from a coma, so bear with me...

Is Apple Inc. the only computer hardware maker left? What year is it? You can't go buy a computer from another manufacturer or pieces and parts and put together what you want? OMG, Apple has a monopoly on the market now?!?!

Wow, just, wow! How times change...

It's just if you want to use OSX, of course one can always build a Hackintosh or just go with Windows.

Neither of those would seem to be optimal choices, but that may just be all Apple leaves us.

 

[OG_Macintosh]

It's just if you want to use OSX, of course one can always build a Hackintosh or just go with Windows.

Neither of those would seem to be optimal choices, but that may just be all Apple leaves us.

Thank you for your cogent response to my tongue-in-cheek reply. Sometimes I think a lot of folks here need to lighten up. We all would like to think that Apple is going to respond to what we would mostly like to see on our desks, but that just doesn't seem to be the direction they are headed in. But it's not going to be the end of the world. It's all adaptation, unfortunate as it may be.