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kc9hzn

macrumors 68000
Jun 18, 2020
1,824
2,193
iPad OS is still crippled by developers who remain focused on other platforms. This may change, but there it is. Things move along quickly, and after today I imagine there's some nervousness. Mac OS and iPad OS need to merge. Simple as that.
While that may be true, merging with macOS wouldn’t necessarily fix that, imagine a horror scenario where existing Mac apps become Catalyst style apps. In fact, the M1 chip and Pro apps from Apple might be just the kick in the rear these developers need to take the iPad more seriously.
 

whtrbt7

macrumors 65816
Jun 8, 2011
1,015
73
Thunderbolt 3? M1 is a small spec bump but the hardware upgrade to Thunderbolt 3 would be a big change. Is it confirmed that it is Thunderbolt 3? 40GBps is FAST.
 

kc9hzn

macrumors 68000
Jun 18, 2020
1,824
2,193
Thunderbolt 3? M1 is a small spec bump but the hardware upgrade to Thunderbolt 3 would be a big change. Is it confirmed that it is Thunderbolt 3? 40GBps is FAST.
If it’s using a Type C connector (which it is, USB 4), it would have to be Thunderbolt 3, 2 and 1 used the Mini DisplayPort connector.
 

Yoms

macrumors 6502
Jun 1, 2016
410
268
So the new 12.9 looks great, hardware wise. M1, mini-LED, thunderbolt.

But why? Everything is still limited by iPadOS. No new pro app announcements. No new capabilities. Basically this iPad can do everything the 2020 iPad Pro 12.9 does, but slightly faster and brighter.

Only reason I would upgrade is if someone could find a way to virtualize macOS and I could run Xcode there, while still using iPadOS for everything else...
As some have already commented, this was a hardware-centric event. For software-related improvement, wait for the WWDC announcements, i.e. iPadOS 15.

That said, I entirely agree with you. There's already something great: Thunderbolt/USB4 allowing for better external display support, because I guess (being a dev myself) that you don't plan on displaying Xcode on the iPad, but on a bigger external display.

We indeed need more pro features in iPadOS (a true Terminal even if sand-boxed, pro apps, Time Machine, etc.) or dual boot macOS (would be even better, but I'm rather skeptical - why would you even buy a laptop then? Apple wants you to buy both)
 

Martius

macrumors 6502a
Jul 12, 2008
561
1,807
Prague, CZ
I think dual boot / "macOS iPad edition" (= iPad OS closer to macOS than to iOS) is gonna be "THE feature" that is gonna differentiate iPad Pros from the other iPads, so they have added the M1 processor. I know it's basically the same as the A-processors (more powerful and rebranded), but they could just use the A-processor... I think M1 means something and that something is related to macOS.
 
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rumz

macrumors 65816
Feb 11, 2006
1,226
635
Utah
So the new 12.9 looks great, hardware wise. M1, mini-LED, thunderbolt.

But why? Everything is still limited by iPadOS. No new pro app announcements. No new capabilities. Basically this iPad can do everything the 2020 iPad Pro 12.9 does, but slightly faster and brighter.

Only reason I would upgrade is if someone could find a way to virtualize macOS and I could run Xcode there, while still using iPadOS for everything else...
I think that the simplest answer to this question is a matter of practicality for Apple: it allows Apple to move the iPad Pro line forward without having to develop / manage yet another SOC or SOC variant. No more A10x, A12x, A14x to accommodate the Pro line— they are clearly leveraging the same parts that go in Mac Mini, MacBook Air, iMac, base MacBook Pro, etc. Especially if the M1 was already very similar to what an A14x would have been.

And that’s purely from a hardware development perspective— we’ll have to wait and see exactly what advantages come from this in terms of future software updates. (Certainly the software is what could really boost the iPad Pro’s appeal to more people).

We only saw an AX series chip for iPad Pro every other generation, probably wasn’t enough return on investment to make those specialized chips on an annual basis. Of course it remains to be seen what Apple’s cadence will be for the M series, so maybe nothing will change in that regard, and perhaps Apple has just shifted from the AX series to making the M series... though certainly they have to have some heavier duty stuff coming for the higher-end “Pro” Mac lineup.
 

loybond

macrumors 6502a
Aug 1, 2010
856
631
The True North, Strong and Free
Define workarounds. iPadOS worked well for me as a productivity device even three revisions ago, so I legitimately don’t understand when people describe it as hampered. The way I see it, the only difference is that you can’t do the same things in exactly the same ways. But that’s true of Mac vs Windows vs Linux vs Android. What kind of workflows are you trying to do that require workarounds, and what kinds of workarounds are you doing? I genuinely want to know.
There's many people that can make the iPad in its current state work for them. But let's be honest, it does require a commitment to the idea at a minimum. Workarounds are needed everywhere, if they exist at all. There's just always multiple steps, and that's if you get there at all.

The Files app is a huge problem. Recently I came across a fairly normal zip file that it simply wouldn't decompress, not even in other "file browser" apps, but worked just fine on my M1 MBA. There is no "disk utility," so you can't format drives, or rename extensions. You can't easily open files in certain apps (or associate them) like on a Mac or Windows. Downloading a file in Slack means you go from the Slack app to the browser within the Slack app, to Safari to download your file reliably. Most apps can't directly work off files on external drives. AFAIK Lumafusion still can't work off external hard drives, despite a fast enough USB-C interface.

The browser got a bit of an upgrade with the desktop mode a little while back, and Google's web services work better, but many things still don't. E.g. moving a block with Elementor/Wordpress doesn't work at all with touch, and works about 25% of the time with a magic trackpad. Is it Safari? Is the trackpad precision not enough? Who knows, but it means that certain things just don't work right now. The browser essentially needs to be a full desktop browser, no asterisks.

Photoshop and Illustrator are not at feature parity with their desktop counterparts. Etc. etc. I feel like most of these things are simple fixes that only need the decision to make iPadOS a real computer OS.
 

jeremiah256

macrumors 65816
Aug 2, 2008
1,444
1,169
Southern California
As some have already commented, this was a hardware-centric event. For software-related improvement, wait for the WWDC announcements, i.e. iPadOS 15.

That said, I entirely agree with you. There's already something great: Thunderbolt/USB4 allowing for better external display support, because I guess (being a dev myself) that you don't plan on displaying Xcode on the iPad, but on a bigger external display.

We indeed need more pro features in iPadOS (a true Terminal even if sand-boxed, pro apps, Time Machine, etc.) or dual boot macOS (would be even better, but I'm rather skeptical - why would you even buy a laptop then? Apple wants you to buy both)
That doesn’t mean they’re not going to offer multiple form factors to customers. There are plenty of people who would still prefer a clamshell computer over a tablet computer. Just as some people prefer desktops.
 

kc9hzn

macrumors 68000
Jun 18, 2020
1,824
2,193
There's many people that can make the iPad in its current state work for them. But let's be honest, it does require a commitment to the idea at a minimum. Workarounds are needed everywhere, if they exist at all. There's just always multiple steps, and that's if you get there at all.

The Files app is a huge problem. Recently I came across a fairly normal zip file that it simply wouldn't decompress, not even in other "file browser" apps, but worked just fine on my M1 MBA. There is no "disk utility," so you can't format drives, or rename extensions. You can't easily open files in certain apps (or associate them) like on a Mac or Windows. Downloading a file in Slack means you go from the Slack app to the browser within the Slack app, to Safari to download your file reliably. Most apps can't directly work off files on external drives. AFAIK Lumafusion still can't work off external hard drives, despite a fast enough USB-C interface.

The browser got a bit of an upgrade with the desktop mode a little while back, and Google's web services work better, but many things still don't. E.g. moving a block with Elementor/Wordpress doesn't work at all with touch, and works about 25% of the time with a magic trackpad. Is it Safari? Is the trackpad precision not enough? Who knows, but it means that certain things just don't work right now. The browser essentially needs to be a full desktop browser, no asterisks.

Photoshop and Illustrator are not at feature parity with their desktop counterparts. Etc. etc. I feel like most of these things are simple fixes that only need the decision to make iPadOS a real computer OS.
Files app works far better for me than the old workarounds, but I can see how it would feel limited to someone else. Did you throw that ZIP file at Archives? It’s an iOS port of The Unarchiver, which is probably the best decompression app on the Mac. I’m guessing, though, that most of the third party apps use the system API for compressing and uncompressing files, and a bug in the system library caused your issue.

As for the website issues, I’d be more inclined to blame the web developers of those services than Safari. It’s been a problem for years of web developers browser or screen sniffing and throwing flashy but bloated or feature restricted websites at iPads, when the only thing it really couldn’t do were mouse-hover events.

Third party developers pushing out crippled iPad versions has also been an issue for years (one especially highlighted since the iPad Pro was released).
 

cpnotebook80

macrumors 65816
Feb 4, 2007
1,228
550
Toronto
I have handed my old ipads - even 1st gen down to my elderly parents to make use of. While the older generations from ipad 1-3 are not relevant here, in comparison to the ipads from the last 3-4 years, I find the old ipads starting to get limited in the app store as they do not work on the older ios versions eg. even youtube app not supporting on some the older ipads, except the browser. My parents do tell me how slow the ipads are but what you expect. Just dont open multiple apps! or close all of them and use one!

I was going to give them my 2017 ipad pro 12.9 atleast to my mom to use, as i found the storage on mine limiting and using it for school and compositions on my keyboards was giving me performance issues, and i was waiting for a new ipad pro. So will see in 2 days if I can get the base version maybe. I already have the m1 mbp which I like. Having to use a similar powerful ipad for my piano keyboard and course work will be good enough. esp when multitasking on teams chat and trying to do some work on laptop, having that extra screen will be good.Just have to get atleast 512gb maybe this time around.
 
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ruka.snow

macrumors 68000
Jun 6, 2017
1,886
5,182
Scotland
I always suspected the M1 chip was built for iPad Pro first and then they discovered it was good enough for desktops too after having Intel bugger up. As for the OP, the new beefy iPad Pro is going to be great for dumping RAW files and editing them right there and the with the Pencil. It also seems we can use it as a monitor/recorder for a real camera so that will mean I don't need a ATOMOS with me.
 

Techwatcher

macrumors 6502a
Sep 21, 2013
914
2,257
NYC
That doesn’t mean they’re not going to offer multiple form factors to customers. There are plenty of people who would still prefer a clamshell computer over a tablet computer. Just as some people prefer desktops.
Exactly. It’s like Microsoft. Surface Pro, Surface Book, and Surface Laptop have the exact same OS, yet people still opt for one or the other. The world isn’t that black and white.
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
20,395
23,899
Singapore
iPad OS is still crippled by developers who remain focused on other platforms. This may change, but there it is. Things move along quickly, and after today I imagine there's some nervousness. Mac OS and iPad OS need to merge. Simple as that.

What is probably more like is that the ipad will get a version of macOS optimised for touch. Rather than simply run macOS directly. That’s what doomed windows 10.
 

bpd115

macrumors 6502a
Feb 4, 2003
823
87
Pennsylvania
Yeah I’m in a wait and see holding pattern. My desktop is a 6 core i7 mini. I have the 2018 iPad Pro and and an M1 Air.

my thought was to wait for a next gen M desktop....

but now if everything is running the same hardware, I don’t see the need in paying for 3 devices. It’s odd at the moment...like I want to dock my iPad to a monitor and external keyboard and mouse and have it run MacOS now...
 
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Surne

macrumors member
Sep 27, 2020
76
57
I'm extremely disappointed they didn't announce an ipad that runs MacOS today. I knew it was unlikely for now, but I feel like equipping the M1 for ipad and not utilizing it to it's full potential with MacOS was a massive letdown for me. I wan't to be able to run my desktop apps and dual boot MacOS and Windows 10 in a Surface form factor and an ipad with MacOS would accomplish just that.

It's something I really want, and I hope it happens soon.
 

jcshas

macrumors 65816
Oct 8, 2003
1,053
1,339
For Apple, I think it’s less about convergence of the iPad and Mac, and more about how the M1 Macbook and new iPad Pro complement each other. There are certain tasks that one perform better than the other.
 

Stridr69

macrumors 6502
May 8, 2012
271
315
Talk all you want about M1, M1x, A14 . . . Until iPadOS improves, to allow me to begin and finish projects on an iPad without having to discover yet more workarounds (!!) or having to use my MBP, I won’t sink a dime into a new iPad. I’ll stick with my old iPad Pro 2017.

It’s not iPad that’s limiting, it’s iPadOS!!
Because iPad is just....an iPad. Dreams of it being a full fledged iMac is just that. It can NEVER handle the requirement of a laptop. And Apple WILL keep it that way!
 
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KPOM

macrumors P6
Oct 23, 2010
18,311
8,326
For Apple, I think it’s less about convergence of the iPad and Mac, and more about how the M1 Macbook and new iPad Pro complement each other. There are certain tasks that one perform better than the other.
Apple always denies they are doing something until they just do it. For now, with Mac sales booming, it still makes sense for the iPad to be a separate product. But there is no longer a technological reason why they can't release an iPad Pro that runs macOS apps. If the market moves in that direction, Apple can basically turn on a dime and release an integrated product. Perhaps they are waiting for more apps to make the transition from iPadOS to Mac.
 
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snow755

macrumors 68000
Sep 12, 2012
1,884
844
I'm extremely disappointed they didn't announce an ipad that runs MacOS today. I knew it was unlikely for now, but I feel like equipping the M1 for ipad and not utilizing it to it's full potential with MacOS was a massive letdown for me. I wan't to be able to run my desktop apps and dual boot MacOS and Windows 10 in a Surface form factor and an ipad with MacOS would accomplish just that.

It's something I really want, and I hope it happens soon.

that is never going too happen if apple was going too put MacOS on a iPad they would have done so buy now trust me when I say this that will never happen in are life time
 
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